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Close to Pulling Trigger - Tiffany Novo - Advice Needed

WangTa

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
10
Hey guys,

So I've been lurking the forums for awhile and think I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on an engagement ring. We've been in many stores over the past couple months and my gf is in love with the Tiffany Novo, which was also my personal favorite.

So I've been working with a guy at Tiffany's for the past couple weeks trying to find a diamond that fits my criteria, which is 1.9-low 2 carat, VS1 or VS2, and I to H color. Apparently there has been a diamond shortage for Tiffany's nationwide, so it has been incredibly difficult to find a diamond that comes close to these targets. Also, Tiffany's increased prices nationwide last Friday. Looking at past forum postings, it seems that diamonds have seriously increased in price over the past two years - I thought we were in a bad economic environment? Looking at Tiffany prices, you'd never know! Random question - Have diamond prices nationwide (not just at Tiffany's) increased since '08 due to the rebound in commodity prices?

Anyways, I was able to get my hands on a Novo that is 2.10 carats, VVS2 and I color. I would of preferred a reduction in clarity for an increase in color, but in my short time looking at Tiffany rings, it seems that color commands a serious premium - thus, a 2.10 carat VS2 G would cost more than a VVS1 I color?

I almost pulled the trigger today but wanted to take a day to think about it before going through. A couple friends urged me to look at the "Solasfera Channel Ring" which has a similar setting as the Novo but has a circular Solasfera diamond vs the Novo cushion cut. In reviewing the Solasfera ring, it seems to be incredibly sparkly - perhaps even to the point of annoyance. Not sure what pricing is in these, but I'm guessing they are cheaper than Tiffany!

I also looked at Bluenile's Nouveau ring, which like the Solasfera Channel ring, is Novo inspired but uses a round diamond. However, I was expecting a significant price differential between Bluenile and Tiffany and in the 2 carat range, there isn't as much pricing difference as one would think - only a $5,000 difference when considering the aforementioned Tiffany vs a Bluenile 2 carat VS1 H. Given the intangibles that come with Tiffany - lifetime support and repair, trade-ins, etc - I think the $5,000 premium for Tiffany might be worth it (actually, taxes add to the Tiffany premium).

So not really sure what I'm looking for in terms of guidance. There are three points that are currently weighing heavily on my decision:

1. I'm leaning toward the Novo because my gf, while not obsessed with Tiffany, has always liked their stuff (she has many silver rings from them, some of which she's kept and valued for 8+ years). I know she'll like whatever I get her, but I would hate for her to have any regret now or years later when looking at a Novo in a Tiffany store. Do any of you who have engagements rings/are married, ever have ring envy post-engagement? Or is this stupid and doesn't really happen?

2. I also had a question on size - I was looking to get a 2.0 because (1) that's what I can afford and (2) I want to show commitment, etc. But on second though, I'm questioning if it will look ridiculous on her hands. My gf is a petite asian girl - weighs around 100 lbs and I think has a 4.75 finger. Will a 2 carat ring look obnoxious?

3. The major thing holding me back from pulling the trigger on this one is the color vs. clarity. I was hoping to get as white a diamond as possible (IE: that I could afford) while getting the lowest clarity that is near perfect (VS1 or VS2). I looked at an I vs H vs G in the store and when put together, I could tell the difference between the I and the G. But honestly, when looking at them individually, they all looked good to me. Is I considered dull and less sparkly? I'm not sure how to feel about an I color.

Thanks guys, I know this is a long post but I have really enjoyed reading these forums the past couple months and would really appreciate any thoughts on my situation.

-W
 
WangTa|1310002558|2963272 said:
Hey guys,

So I've been lurking the forums for awhile and think I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on an engagement ring. We've been in many stores over the past couple months and my gf is in love with the Tiffany Novo, which was also my personal favorite.

So I've been working with a guy at Tiffany's for the past couple weeks trying to find a diamond that fits my criteria, which is 1.9-low 2 carat, VS1 or VS2, and I to H color. Apparently there has been a diamond shortage for Tiffany's nationwide, so it has been incredibly difficult to find a diamond that comes close to these targets. Also, Tiffany's increased prices nationwide last Friday. Looking at past forum postings, it seems that diamonds have seriously increased in price over the past two years - I thought we were in a bad economic environment? Looking at Tiffany prices, you'd never know! Random question - Have diamond prices nationwide (not just at Tiffany's) increased since '08 due to the rebound in commodity prices?

