Choosing a Sapphire Ain't Easy..............

[Sapphire1]

Hi.
I'm of course new to this Forum, but I've been intently reading the great info you guys have on Sapphire for the past couple of weeks, and figure I know just enough now to lay down the specifics, and ask a few questions. In addition, I'll post a couple of pics as soon as I read how to, and give my opinion on the stone, and of course would appreciate any and all feedback to the pics, my observations and questions.

I am looking for a Sapphire for myself to make a ring around.
The specs of the stone I'm looking for are:
- Blue Unheated, Untreated and U-everything else.
- diameter of approx. 8-9mm
- depth % of 65-80%?
- Medium-Medium Dark Tone
- Vivid saturation

I went into take a look at several stones the past couple of days at the NSC. I know there are many Pros and Cons about this company on the Web, But so far my experiences have been positive.
The added plus is that I'm able to go into the showroom and look at all the stones I would like.
I'm in the business of having Jewelry made for others, which consists of 99% Diamonds, and .5% Black Opal (currently not active with Black Opal anymore),But I am lacking in the field of Sapphire, But I'm learning fast

I have the following stone in my possession, which NSC has given me ample time to evaluate. (Pics to follow)

2.66ct
8.59x8.43x5.09mm (60.4% D)
Mixed Brilliant
Clarity IF, VVS1
Intense (looks Vivid)
No Heat, No Enhancement (GIA Cert)

I looked at the stone a while in house, and decided to take it with me (after putting down a full deposit of course, $1900/ct)
It appeared dark, and lit up under certain lighting, But as I have had it with me throughout the day, it seems like it needs just the right light to show some color, which I'm not to thrilled with. It appears Dark, But not Black.
While I was looking at this stone in house, I saw another stone which is 3.15ct, 8mm Diameter, and has a 74% D @ $2700/ct.

The 2.66ct stone has no Windows, and no extinction which I can see. It has no zoning, and is Intense/Vivid in saturation. The Tone appears to be Dark-Very Dark. Once I post the pics, you'll see that the live of the stone doesn't pop over the whole stone, and that the table and around the girdle remains dark, while it appears that only the Crown shows scintillation under light.
This is most likely attributable to the 60.4%D. But faces up larger because of this.

In comparison, the 3.15ct stone (GIA Cert re: No Heat or Enhancement) has a Medium-Medium Dark Tone (I call it Electric Blue. Very pretty imo at all angles and in all light in house. No pics. Sorry), and the entire stone shows the Scintillation and Color tone that the 2.66ct stone shows in it's Crown in the pic. (I'll get those pics posted)It's just that $2700/ct @3.13 is a little much for me.

My questions and observations are:
- is the 2.66ct stone having the issues? as I've explained them because of the 60.4% D?
- is the 3.15ct stone the right proportions as it relates to it's cut, and not considered cut on the heavy side, as I don't want to pay a lot of money for excess material which may not be needed. But I have a feeling that I'll need to spend money on a heavier cut if I want the stone to 'Pop' so to speak.
- I like the 8.5mm Round as it looks face up regarding size, compared to the smaller 7.9mm stone, as you can see the difference. But maybe in a setting, because the 3.15 stone 'Pops' it will face up visually larger than it's measurement on paper.
- when I lay the 2.66ct stone on white paper face down, even though I can't read any lettering, the stone shows very light from the culet downward towards the crown, even though the stone's Tone is Dark-Very Dark.
- when I lay the 3.15ct stone on white paper, the color Tone (or is is it the saturation? is very blue, but not very dark. I'm unclear what causes this effect difference in the 2 stones.

That's about it.
I appreciate any and all feedback.
Sorry to be long winded, But I like to be as meticulous with my descriptions as I can so that you guys and girls have a good factual base to give me your opinions.

I just installed Dropbox onto my PC, and I have to wait for all my pics to Upload.
I'll get those pics up as soon as i can.

