Clever slogan from the WarOnWomen

[kenny]

Wiki's article on the War on Women begins, "War on Women is an expression in United States politics used to describe certain Republican Party (GOP) policies and legislation as a wide-scale effort to restrict women's rights, especially reproductive rights."

 

[the_mother_thing]

Edited ... I totally misread this. My bad.

ETA: dammit, no I didn't misread it, but I deleted my post. GRRR

In summary, it was along the lines of "I'll think outside of your 'box' when I no longer have to fund it or give its owner preferential treatment because of its existence." Either we want to be treated equally, or we don't; we can't have it both ways, and as a woman, I don't feel the least bit oppressed, discriminated against, held back, etc. because of my genitalia. I'm so sick of hearing Hellary say how she should be the first woman president. I want the right person for the job, and I don't care what they have between their legs or if they're so lucky as to have both! But it's no different to elect her solely for her 'box' than it is to deny someone else a job because of their skin color or any other protected category.

So, in summary - be known for the person you are, for what you bring the world and the lives of those you know and even moreso to those you don't; not because you were born with a 'box'.

 

[azstonie]

Lol, I have often thought of that pictured slogan too!

 

[Bonfire]

Edited ... I totally misread this. My bad.

ETA: dammit, no I didn't misread it, but I deleted my post. GRRR

In summary, it was along the lines of "I'll think outside of your 'box' when I no longer have to fund it or give its owner preferential treatment because of its existence." Either we want to be treated equally, or we don't; we can't have it both ways, and as a woman, I don't feel the least bit oppressed, discriminated against, held back, etc. because of my genitalia. I'm so sick of hearing Hellary say how she should be the first woman president. I want the right person for the job, and I don't care what they have between their legs or if they're so lucky as to have both! But it's no different to elect her solely for her 'box' than it is to deny someone else a job because of their skin color or any other protected category.

So, in summary - be known for the person you are, for what you bring the world and the lives of those you know and even moreso to those you don't; not because you were born with a 'box'.

Wohoo! DITTO!

 

[msop04]

Edited ... I totally misread this. My bad.

ETA: dammit, no I didn't misread it, but I deleted my post. GRRR

In summary, it was along the lines of "I'll think outside of your 'box' when I no longer have to fund it or give its owner preferential treatment because of its existence." Either we want to be treated equally, or we don't; we can't have it both ways, and as a woman, I don't feel the least bit oppressed, discriminated against, held back, etc. because of my genitalia. I'm so sick of hearing Hellary say how she should be the first woman president. I want the right person for the job, and I don't care what they have between their legs or if they're so lucky as to have both! But it's no different to elect her solely for her 'box' than it is to deny someone else a job because of their skin color or any other protected category.

So, in summary - be known for the person you are, for what you bring the world and the lives of those you know and even moreso to those you don't; not because you were born with a 'box'.

Slow... Clap...

 

[kenny]

... to elect her solely for her 'box' ...

Who has stated that?

 

[partgypsy]

Well, up until recently, Viagra was covered under insurance, but birth control wasn't.

Women and men are biologically different, and to pretend otherwise, is stupid. Women have ovaries and a uterus, the ability to get pregnant, are the ones giving birth, and in the first few months of life the infant is most dependent on the mother (especially if breast feeding).

Legislation that reduces education for reproductive control, controls or limits access to both birth control and abortion (aka attack on planned parenthood), throws up roadblocks to people trying to obtain this legal procedure (for example in our state trying to pass a law doctors have to perform non-medically indicated vaginal ultrasounds who want abortions and send a copy of the images to the government! Not to be too graphic but that law means you are literally getting f*ked by the government) and provides little or no job or leave protections for women is yes a war on women. And to state, again, abortions are not funded or paid by the government.

The old joke is, if men could get pregnant the right to an abortion would be in the constitution is probably not far from the truth.
We are not asking for preferential treatment. We are asking not to be discriminated against and the government to get out of the business of trying to control women's bodies.

Jocoljen, I'm glad that you have never experienced discrimination. But just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I didn't think it would ever happen to me but it did.

 

[AGBF]

just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Some people put "+1" after seeing someone else write something like this with which they heartily agree, but I am from another generation. I was taught to use words rather than codes and emoties. So I will say that like ksinger (once again) I can only invoke the image of the disenfranchised women who for centuries could not even vote to protest that they were subject to corporal punishment by their husbands; that they could not own property; that they could not have custody of their children; that they could not have abortions even if they had been raped or their lives were in danger. They were discriminated against even if you were not. And many women in the United States are still subject to these same fates...even if you are not.