Anyways, I was able to get my hands on a Novo that is 2.10 carats, VVS2 and I color. I would of preferred a reduction in clarity for an increase in color, but in my short time looking at Tiffany rings, it seems that color commands a serious premium - thus, a 2.10 carat VS2 G would cost more than a VVS1 I color?

I almost pulled the trigger today but wanted to take a day to think about it before going through. A couple friends urged me to look at the "Solasfera Channel Ring" which has a similar setting as the Novo but has a circular Solasfera diamond vs the Novo cushion cut. In reviewing the Solasfera ring, it seems to be incredibly sparkly - perhaps even to the point of annoyance. Not sure what pricing is in these, but I'm guessing they are cheaper than Tiffany!

So not really sure what I'm looking for in terms of guidance. There are three points that are currently weighing heavily on my decision:

1. I'm leaning toward the Novo because my gf, while not obsessed with Tiffany, has always liked their stuff (she has many silver rings from them, some of which she's kept and valued for 8+ years). I know she'll like whatever I get her, but I would hate for her to have any regret now or years later when looking at a Novo in a Tiffany store. Do any of you who have engagements rings/are married, ever have ring envy post-engagement? Or is this stupid and doesn't really happen?

2. I also had a question on size - I was looking to get a 2.0 because (1) that's what I can afford and (2) I want to show commitment, etc. But on second though, I'm questioning if it will look ridiculous on her hands. My gf is a petite asian girl - weighs around 100 lbs and I think has a 4.75 finger. Will a 2 carat ring look obnoxious?

3. The major thing holding me back from pulling the trigger on this one is the color vs. clarity. I was hoping to get as white a diamond as possible (IE: that I could afford) while getting the lowest clarity that is near perfect (VS1 or VS2). I looked at an I vs H vs G in the store and when put together, I could tell the difference between the I and the G. But honestly, when looking at them individually, they all looked good to me. Is I considered dull and less sparkly? I'm not sure how to feel about an I color.

Thanks guys, I know this is a long post but I have really enjoyed reading these forums the past couple months and would really appreciate any thoughts on my situation.

-W


if she loves the Tiffany Novo then I would get it. I would definitely ask if they can find you a higher color. the color will not contribute to how 'sparkly' or not the diamond is--that is determined by cut. But if the color bothers you I would ask if they can find a G or H. Do you know what size she wants? I don't think a 2 ct would be obnoxious but some women might...it is really a matter of personal preference. Was there a size that she saw when you went to Tiffany's together that she liked?
 
slg47|1310002925|2963283 said:
if she loves the Tiffany Novo then I would get it. I would definitely ask if they can find you a higher color. the color will not contribute to how 'sparkly' or not the diamond is--that is determined by cut. But if the color bothers you I would ask if they can find a G or H. Do you know what size she wants? I don't think a 2 ct would be obnoxious but some women might...it is really a matter of personal preference. Was there a size that she saw when you went to Tiffany's together that she liked?

Thanks for the reply slg47. I actually think the I looks ok, but I'm more concerned that she'll get it and wish I prioritized the diamond C's better. At the end of the day, have any women wished their ring were a brighter color? I've asked for a H or G, but there are apparently NONE available in the nation, which seems strange to me. Am I buying this ring at at the worst time possible? Again, this could be totally normal as I'm a complete newb at ring shopping.

No, we didn't actually talk about size at all! We were really focused on design - and the Novo definitely was impressive in person.
 
WangTa|1310003239|2963291 said:
slg47|1310002925|2963283 said:
if she loves the Tiffany Novo then I would get it. I would definitely ask if they can find you a higher color. the color will not contribute to how 'sparkly' or not the diamond is--that is determined by cut. But if the color bothers you I would ask if they can find a G or H. Do you know what size she wants? I don't think a 2 ct would be obnoxious but some women might...it is really a matter of personal preference. Was there a size that she saw when you went to Tiffany's together that she liked?