Pic Update:
The lighting is not that good, as I used the flash from my S3, and the light from a 5500K LED, but had to hit the stone at an angle, instead of top down, but i think you'll get an idea.

TIA.....

 

[chrono]

You've certainly be doing some research and I applaud your efforts. You are on the right track to buying a very beautiful sapphire. From the description of what you are looking for, expect it to take some time coupled with a healthy budget.

Stone 1: 2.66 ct sapphire
60% depth is on the shallower end but could be nice and gives you a bigger looking stone. Forget about IF and VVS clarity; eye clean from 6 inches away is the standard for most coloured stones. The sapphire is highly unlikely to be vivid based on your very thorough write up. A vivid stone is never overdark. All sapphires do best outdoors with very few remaining attractive indoors. The challenge as you've realized is to get one that looks equally beautiful both indoors and outdoors. When the tone is dark to very dark, saturation becomes very difficult to show through, with the stone likely to show large areas of darkness or extinction. This darkness you observed is not due to the shallow cut but is inherent to the sapphire rough itself. In order to lighten up the tone, the sapphire was cut to be as shallow as possible, thereby shortening the path light must travel. More concentrated mass means darker tone, less material equates to a lighter tone. This is why you saw what you saw when looking at the sapphire.

Stone 2: 3.15 ct sapphire
Very steep pricing at nearly $3k/ct which, frankly, is ridiculous.

1. Yes, the 2.66 ct sapphire has issues but not likely to be due to the shallowness. The material is too dark to begin with.
2. The 3.15 ct is a bit on the deep side and so faces up smaller than it should.

Focus on the colour first, then narrow it down by eliminating those that are overly deep or shallow. I would not purposely seek out a stone by depth alone. Saturation is heavily dependent on the sapphire rough itself. It either naturally pops or it doesn't. A good cut can only play up what it has to work with. If the material is already strongly saturated, being well cut will help concentrate the colour better while adding brilliancy. If the material is lacking, there is only so much an excellent cut can do to improve its appearance.

 

[chrono]

My post got too long and had to be broken into 2 sections.

What you observed is the reason why colour grading is never done upside down on coloured gemstones.
1. Cuts are also done to help concentrate colour so some sapphires show much lighter areas mixed in with darker areas when viewed from the side or back. This is called colour zoning. Face up colour is what counts.
2. The greater the mass, the darker the colour. Often, the culet will be of lighter tone than the main body.

I think the 2.66 ct sapphire has other cut issues too, causing that darkness at the girdle and right under the table.

 

[Sapphire1]

@ Chrono:

Thank you very much for your quick response

I mentioned to the sales girl that it would be great to:
- have a stone with the proportions of the 2.66, but with the tone properties of the 3.15, But I didn't know if that was possible.
I mentioned that I didn't like paying money for heavy cuts if they're not necessary.
I like the 8.6mm face of the 2.66 but don't know if that is doable in the Tone I'm looking for.
From what I've been reading, unlike a Diamond whose depth % 0f 60.1 is what one of the attributes of an Excellent stone, with Sapphire, 65-80% is what is necessary for an excellent stone.
Would this be incorrect, because as you say, if it is the rough that counts, than I'll keep looking for:
- an 8.5mm Round weighing approx. 2.50-3.00ct, But I would think that the per carat price would increase, considering it would face up larger than a heavier stone, but keeping the Color tone of the Deeper cut stone.
That being said, the 3.15ct* stone would appear to be a choice worth considering.

* I errored in the per carat price of the 3.15ct stone. It would be approx. $2600/ct.
From my research thus far, $2600 for a stone with the Tone as described appears to be a good deal.
I only say this because:
- I've had a Jeweler I know tell me he can get me a stone with my description for approx $6m-$7m per carat!! YOWSA!!
- Another Seller told me I'd pay about $3m/ct for the Stone I'm describing.

