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the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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To everyone else who posted a reply to me directly, no offense, but this is a horse that doesn't even have a hide left it's been so beaten to death. :knockout:

As I noted in my last reply to Missy (to whom I am very appreciative of the respectful discussion and sharing of viewpoints), it's not my goal to change anyone's mind or opinion on things; only share (as honestly and respectfully AND without intent to insult or offend someone else) my views and opinions on things ... just like you all have done with your opinions and views.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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missy|1457108364|3999734 said:
Awww cute puppy. :love:

The thing is, just because *you* are a responsible gun owner doesn't mean everyone will be. And therein lies one of the problems. We need to protect the safety of all.

And just because *you* don't see discrimination doesn't mean it doesn't exist. While I respect your right to your personal views perhaps you can see just for a moment where they may be flawed in at least some way.

This is where I get confused by that sort of view. It's judging people based on something they have not done or are NOT guilty of (assuming they will be negligent, commit a crime, etc.). That - in my eyes - is flawed and hypocritical. People are FAR more negligent when it comes to consuming alcohol and causing harm than gun owners are when it comes to responsibility. People are FAR more negligent with their vehicles ... prescription drugs ... the list goes on and on. And there ARE restrictions in place, there ARE laws in place, and in the few cases where they are broken, there is a consequence.

Focus on the criminal and those who HAVE demonstrated a disregard for the law and others' safey; not the innocent, responsible citizen who is merely practicing their right.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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JoCoJenn|1457109286|3999749 said:
missy|1457108364|3999734 said:
Awww cute puppy. :love:

The thing is, just because *you* are a responsible gun owner doesn't mean everyone will be. And therein lies one of the problems. We need to protect the safety of all.

And just because *you* don't see discrimination doesn't mean it doesn't exist. While I respect your right to your personal views perhaps you can see just for a moment where they may be flawed in at least some way.

This is where I get confused by that sort of view. It's judging people based on something they have not done or are NOT guilty of (assuming they will be negligent, commit a crime, etc.). That - in my eyes - is flawed and hypocritical. People are FAR more negligent when it comes to consuming alcohol and causing harm than gun owners are when it comes to responsibility. People are FAR more negligent with their vehicles ... prescription drugs ... the list goes on and on. And there ARE restrictions in place, there ARE laws in place, and in the few cases where they are broken, there is a consequence.

Focus on the criminal and those who HAVE demonstrated a disregard for the law and others' safey; not the innocent, responsible citizen who is merely practicing their right.

Once again IDK the statistics but I am fairly certain that the USA has the greatest murders/crime via gun use of any country. Even with *you* being a responsible gun owner. ::)
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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missy|1457109497|3999751 said:
Once again IDK the statistics but I am fairly certain that the USA has the greatest murders/crime via gun use of any country. Even with *you* being a responsible gun owner. ::)

I'm not a major stat researcher myself, but as has been pointed out before, there are far too many variables that differ between our country and others to make like/fair comparisons when it comes to gun related crime, such as borders that are shared, the activities of those border countries, drugs/gang stats, etc.
 

packrat

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If we want people to leave us alone and make our own decisions about everything, we need to deal w/what happens after we make our decisions. Because like it or not, pretty much everything we do has a ripple effect and makes an impact on others. It's your right to go out and have 27 kids by 27 different people. By all means, go ahead. Except it's not my right to have to take care of you and the other person and your 27 kids. It's not my privilege either. It's yours. It's not my fault you spent your 20's getting drunk and doing drugs, which was your right,and now have issues that mean you can't work.

If we're adult enough to do what we want w/our genitalia, we're adult enough to take care of all of it. We should be. If we aren't then...we're not adult enough to do what we please. Most of the time I feel like there's a lot of foot stomping and crossed arms and "hmph" you can't tell me what to do. Well, no, I can't tell you what to do, you are correct. But stop acting like you're four and act like an adult. If I want people to stay out of my vaginal cavity, and I feel I can do what I please w/said cavity, then it would be my responsibility full stop. Not my responsibility until I can't handle it anymore or until something happens and then I think oh shit now what?

We do have restrictions in our lives and that's not always a bad thing. We have seatbelt laws, speed limits, those all have an impact on other people. I really think we need to get over this collective thought that we are above all but only when we want to be and then it's ok to demand help.

A waiting period to decide if you really want an abortion, or a note from a parent? Well, I had to have a note from a parent when I was *eighteen*, and legally an adult, and didn't even live at HOME, when I missed a day of school. When you're getting your drivers permit/license, you need to drive a certain amount of hours w/an adult. Parents have to sign waivers to take Tylenol at school but...it's ok to get an abortion w/out their knowledge? I don't agree. A waiting period isn't a big deal-what is it, 24 hours or whatever, just a way to make sure you want to do it? Maybe some women do it and regret it-that's a simple way to try and get past that for those that may regret it. I don't see it as a punishment. Unless your life is being threatened right that very second, is it really a big deal to wait? It would be a big decision, to me, terminating a pregnancy, and I'd want to make sure it was what I wanted to do and I wasn't bending to pressure from a guy who didn't want it or from whatever else, that it was my decision and my decision alone. It shouldn't be made out to be like a drive thru or instant gratification of everything we want. You get frustrated when your netflix won't stream instantly, not when you can't terminate a pregnancy right that very second.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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packrat

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JoCoJenn|1457111395|3999770 said:
missy|1457109497|3999751 said:
Once again IDK the statistics but I am fairly certain that the USA has the greatest murders/crime via gun use of any country. Even with *you* being a responsible gun owner. ::)

I'm not a major stat researcher myself, but as has been pointed out before, there are far too many variables that differ between our country and others to make like/fair comparisons when it comes to gun related crime, such as borders that are shared, the activities of those border countries, drugs/gang stats, etc.