Thanks for the reply slg47. I actually think the I looks ok, but I'm more concerned that she'll get it and wish I prioritized the diamond C's better. At the end of the day, have any women wished their ring were a brighter color? I've asked for a H or G, but there are apparently NONE available in the nation, which seems strange to me. Am I buying this ring at at the worst time possible? Again, this could be totally normal as I'm a complete newb at ring shopping.

It's possible that there are none available in the carat size you requested? There is nothing /wrong/ with the I color but if it will bother you to know that you have an I color diamond then I would suggest going with G or H.

No, we didn't actually talk about size at all! We were really focused on design - and the Novo definitely was impressive in person.
 
I love the Novo. If you are concerned about color then I'd try to get an H. I don't think a 2 carat novo would be too much on a her finger size at all.
 
I just checked on Tiffany's website and the 2 carat Novo starts from 36k - is that around the price you got? If so, I would look around as you could get something of better quality and have money left over. In my experience, Blue Nile is priced higher than a lot of other comparable online stores so you could save even more than 5k. I had a quick look on James Allen and there are 2 carat+ cushion diamonds from around 25k and they are G or better colour. You could even get in the D to F range for under 30k. Just my opinion.
 
I think that Tiffany is Tiffany. That is a separate thing altogether.

Obviously there is an added intangible to the entire process, that's what the brand stands for. Heck, why do you think we are even thinking of buying diamonds and paying this much for them if not for excellent marketing. So they are entwined aspects of the entire engagement process.

If you shopped specs, you would impress PS more, but the casual world could care less. They would understand Tiffany more.

So to me the question is actually, since budget isn't obviously a top priority (Tiffany + 2ct), then if your SO loves Tiffany it should be a good fit for her.

Unless you think she'll be impressed that you saved money, bought her a slightly brighter more fiery diamond in a possibly lower colour without a tiffany setting and box... I say go with what she'll love.

As an aside, I don't think she's obsessed by the brand, but every girl growing up locally has tons of silver jewelry from many various places costing anywhere from $10 to $50 on average. They always break/get lost/get replaced. But everyone I know who has a tiffany silver thing, still has it and either wears it, or could tell you without hesitation where it is.

Is she the same? If she is, get the Novo. No post purchase envy will ensue.
 
I personally would try to stay G or above. Although, I find Tiffany is stricter on colors and even their H looks very white.

A 2 ct cushion will not look too big on her finger. My cushion faces up like a 2 ct and my finger size is under 3.
 
If you think she is set on the brand name of Tiffany- I'd go that route as well.

However, if you think it's the look/design she is after and doesn't care about the brand, then I might look elsewhere. You can get a nice novo replica from many vendors, and you will get more for your money in terms of size and cut quality. I agree that VVS2 is overkill in terms of clarity and if you could find a VS2 you would be able to go higher in color for a similar cost.

I don't think a 2 carat is overkill on a small finger, I have a 2.3 round on a size 5 and yes it's large but not ridiculous by any means. And a cushion faces up smaller than a same-weight round.

which do you think it is?
 
If you can find a diamond you like, it sounds like Tiffany may be the way to go.

If you want to look at more online vendors, you might want to check out the square H&A stones at GoodOldGold, which I understand to be similar to the the Novo. Here's a 2 ct. H VS2.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8355/
 
I would not pay the premium for Tiffany. At the end of the day, you can get your girlfriend a bigger, higher color stone elsewhere for the price you'd pay at Tiffany. The 'I' color would not be white enough for me in a cushion, personally. A lot of PS vendors have a great Novo replica as well (BGD, James Allen, WF, ERD, GOG). Good luck! If you need help finding a great stone, we can definitely help you out!
 
TristanC|1310029315|2963568 said:
But everyone I know who has a tiffany silver thing, still has it and either wears it, or could tell you without hesitation where it is.

Is she the same? If she is, get the Novo. No post purchase envy will ensue.

