Cloth Diapers?

[pancake]

Thank you PG - you are lovely!

It is probably a good idea for me to wait until Dot arrives so that I can figure out which diapers I actually want to buy more of, but I am definitely filing your offer away for future reference (although once your bubby #2 arrives I think you will have far better things to do with your time!).

In terms of detergents, I am using one here called Eco Store - which is one of these eco-friendly enzyme-free yada yada powdered front-loader detergents. Apparently ingredients very similar to Rockin Green, although I haven't checked. I am interested to see that lots of people use Oxiclean even though all the diaper companies say not to; we have something similar here called Napisan and I was thinking that I would use that on soiled inserts but am worried that it will cause PUL to delaminate on the covers. How long do you soak for?

 

[phoenixgirl]

Good point Pancake, my offer may not stand once #2 arrives!

I've never had problems with stinkies on my diapers except for when I washed them in my mom's ancient top-loader with a scented detergent, but I have had them repel (build-up). I had the occasional stain on an insert but they always faded or came out completely. Nevertheless, I decided to give Tide (regular strong detergent) a try, and it's worked great. Before that I was using Rockin' Green. IIRC, all my delamination issues happened before the switch, so I don't think there's any correlation. I'm also using Calgon, a water softener (I get orange rusty stains on the shower curtain and in the toilet so I've definitely got hard water). Anyway, now I never ever have stains. Same thing with DH's collar ring -- bye bye collar ring. Also, I think I've had less repelling but it's definitely happened once or twice on the Tide (I think that was before I used Calgon though).

Oh, and also I've used bleach a couple of times. I used it after the stinkies at my mom's, and when it didn't seem to hurt the diapers, I've done it once or twice more.

All this is to say that I don't really know. I think regular detergent works better. Your cloth diapers won't last forever, but you don't want them to be gross in the mean time. I'd sacrifice a little of their longevity to do away with stains and stinks. FWIW, I did my best to read up on the ingredients in Tide Ultra and figure out if it's terrible for the environment, and while the answer wasn't clear (no site talking about environmental friendliness was like, oh, sure, it's totally fine), I also couldn't find anything that said why it was super terrible. They reformulated it partly to address environmental concerns, so that gives me some reassurance.

You know what, I did use Oxyclean a few times back in the Rockin Green stain days. I didn't notice that it really helped. And sunning them would fade the stains but not eliminate them completely. I remember having to flip the inserts in the sun to try to get the stains out on both sides. I haven't had a single stain with Tide. Now the thought of stains is pretty gross since I know that there is something out there capable of getting them out.

Not trying to sway anyway . . . I know a lot of us got into CDing because we care about being environmentally friendly, and I don't have much of an informed answer about that part of using "regular" detergent. But my diapers are definitely cleaner now.

 

[yellowducky]

Thank you PG - you are lovely!

It is probably a good idea for me to wait until Dot arrives so that I can figure out which diapers I actually want to buy more of, but I am definitely filing your offer away for future reference (although once your bubby #2 arrives I think you will have far better things to do with your time!).

In terms of detergents, I am using one here called Eco Store - which is one of these eco-friendly enzyme-free yada yada powdered front-loader detergents. Apparently ingredients very similar to Rockin Green, although I haven't checked. I am interested to see that lots of people use Oxiclean even though all the diaper companies say not to; we have something similar here called Napisan and I was thinking that I would use that on soiled inserts but am worried that it will cause PUL to delaminate on the covers. How long do you soak for?

I thought the baby version of oxiclean was okay to use with CDs? Or does that prohibition apply to all types of oxygen bleaches?

 

[yellowducky]

Good point Pancake, my offer may not stand once #2 arrives!

I've never had problems with stinkies on my diapers except for when I washed them in my mom's ancient top-loader with a scented detergent, but I have had them repel (build-up). I had the occasional stain on an insert but they always faded or came out completely. Nevertheless, I decided to give Tide (regular strong detergent) a try, and it's worked great. Before that I was using Rockin' Green. IIRC, all my delamination issues happened before the switch, so I don't think there's any correlation. I'm also using Calgon, a water softener (I get orange rusty stains on the shower curtain and in the toilet so I've definitely got hard water). Anyway, now I never ever have stains. Same thing with DH's collar ring -- bye bye collar ring. Also, I think I've had less repelling but it's definitely happened once or twice on the Tide (I think that was before I used Calgon though).

Oh, and also I've used bleach a couple of times. I used it after the stinkies at my mom's, and when it didn't seem to hurt the diapers, I've done it once or twice more.

All this is to say that I don't really know. I think regular detergent works better. Your cloth diapers won't last forever, but you don't want them to be gross in the mean time. I'd sacrifice a little of their longevity to do away with stains and stinks. FWIW, I did my best to read up on the ingredients in Tide Ultra and figure out if it's terrible for the environment, and while the answer wasn't clear (no site talking about environmental friendliness was like, oh, sure, it's totally fine), I also couldn't find anything that said why it was super terrible. They reformulated it partly to address environmental concerns, so that gives me some reassurance.

You know what, I did use Oxyclean a few times back in the Rockin Green stain days. I didn't notice that it really helped. And sunning them would fade the stains but not eliminate them completely. I remember having to flip the inserts in the sun to try to get the stains out on both sides. I haven't had a single stain with Tide. Now the thought of stains is pretty gross since I know that there is something out there capable of getting them out.

---
Sorry for the awkwardly positioned comment/reply; I'm posting from my phone.