Whichever stone I choose with a GIA cert, I'd have some prominent Gemologists I know review the stone for me.
I do feel that the 2.66ct is too dark (the in house cert said Intense, not Vivid, although the sales person though it was closer to a Vivid), and that when I first saw the 3.15 amongst (7) stones in the tray, the 3.15ct was the One! Although out of my budget,
But it looks like that would be about the price I'd have to pay to get the stone I want.
The thing is, I know that it is the color that appeals to oneself, and not necessarily is that the color that has the most value.
But in Life usually the thing that is most appealing is sometimes the most expensive, compared to the rest.

Addition:

I just saw your Part 2
Thanks for your explanation regarding color top down.
The pic I previously attached shows the dark parts darker than they are, But those parts are still darker.
Yes, I was curious as to why it is darker under the table and around the girdle.


My Buddy's eye (the blue part) in the pic I just attached shows the Tone of the 3.15ct stone, without the slight purplish hue.
The 3.15ct stone is an Electric Blue.

 

[chrono]

You can definitely get a sapphire with a medium to medium dark tone with intense to vivid saturation that is also well cut. It is a matter of time and money. Pricing in regular stores, as you've seen is extremely high. I've seen others on PS pay almost half per ct of the NSC price for the same specifications from other highly recommended lapidaries. In terms of cut, depth does not tell the full picture. Due to various designs and etc, the cut is rarely consistent across the board. I would look at the stone as a whole with less focus on depth unless it is overly deep. With cut, there is consideration of symmetry, extinction, windowing, off centered culet, overly deep and overly shallow, flat or low crown, wavy or overthick or overthin girdle and etc. Observe the sapphire is as many lighting situations as possible; indoors, fluorescent, halogen and incandescent. All are going to shift and give a different look and colour.

 

[LD]

Hi.
I am looking for a Sapphire for myself to make a ring around.
The specs of the stone I'm looking for are:
- Blue Unheated, Untreated and U-everything else.
- diameter of approx. 8-9mm
- depth % of 65-80%?
- Medium-Medium Dark Tone
- Vivid saturation

I have the following stone in my possession, which NSC has given me ample time to evaluate. (Pics to follow)

2.66ct It appeared dark, and lit up under certain lighting, But as I have had it with me throughout the day, it seems like it needs just the right light to show some color, which I'm not to thrilled with. It appears Dark, But not Black. The Tone appears to be Dark-Very Dark. The table and around the girdle remains dark, while it appears that only the Crown shows scintillation under light.

In comparison, the 3.15ct stone (GIA Cert re: No Heat or Enhancement) has a Medium-Medium Dark Tone (I call it Electric Blue. Very pretty imo at all angles and in all light in house. No pics. Sorry), and the entire stone shows the Scintillation and Color tone It's just that $2700/ct @3.13 is a little much for me.

I've cropped your original post so I can refer to it easier.

Why are you concerned about depth? I've been collecting stones for years and have never been this specific because although measurements are great with diamonds, for coloured stones, forget it! Use your eyes! In any event, you can see from what you've posted (and how you've described them) that the performance is not the best!

2.66ct - rule it out for all the reasons you've mentioned. The photo shows a gem that has cut issues as you only have colour in the centre. This is ot a good look!
3.15ct - sounds better and is priced accordingly but without photos it's very difficult to tell.

If you're looking for an unheated/untreated blue sapphire with very specific depth angles you're going to either have to pay if something is expensive OR you need to forget depth which will open up your market.

I also wouldn't buy from NSC because they do not have the best stones, have shoddy sales practices and are typically highly priced. Having said that, that's not the reason for my feedback above which I would give irrespective of the vendor. If you forget about depth and concentrate on colour I would suggest you speak to any of the lapidaries listed on the recommended vendors thread that is a sticky in this part of the forum.

