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College Student - Question about Tiffany''s versus others

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upenn_wyoming

Rough_Rock
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May 7, 2003
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4
You guys on this forum are great, a whole bunch of opinions, and a lot of knowledgeable people. I''m a college student who is planning on proposing to my girlfriend this summer. I''ve done what I consider a fair amount of research on the web about diamond types, prices, grades and anything else. I am looking to buy a pretty small diamond, (between .3-.6 carats probably) and the my personal rankings (or tastes rather) for the C''s is this order: Cut, Color, Clarity, Carat; in otherwords, size isn''t really important. I''m looking at spending between 1,500 and 2,500 dollars. I haven''t been into Tiffany''s yet, and I haven''t done a lot of real, in-the-store ring shopping. Those of you familiar with Tiffany''s and some of the online sites, what kind of price markup am I looking at to get the blue box? I am not going to be spending the kind of money that Tiffany is used to, and so I''m a little afraid that if I go in there, they won''t give me the information I want. If that ends up being the case, then I''ll take my business elsewhere, I''m just sort of curious what the price comparisons are between Tiffany''s and other brands. Also, for those of you who have Tiffany diamonds (or those that don''t) are there certain intangibles to having a Tiffany? Do they clean it for free, do they try to help you whenever you have a problem with your diamond or want to have something changed on it? thanks for any help.
 

tiggerlgh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
23
Hi I am no expert on Tiffany's but I do know that they have a large mark-up and for your price range I would definitely look into some of the people here on PS they will get you a well cut diamond for a lot cheaper. As for cleaning I am sure that they will clean it for free, however everywhere I have been has cleaned it for free. My Fi got my e-ring at a small jewler in his hometown about 3 hours away but I get my ring cleaned almost everytime I go to the mall. Any of the stores will do it. Hope this helps a little.
 

tiggerlgh

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
23
Sorry I also forgot to mention that there has been a lot of discussions on here recently about Tiffany's so if you want an idea on their mark-up and such you can do a search for "Tiffany's" and you will find the posts.
 

upenn_wyoming

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 7, 2003
Messages
4
Thank you for the info. I've searched the board, but it seems that most people are in price ranges WAY above me (maybe a few years down the road after my education starts returning dividends) and I wanted to see if anyone had a good handle on the price increases for smaller diamonds. Thanks again though.


-Ryan
 

AnnaMagdalena

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
70
We had a similar budget and looked at Tiffany's one day. My memory is that I tried on a .75 solitaire set in yellow gold and it cost about $6500. That's approximate, I don't remember the details perfectly and I realize the clarity and color grading was probably higher than what we ended up getting. Anyway, we ended up paying 1/3 the price for a gorgeous .84 from Superbcert.(www.superbcert.com) I just searched there: found a .68 H VS1 with a yummy 5.7 mm spread--you could really blow your girlfriend away with that, and have a couple hundred left for a classic solitaire setting. If you're willing to go a little lower on color to J (Barry's J's face up white) there's a J VS1 .72 and even a J VS1 .8--I couldn't tell from your post whether you would consider a larger stone in your price range, or your girlfriend simply prefers smaller stones.

Other options: I just did a search in the "search by cut quality" part of this site, and a lot of stones from Whiteflash and Nice Ice come up within your price range. Those are worth looking into; the pictures and testimonials posted by customers of those vendors look good.

Let us know what you decide--good luck!
-Anna Magdalena
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
Wow, 0.85ct for $2167? I'm also looking for around 0.8ct and the lowest price I can find on superbcert is a 0.82 I/VS2 for $2821.
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
Ryan,
Check this one out.

Item 1684 0.48 ct, F/IF SuperbCert for $2362.56

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=476&Product_Subcategory_ID=1&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1

Good to find another person who values quality over quantity
haha

Or you go large and get this:

Item 1679 0.84 ct. J/SI2 Superbcert for $2096,64.