I'm not sure when Tide was reformulated but a lab test (perhaps several tests -- it's been a while since I read up on this, so my memory is faltering) found relatively high levels of 1-,4-dioxane in both Tide and Tide Free.

Not trying to sway anyway . . . I know a lot of us got into CDing because we care about being environmentally friendly, and I don't have much of an informed answer about that part of using "regular" detergent. But my diapers are definitely cleaner now.

 

[pancake]

I am looking on a few UK-based CD forums now as they have Napisan over there and quite a few of them are using it to soak out just soiled or greying inserts and nappies. I think I'll have some on hand just in case - I don't see any reason to routinely soak but if they're stained I think it'd be ok - won't be with every wash!

 

[Loves Vintage]

Good point Pancake, my offer may not stand once #2 arrives!

I've never had problems with stinkies on my diapers except for when I washed them in my mom's ancient top-loader with a scented detergent, but I have had them repel (build-up). I had the occasional stain on an insert but they always faded or came out completely. Nevertheless, I decided to give Tide (regular strong detergent) a try, and it's worked great. Before that I was using Rockin' Green. IIRC, all my delamination issues happened before the switch, so I don't think there's any correlation. I'm also using Calgon, a water softener (I get orange rusty stains on the shower curtain and in the toilet so I've definitely got hard water). Anyway, now I never ever have stains. Same thing with DH's collar ring -- bye bye collar ring. Also, I think I've had less repelling but it's definitely happened once or twice on the Tide (I think that was before I used Calgon though).

Oh, and also I've used bleach a couple of times. I used it after the stinkies at my mom's, and when it didn't seem to hurt the diapers, I've done it once or twice more.

All this is to say that I don't really know. I think regular detergent works better. Your cloth diapers won't last forever, but you don't want them to be gross in the mean time. I'd sacrifice a little of their longevity to do away with stains and stinks. FWIW, I did my best to read up on the ingredients in Tide Ultra and figure out if it's terrible for the environment, and while the answer wasn't clear (no site talking about environmental friendliness was like, oh, sure, it's totally fine), I also couldn't find anything that said why it was super terrible. They reformulated it partly to address environmental concerns, so that gives me some reassurance.

You know what, I did use Oxyclean a few times back in the Rockin Green stain days. I didn't notice that it really helped. And sunning them would fade the stains but not eliminate them completely. I remember having to flip the inserts in the sun to try to get the stains out on both sides. I haven't had a single stain with Tide. Now the thought of stains is pretty gross since I know that there is something out there capable of getting them out.

Not trying to sway anyway . . . I know a lot of us got into CDing because we care about being environmentally friendly, and I don't have much of an informed answer about that part of using "regular" detergent. But my diapers are definitely cleaner now.

PG - I know you've mentioned switching to Tide in previous posts, but I suppose I've never found them as convincing as this one! So, really, regular, regular Tide? Not free and clear (or whatever Tide calls their "free" version)? I want to try it, but I'm scared!!! I've only ever used non-additive stuff for any of S's clothes. She got a rash (only on her back) once, and I swear I think she got it from my husband's cheapo detergent that he says he didn't use on her clothes. It's not tide, but some really cheap no-name super-blue stuff. He probably never did, and I am probably worried for nothing, but I'm afraid to use Tide!!

I wonder if I could use it in my first cycle, and then use Charlies in my second . . . hmmmmmm.

 

[yellowducky]

Good point Pancake, my offer may not stand once #2 arrives!

I've never had problems with stinkies on my diapers except for when I washed them in my mom's ancient top-loader with a scented detergent, but I have had them repel (build-up). I had the occasional stain on an insert but they always faded or came out completely. Nevertheless, I decided to give Tide (regular strong detergent) a try, and it's worked great. Before that I was using Rockin' Green. IIRC, all my delamination issues happened before the switch, so I don't think there's any correlation. I'm also using Calgon, a water softener (I get orange rusty stains on the shower curtain and in the toilet so I've definitely got hard water). Anyway, now I never ever have stains. Same thing with DH's collar ring -- bye bye collar ring. Also, I think I've had less repelling but it's definitely happened once or twice on the Tide (I think that was before I used Calgon though).

Oh, and also I've used bleach a couple of times. I used it after the stinkies at my mom's, and when it didn't seem to hurt the diapers, I've done it once or twice more.

All this is to say that I don't really know. I think regular detergent works better. Your cloth diapers won't last forever, but you don't want them to be gross in the mean time. I'd sacrifice a little of their longevity to do away with stains and stinks. FWIW, I did my best to read up on the ingredients in Tide Ultra and figure out if it's terrible for the environment, and while the answer wasn't clear (no site talking about environmental friendliness was like, oh, sure, it's totally fine), I also couldn't find anything that said why it was super terrible. They reformulated it partly to address environmental concerns, so that gives me some reassurance.

You know what, I did use Oxyclean a few times back in the Rockin Green stain days. I didn't notice that it really helped. And sunning them would fade the stains but not eliminate them completely. I remember having to flip the inserts in the sun to try to get the stains out on both sides. I haven't had a single stain with Tide. Now the thought of stains is pretty gross since I know that there is something out there capable of getting them out.

Not trying to sway anyway . . . I know a lot of us got into CDing because we care about being environmentally friendly, and I don't have much of an informed answer about that part of using "regular" detergent. But my diapers are definitely cleaner now.

