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CLOUDS and DIAMOND PERFORMANCE

T

Trica

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
14
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this site and fairly new to diamonds. As most of the people here, I am looking for an engagement ring.

As everyone I am trying to maximize the size of the diamond maintaining 3 EXs and acceptable level of clarity and color. Based on my budget I am looking for a 1ct, H, SI1-SI2, 3 EX diamond.

When I finally thought to be at the end of my research I encountered this website. :shock:

The diamonds I am considering is the following:
1_222.jpg
diamond_6.png

I have already read many posts regarding CLOUDS and the comments in the reports. However I am still not able to understand if a cloud is effecting the performance (light reflection, brilliance, etc...).

I believe imperfections such clouds have an advantage with respect to crystals, feathers, carbons, etc... because they are less visible at the naked eye, however I wouldn't like to end up with a "cloudy" and "milky" diamond.

Based on the example posted here, what would you experts recommend? Is this diamond too "cloudy"? Will these clouds effect its performance?

Thank you for your support.
 
I'm sure others with more knowledge will have better answers, but can the place that is selling the diamond look at it and give you a report?
 
Trica|1394704981|3633179 said:
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this site and fairly new to diamonds. As most of the people here, I am looking for an engagement ring.

As everyone I am trying to maximize the size of the diamond maintaining 3 EXs and acceptable level of clarity and color. Based on my budget I am looking for a 1ct, H, SI1-SI2, 3 EX diamond.

When I finally thought to be at the end of my research I encountered this website. :shock:

The diamonds I am considering is the following:
1_222.jpg
diamond_6.png

I have already read many posts regarding CLOUDS and the comments in the reports. However I am still not able to understand if a cloud is effecting the performance (light reflection, brilliance, etc...).

I believe imperfections such clouds have an advantage with respect to crystals, feathers, carbons, etc... because they are less visible at the naked eye, however I wouldn't like to end up with a "cloudy" and "milky" diamond.

Based on the example posted here, what would you experts recommend? Is this diamond too "cloudy"? Will these clouds effect its performance?

Thank you for your support.
Click to expand...


I see there are also crystals and other inclusions on the side of the stone, which makes me believe the clouds under the table should be acceptable to the naked eye. Acceptable as in it does not make the stone look hazy/cloudy/milky. But this is just an educated guess. Like you already mentioned, I have seen but not often, diamonds with severe clouds that make the diamond look milky (GIA SI clarity).

Maybe compare this image with another diamond with the same specs but with better clarity (vs1 or above). See if you can see a difference where the clouds are. Or post some alternatives for us to compare.

My personal opinion, sometimes it's better to have one or two crystal/feather inclusions, preferably on the side (even a black crystal) than many many slight inclusions scattered everywhere. It really depends on the diamond.

PS. Anyone know if the medium yellow will have a negative affect on the appearance of the stone?
 
Thats an absolute disaster stone !
First off the diamond is clearly milky/cloudy from the picture.
The cut isnt good.
And lastly the florescence is Yellow and not blue.

Who ever said you have to have triple Ex , getting the proportion or cut grade is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing clouds are also as definite no no avoid them like the plague in SI goods .

Its lucky you found this site :tongue: otherwise you would have been stuck with a reject
 
We recently purchased a diamond and we went to David Wolf for the appraisal. Mine had medium blue florescence. He said it's actually helping my H stone look like a G stone. I asked him about the milky/ hazy side effect and he said that only happens sometimes to stones with strong to very strong florescence but that other colors of florescence like yellow were "the kiss of death".
 
It scores a 3.2 on the HCA - reject. Plus with the clouds and the yellow fluor... I'd be hesitant.
 
Cut is not good, plus yellow fluor. Find something else.
 
Trica|1394704981|3633179 said:
As everyone I am trying to maximize the size of the diamond maintaining 3 EXs and acceptable level of clarity and color. Based on my budget I am looking for a 1ct, H, SI1-SI2, 3 EX diamond.
Click to expand...

Hi Trica,

Why concentrate on a triple X if the clouds will disturb the LP triple X are sought after for?
 
---------- HERE AN UPDATE --------------

I asked a gemologist at the seller to inspect the diamond for me and give me his opinion on the stone. Here is his answer:

“The clouds are not offensive, but they do give the diamond a very slight haze. It has a very low impact, so it's likely you'll have to be looking at the diamond pretty closely to notice it. The diamond is very bright and white in color.”