 

[Sapphire1]

You can definitely get a sapphire with a medium to medium dark tone with intense to vivid saturation that is also well cut. It is a matter of time and money. Pricing in regular stores, as you've seen is extremely high. I've seen others on PS pay almost half per ct of the NSC price for the same specifications from other highly recommended lapidaries. In terms of cut, depth does not tell the full picture. Due to various designs and etc, the cut is rarely consistent across the board. I would look at the stone as a whole with less focus on depth unless it is overly deep. With cut, there is consideration of symmetry, extinction, windowing, off centered culet, overly deep and overly shallow, flat or low crown, wavy or overthick or overthin girdle and etc. Observe the sapphire is as many lighting situations as possible; indoors, fluorescent, halogen and incandescent. All are going to shift and give a different look and colour.

I only mentioned Depth as from my research, almost everywhere did it mention that unlike a Diamond, the ideal depth % of a Sapphire is 65-80%, in addition to other qualities of a fine stone.
But as of now, I'll forget about Depth from the feedback I'm getting, as I personally do not want to pay for excess material which is not necessary to obtain a Fine Sapphire.
I instinctively and visually knew that the 2.66 stone wasn't it, but I talked myself into it possibly being the one, and at least my holding onto it for up to 14 days, I'd at least be able to tell 100% by seeing it under different light conditions, although I did bring it out into the Sun on the terrace at NSC, and was having a hard time seeing the color all throughout the stone.
I don't have pics of the 3.15 in hand, and even though the color and other factors looked great, there were 2 things that bothered me;
- it's Diameter was 7.98mm, which I thought is necessary because you need a deeper cut on a quality stone, so therefore the weight is heavier with a smaller face (of course I've recently through that falsehood out the window.
- the per carat price of $2700 or so seemed high.

The thing is that I saw about 4 Electric Blue stones similar to the 3.15, and but they were all a touch lighter, and the 3.15 was perfect in my eyes. Some of the others has a Depth % of more than 74%, up to 83%. I'm just staying this as a comparison of the stones I looked at.
But again, I'm not going to pay for the deep cut when now I know it is NOT a prerequisite to a Stone with the attributes I'm looking for.
Sooo.....
I'm looking for a;
Sapphire
No Heat, No Treatments, etc.
8.5-9mm Round
If I could afford a 10mm, that size would perfect. depending on price per carat, which will be part of what dictates purchasing a 10mm Stone.
That being said, I won't forgoe Quality for Size.
So the 8.5mm stone of high quality will be my first choice over a 10mm stone of less quality.
*Depth doesn't matter as long as the Stone is Cut well Medium - Medium Dark Tone
Intense - Vivid saturation

Again, I very much appreciate your feedback, as it is helping me enormously to purchase the Right stone.
Thank you

 

[Sapphire1]

@ LD
Thank you for your input.
Please see me response to Chrono.
Depth? What Depth lol!

I did contact Simply Sapphires the other day with my criteria, and was responded to very quickly.
For an untreated stone with my criteria, the price would be approximately $3000/ct.
The stone would have to be sourced.
I did mention the Depth requirement (since forgotten about) to John, but I don't think that would have affected the approximate per carat price given to me.
It was looking like I'd have to pay approx. 2500-3000/ct for a Stone with the Qualities I'm looking for, although the total cost will be less because I don't need to have a deeply cut stone.
Btw, even though NSC may be higher priced than others, I am getting a trade discount in addition to a cash discount which goes bring the per carat cost down.
That being said, I don't want to pay for excess weight now that I know a deep cut is Not a prerequisite to a Fine Stone.

It does appear that the proportions of the 2.66ct stone I currently have in hand are pretty spot on regarding the Diameter, depth of 60.4% and weight.
I know the depth doesn't matter, to a point.
At 2.66ct with an 8.6mm Diameter, this looks like a good approximate reference to what I'm looking for in an Ideal stone as it pertains to the size and weight.

 

[LD]

@ LD
Thank you for your input.
Please see me response to Chrono.
Depth? What Depth lol!