================================================

Sorry, that earlier post was driving me nuts! In its correct/reader-friendly place:

I'm not sure when Tide was reformulated but a lab test (perhaps several tests -- it's been a while since I read up on this, so my memory is faltering) found relatively high levels of 1-,4-dioxane in both Tide and Tide Free.

 

[phoenixgirl]

LV, with a skin sensitivity I'd definitely be careful, especially if your wash routine is working for you now. Mine wasn't really not working -- I didn't have stains that often, and they faded over time. But Tide definitely works better, and it's not like people aren't washing other things with water proof linings or organic fibers with regular detergent, or putting things washed in regular detergent against their kids' skin. But some people really are sensitive to the stuff in stronger detergents so I'd want to test out maybe a shirt or something before moving on to the diapers.

Honestly, now that I think about how I had repelling after I switched to Tide but before I started using Calgon, I wonder how much mineral buildup I was having.

Also, I've made a few other changes. I realized that my on-demand water heater takes soooooo long to get the water heated that I was probably filling my "hot" cycle with cold/lukewarm water. So now I run the water first to make sure it's hot. Also, since I've got the water running, I've been saving it to add after the washer stops adding water. So now there's a lot more water in there. So all of these things combined may be getting my diapers cleaner (though the collar ring is just Tide - it's definitely better on organic stains in general). And then there's the occasional bleach I've thrown in.

I almost feel confident enough in my washing abilities to try used diapers because I think I could defunk them, but I still don't think I can pull the trigger. It just seems gross to me, and you can usually find good deals on new ones.

YD - Just saw your post, off to google dioxane and Tide . . .

 

[PilsnPinkysMom]

LV, with a skin sensitivity I'd definitely be careful, especially if your wash routine is working for you now. Mine wasn't really not working -- I didn't have stains that often, and they faded over time. But Tide definitely works better, and it's not like people aren't washing other things with water proof linings or organic fibers with regular detergent, or putting things washed in regular detergent against their kids' skin. But some people really are sensitive to the stuff in stronger detergents so I'd want to test out maybe a shirt or something before moving on to the diapers.

Honestly, now that I think about how I had repelling after I switched to Tide but before I started using Calgon, I wonder how much mineral buildup I was having.

Also, I've made a few other changes. I realized that my on-demand water heater takes soooooo long to get the water heated that I was probably filling my "hot" cycle with cold/lukewarm water. So now I run the water first to make sure it's hot. Also, since I've got the water running, I've been saving it to add after the washer stops adding water. So now there's a lot more water in there. So all of these things combined may be getting my diapers cleaner (though the collar ring is just Tide - it's definitely better on organic stains in general). And then there's the occasional bleach I've thrown in.

I almost feel confident enough in my washing abilities to try used diapers because I think I could defunk them, but I still don't think I can pull the trigger. It just seems gross to me, and you can usually find good deals on new ones.

YD - Just saw your post, off to google dioxane and Tide . . .

PG, could you explain this further? I feel silly for asking this question, but... ... Do you run the water in a sink/utility tub before starting your washing machine? And once the water from the faucet gets hot, you start your wash cycle? Also, when you say that you save the water and add it to your washing machine once IT stops adding water, how do you do that? I have a front-loader and I thought there was some point mid-cycle where it was no longer possible to unlock and open the door. Wouldn't all the water run out? Gosh- I am an appliance dunce!!! I've read a lot about the importance of a high water level, and our HE IG washer definitely uses as little water as possible... so I'm wondering how I can ensure that the water level is high enough during my CD cycles.

I've heard a trick about throwing towels in with the CDs to add weight and "trick" the machine into adding more water, but I thought it was all relative? The machine would add more water, sure, but I also would have added to the load by throwing in absorbent, water-sucking towels in the wash. Sorry... now I'm just rambling!! Washing CDs is what I am most nervous about, if ya couldn't tell.

 

[phoenixgirl]

PPM, I turn the water on in the utility sink before I'm going to start my load and catch the hot water in a bucket or cup. I wait until it gets hot (which takes a couple of minutes) so some water goes down the drain, unfortunately. Then I wait for the washer to stop adding water, and I add the extra water right into the liquid detergent dispenser (which is also where the water runs through when the washer adds water, I guess to propel the detergent down there). So no, I'm not opening up the drum once washing has begun. Are you able to access your liquid detergent tray during washing? Mine doesn't lock or anything.

YD, I can't really find any information on the dioxane, boo. I see the report that Tide had the highest parts per million in the 2010 study, but that was before they came out with Tide Ultra, which, reading between the lines, I believe was reformulated to at least bump them out of the top spot for dioxane toxicity. I don't know if any of this information really addresses the dioxane issue: http://www.pgproductsafety.com/productsafety/msds/fabric_and_homecare/detergents/Ultra_Tide_HE_Granular_Laundry_Detergent.pdf

I found this description of 1,4-dioxane: "1,4-dioxane is generated as a byproduct of ethoxylation, a cheap shortcut used by companies to provide mildness to harsh cleaning ingredients, which requires use of the cancer-causing petrochemical ethylene oxide. 1,4-dioxane is considered a chemical “known to the State of California to cause cancer” under proposition 65, and is also suspected as a kidney toxicant, neurotoxicant and respiratory toxicant, among others, according to the California EPA." I didn't see any mention of "ethylene oxide" in the list of ingredients on the PDF above. I assume it would be listed? Why is this is information so hard to find, darnit?

FWIW, I remember checking the EWG's (the agency that performed the tests) sunscreen recommendations (more like "avoid" lists), and saw obvious flaws in their methodology, so it's not an organization that I would trust as my sole source of important info.