AGBF

 

[telephone89]

Does anyone watch "Last night tonight" by John oliver? He did a piece on abortions that expands into this issue, very enlightening imo.

And there was recently a post about someone wanting to pass a bill to make Men requesting Viagra from their Dr have a wife's signature. That would be ABSURD but BC/Abortions it's totally ok.

TBH I'm kind of tired of 'comfortable' (ie not wealthy) white folk saying discrimination doesn't exist. +1 to partgypsy, just because you personally don't deal with it doesn't mean others don't.

 

[Niel]

It's amazing to me that any woman can say she doesn't see oppression in her daily life.

You're either very lucky or not looking.

 

[Bonfire]

I hope Megyn Kelly takes Trump to task tonight at the debate. I'm sure she's loaded for bear, and I can't wait to watch her make him look like the baffon he is. Go get him Megyn!!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Who has stated that?

Well, there's only one person running for office that I know of who keeps touting her "being a woman" ... and no, I don't mean Carly Fiorina ... she too was tired of Hillary's "I am woman ... hear me roar all the way to the white house" nonsense.

Well, up until recently, Viagra was covered under insurance, but birth control wasn't.

Women and men are biologically different, and to pretend otherwise, is stupid. Women have ovaries and a uterus, the ability to get pregnant, are the ones giving birth, and in the first few months of life the infant is most dependent on the mother (especially if breast feeding).

Legislation that reduces education for reproductive control, controls or limits access to both birth control and abortion (aka attack on planned parenthood), throws up roadblocks to people trying to obtain this legal procedure (for example in our state trying to pass a law doctors have to perform non-medically indicated vaginal ultrasounds who want abortions and send a copy of the images to the government! Not to be too graphic but that law means you are literally getting f*ked by the government) and provides little or no job or leave protections for women is yes a war on women. And to state, again, abortions are not funded or paid by the government.

The old joke is, if men could get pregnant the right to an abortion would be in the constitution is probably not far from the truth.
We are not asking for preferential treatment. We are asking not to be discriminated against and the government to get out of the business of trying to control women's bodies.

Jocoljen, I'm glad that you have never experienced discrimination. But just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I didn't think it would ever happen to me but it did.

The bolded part is absolutely correct. Yet, there are so many things women (the collective) keep pushing for 'equality' on when - in fact - we are NOT equal in all ways. There are things especially in the physical realm that men are better equipped to do than woman, and vice versa. Also, I believe there are some general behavioral type traits (bear with me, I'm tired, having been up since 2 am) that we are better suited for than men. So again, either we ARE equal, or we're not. I don't see why - just like we do with different religions, ethnicities, cultures, etc., we can't just respect and appreciate each other FOR our individuality and differences and what we bring to the world ... even when it's not so convenient.

As for education about reproduction, come on. If people don't know/understand how babies are made by now, then having the government come in and legislate and provide education about it is just throwing money into a black hole. And I'm not saying "don't make the information available"; I just don't feel - in this day and age of the Internet and so much obviously legitimate information that is so easily accessible - that it's necessary for tax dollars to fund it. Hell, most major medical centers (e.g., Mayo and the like, you know ... places EVERYONE wants to get their medical care) have SOOO much information on their websites to help people understand various types of illnesses, conditions, etc. Even my doctor has suggested further reading on WebMD about some non-urgent/life threatening things. And then if they still have questions, well by golly Beaver, there's good ole Obamacare to help you go see a doctor and get more answers and information specific to just you, privately. But rest assured, I'm definitely NOT going to get into the discussion about whether abortion should/shouldn't be legal, etc. because that just ventures into a never ending back and forth. My point with my post is - don't be a hypocrite - if you don't want people all up in your 'box', stop inviting them in by waving your 'box' in others' faces when it just so happens to benefit you (collective 'you'; not 'you' PG).

TBH I'm kind of tired of 'comfortable' (ie not wealthy) white folk saying discrimination doesn't exist. +1 to partgypsy, just because you personally don't deal with it doesn't mean others don't.

I'm not saying it doesn't flat out exist; just that I have not seen it during my working career - ever. And I've worked in a LOT of different professional places; and 6 of the 7, they were not only managed by women, but women held most of the positions on those teams/in those offices and companies. And I'm not talking about Walmart or Fast Food ... I'm talking government, corporations, etc. Most of the doctors offices and practices I've been to ... women; lawyers - women; CEOs and C-level execs - women. In fact, I often wonder how long it'd be until a man complained of discrimination because the teams were so largely occupied by ... women.