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=389&Product_Subcategory_ID=2&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1

This would be great question to ask the ladies here since your budget is relatively small.

So, for around $2500, which one of these 2 diamonds do the ladies prefer to receive?

0.48 F/IF
0.84 J/SI2

Both Superbcert.
 

AnnaMagdalena

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
70
Liz--
hee hee I'm wearing it.

My fiance bought the J SI2 .84 about a month and a half ago. Item # 1679 still comes up in the search; perhaps there's a stone with the exact spec's of mine, so it now has the same item #? To view pix, see my thread entitled "my superbcert e-ring" under the "Show Me the Ring" forum.

-Anna Magdalena
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 5/7/2003 12:23:38 PM upenn_wyoming wrote:

You guys on this forum are great, a whole bunch of opinions, and a lot of knowledgeable people. I'm a college student who is planning on proposing to my girlfriend this summer. I've done what I consider a fair amount of research on the web about diamond types, prices, grades and anything else. I am looking to buy a pretty small diamond, (between .3-.6 carats probably) and the my personal rankings (or tastes rather) for the C's is this order: Cut, Color, Clarity, Carat; in otherwords, size isn't really important. I'm looking at spending between 1,500 and 2,500 dollars. I haven't been into Tiffany's
The key is to balance Cut, Color & Clarity to determine carat weight. You know your budget - juggle the parameters & see what your options are. And more importantly - what does *she* think about size. Do you think she would prefer a smaller F/VS stone, a larger H/SI stone or even larger J/SI stone? Women vary on what is there limit to quality. Most women want a "pretty" sizable stone. Men tend to focus on the paper specs.

I think you are on the right track to focus on cut. The beauty of a stone is in the cut & a well cut stone masks a lot of flaws.

Good luck!
 

Love Street

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
418
----------------
On 5/7/2003 12:23:38 PM upenn_wyoming wrote:

Also, for those of you who have Tiffany diamonds (or those that don't) are there certain intangibles to having a Tiffany? Do they clean it for free, do they try to help you whenever you have a problem with your diamond or want to have something changed on it? thanks for any help.
----------------
Hi there! Congrats on your future engagement

I got my ring at Tiffany's last Friday, and I LOVE it. I chose Tiffany's after much research because I'm a sentimental nostalgic person - I love their history and their designs. Also the service was phenomenal: even when I walked in there for the first time barely knowing anything about the 4 C's they weren't condescending. They have people who take their rings their every week for free cleaning (that will be me in the future).
The workmanship is beautiful, and the diamond throws rainbows like crazy.

Having said that, I would not want to compromise too much on size just to have a ring from T & Co. If I had been unable to get a size I was happy with at T & Co, I would have happily bought online. Size is only UNimportant to a point - between having to get a tiny diamond "chip" from Tiffany's and getting a .7 or .8 stone online, I would *definitely* buy online!

You can always get your wedding band from Tiffany's a little later if she would really be thrilled by the little blue box (or the Audrey Hepburn and Marilyn movies, which is what thrilled me). Good luck with whatever you do!
 

Love Street

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
418
----------------
So, for around $2500, which one of these 2 diamonds do the ladies prefer to receive?

0.48 F/IF
0.84 J/SI2

Both Superbcert.
----------------

DEFINITELY the 0.84 J/SI2

I love polls
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Don't wanna buck the trend but I'd want neither. I'd want a .80 I colored SI stone. For whatever reason, I am not a huge fan of J.


But if I only had two stones to choose from in the whole wide world, definitely the J SI stone as long as the SI was eye-clean. Size does matter...your diamond doesn't get bigger...only smaller as time passes. Hee.