TristanC - yes, you hit the nail on the head. She hasn't bought many things from Tiffany and of the things she has, they are all silver and bought as gifts - she really really values them and always wears atleast one. We were vacationing and she thought we had misplaced one of the silver rings - man, we looked around for an HOUR...only to find out it was in her makeup bag when we got home! Disaster averted.
 
nfowife|1310047369|2963701 said:
If you think she is set on the brand name of Tiffany- I'd go that route as well.

However, if you think it's the look/design she is after and doesn't care about the brand, then I might look elsewhere. You can get a nice novo replica from many vendors, and you will get more for your money in terms of size and cut quality. I agree that VVS2 is overkill in terms of clarity and if you could find a VS2 you would be able to go higher in color for a similar cost.

I don't think a 2 carat is overkill on a small finger, I have a 2.3 round on a size 5 and yes it's large but not ridiculous by any means. And a cushion faces up smaller than a same-weight round.

which do you think it is?

Good question. I think it's the look/design she really liked - the Novo immediately stood out to her. However, given a novo replica and a an actual novo that was similar, at a certain premium price I know she'd go for the actual Tiffany Novo despite the higher price. I just don't know where that medium is.

Is it me or have ALL diamond prices increased as of late? I mean, over the last two years, as the economy has tanked, it seems diamond prices have held pretty steady or increased, no?
 
CharmyPoo|1310046599|2963692 said:
I personally would try to stay G or above. Although, I find Tiffany is stricter on colors and even their H looks very white.

A 2 ct cushion will not look too big on her finger. My cushion faces up like a 2 ct and my finger size is under 3.

Thanks guys - from you and others' comments, it seems that a 2ish ct won't be "too" big :tongue:

That's originally what I thought - G or above. Putting the G and the H next to each other, I can barely tell a difference. However, there is a slight (very slight) difference between an I and a G. I think Tiffany diamonds are very color sensitive as prices seem to increase quickly with every upgrade in color. I would say the delta (change in price) is greater for an upgrade in color vs an upgrade in clarity (I-->G has a higher price jump than a VS1-->VVS2). Would others agree with this? Is this the way it works for all diamonds or is it vendor specific?
 
KittyGolightly|1310050936|2963758 said:
If you can find a diamond you like, it sounds like Tiffany may be the way to go.

If you want to look at more online vendors, you might want to check out the square H&A stones at GoodOldGold, which I understand to be similar to the the Novo. Here's a 2 ct. H VS2.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8355/

This looks really nice - though the inclusion looks to be right near the middle? Isn't it preferable to have it near the outside?

And this is what I mean with comparison shopping (IE: Bluenile) - this ring is $32k! Not too much less than the Tiffany diamond I'm looking at - though, it is a lower clarity with an uptick in color. And this doesn't come with a setting, right? So we're likely talking about ~$35k for this? Tiffany pricing isn't looking so bad after all...?

Love you guys - you are all very helpful. You could easily Tiffany bash and call me retarded/Brand whore, which could be true - but it seems you all are very understanding - as the guy, I'd be happy getting a ring at the 99 cent store! Its really about what makes her happy - FOREVER. I only plan to buy this thing once!!!!
 
No Brainer. From everything you have posted to date, it is obvious that you should get a Tiffany.

I don't think the size would matter as much to her as the brand.

As for the colours, they only grade inhouse. From my knowledge, GIA would grade colours identical or better than tiffany does. Cut is more subjective and Tiffany cuts are sometimes not perfect H&A etc, but are still ideal or very close to.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. I think she would love the Tiff, and in your case you would be better served getting a Tiff.

My suggestion would be, that given her finger size, see if they have anything very slightly smaller, that is a better colour and/or a lower clarity. If it has to be above 2, then just see the stone, buy it, and brag about how she said yes. :bigsmile:
 
Having an inclusion in the center isn't a terrible thing...as long as you can't see it. =D If it's a white crystal or a white feather or a small cloud AND it got a VS2 -- chances are, you will not be able to see it. Most likely. But the only way you can judge this is by looking.

And to echo what everyone else has said: If you want higher color and lower clarity, just wait for it. Don't feel pressured into buying something that isn't quite what you want -- lots of people are color sensitive (including me) but blind as a bat to inclusions (again...guilty!). Especially if you're only going to buy it once, just be patient.