I did contact Simply Sapphires the other day with my criteria, and was responded to very quickly.
For an untreated stone with my criteria, the price would be approximately $3000/ct.
The stone would have to be sourced.
I did mention the Depth requirement (since forgotten about) to John, but I don't think that would have affected the approximate per carat price given to me.
It was looking like I'd have to pay approx. 2500-3000/ct for a Stone with the Qualities I'm looking for, although the total cost will be less because I don't need to have a deeply cut stone.
Btw, even though NSC may be higher priced than others, I am getting a trade discount in addition to a cash discount which goes bring the per carat cost down.
That being said, I don't want to pay for excess weight now that I know a deep cut is Not a prerequisite to a Fine Stone.

It does appear that the proportions of the 2.66ct stone I currently have in hand are pretty spot on regarding the Diameter, depth of 60.4% and weight.
I know the depth doesn't matter, to a point.
At 2.66ct with an 8.6mm Diameter, this looks like a good approximate reference to what I'm looking for in an Ideal stone as it pertains to the size and weight.

Ok - a couple of things ........ if you're in the Trade you must declare that, otherwise you're not complying with forum regulations. Just thought you might want to know! I think, if you go into your user profile, you can change to Trade status.

Next - the $3,000 per carat is highly subjective. You can pay much much more or much much less for top quality. It depends where you buy and how lucky (or unlucky) you are!

Lastly - and I'm going to be brutally honest here as you're not buying the stone for yourself - that 2.66ct may have everything you want BUT its a lousy sapphire! So if I were you, I wouldn't base anything on it.

I would buy from John at SimplySapphires any time - he is honest and trustworthy. He gets some fine stones and some less fine (but that's the case with all vendors). I would buy from him rather than NSC and have made my feelings about NSC in my above post. I would urge you to take some time and search for NSC on here - look at their posts and that will help you make a judgement about their business practices. I will say no more on that subject.

Now that you're not restricted to depth (thank goodness!) it's worth contacting a few more of those on the vendor's list I mentioned previously. Also, please stay away from descriptors such as neon, electric etc. Get a photo of the colour you want and send that to all the vendors - that speaks volumes and is much better than words!

 

[Sapphire1]

@ LD
Thank you for your input.
Please see me response to Chrono.
Depth? What Depth lol!

I did contact Simply Sapphires the other day with my criteria, and was responded to very quickly.
For an untreated stone with my criteria, the price would be approximately $3000/ct.
The stone would have to be sourced.
I did mention the Depth requirement (since forgotten about) to John, but I don't think that would have affected the approximate per carat price given to me.
It was looking like I'd have to pay approx. 2500-3000/ct for a Stone with the Qualities I'm looking for, although the total cost will be less because I don't need to have a deeply cut stone.
Btw, even though NSC may be higher priced than others, I am getting a trade discount in addition to a cash discount which goes bring the per carat cost down.
That being said, I don't want to pay for excess weight now that I know a deep cut is Not a prerequisite to a Fine Stone.

It does appear that the proportions of the 2.66ct stone I currently have in hand are pretty spot on regarding the Diameter, depth of 60.4% and weight.
I know the depth doesn't matter, to a point.
At 2.66ct with an 8.6mm Diameter, this looks like a good approximate reference to what I'm looking for in an Ideal stone as it pertains to the size and weight.

For clarification, I'll respond to your comments individually:

Ok - a couple of things ........ if you're in the Trade you must declare that, otherwise you're not complying with forum regulations. Just thought you might want to know! I think, if you go into your user profile, you can change to Trade status.

Hi. Please see my 1st post where I mentioned I have jewelry made for others:
"I'm in the business of having Jewelry made for others, which consists of 99% Diamonds, and .5% Black Opal (currently not active with Black Opal anymore),But I am lacking in the field of Sapphire, But I'm learning fast "

I don't make my living in the jewelry business (hobby, no money made; Family, a few friends and myself)) as I'm in Lighting, Telecommunications and Security for decades. Many of my customers are on 47th St. But if I need to change my status, please let me know.