BTW upenn, don't let Jlim, our current D/IF enthusiast, sway you...you don't need IF to have a great quality stone. I dare you to go into a jewelry store and ask to see their VVS vs VS vs SI stones. If its a good SI1 stone you will not see a thing with your naked eye. SI is the perfect thing for small budgets. If ctw is not that much of a priority, then focus on a better color and stick with a VS2 stone. I don't believe in paying for things you cannot SEE. You can't see clarity past a certain point, you can't see a brand name...you can see ctw and you can see color.

Lastly, there never has really been a conclusion on the whole Tiffanys markup thing, but I'll estimate that it's around 25-30%. If you have not yet gone into Tiffany, I would highly suggest it, seeing with your own two eyes will lead you to a conclusion faster than hearing all of us describe what we think online. You may really love the look of a Tiffany stone, and be sold..regardless of the size and markup etc. Or if not you then can shop online and use the Tiffany stone as a comparison to see what else is available.

Good luck!!
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
As much as I'd love the idea of having an IF stone, the size difference is too great. Gotta go with the .84.
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
----------------
On 5/7/2003 7
1:27 PM Mara wrote:

BTW upenn, don't let Jlim, our current D/IF enthusiast, sway you...you don't need IF to have a great quality stone.

Lastly, there never has really been a conclusion on the whole Tiffanys markup thing, but I'll estimate that it's around 25-30%.
----------------
Mara Mara Mara - I don't have to sway him. His first post says

Cut, Color, Clarity, Carat; in otherwords, size isn't really important.
In that order, he'll choose the .48 F/IF. One thing I find strange is women will choose the .84 whereas the men who buys them for women often choose .48. What does this tells you? Men value quality over quantity. I think when we choose a mate, we usually choose those who have inner beauties. One who doesn't nag us all the time just coz' we sit around watching tv
Women on the other hand, well we know from this poll, they choose the .84 J/SI2 stone. I really don't know why. Maybe it is a male/female thing. Maybe a American/Rest of the world thing.

F -> G, H, I -> J
IF -> VVS1, VVS2, VS1, VS2, SI1 -> SI2

So many steps down but you would still choose it over a .48 (for a .84)

I guess if I post another poll:

F/IF 1.28 vs J/SI2 1.82

Which one do you choose?

If more chooses 1.28 then my theory is this. Most women on this board think that 0.48 is tiiiiiiinnnny. But once it exceeds a certain size, then they'll value quality over quantity since 1.28 is *big* enough and the 1.82 might show the flaw more since it a bigger stone.

I hate to say this, but this sure sounds superficial to me.

A phycologist can probably win a nobel price figuring out the buying habits of women on this board.

Oh yeah, a buddy of mine is also looking for an e-ring. So, we share our *adventures*. While talking to him the day before, he said he was in a mall, ok, MAUL, store and the lady who was showing him a few rings said "If I was a woman getting an e-ring, I wouldn't accept anything less than a carat". Like me, he also values quality over quantity (yes, he's Asian descent too) and had asked for smaller, ok, tinnnnnyyyy stones < 0.5ct. Anyway, he told me that he felt like telling the lady, "Well, you won't be the woman I'm giving the diamond too if you DEMAND more than 1ct".

Women, can't live w/o them, can't shoot them either :razz:
Ok, bad joke. But fire&ice said the same thing (IIRC) on another thread except it was "Men, can't live with them, can't shoot them either".

At least I know we men cannot live without women
 

Iceman

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2000
Messages
1,374
First of all "The Blue Box" thing . Its not like the polo shirts I wear to show off to everybody I paid too much for the shirt.
What Im trying to say is she can not carry around the blue box and brag about it. That's everybody's preference on how
smart or stupid one perceives a purchase , its your money.

But sitting here and trying to formulate the right answer for you only lays in your thoughts not ours. But if you want my opinion
,

She will think your a better catch by getting her a higher quality and bigger diamond and be more fugal with your money.

If she is the kind that demands the blue box, your in for a rough ride trying to keep her happy, I know , Ive been married to one
of those for 23 years


Save that blue box thing down the road when you have the extra money to blow. Kind of like me taken my new H2 ($53,000)
with some of my friends down into these back woods last month.