Oh also, on the finger size -- I have almost the same finger size. It will look substantial, but not ridiculous. Also, you're spending like $30k+? I should hope that the ring would look big!
 
It sounds like it's going to be beautiful! I would definitely go ahead and get her the Tiffany ring, because it seems like that's what she has her heart set on, and since it's within your budget.

As for the size - a lot of it just depends upon what her personal preferences are, and maybe a little a bit on what's the 'norm' in your area. I have a 2.2 carat princess cut diamond and my ring size is 4.5, and I really love it! Some girls might be self conscious about it, but many definitely would not be.

I also think that you should go for whichever diamond that you like the most, and that makes you feel most comfortable. I'm also a 'color over clarity' person I guess. As long as I can't see the inclusion(s) with my naked eye, I would rather pick something with a higher color. Regardless, an 'I' is still pretty white, so even if you go with it, I think you will both still love it - but if there is a 'G' available and you feel more comfortable with it, then go for it. :)

Good luck, and congratulations on your upcoming engagement!
 
Guys - here are the specs of the diamond. Any thoughts? I tried to put these into the Holloway Cut Advisor but that seems to only be applicable for round diamonds.

SHAPE: SQUARE CUSHION
CUT: BRILLIANT
MEASUREMENTS (LENGTH x WIDTH x DEPTH IN MM) 7.72 x 7.69 x 5.10 mm
CARAT WEIGHT: 2.10 CARATS
COLOR GRADE: I
FLUORESCENCE: NONE
PRECISION OF CUT: EXCELLENT
SYMMETRY: VERY GOOD
POLISH: EXCELLENT
CLARITY GRADE: VVS2
TOTAL DEPTH PERCENTAGE: 66.3%
TABLE SIZE PERCENTAGE: 62%
CROWN HEIGHT PERCENTAGE: 14.8%
CROWN ANGLE: 36.0°
PAVILION DEPTH PERCENTAGE: 46.8%
PAVILION ANGLE: 42.4°
GIRDLE THICKNESS: MEDIUM TO SLIGHTLY THICK
GIRDLE FINISH: FACETED
CULET: NONE
 
Unfortunately, there's no way to judge a cushion by the numbers. You need an ASET (the red/green/blue) or an IdealScope (the red/black or red/white) image for that.

The different types of cushions just have different light performing properties. Short of ASET and IdealScope, a photo or video of the diamond is the best you can do -- unless you have the diamond in front of you, and can examine it in different lighting situations. Tiffany's (like most B&M stores) spends a fortune on lighting so that the diamond will look it's absolute best. It will never look as good as in the jewelry store!

If you can get to the store, I'd insist on looking at the diamond under incandescent and flourescent overhead lighting, and taking it over to a window to view it in direct sunlight. If it looks good to you in all 3 lighting situations, it's probably a keeper. But those LED spotlights at the diamond store are seriously deceptive! And for $30k, you deserve a good one!
 
Ah, that picture reminds me why I love that cut/shape so much. I would kill for a pink cushion cut in the Tiffany Novo cushion rather than the typical FCD cusion cuts.
 
It sounds like she loves the Novo so I would go for that. I have a Tiffany ering and have never regretted getting it. I absolutely adore it and have never had ring envy of any other ring. It's also an I in colour and it's extremely white. Best of luck with your purchase!
 
bee*|1310105066|2964468 said:
It sounds like she loves the Novo so I would go for that. I have a Tiffany ering and have never regretted getting it. I absolutely adore it and have never had ring envy of any other ring. It's also an I in colour and it's extremely white. Best of luck with your purchase!

Thanks bee* - the only thing that really has me nerveous about this is the "I" color. If this were an H or G, I'd have no reservations. But I went to the store and actually compared an I to a G and H. I could *barely* tell a difference between I and G, and between H and I, I couldn't tell at all. I tried to randomly identify I and H and couldn't really do it. G is a little whiter, but not by much?

Disclaimer - I'm a total newb at looking at diamonds. I just hope my gf is too!
 