Next - the $3,000 per carat is highly subjective. You can pay much much more or much much less for top quality. It depends where you buy and how lucky (or unlucky) you are!

Lastly - and I'm going to be brutally honest here as you're not buying the stone for yourself - that 2.66ct may have everything you want BUT its a lousy sapphire! So if I were you, I wouldn't base anything on it.

For clarification, The ring I am making IS for myself
That being said, i appreciate 'brutal Honesty' especially when the stone is for myself.


I would buy from John at SimplySapphires any time - he is honest and trustworthy. He gets some fine stones and some less fine (but that's the case with all vendors). I would buy from him rather than NSC and have made my feelings about NSC in my above post. I would urge you to take some time and search for NSC on here - look at their posts and that will help you make a judgement about their business practices. I will say no more on that subject.

What I like about Simply Sapphires so far are the following:
- extremely fast response by John regarding my inquiry
- they are in NY, which if they have a physical office, I can go to see any stones he may have.
I'd like to see a couple or few stones in person at one time if possible, as purchasing, viewing, possibly sending back several stones via the mails may be trying. Seeing several stones at once makes comparisons simpler then trying to remember a stone you had but sent back, and trying to compare it to another may be difficult. One of the pluses of NSC is that I'm able to get to the location for viewing the stones. That being said, i understand that purchasing stones over the internet is entirely possible and can be care free.
I have done it on several occasions regarding purchasing Black opal from the same Vendor, which is one of the Hardest stones to purchase over the internet considering there are so many variations of Black Opal. Purchasing from this particular vendor was Seamless. I didn't mention the vendor as I'm not sure if it is within the rules to do so. I'll check later on.


I hear you about NSC. That being said, so far my experience has been pretty good, and the salesperson helping me has much patience. That being said, my antennae are up, as they are Always up.

Now that you're not restricted to depth (thank goodness!) it's worth contacting a few more of those on the vendor's list I mentioned previously. Also, please stay away from descriptors such as neon, electric etc. Get a photo of the colour you want and send that to all the vendors - that speaks volumes and is much better than words!

I'll definitely upload a couple of pics of stones with the Color I'm looking for.

Thanks

I see my response format may have gotten screwed up a little, so if there is anything that needs clearing up, let me know.

 

[chrono]

Not just a colour swatch but a top notch sapphire with the colour you are looking for. I think there was a poster who contacted Jeff White not long ago, who found him a beautiful 7.5 mm unheated sapphire (recut for best colour and brilliance) for $1000/ct only.

 

[Sapphire1]

Not just a colour swatch but a top notch sapphire with the colour you are looking for. I think there was a poster who contacted Jeff White not long ago, who found him a beautiful 7.5 mm unheated sapphire (recut for best colour and brilliance) for $1000/ct only.

Yowsa!
$1000/ct.??
Sounds great to me! I if similar is available.
I thought Sapphire was a costly stone if one wants high quality?
I saw a 3ct. Kashmir in person for $25m/ct. Don't know if it was worth it.
As I posted previously, I've been given prices from $3500/ct to $6-7m/ct.
Glad I searched and found this site, as I see High quality stones can be purchased for lower prices than I thought.

Regarding the pics, as I mentioned, I'll upload a couple of stones whose color I'm looking for later on.

I'll look up Jeff White.

Thanks.

Update:
Found this on Jeff White's Website.
The stone is too small for me, But the color and quality (as far as I can tell from a picture) is what I am looking for:
http://www.whitesgems.com/gallery/SAP010.htm

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Welcome to the lawless Wild West of colored gemstones. You folks from the diamond coast often experience a bit of culture shock to find that rules and prices are so flexible here.