Hope this helps , great post.

mudline.jpg
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Jlim still doesn't get it. The Asian heritage values perfection. A smaller "perfect" diamond is right for those folks. Other cultures have similar priorities. Some cultures value rubies more highly than diamonds. For others, it's emeralds, or sapphires.

Upenn said Cut, Color, Clarity, Carat as his priorities. That doesn't mean he'd go with the .48 carat F/IF Jlim mentioned. I think the diamond I recently purchased fits his criteria. A Cut Above from White Flash (CUT), H (COLOR,near colorless), 100% eyeclean SI1 (CLARITY), .766 carat (CARAT).

I have personally seen a great cut J COLOR diamond AGAINST white gold. White Flash sent me the H I bought, and a .85 carat J, VS2 to preview. Face up, there was only the faintest "body" difference between the H and the J. Were I a clarity freak, I'd have gone with the J in a heartbeat. That choice would shuffle Upenn's priorities around to Cut, Clarity/Carat, Color.

While Jlim has posted much here, he never has said if he has actually gone out and looked at diamonds. He's related stories of other peoples shopping tales. He's asked folks in this forum to report back to him about their experiences. But, he has never said, "I was at the Maul/a local B&M over the weekend and I saw...."

Upenn~
I would suggest you get out and look locally. Go to a good B&M diamond broker. Look at sizes, colors, clarities, cuts, ask them their prices. That way when you net shop, you are comparing apples and apples. You can get a great CUT diamond that is 100% eye clean in SI clarity. If you go with a White Flash A Cut Above, Superb Cert, Good Old Gold, Nice Ice or other TRUE H&A, you can drop the color rating down to J easily. In a great CUT, COLOR and CLARITY will get you a larger size/carat weight diamond. Since you are working on a limited budget now and looking at a possible future upgrade, I'd strongly consider going with a company that offers lifetime upgrade at full purchase price. Less money to pay later for the larger diamond, it you can pry this one off her finger! LOL

Oh, and Jlim is not correct. All women aren't into carat size. I don't have to have 1+ carat. I've looked at my .766 carat over a band on my finger and think it looks great! Nice ring size statement. Not too large, not too small. Just right. But, then again, my .766 carat ACA has the proportions of a Maul store 1 carat. I am 5' 9", with long hands and fingers, ring size 6.

With diamonds, you already know nice begins with CUT. The better the CUT, the larger the look and the brighter the color. And, smaller does not reflect lack of love on your part. While the e-ring is dominated by emotion, it's paid for with hard earned cash. You buy as nice as you can for what you can afford to pay.

Congrats to you and your intended. Enjoy the ring buying process. Have fun with it! Don't get all bogged down in size and clarity and color. Stick with CUT and the rest will fall into place. May you have a long, happy, healthy life together.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Wanna talk BIG??!! I WANT Iceman's HUMMER!!!
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Iceman, the only difference between men & boys are the price of their toys. And....he who dies with the most toys wins. I am fortunate that my hubby's toys are somewhat inexpensive. He *will* die with the most architortural scales. We have a sideboard full & I joke we had to buy a second home for his scales.

There is no reason to hire a pyschologist. Women tend to not pyscho-analize things we wear. Women are natural shoppers. Most of us have an innate sense of what we want. We are natural "balancer's" While there may be women who want a tiny D/IF & women who want a huge L/I3, most fall squarely in the middle. We want a sizable stone that is *pretty*. Men tend to get really hung up on the specs. While one should always correctly pay for the *specs* specified, the specs do not guarantee a pretty stone. For my anniversary ring, I never would have even considered an I/SI. It was on the recommendation of my jeweler that I consider it. It was not only the least expensive stone I viewed - it was the prettiest.