My guess is that the roll-out of Tide Ultra, which made all these Tide-lovers on DS freak out, was in response to CA's pressure and the bad press they got. But they've somehow managed to keep it hush-hush instead of being all, "Hey everybody! Look at us! We made our products less cancer-causing! Yay!" since they'd rather the general public remain ignorant about the findings of 1,4-dioxane in the first place. Just speculating here. Wish there were more info out there. I had the same problem when I was trying to determine just why I had been using "environmentally friendly" cleaning products -- what I was trying to avoid, what the impact of the stronger stuff was, etc. The information I could find was either written by idiot bloggers or by scientists for other scientists.

I'm not married to Tide or anything (I may give RnG a try again assuming I have a partial bag somewhere -- to see how much success is my new hot/extra water and Calgon switch-ups), so if anyone can enlighten me, please do. I haven't really succeeded in doing so myself.

 

[yellowducky]

PPM, I turn the water on in the utility sink before I'm going to start my load and catch the hot water in a bucket or cup. I wait until it gets hot (which takes a couple of minutes) so some water goes down the drain, unfortunately. Then I wait for the washer to stop adding water, and I add the extra water right into the liquid detergent dispenser (which is also where the water runs through when the washer adds water, I guess to propel the detergent down there). So no, I'm not opening up the drum once washing has begun. Are you able to access your liquid detergent tray during washing? Mine doesn't lock or anything.

YD, I can't really find any information on the dioxane, boo. I see the report that Tide had the highest parts per million in the 2010 study, but that was before they came out with Tide Ultra, which, reading between the lines, I believe was reformulated to at least bump them out of the top spot for dioxane toxicity. I don't know if any of this information really addresses the dioxane issue: http://www.pgproductsafety.com/productsafety/msds/fabric_and_homecare/detergents/Ultra_Tide_HE_Granular_Laundry_Detergent.pdf

I found this description of 1,4-dioxane: "1,4-dioxane is generated as a byproduct of ethoxylation, a cheap shortcut used by companies to provide mildness to harsh cleaning ingredients, which requires use of the cancer-causing petrochemical ethylene oxide. 1,4-dioxane is considered a chemical “known to the State of California to cause cancer” under proposition 65, and is also suspected as a kidney toxicant, neurotoxicant and respiratory toxicant, among others, according to the California EPA." I didn't see any mention of "ethylene oxide" in the list of ingredients on the PDF above. I assume it would be listed? Why is this is information so hard to find, darnit?

FWIW, I remember checking the EWG's (the agency that performed the tests) sunscreen recommendations (more like "avoid" lists), and saw obvious flaws in their methodology, so it's not an organization that I would trust as my sole source of important info.

My guess is that the roll-out of Tide Ultra, which made all these Tide-lovers on DS freak out, was in response to CA's pressure and the bad press they got. But they've somehow managed to keep it hush-hush instead of being all, "Hey everybody! Look at us! We made our products less cancer-causing! Yay!" since they'd rather the general public remain ignorant about the findings of 1,4-dioxane in the first place. Just speculating here. Wish there were more info out there. I had the same problem when I was trying to determine just why I had been using "environmentally friendly" cleaning products -- what I was trying to avoid, what the impact of the stronger stuff was, etc. The information I could find was either written by idiot bloggers or by scientists for other scientists.

I'm not married to Tide or anything (I may give RnG a try again assuming I have a partial bag somewhere -- to see how much success is my new hot/extra water and Calgon switch-ups), so if anyone can enlighten me, please do. I haven't really succeeded in doing so myself.

========
okay, obvious disclaimer: i am not a chemist. the closest i come is a semester of organic chemistry. my husband, whom i consulted, is also not a chemist, but he is an (electrical) engineer with interests (and a dissertation) that cross into chemistry, material science and the like, so please take this response with a grain of salt. i believe that the "alcohol ethoxysulfate" is one (probably of many) problematic chemicals in the msds you linked to. from brief research, it appears that alcohol ethoxysulfate is created through the combination of ethylene oxide and an alcohol -- that process is called ethoxylation. the contamination occurs from that process. since it is a by-product of the reaction and not an ingredient in a traditional sense, that is probably why the FDA does not require that it be listed in the msds and why you were unable to readily identify it. hubby believes that a cheap ethoxylation process will result in 1-,4-dioxane contamination.

while i appreciate p&g and others' (e.g., j&j and their formaldehyde-laced baby shampoos) reformulation efforts, i guess to be ultra conservative, i personally don't feel comfortable with conventional brands like these and their products. (a number of popular shampoos, like herbal essence and head&shoulders, and other consumer products, like dawn dish detergent, were found to contain 1-,4-dioxane.) i also avoid synthetic fragrances (in lotions, shampoos, and laundry detergents) since that is also not very well regulated. EWG is a great resource that has helped me to at least feel like i am making better informed choices around my health. while their safe skin database isn't comprehensive and the methodology isn't perfect, i still think it's a starting point for people to make more conscious decisions about personal care products.

to sum, i'm NOT a chemist -- just a concerned consumer attempting to minimize exposures to harmful chemicals. hope that helps. and, of course, we wait with bated breath for a true expert to come along and clear up any misinformation i may have perpetuated.

 

[Loves Vintage]

YD and PG - Thanks for this discussion. I think I may stick with the Charlies afterall. May have to try and talk DH out of that cheap blue stuff he insists on for his clothes. But, now I'm wondering what's in Oxyclean??