How patient you are willing to be will determine your price. A presicion lapidary like Jeff White or Rogery Dery (or anyone else in the recommended lapidary thread in the post-it on top of this page) will get you something amazing at below what you will pay at NSC. But it will usually take months for them to find something get it to you, and time might not be a luxury that you have. The pics on Jeff's site are almost all sold stones.

I agree with everyone to forget about depth, but I find this chart gives a helpful rough estimate of what sort of face-up size one can hope for based on a certain weight. I personally think these numbers are a bit on the high side. I would use this as more of a rough yard-stick for determining whether you are getting good bang for your buck as oppossed to depth.

http://www.brilliancejewelry.com/Gemstones/conversion.html

 

[corundum_conundrum]

and maybe compare with this less ambitious chart:

http://alhamdgems.net/index.php/size-weight-conversion-chart.html

 

[chrono]

SapphireOne,
It must be custom cut to order. Most lapidaries do not have what a customer is looking for ready cut. Contact JW and ask.

 

[Sapphire1]

SapphireOne,
It must be custom cut to order. Most lapidaries do not have what a customer is looking for ready cut. Contact JW and ask.

Yes. I sent an email to Jeff White early this afternoon.
I look forward to receiving his response.

 

[Sapphire1]

and maybe compare with this less ambitious chart:

http://alhamdgems.net/index.php/size-weight-conversion-chart.html

Thanks for those charts.

 

[resistencia9951]

Prices are all over the map, so definitely take your time to find the right one at a reasonable price. It really comes down to patience.

 

[Sapphire1]

Prices are all over the map, so definitely take your time to find the right one at a reasonable price. It really comes down to patience.

Yes, they are. Patience will be a virtue here.
I returned the 2.66ct stone as it didn't look good in any light.
I had 2 experts in the field look at it anyway.
Had a flat top (flat crown) and it's Origin was Australia, with much certainty, with Green modifier. (My term. Don't know if modifier is correct description.)

I saw another stone from a different vendor.
I don't have pictures.
It is:
Round
3.04ct.
8.3mm
GRS cert. No Heat, Origin: Madagascar
This stone was of a beautiful blue.
Much brilliance.
The nicest of blues (imo)
Looks Brilliant and Blue in All light viewed under.
Fluorescent, Halogen, Daylight.

The stone 'Popped,' no matter the light, no matter it's orientation.
The cost was approximate $2500/ct. reduced from a higher amount.

Slightly out of my budget.
But as I said, a gorgeous stone.
If I wanted a cushion or oval, I'd have more choices at lower prices.
I either increase my budget, or just wait.
But at approximately $2500/ct. as a reference, I don't know how much lower per carat price I can get a Stone with the Qualities I'm looking for.

I had to keep my hands our out of my pockets for the stone I saw, so to speak
I will have more stones to look at in a couple of weeks or so.

 

[kaos1972]

I completely agree with the advice already given. I have been looking for a "perfect" sapphire for and engagement ring center stone for the last couple of months. After several weeks of research and learning I began reaching out to some of the trusted vendors found on here. Jeff White was fantastic to work with, but just didn't have the inventory or rough for what I was looking for. Jeff Davies had some beautiful stones at great prices, but just not quite right for me.

Ultimately, I purchased a 3.6 ct sapphire from Elke at Vance Gems this weekend at the gem show in Chantilly. She was great to work with and her husband recently brought back a number of high quality sapphires from Sri Lanka.

With patience and research, I was finding excellent sapphires in the ~$1100-1500/ct range. I certainly found much higher, but knowing they were available for much less motivated me to take my time and go through the extra effort.

Elke is sending the sapphire I bought off to AGL to have it certified, so no pictures to post yet.

 

[minousbijoux]

I completely agree with the advice already given. I have been looking for a "perfect" sapphire for and engagement ring center stone for the last couple of months. After several weeks of research and learning I began reaching out to some of the trusted vendors found on here. Jeff White was fantastic to work with, but just didn't have the inventory or rough for what I was looking for. Jeff Davies had some beautiful stones at great prices, but just not quite right for me.