All that said, PQ is right - cut is king w/ a RB. My caveat is that you may not have to purchase a branded super ideal. Get a stone w/ a good make (also pay attention to mm measurements). Many moons ago, we looked at Lazaare Kaplan (sp?) stones. I realized then that cut was king. Back then, not as much emphasis was put into cut. My then "to be" could afford a .50 Kaplan stone. My jeweler found us a stone w/ a great make & we were able to go to an "unbranded" .70. Although, shopping over the net would lend itself to perhaps go the branded route.

I have 20 years of experience shopping for diamonds. I own a total of over 15 carats. I have put my money where my mouth is on numerous occassions. I am not an expert nor will I ever claim to be......just an experienced shopper.

I am aware that Asian culture values quality over size in diamonds. Engagement rings are a more recent custom. This phenom is nothing more than what' in & what's marketed. This notion that all American's value size over quality in everything is insulting. I try to find a balance of both as I would assume many American do.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
Jlim, it confounds me why I'm continuing this conversation, so I'm not even going to bother addressing some of your more outrageous points, but here it goes:

Yes, I *would* choose the 1.28, but not because the 1.82 would show flaws--basically because a 1.82 is way too big for me as the .48 is too teeny if we could afford something larger without compromising quality. As Mara said, we women don't value carat size over all else (though I realize that oversimplification makes it easier for you to argue with us), what we want is a good balance of all factors involved. We bargain shop, we buy the best we can when it's on sale, and yes, sometimes we splurge. I wouldn't choose a teeny diamond over a larger one anymore than I'd choose an exquisitely-made designer t-shirt over a well-made outfit at the same price.

I also know you keep harping on the "Asian" thing and have totally dismissed my statements about the preferences of my Asian (albeit mostly Asian-American, though not all) female friends and my very Asian female relatives. I suspect, as you put it, it's a female vs. a male thing. (Come to think of it, I also think it's much more of a Japanese thing than other Asian cultures. I know you're not Japanese, but perhaps you think they have a higher culture than you do?)

I'd also like you to consider that the women on this board have been studying diamonds for years. None of us would choose a badly-cut, cloudy 1.5 carat over an ideal cut .5. At least, I know I wouldn't. Citing anecdotes from your friends is basically like taking the opinion of someone who's just started researching cars over someone who has been immersed into the car culture for years. Would it hurt you so much to be a little open?
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
----------------
On 5/8/2003 10:32:18 AM Hest88 wrote:

Yes, I *would* choose the 1.28, but not because the 1.82 would show flaws--basically because a 1.82 is way too big for me as the .48 is too teeny if we could afford something larger without compromising quality. As Mara said, we women don't value carat size over all else (though I ----------------
You know what kills me? Those of you who have the mindset that what you see as ideal for you is ideal for everyone else and you want to force your mindset on those who do not see things your way. It is as if it is your mission in life to convert those who do not see things your way in order to validate the choices you made.

Have you seen in any one of my post that I tell you to abandon your ct. over clarity/color choices? But I sure see plenty whereby you tell me what to do.

upenn_wyoming said it himself. He values Cut, Color, Clarity, Carat. But what do I see next. One of you said he should bump up the carat in his priority list.

Do you see me or others who value quality over quantity telling you what you should do??

Why do you have to validate your own choices by making others follow you?

What makes a 1.28 ct. the perfect size but 1.82 way too big?? What makes that right when 2 weeks ago, I said 0.5 ct is the perfect size for me but 0.8ct is too big? Why is it my definition of ideal just because it differs from yours make mine less important??

I would love to know but I've come to a point that I do not care anymore what anyone of you have to say about the 4c.

My advice if you care to listen upenn_wyoming. Stick to what you believe. If you think 0.5ct is ideal for your gf. Stick with it. Don't let these people tell you otherwise and make you get a larger diamond with lesser qualities than you can accept.

Good luck in your search.
 