 

[yellowducky]

YD and PG - Thanks for this discussion. I think I may stick with the Charlies afterall. May have to try and talk DH out of that cheap blue stuff he insists on for his clothes. But, now I'm wondering what's in Oxyclean??

LV, i think you're safe using oxiclean, if you're using the more basic/simpler versions (like the free or baby versions -- i use the free version and plan on using the baby version once we have a little one). the ingredients are pretty innocuous from what i can tell. the main difference between the free and baby versions, as it was explained to me by a company rep, though not very eloquently, is that the baby version is more neutral (or less basic) than the free version. i think the regular versatile product is the most basic with respect to pH and probably the most effective, though it is loaded with a few other (detergent-like) things that aren't found in the free or baby versions. i've also come across oxo brite (made by earth friendly products). that is another pretty simple/innocuous product from what i can tell and an alternative to oxiclean.

 

[yellowducky]

YD and PG - Thanks for this discussion. I think I may stick with the Charlies afterall. May have to try and talk DH out of that cheap blue stuff he insists on for his clothes. But, now I'm wondering what's in Oxyclean??

haha. optical brighteners have always freaked me out. i like to know that my clothes ARE clean instead of just looking clean via an optical illusion.

 

[pancake]

Not trying to sway anyway . . . I know a lot of us got into CDing because we care about being environmentally friendly, and I don't have much of an informed answer about that part of using "regular" detergent. But my diapers are definitely cleaner now.

I think this is a really good point for me. I want to use cloth because of the environmental aspect and having cloth next to Dot's bum... but having dirty-looking cloth will definitely put me off and as much as it's not PC or purist to say so, I would rather have to buy some more CDs down the track because I shortened the life of mine a little by keeping them cleaner, than stopping using CDs because I can't stand the staining!

 

[PilsnPinkysMom]

YD and PG - Thanks for this discussion. I think I may stick with the Charlies afterall. May have to try and talk DH out of that cheap blue stuff he insists on for his clothes. But, now I'm wondering what's in Oxyclean??

haha. optical brighteners have always freaked me out. i like to know that my clothes ARE clean instead of just looking clean via an optical illusion.

I just Googled these.

I'm pretty sure the cheap detergent I'm currently using has optical brighteners in it. Oy.

To add to the detergent discussion... Our local CD store highly recommends Charlie's Soap. Anyone here tried it?

 

[phoenixgirl]

YD, that was very helpful, thank you. Like I said, I either found blogs that were like, "Your [sic] not going to believe what's in detergent and shampoo!" without any actual information, or some very scholarly discussion of what surfactants are banned in Europe that aren't banned here and what happens if they're not treated properly by your sewage treatment plant. It's a shame that there's not more information readily available on this. Maybe you should start a blog that discusses the actual ingredients and what's up with them!

FWIW, it sounds like 1, 4-dioxane was carcinogenic to rats at 5,000 ppm in drinking water. http://cfpub.epa.gov/ols/catalog/catalog_display.cfm?&FIELD1=SUBJECT&INPUT1=Dioxane&TYPE1=EXACT&item_count=25 So that means that it's carcinogenic at 100x the amount found in the Tide Original, which we assume but cannot confirm has been reduced in Tide Ultra? I don't know if this is reassuring or not.

LV, next time I wash, I'll try the RnG with calgon and extra hot water and see if I can tell a difference. I thought my build-up issues were the RnG but it could have been my hard water and not using enough detergent. Unfortunately, I already washed today so it won't be until Tuesday. Are you having any issues with the Charlie's?

I guess it's a tough call. Like my friend with the gross diapers -- they have these big, brown stains all over them, even on the outside of the pocket (these are Fuzzibunz). I don't know what on earth she's doing to them!?!? I know people say stains are OK and just sun them out, but I just can't believe that her diapers are clean when they look that way. If I can switch back to RnG with my new routine, great, but I really don't want to go back to fighting stains if I can help it now that I know that with certain cleaners, you don't have to have them. But I'm willing to experiment to see if I can find something that works well but doesn't produce the dioxane. Win/win in that case, right?

 

[PilsnPinkysMom]

YD and PG - Thanks for this discussion. I think I may stick with the Charlies afterall. May have to try and talk DH out of that cheap blue stuff he insists on for his clothes. But, now I'm wondering what's in Oxyclean??

haha. optical brighteners have always freaked me out. i like to know that my clothes ARE clean instead of just looking clean via an optical illusion.

I just Googled these.

I'm pretty sure the cheap detergent I'm currently using has optical brighteners in it. Oy.

To add to the detergent discussion... Our local CD store highly recommends Charlie's Soap. Anyone here tried it?

LV... clearly I missed where you said you used this! I will check through the thread to see if I can learn more!

 

[Loves Vintage]

PPM - I use Charlies. As I mentioned to YellowDucky, I have it on auto-delivery from Amazon. I find that feature super super convenient. It's one less thing that I have to remember. It just winds up on my door step every month, just in time. Love it. It is not perfect, because I do still wind up with some staining, but no stinkies, so that is good! ETA: Just saw your post. What type of diapers do you have so far? I meant to mention Tots Bots Easy Fits to you, since you mentioned a few posts back that you wanted pockets just for daycare. TBEFs are nice because the "insert" is attached to the diaper, so you just tuck it in, and then it agitates itself out in the wash. So, you don't have to physically pull the insert out before throwing in the machine. Typically, you would just take the insert out and put it in your wetbag/or liner at home, but daycare won't be doing this. They will just put the whole cd in the bag. Anyway, they are also super soft and lovely, I think!