Yes. And I think we're a country more along the lines of...well, nobody is responsible for anything of their own doing. Not that I think people should be caned in the public square till they pass out for tossing a tootsie roll wrapper onto the sidewalk but jeezly crow, people..We as a nation are a bunch of whine baby pee pants, I want I want I want, and what I want is my way all the time no matter what, I want instant gratification of my every whim and everyone should be nice and walk on egg shells and not make me sad or make me think or make me feel anything remotely unperfect, and then if shit goes south I want someone to take care of it for me and I want the moon but I want it to be handed to me on a silver platter and I want what every other country has, no matter how hard they work for it or how much effort they put into having it. Reward me for being special and being me b/c I'm me. If other countries have their shit together it's b/c they put effort into it-not b/c they allow their citizens to continually **** it up.
 

liaerfbv

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packrat|1457116208|3999811 said:
If we want people to leave us alone and make our own decisions about everything, we need to deal w/what happens after we make our decisions. Because like it or not, pretty much everything we do has a ripple effect and makes an impact on others. It's your right to go out and have 27 kids by 27 different people. By all means, go ahead. Except it's not my right to have to take care of you and the other person and your 27 kids. It's not my privilege either. It's yours. It's not my fault you spent your 20's getting drunk and doing drugs, which was your right,and now have issues that mean you can't work.

If we're adult enough to do what we want w/our genitalia, we're adult enough to take care of all of it. We should be. If we aren't then...we're not adult enough to do what we please. Most of the time I feel like there's a lot of foot stomping and crossed arms and "hmph" you can't tell me what to do. Well, no, I can't tell you what to do, you are correct. But stop acting like your four and act like an adult. If I want people to stay out of my vaginal cavity, and I feel I can do what I please w/said cavity, then it would be my responsibility full stop. Not my responsibility until I can't handle it anymore or until something happens and then I think oh shit now what?

We do have restrictions in our lives and that's not always a bad thing. We have seatbelt laws, speed limits, those all have an impact on other people. I really think we need to get over this collective thought that we are above all but only when we want to be and then it's ok to demand help.

A waiting period to decide if you really want an abortion, or a note from a parent? Well, I had to have a note from a parent when I was *eighteen*, and legally an adult, and didn't even live at HOME, when I missed a day of school. When you're getting your drivers permit/license, you need to drive a certain amount of hours w/an adult. Parents have to sign waivers to take Tylenol at school but...it's ok to get an abortion w/out their knowledge? I don't agree. A waiting period isn't a big deal-what is it, 24 hours or whatever, just a way to make sure you want to do it? Maybe some women do it and regret it-that's a simple way to try and get past that for those that may regret it. I don't see it as a punishment. Unless your life is being threatened right that very second, is it really a big deal to wait? It would be a big decision, to me, terminating a pregnancy, and I'd want to make sure it was what I wanted to do and I wasn't bending to pressure from a guy who didn't want it or from whatever else, that it was my decision and my decision alone. It shouldn't be made out to be like a drive thru or instant gratification of everything we want. You get frustrated when your netflix won't stream instantly, not when you can't terminate a pregnancy right that very second.

I hear what you're saying and in a perfect world that all sounds great. But in the real world.... let's say I have 4 kids in my stable nuclear married family. My husband is killed, and I can't support my family on my own. I need welfare. Are you saying that because I at some point in my life may not be able to take full responsibility for "what comes out of my vagina" - I shouldn't have had 4 kids? Why are the 4 kids I had in my nuclear family any different than 4 kids another woman had with 4 different men? It's not MY judgement to make. If someone doesn't have money to feed their family, I would hope that our country is compassionate enough to support them for a short time. Yes, people take advantage of the system. But I believe that's a very small amount of abuse that is worth it to keep more people off the street and children from going hungry.

And as for notifying parents of abortion... your frame of reference is not taking into account different situations. Yes, for some women (particularly for example in Texas who have to drive HOURS to get safe health care) a waiting period is HARMFUL. Having to have a parent sign off may be HARMFUL. It's not about instant gratification, it's about making sure that women are ABLE to make the best choice FOR THEMSELVES at the time they need to make that choice. What I think, what you think, what the government thinks DOESN'T MATTER.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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In my mind if you're one of the 80% that support abortion in some instances, then you're pro choice. It boils down to a situation where you feel its better for the mother to not carry a pregnancy to term.

And that's what everyone is doing. The subtleties lie in what situation warrants the termination. You cant make that decision for someone else.

If it's unfortunate but acceptable to abort to save the mother's life, then you find it acceptable. The act is the same at the end of the day, regardless of what got her to the doctor.
 
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