Now, were women oppressed and 'kept in the kitchen' it happen 30, 40 and more years ago? Yes. But I feel we have overcome that, and things ARE largely a level playing ground now. And that's great. But today? I'd LOVE to hear about specific, direct-experience examples (not someone's second cousin's best friend's neighbor) who is legitimately "oppressed" today. I know of more men I've talked to who flat out were told (off the record of course) that the sole reason they WEREN'T hired for a job (mostly with the government) was because of two things - they were white, and they had a penis. Had they been any other ethnicity or even "a woman of any ethnicity", they'd have been hired without question. That we even have quotas and the like is so hypocritical to me. We say we shouldn't discriminate, but then we discriminate ... gotta punish those white men for all the years of hell they put the world through. As if most of the men in the working world/age today were even 'at fault' or to blame. That's like holding a grudge against me being white because of slavery ... something that hasn't existed since I've taken my first breath, and for which no member of my family (living or dead) was part of.

It's amazing to me that any woman can say she doesn't see oppression in her daily life.

You're either very lucky or not looking.

Well, I've not had blinders on, and considering I've been in 10+ car accidents, I'm CERTAINLY not lucky, so ... How are women today truly & legitimately oppressed? What can't they do that they should be able to do? What is NOT available to them today that should be? What opportunities are NOT open to women that should be? 50, 100 years ago, yes women were oppressed. Today ... sorry, I don't see it, I haven't heard about it (except when people *think* they should have something that they don't), and if there was mass oppression of women, I'm pretty sure CNN, MSNBC and Oprah would be highlighting it morning, noon and night to make a case for it. I feel like women from 'back in the day' would slap me if I said I was oppressed, given how far we have come.

Even 20 years ago, I had the pleasure of having met and facilitates interviews with (then) Capt. (Ret. Col) Martha McSally - the first female fighter pilot in combat, and even that was up for debate because there was another woman whom some thought preceded Martha's combat sorties by a couple decades, IIRC.

So please ... enlighten me on how oppressed we are as women. I wholeheartedly appreciate the efforts of those who paved the way so I could work where I want, get an education if I want, vote if I want, drive a car if I want, etc., but to claim "oppression" today, when women have more opportunities to achieve their dreams than ever before is just almost comical to me.




And yes, I say all of that as someone with ... a 'box'.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I hope Megyn Kelly takes Trump to task tonight at the debate. I'm sure she's loaded for bear, and I can't wait to watch her make him look like the baffon he is. Go get him Megyn!!

My dad and I have a friendly wager to see how long it takes for some snarky remark to be made one way or the other between those two. I think it'll happen within 5 mins of intros.

All his whining about her being tough on him ... what a wuss! She did her job, and he had to get all butt hurt.

 

[missy]

Well, up until recently, Viagra was covered under insurance, but birth control wasn't.

Women and men are biologically different, and to pretend otherwise, is stupid. Women have ovaries and a uterus, the ability to get pregnant, are the ones giving birth, and in the first few months of life the infant is most dependent on the mother (especially if breast feeding).

Legislation that reduces education for reproductive control, controls or limits access to both birth control and abortion (aka attack on planned parenthood), throws up roadblocks to people trying to obtain this legal procedure (for example in our state trying to pass a law doctors have to perform non-medically indicated vaginal ultrasounds who want abortions and send a copy of the images to the government! Not to be too graphic but that law means you are literally getting f*ked by the government) and provides little or no job or leave protections for women is yes a war on women. And to state, again, abortions are not funded or paid by the government.

The old joke is, if men could get pregnant the right to an abortion would be in the constitution is probably not far from the truth.
We are not asking for preferential treatment. We are asking not to be discriminated against and the government to get out of the business of trying to control women's bodies.

Jocoljen, I'm glad that you have never experienced discrimination. But just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I didn't think it would ever happen to me but it did.

HUGE ditto.

just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Some people put "+1" after seeing someone else write something like this with which they heartily agree, but I am from another generation. I was taught to use words rather than codes and emoties. So I will say that like ksinger (once again) I can only invoke the image of the disenfranchised women who for centuries could not even vote to protest that they were subject to corporal punishment by their husbands; that they could not own property; that they could not have custody of their children; that they could not have abortions even if they had been raped or their lives were in danger. They were discriminated against even if you were not. And many women in the United States are still subject to these same fates...even if you are not.

AGBF

Deb I won't plus one you but well I am doing that in my mind re your post OK?