PG - The only issue I have with Charlies is that I do still have some staining. It is slight, fortunately, and nothing like the crazy stains I've seen on DS!! But, it still bothers me. I've been sunning some this weekend, and not seeing the amazing results that everyone promises. That's why sometimes I will do a soak with Oxiclean. It seems there is no perfect system, though I think Puppmom has had great results with her detergent. I don't recall the name at the moment.

YD - Incidentally, I believe I have the standard Oxiclean (not baby and not versatile.) I think one of the diaper companies, maybe fuzzibunz, actually recommends Oxiclean (non-versatile), on their website. Off to go check! Ok, here it is: http://www.fuzzibunzonline.com/Fuzzi-Bunz-FAQs_ep_37-1.html#q8b I knew it was a diaper company because I never used Oxi prior to CD'g. When I first started using FBs, I thought I had repelling issues. Turns out, I did not, just needed to make those diapers a little more snug. So, that's why I started with oxiclean! That's also why I switched to Charlies!!!!! Because I started with FB size smalls, and I read their Charlies rec on that same page. Funny how my tired mind forgets these details!

******************
Ok, so I am thinking of getting some prefolds! I currently have one prefold. It's a zabi prefold, and I got it because I bought a cover (can't remember the name right now, but PPM, you mentioned the brand a day or two ago, they were on special somewhere.) Anyway, I got the cover for the print, and never really got into prefolds because of my love of Tots Bots. Well, lately, I've been liking my one little prefold, but I don't find it as soft as I would like, certainly no where near as soft as the Tots Bots. I know there are a few threads on DS re: what are the softest prefolds. I think I'll go take another look. Anyone here using prefolds that are super soft? Do they make one-size covers?

 

[yellowducky]

PPM - I use Charlies. As I mentioned to YellowDucky, I have it on auto-delivery from Amazon. I find that feature super super convenient. It's one less thing that I have to remember. It just winds up on my door step every month, just in time. Love it. It is not perfect, because I do still wind up with some staining, but no stinkies, so that is good! ETA: Just saw your post. What type of diapers do you have so far? I meant to mention Tots Bots Easy Fits to you, since you mentioned a few posts back that you wanted pockets just for daycare. TBEFs are nice because the "insert" is attached to the diaper, so you just tuck it in, and then it agitates itself out in the wash. So, you don't have to physically pull the insert out before throwing in the machine. Typically, you would just take the insert out and put it in your wetbag/or liner at home, but daycare won't be doing this. They will just put the whole cd in the bag. Anyway, they are also super soft and lovely, I think!

PG - The only issue I have with Charlies is that I do still have some staining. It is slight, fortunately, and nothing like the crazy stains I've seen on DS!! But, it still bothers me. I've been sunning some this weekend, and not seeing the amazing results that everyone promises. That's why sometimes I will do a soak with Oxiclean. It seems there is no perfect system, though I think Puppmom has had great results with her detergent. I don't recall the name at the moment.

YD - Incidentally, I believe I have the standard Oxiclean (not baby and not versatile.) I think one of the diaper companies, maybe fuzzibunz, actually recommends Oxiclean (non-versatile), on their website. Off to go check! Ok, here it is: http://www.fuzzibunzonline.com/Fuzzi-Bunz-FAQs_ep_37-1.html#q8b I knew it was a diaper company because I never used Oxi prior to CD'g. When I first started using FBs, I thought I had repelling issues. Turns out, I did not, just needed to make those diapers a little more snug. So, that's why I started with oxiclean! That's also why I switched to Charlies!!!!! Because I started with FB size smalls, and I read their Charlies rec on that same page. Funny how my tired mind forgets these details!

******************
Ok, so I am thinking of getting some prefolds! I currently have one prefold. It's a zabi prefold, and I got it because I bought a cover (can't remember the name right now, but PPM, you mentioned the brand a day or two ago, they were on special somewhere.) Anyway, I got the cover for the print, and never really got into prefolds because of my love of Tots Bots. Well, lately, I've been liking my one little prefold, but I don't find it as soft as I would like, certainly no where near as soft as the Tots Bots. I know there are a few threads on DS re: what are the softest prefolds. I think I'll go take another look. Anyone here using prefolds that are super soft? Do they make one-size covers?

============

thanks for the note -- good to know b/c i just received 4 fuzzibunz dipes in the mail the other day. (yes, i have quite the budding stash of dipes with no immediate baby on the way! what can i say? CD buying is a disease.) i wonder why they recommend the non-free version. my understanding is the free version omits dyes and fragrances. if that is the only difference -- though from my confusing conversation with the customer rep, it sounded like there MIGHT be a formulation difference between versatile free and regular versatile -- then the dyes and fragrances might help give the appearance of whiter, better smelling diapers. if there is a formulation difference, oxiclean versatile is probably more alkaline, making it beter at stain removal but also making it potentially harder on natural fibers, like cotton and hemp. i plan on sticking with oxiclean free for myself and hubby's laundry since i'm really trying to eliminate synthetic fragrances and dyes and will use oxiclean baby and bac-out in rotation for baby dipes. i wish these diaper manufacturers would just get together and come to a consensus about care instructions. some recommend oxiclean, hot water rinses, etc. and others making seemingly identical diapers recommend the opposite. talk about confusing!

oh, and i plan on giving charlie's powdered soap a try. just my observation but it appears that powdered versions of products usually have fewer additives than the liquid versions.