WangTa|1310053854|2963797 said:
nfowife|1310047369|2963701 said:
If you think she is set on the brand name of Tiffany- I'd go that route as well.

However, if you think it's the look/design she is after and doesn't care about the brand, then I might look elsewhere. You can get a nice novo replica from many vendors, and you will get more for your money in terms of size and cut quality. I agree that VVS2 is overkill in terms of clarity and if you could find a VS2 you would be able to go higher in color for a similar cost.

I don't think a 2 carat is overkill on a small finger, I have a 2.3 round on a size 5 and yes it's large but not ridiculous by any means. And a cushion faces up smaller than a same-weight round.

which do you think it is?

Good question. I think it's the look/design she really liked - the Novo immediately stood out to her. However, given a novo replica and a an actual novo that was similar, at a certain premium price I know she'd go for the actual Tiffany Novo despite the higher price. I just don't know where that medium is.

Is it me or have ALL diamond prices increased as of late? I mean, over the last two years, as the economy has tanked, it seems diamond prices have held pretty steady or increased, no?

No, it's not just you. They have increased, I think twice very recently. :rolleyes:
 
Imdanny|1310152584|2964891 said:
No, it's not just you. They have increased, I think twice very recently. :rolleyes:

:lol: That seems counter-intuitive to me. Economy bad, people no jobs, less discretionary income, luxury good sales decrease? Obviously something wrong with this thought process!
 
I would suggest you go with the Tiffany Novo because you know your GF likes the ring. Also, it seems that you are concerned about the color since you mentioned that if it weren't for the color, you would have bought the ring. I would wait to see if Tiffany can get you something in your color range. You are paying quite an amount and should be able to get what you are looking. You shouldn't have to settle for whatever they have. Are they able to look for other diamonds besides the ones they have in inventory?
 
WangTa|1310154666|2964915 said:
Imdanny|1310152584|2964891 said:
No, it's not just you. They have increased, I think twice very recently. :rolleyes:

:lol: That seems counter-intuitive to me. Economy bad, people no jobs, less discretionary income, luxury good sales decrease? Obviously something wrong with this thought process!

you're right. let me offer some of my amateur economist views as I see it... it is counter-intuitive. the standard line, ie, the accepted common knowledge is that the "Asian and Indian markets are buying all of the stones!". I call that stretching the truth a bit. From what I understand, it is a 2 part equation...basic supply and demand. I believe they have emerging economies, but I've also been told by people in the rough business that they are supplying plenty of stones and that the stones aren't being cut (or are being cut and not released or sold). The reason for that...to drive the prices up. Remember, we're dealing with monopolies, possibly oligopolies, that are controlling most of these stones.

1. If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, then it leads to higher equilibrium price and quantity. (blame the "emerging markets")

2. If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, then it leads to lower equilibrium price and quantity. (what is naturally happening in the USA, would be good for us, but not good for diamond houses)

3. If supply increases and demand remains unchanged, then it leads to lower equilibrium price and higher quantity. (to combat this, supply has been cut)

4. If supply decreases and demand remains unchanged, then it leads to higher price and lower quantity. (my best guess as to what is closer to the what is happening world wide-maybe a slight increase in international demand, but no way it's overwhelming the way that we're told and lead to believe by people driving the prices.

This is no way is a shot at any retailer, as they're just a pawn in the diamond price game, and have to play regardless of price...because, you can't sell from an empty wagon. They might make out a bit during price increases, based on inventory that they already own, but that's business, and why cash on hand and inventory can be king.

Just my .02 anyway. I'd be open to discussion on it...it's just how I've seen it since watching this market for the past year or so.
 
How often is the Canadian dollar stronger than the US? NEVER! Inflation is on the horizon, and commodities are hot for that reason... The US market is just the last to jump on the band wagon with stock piling Gold and Diamonds like the Indian and Asian markets. They are taken advantage of the weak dollar, and buying our goods! I have watched the market for the last 9 years and I have never had such difficulty obtaining "Signature" quality diamonds.
 
Here it is guys - thanks to all for your help!

Novo.JPG
 
OMG :o its GORGEOUS :love: no really i mean its GORGEOUS :love: :bigsmile: more pics please!!
 
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