It is unbelievable that in this century we still have not passed the Equal Rights Amendment. It's a travesty and the fact that we still don't have reproductive rights over our OWN bodies is also a crime.

 

[the_mother_thing]

It's a travesty and the fact that we still don't have reproductive rights over our OWN bodies is also a crime.

I am genuinely confused by this statement ... seriously. Maybe there is something I'm not aware of in this regard. What right do we not have when it comes to our reproductive rights/body? I can get an abortion if I want one; I can get BC if I want to take it; I can go be artificially inseminated and have a child on my own if I wanted; if my 'box' needs tending to by a doctor, there's no "Men Only" sign on any obgyn office I've been to. What exactly is it that I'm in the dark on not having a right to with my girl parts?

I am legitimately hard pressed to think of a single thing that - if I want or need for my medical well being - that I could not go out and get/do that is based on me being a woman.

 

[kenny]

... to elect her solely for her 'box' ...

Who has stated that?

Well, there's only one person running for office that I know of who keeps touting her "being a woman" ... and no, I don't mean Carly Fiorina ... she too was tired of Hillary's "I am woman ... hear me roar all the way to the white house" nonsense.

Here, let me fix your post for you ... "Nobody has stated, "elect her solely for her box. So I apologize for misspeaking."

 

[missy]

It's a travesty and the fact that we still don't have reproductive rights over our OWN bodies is also a crime.

I am genuinely confused by this statement ... seriously. Maybe there is something I'm not aware of in this regard. What right do we not have when it comes to our reproductive rights/body? I can get an abortion if I want one; I can get BC if I want to take it; I can go be artificially inseminated and have a child on my own if I wanted; if my 'box' needs tending to by a doctor, there's no "Men Only" sign on any obgyn office I've been to. What exactly is it that I'm in the dark on not having a right to with my girl parts?

I am legitimately hard pressed to think of a single thing that - if I want or need for my medical well being - that I could not go out and get/do that is based on me being a woman.

LOL I'm sorry JoCoJenn. I am so exhausted after a long and hard work day and I just popped onto PS for a few minutes and wrote that mistakenly. I meant to write that our reproductive rights are being threatened all the time. I feel Roe V Wade could definitely potentially be overturned at some point. And there is discrimination at so many levels. I am happy you don't experience it but I see it all the time. Women still earn less than men. I am not sure of the statistic (and I don't want to be like DF making them up LOL) but something like 70 cents on the dollar compared to men in the same position is in my head for some reason. And there are way more men CEOs, CFOs etc than women and I could go on and on but you get the point. Women are not yet IMO considered equal to men.

Honestly I agree completely with that joke about if men could get pregnant there would be no argument over men having the right to choose.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Here, let me fix your post for you ... "Nobody has stated, "elect me solely because of my box. So I apologize for misspeaking."

How 'bout I'll let you correct yourself when you understand the error of your ways, and re-read what I wrote.

I said:

But it's no different to elect her solely for her 'box' than it is to deny someone else a job ...

I did not state that SHE said to elect her because she has a box- I said it would be wrong to elect her solely because she has a box, meaning anyone who say they would vote for her simply because she is a woman.


I accept your apology ... or your octavia ... you decide.

 

[missy]

Just want to add in many many big (and small) businesses it really still is an "old boys club/network". Sad but true.
We are getting there and achieving equality but slowly. Just like racial equality and same sex equality etc.

Kenny, feel free to insult me anytime if the apology includes your Octavia.

 

[the_mother_thing]

LOL I'm sorry JoCoJenn. I am so exhausted after a long and hard work day and I just popped onto PS for a few minutes and wrote that mistakenly. I meant to write that our reproductive rights are being threatened all the time. I feel Roe V Wade could definitely potentially be overturned at some point. And there is discrimination at so many levels. I am happy you don't experience it but I see it all the time. Women still earn less than men. I am not sure of the statistic (and I don't want to be like DF making them up LOL) but something like 70 cents on the dollar compared to men in the same position is in my head for some reason. And there are way more men CEOs, CFOs etc than women and I could go on and on but you get the point. Women are not yet IMO considered equal to men.

Honestly I agree completely with that joke about if men could get pregnant there would be no argument over men having the right to choose.

It's okay; I'm in the same boat ... been up since 2 a.m., and hoping to make it through the Clown show here in 15 mins.

I guess perhaps I am lucky to some degree because I really and truly have not seen those things in the places I've worked or patronized in my adult/working years. And I've lived and worked all over this country.

Have a good night, Missy. And thanks for your response. I appreciate it, as do the perspectives of others who do see and experience things differently than I do.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Kenny, feel free to insult me anytime if the apology includes your Octavia.