 

[Loves Vintage]

YD - One manufacturer, Rocky Mountain Diapers (never got a good fit, though chickadee print is adorable!), told me that Oxiclean ruins the elastic? I dunno, and I also don't know why they recommend one formulation over the other. Very confusing.

When are you due, by the way? What else is in your stash?

 

[yellowducky]

YD, that was very helpful, thank you. Like I said, I either found blogs that were like, "Your [sic] not going to believe what's in detergent and shampoo!" without any actual information, or some very scholarly discussion of what surfactants are banned in Europe that aren't banned here and what happens if they're not treated properly by your sewage treatment plant. It's a shame that there's not more information readily available on this. Maybe you should start a blog that discusses the actual ingredients and what's up with them!
FWIW, it sounds like 1, 4-dioxane was carcinogenic to rats at 5,000 ppm in drinking water. http://cfpub.epa.gov/ols/catalog/catalog_display.cfm?&FIELD1=SUBJECT&INPUT1=Dioxane&TYPE1=EXACT&item_count=25 So that means that it's carcinogenic at 100x the amount found in the Tide Original, which we assume but cannot confirm has been reduced in Tide Ultra? I don't know if this is reassuring or not.

LV, next time I wash, I'll try the RnG with calgon and extra hot water and see if I can tell a difference. I thought my build-up issues were the RnG but it could have been my hard water and not using enough detergent. Unfortunately, I already washed today so it won't be until Tuesday. Are you having any issues with the Charlie's?

I guess it's a tough call. Like my friend with the gross diapers -- they have these big, brown stains all over them, even on the outside of the pocket (these are Fuzzibunz). I don't know what on earth she's doing to them!?!? I know people say stains are OK and just sun them out, but I just can't believe that her diapers are clean when they look that way. If I can switch back to RnG with my new routine, great, but I really don't want to go back to fighting stains if I can help it now that I know that with certain cleaners, you don't have to have them. But I'm willing to experiment to see if I can find something that works well but doesn't produce the dioxane. Win/win in that case, right?

thanks, but TRUST ME, i have absolutely no authority on this matter. i'd hate to steer people wrong based on my rudimentary research skills (well, as it relates to chemistry, which is NOT my area of expertise whatsoever). it's unfortunate that good, accessible information is so hard to come by, but hopefully that will change as more consumers get informed, ask questions, and demand change (by voting with their dollars or otherwise).

i used to use regular tide decades ago, and i noticed that my clothes would seem to wear out faster. the fibers would seem to felt and colors seemed to fade sooner, and my clothes always smelled highly perfumed even after washing and drying.

 

[yellowducky]

YD - One manufacturer, Rocky Mountain Diapers (never got a good fit, though chickadee print is adorable!), told me that Oxiclean ruins the elastic? I dunno, and I also don't know why they recommend one formulation over the other. Very confusing.

When are you due, by the way? What else is in your stash?

===
i do think most detergents can harm elastic b/c i would think most elastics contain rubber, which is a natural material. stripping oil, like from washing, and heat exposure (not to mention repeated stress from stretching) can age rubber. since it sounds like elastics commonly go bad anyway, i think i'll just swap out elastics whenever necessary and not stress too much about premature wear from laundering. i plan on changing out the velcro to snaps on a few of my dipes, so i guess i have all the materials i'll need anyway.

i'm not actually pregnant but planning on trying in a few months. in typical type A fashion, i'm researching the heck out of anything and everything and preparing way in advance. (i actually dropped out of a phd program due to a relocation for my husband's job, so baby prep has become my pastime as of late.)

it's embarrassing to admit that my stash is quite large. in a nutshell, i have about 24 pocket diapers (itemized list below), 7 covers, and 42 prefolds. making it even worse is that hubby totally facilitates this hobby of mine by sweetly suggesting that i purchase even MORE diapers when i express some concerns about the current stash. (crazy man! but gotta love him...)

so my detailed stash:
- 2 one-size (OS) grovia shells
- 2 thirsties duo wraps (size 1 and size 2)
- 3 cloth for your angel (etsy seller) diaper covers
- 1 drybees fleece pocket diaper
- 2 OS sage pocket diapers
- 2 OS diaper rite pocket diapers
- 4 fuzzibunz perfect fit pocket diapers (large)
- 2 charlie banana pocket diapers (large)
- 3 OS bum genius 4.0 pocket diapers
- 2 weehuggers blueberry pocket diapers (size 1 and size 2)
- 6 OS AMP pocket diapers
- 2 OS bum cheeks pocket diapers
- 6 bamboo prefolds (from cloth for your angel)
- 24 clotheez newborn/orange prefolds
- 12 clotheez infant/yellow prefolds
- a handful of natural fiber inserts/doublers and a few snappis

do i have enough dipes?

 

[yellowducky]

oh, and if anyone is looking for a good lead on new sized diapers for a pretty good discount, do private message me if there is a way to do that. the addict becomes the dealer...

 

[Loves Vintage]

YD - One manufacturer, Rocky Mountain Diapers (never got a good fit, though chickadee print is adorable!), told me that Oxiclean ruins the elastic? I dunno, and I also don't know why they recommend one formulation over the other. Very confusing.

When are you due, by the way? What else is in your stash?