@treasurehunter
Saying that the diamond is an absolute disaster from a picture sounds like a strong statement, but you definitely have more experience than me if you feel like express this judgment.
Why the cut isn’t good? As you mentioned the cut grade is the most important thing and this one is EXELLENT rated from GIA. :confused:

@ecf8503
Where can I see that it scores 3.2 on the HCA?? And more important what is HCA? :read:

@DiaGem
What do you mean for LP triple X? :saint:

Last three, but not definitely least, questions for all the experts joining this 3d.
What would be the effect of yellow fluorescence on the clouds?
Why is having yellow fluorescence worse than having blue fluorescence?
Isn’t fluorescence only visible under UV light?

Thanks again

PS: I am definitely more confused than before. I noticed the cloudy look of the stone but given the size and other characteristics I thought it was a good stone. :oops:
 
Yellow fluor? I would pass on that alone.
 
thanks ecf8503! :twirl:
 
GIA EXCELLENT isn't as excellent as you think it is. Yes, it is their best grade, so it's not a total disaster, but you can have diamonds that barely make the cut (no pun intended), and ones that are really at the center range of ideal proportions for best light return,fire, and performance. Imagine that the GIA is a college class, where 50% get As, 20% get Bs, 15% get Cs, 10% get Ds, and 5% get Fs. Now say that an A is a GIA "Excellent." I personally am not satisfied, nor are alot of PSers, knowing that my diamond is just in the top 40-50% of cut quality (this might be exaggerated, but most people say GIA excellent covers about 40% or more). But this GIA "excellent" is a term salespeople and gemologists use to make people think that because the rating is "excellent" that they are getting an excellent stone. All it is is just naming their grades. In reality a GIA "Good" is pretty darn bad, and "Fair" is crap. So really the grading system as it is now should be "Good" "Fair" "Poor" and "Carbon crap." Until they change the system going with a diamond with an AGS0 or GIA with ideal angles and table/depth is your safest bet.
 
Roqsteady|1394736758|3633406 said:
GIA EXCELLENT isn't as excellent as you think it is. Yes, it is their best grade, so it's not a total disaster, but you can have diamonds that barely make the cut (no pun intended), and ones that are really at the center range of ideal proportions for best light return,fire, and performance.
Click to expand...
Until they change the system going with a diamond with an AGS0 or GIA with ideal angles and table/depth is your safest bet.
Click to expand...

Thank you Roqsteady.
So, where can °I find or what are the ideal proportions of a diamond that best returns light and has good performance?

Can anyone answer these questions?

What is LP triple X?
What would be the effect of yellow fluorescence on the clouds?
Why is having yellow fluorescence worse than having blue fluorescence?
Isn’t fluorescence only visible under UV light?

Thank you for your help
 
Daylight has some florescent light in it so it affects the diamond

Ideal proportions are
34-35 crown angle
40.6-41.0 pavilion angle
60 - 61.5 total depth
table 54-58

sometimes a stone can be a bit outside those angles and still make it as its the way the angles combine together.

Clouds are not affected by flor as far as I'm concerned but clouds should be avoided in SI stones.
Yellow flor makes the stone yellower and blue makes it whiter as blue cancels out yellow spectrum and makes it look icy blue.
Yellow flor is usually associated with milky florescence .
Symmetry and polish should be minimum Very good .
 
Thank you very much for your help! :appl:

I will reject this stone and continue my hunt. :read:

I learned so much from all of you already.

I will post other possible diamonds and ask for your opinion shortly. Thanks again!
 
Trica|1394729849|3633337 said:
@DiaGem
What do you mean for LP triple X? :saint:
Click to expand...

Sorry, LP = light performance.
GIA triple X (e.g. Excelent cut, symmetry & polish) are cut to these proportions in order to display high LR (light return).
If you choose a milky/cloudy Diamond with these cut results would seem to me as beating the purpose.
Yellow fluo translates to some sort of cloudy appearance depending on the quantity of the yellow fluo + they might appear yellower on colorless material. In Fancy Yellow Diamonds..., certain quantities of yellow fluo will positively effect the yellow appearance.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Diagem , how is LP affected by symmetry apart from optical pattern .
 
treasurehunter|1394789658|3633875 said:
Thanks Diagem , how is LP affected by symmetry apart from optical pattern .
Click to expand...
Off symmetry will affect optical pattern and it's light performance in some ways, off symmetry in three dimensional cut precision will affect light performance in a greater way. There is a reason to cut Diamonds to high 3D cut precision other than just add a nice name to it.

Remember, we are talking about light performance and not beauty!!
3D cut precision is a complicated process to achieve, but when you do you can definitely notice a difference.
 
treasurehunter|1394710316|3633193 said:
Thats an absolute disaster stone !
First off the diamond is clearly milky/cloudy from the picture.
The cut isnt good.
And lastly the florescence is Yellow and not blue.
Its lucky you found this site :tongue: otherwise you would have been stuck with a reject
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this.
 
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