Hongerhond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
51
"Women on the other hand, well we know from this poll, they choose the .84 J/SI2 stone. I really don't know why. Maybe it is a male/female thing. Maybe a American/Rest of the world thing."

Nope, it's not an "American/Rest of the world thing" - I'm South African and I wholeheartedly agree with these ladies!
 

liz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
100
If price were the same, I'd also go with the 1.28. Jlim is right, once you get past a certain size (let's say 1 carat), the other c's become more important. And yes, .48 is small. And no, I don't have a big rock. Similar to PQ, I have a .85 I SI1, and it's just right. And yes, women can be headaches. Here's one gal who prefers to play with the boys.
 

*Monique

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 10, 2003
Messages
22
"upenn_wyoming said it himself. He values Cut, Color, Clarity, Carat. But what do I see next. One of you said he should bump up the carat in his priority list."

The reason being we are very sure his fiancee would more than likely prefer a larger size, without sacrificing quality or blowing his budget.

"What makes a 1.28 ct. the perfect size but 1.82 way too big?? What makes that right when 2 weeks ago, I said 0.5 ct is the perfect size for me but 0.8ct is too big? Why is it my definition of ideal just because it differs from yours make mine less important??"

Recently, you posted you wanted a 0.50 ct size for your future fiance because of her small hands and petite frame. Then, you posted that you are considering purchasing her a 0.80 ct size due to superstition?

Is it superstition or following the advice of others? Or, is it the possibility she would be disappointed with a too small carat weight?

It's a fact, logical or not, like it or not, the vast majority of women are more than willing to give up quality for size.
 

AnnaMagdalena

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2003
Messages
70
I am, despite my blond avatar, Asian, and I must disagree with jlim's gross generalizations.

I realize most people here disagree with him anyway, but I'll give a second Asian perspective. I find it WAY out of line to be calling people's choices superficial here! With that mindset, it is easier to call his F/IF choice superficial because you can't see the difference in clarity with your naked eye anyway.

To me, buying something with a great cut = quality. My JSI2 sparkles way more than anything I've ever seen my friends and family buy. So it's not a size OR quality issue.

While jlim accuses people of forcing their ideals on others, he himself labels opinions that differ from his as "superficial." hmmm

This Asian likes sparkle and spread.
-Anna Magdalena
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
----------------
On 5/8/2003 12:19:15 PM *Monique wrote:

The reason being we are very sure his fiancee would more than likely prefer a larger size, without sacrificing quality or blowing his budget.

It's a fact, logical or not, like it or not, the vast majority of women are more than willing to give up quality for size.

----------------
Monique - It is true I'll never know till I actually propose and since I am upping my criteria to a 0.8, I'll probably never know it. I'm sure if I ask her after the fact, she'll say she'll love whatever I give her.

I just don't know why women on this board seem to know our gfs. more than we do when they have no idea who is it we are dating. But it is possible you are right. Maybe my gf would like a larger stone as well. But since this is going to be a surprise, I can't very well ask her and I just have to go with what I think it is she wants.

Man are indeed from Mars and Woman are from Venus.

Actually, the reason why I went higher is not because of the influence of the opinions I obtained here. I set out to spend $4500 (less if possible) for the diamond and ring and I thought the max I can get is around 0.5ct for a D/E IF/VVS1. But it turns out the diamonds are not too expensive. I was settled on getting the 0.58ct E/IF and even with a Vatche setting (the x-prong), I'm not breaking $4500. But then, the .58 didn't sound so good. So, I wanted something with an 8 but still not break $4500. So, I set my search criteria to .8 D/E/F IF/VVS1 and found only 1. But soon after I got 2 more for a total of 3 in the E/F/G and VVS1. But the only problem is I'm breaking my self-imposed limit of $4500. I'm breaking $4500 with the setting.

Could I get a 1 ct. if I expanded my search to an H/I color VVS2/VS1 criteria, maybe. But I didn't do that coz' I wanted .8
 
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