===
i do think most detergents can harm elastic b/c i would think most elastics contain rubber, which is a natural material. stripping oil, like from washing, and heat exposure (not to mention repeated stress from stretching) can age rubber. since it sounds like elastics commonly go bad anyway, i think i'll just swap out elastics whenever necessary and not stress too much about premature wear from laundering. i plan on changing out the velcro to snaps on a few of my dipes, so i guess i have all the materials i'll need anyway.

i'm not actually pregnant but planning on trying in a few months. in typical type A fashion, i'm researching the heck out of anything and everything and preparing way in advance. (i actually dropped out of a phd program due to a recent relocation for my husband's job, so baby prep has become my pastime as of late.)

it's embarrassing to admit that my stash is quite large. in a nutshell, i have about 24 pocket diapers (itemized list below), 7 covers, and 42 prefolds. making it even worse is that hubby totally facilitates this hobby of mine by sweetly suggesting that i purchase even MORE diapers when i express some concerns about the current stash. (crazy man! but gotta love him...)

so my detailed stash:
- 2 one-size (OS) grovia shells
- 2 thirsties duo wraps (size 1 and size 2)
- 3 cloth for your angel (etsy seller) diaper covers
- 1 drybees fleece pocket diaper
- 2 OS sage pocket diapers
- 2 OS diaper rite pocket diapers
- 4 fuzzibunz perfect fit pocket diapers (large)
- 2 charlie banana pocket diapers (large)
- 3 OS bum genius 4.0 pocket diapers
- 2 weehuggers blueberry pocket diapers (size 1 and size 2)
- 6 OS AMP pocket diapers
- 2 OS bum cheeks pocket diapers
- 6 bamboo prefolds (from cloth for your angel)
- 24 clotheez newborn/orange prefolds
- 12 clotheez infant/yellow prefolds
- a handful of natural fiber inserts/doublers and a few snappis

do i have enough dipes?

Oops! I wasn't sure how to read your post and thought you meant you were newly preggo! I'm quite sure you have more diapers than I do, but you know what they say, you can never have enough!!

 

[Loves Vintage]

oh, and if anyone is looking for a good lead on new sized diapers for a pretty good discount, do private message me if there is a way to do that. the addict becomes the dealer...

Funny!! There are no pm's here, but perhaps you're also on DS?

 

[yellowducky]

oh, and if anyone is looking for a good lead on new sized diapers for a pretty good discount, do private message me if there is a way to do that. the addict becomes the dealer...

Funny!! There are no pm's here, but perhaps you're also on DS?

i've signed up but never posted there and not very knowledgeable in general of the site or its messaging features -- do let me know if there is a way to connect. the motivation was to score some good quality, used dipes but i find the website difficult to search through and the sales forums distractingly dynamic/active.

 

[Loves Vintage]

oh, and if anyone is looking for a good lead on new sized diapers for a pretty good discount, do private message me if there is a way to do that. the addict becomes the dealer...

Funny!! There are no pm's here, but perhaps you're also on DS?

i've signed up but never posted there and not very knowledgeable in general of the site or its messaging features -- do let me know if there is a way to connect. the motivation was to score some good quality, used dipes but i find the website difficult to search through and the sales forums distractingly dynamic/active.

It is a VERY fast moving forum. PG knows the ins and outs of selling there if you were considering it. I think you need a certain number of posts before you can PM. What were you thinking of selling? I think it's the best place to list, though ebay buyers can buy fairly competitively (as in bidding for more than retail sometimes .)

 

[yellowducky]

oh, and if anyone is looking for a good lead on new sized diapers for a pretty good discount, do private message me if there is a way to do that. the addict becomes the dealer...

Funny!! There are no pm's here, but perhaps you're also on DS?

i've signed up but never posted there and not very knowledgeable in general of the site or its messaging features -- do let me know if there is a way to connect. the motivation was to score some good quality, used dipes but i find the website difficult to search through and the sales forums distractingly dynamic/active.

It is a VERY fast moving forum. PG knows the ins and outs of selling there if you were considering it. I think you need a certain number of posts before you can PM. What were you thinking of selling? I think it's the best place to list, though ebay buyers can buy fairly competitively (as in bidding for more than retail sometimes .)

oh, i was planning on buying. but seeing as how it was too fast a stream for this slow fish, i took a different tack, so my stash is entirely new. i won't prep anything until the need materializes though. but i'm hoping with good upkeep i'll be able to sell my stash there or elsewhere to recoup some of the costs! is your handle/username the same on DS?

 

[Loves Vintage]

oh, and if anyone is looking for a good lead on new sized diapers for a pretty good discount, do private message me if there is a way to do that. the addict becomes the dealer...

Funny!! There are no pm's here, but perhaps you're also on DS?

i've signed up but never posted there and not very knowledgeable in general of the site or its messaging features -- do let me know if there is a way to connect. the motivation was to score some good quality, used dipes but i find the website difficult to search through and the sales forums distractingly dynamic/active.

It is a VERY fast moving forum. PG knows the ins and outs of selling there if you were considering it. I think you need a certain number of posts before you can PM. What were you thinking of selling? I think it's the best place to list, though ebay buyers can buy fairly competitively (as in bidding for more than retail sometimes .)

oh, i was planning on buying. but seeing as how it was too fast a stream for this slow fish, i took a different tack, so my stash is entirely new. i won't prep anything until the need materializes though. but i'm hoping with good upkeep i'll be able to sell my stash there or elsewhere to recoup some of the costs! is your handle/username the same on DS?

Oh, I misunderstood again!! I thought you wanted to sell some of your stash. That's how I interpreted your dealer comment! My screen name is different there. Since you need a few posts to send or receive messages, if you post something in the intros forum, I'm sure I could find you.