Oh no ... get in line, missy - missy ... he wronged me first!

 

[missy]

LOL I'm sorry JoCoJenn. I am so exhausted after a long and hard work day and I just popped onto PS for a few minutes and wrote that mistakenly. I meant to write that our reproductive rights are being threatened all the time. I feel Roe V Wade could definitely potentially be overturned at some point. And there is discrimination at so many levels. I am happy you don't experience it but I see it all the time. Women still earn less than men. I am not sure of the statistic (and I don't want to be like DF making them up LOL) but something like 70 cents on the dollar compared to men in the same position is in my head for some reason. And there are way more men CEOs, CFOs etc than women and I could go on and on but you get the point. Women are not yet IMO considered equal to men.

Honestly I agree completely with that joke about if men could get pregnant there would be no argument over men having the right to choose.

It's okay; I'm in the same boat ... been up since 2 a.m., and hoping to make it through the Clown show here in 15 mins.

I guess perhaps I am lucky to some degree because I really and truly have not seen those things in the places I've worked or patronized in my adult/working years. And I've lived and worked all over this country.

Have a good night, Missy. And thanks for your response. I appreciate it, as do the perspectives of others who do see and experience things differently than I do.

Thanks JoCoJenn, and just so you know we do agree on some things. Also want to add if I may I just asked my dh about the "old boys network" and if he thinks it still exists. I asked him because he has been in big business for most of his career. And his answer is it yes, it absolutely exists.

I hope you have a good night's sleep. We both need it!

I am intrigued by what the Clown show is though...

Edited for the typo I made when typing with bleary tired eyes...

 

[missy]

Kenny, feel free to insult me anytime if the apology includes your Octavia.

Oh no ... get in line, missy - missy ... he wronged me first!

Awww OK I cannot believe I am saying this but you are right. Fair's fair. Kenny you may hand it over to JoCoJenn.
You owe me one JoCo.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I am intrigued by what the Clown show is though...

The GOP debate of course.

Nighty night!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Annnd Chump just made reference to his penis in the debate ... I think I am just going to submit myself to one of those 8-year cryogenic studies, and maybe when I wake up, it'll all have just been a nightmare.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Alright Kenny ... I'm waiting ... if it helps, I'll settle for just a really droolworthy picture of your Octavia.

 

[Niel]

Our reproductivr rights are constantly challenged.

States closed locations you can get abortions, driving hours to and from a clinic, some causing you to stay the night to preform the procedure. Women who do not have the money to take off work, pay for sitters, etcetera are put in a difficult position

Starts are lowering the acceptable length of pregnancy before one is allowed to get an abortion. Women may not even know they are pregnant before they reach this deadline. Or, are forced to accomplish the difficulty outlined in the previous paragraph in a short timeframe.

You're required to wait 24 hours in some areas. Forcing someone to be put through emotional punishment because they choose a perfectly legal procedure.

In some states you have to get an unnecessary vaginal ultrasound.

You have to get parental concent. 38 States require parental involvement in a minors choice to end her pregnancy. Now one, and sometimes both parents get a decision in the matter.

 

[Niel]

It's interesting that about 80% of Americans think abortion is acceptable in some way. Meaning, at least in some circumstances, they would not condone it. This also includes the majority of pro choice individuals. I think it's interesting as so many pro life advocates call it murder, yet condone it in the right circumstance.

 

[Jambalaya]

Niel is correct about our reproductive rights being constantly challenged. And it's interesting how out-of-step the US is with the rest of the developed world on these issues. The medically-unnecessary vaginal ultrasound thing is horrendous. No other developed country has a government which does this to women. We are so behind Europe, Australia, Canada etc. in some very key ways. Which is why they laugh at us.

On the subject of sex discrimination, I think it can be very subtle. Another very tired one here tonight, so I'm not prone to going into details, but as a petite woman (before I put on weight) and previously as a much younger woman, I had a real fight on my hands to be taken seriously in the workplace. The discrimination can be not so much in what happens to you, but what doesn't happen. Lower pay, ridiculously high workload compared to the men, far fewer resources allocated to you to help you cope with said workload, lack of plum projects, ideas squashed which are objectively excellent...There are many ways of discriminating against someone while circumventing the law, as women, gay people, and people of Latin and African heritage well know.

 

[Calliecake]

A few days ago there was a Republican State Representative (Idaho) who said a woman who is raped cannot become pregnant. His name is Pete Nielsen. Another example of War on Women. Who the hell votes for these idiots!