Ultimately, I purchased a 3.6 ct sapphire from Elke at Vance Gems this weekend at the gem show in Chantilly. She was great to work with and her husband recently brought back a number of high quality sapphires from Sri Lanka.

With patience and research, I was finding excellent sapphires in the ~$1100-1500/ct range. I certainly found much higher, but knowing they were available for much less motivated me to take my time and go through the extra effort.

Elke is sending the sapphire I bought off to AGL to have it certified, so no pictures to post yet.

Good for you for finding the right stone for your ring. Sapphire1, however, is looking for an unheated stone, which is a significant difference.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Is this of interest to you?

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-56ct-agl-unheated-ceylon-sapphire-t183201.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-56ct-agl-unheated-ceylon-sapphire-t183201.html[/URL]

cheers--Shaorn

 

[Sapphire1]

HI:

Is this of interest to you?

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-56ct-agl-unheated-ceylon-sapphire-t183201.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/2-56ct-agl-unheated-ceylon-sapphire-t183201.html[/URL]

cheers--Shaorn

Nice stone, but I'm looking for a Round.
I appreciate the link.
Thanks

 

[Sapphire1]

I've been in touch with Jeff White via emails. While he doesn't have anything that fits my criteria right now, he'll be keeping an eye out at the Tuscon Show for me. Of course I'll let him know if I find a Stone before then.
I've also spoken with Ed of Wild Fish Gems. Was a pleasure to speak with him. He also doesn't have a stone that fits my criteria right now, but he mentioned that a stone fitting the criteria I'm looking for will be approx. $5000/ct, making a 3ct stone costing about $15,000, which is slightly out of my range. Ed mentioned that he can source a stone for me, and I would just have to let him know. Of course I thanked him, and will definitely let him know if that is the path I'll take.

It seems that the 3.04ct stone I saw for approx. $2500/ct may be a good deal.
The GRS Report did specify that the stone is Unheated, but it also specified that the Origin is Madagascar.
While being happy with the stone is first priority, which I am, I have been doing a lot of research regarding Origin, and from what I can see and have been told, All things being equal regarding quality, Madagascar stones can go for up to 25% less than a Ceylon stone, for instance.
While I understand that the cost of the 3.04ct stone in question, while of significant money to me, is not even close to a High Valued Collector's Sapphire such as a Top notch Kashmir stone, and is not going up on Christie's Auction block anytime soon l stones anymore due to the way in which they are mined regarding child labor, bad conditions, etc. similar to Blood Diamonds, except in the case of Madagascar, the monies are not used to fund Wars, but nevertheless important issues have seemed to be raised.

Any feedback regarding Sapphire from Madagascar and my thoughts about it are appreciated.

 

[chrono]

What makes your sapphire a difficult search is that you are only considering rounds - sapphire are more commonly shaped as ovals and cushions due to the way the rough is formed and mined. If the colour of the Madagascar sapphire is very fine, its origin would not bother me one whit. The question is how fine is it?

 

[Sapphire1]

The 3.04 is gorgeous, imo.
I don't have pics, but the color hit me, and I said this is exactly the color I'm looking for,
It popped in all light equally, and remained brilliant and full of life at all angles.
I was unable to view it in sunlight, but I have no doubt it would look as beautiful or more so.
With the above being said, I will be viewing a cushion cut on Monday, which is a 3.04ct stone, No treatment, AGL Fast Track, 8.59x7.18 @$2000/ct.

I was thinking that maybe a cushion would look better in a pinky ring for myself than a round. I don't want the Round to look too small, although at 8.3mm with much brilliance, the 3.04ct may be perfect in a ring.
I've seen the pic of the cushion on the AGL card as a reference, which of course doesn't do a Stone justice, but it looks to be just right. I'll know when I have it in hand, and then I'll decide about what shape I'd prefer.

 

[chrono]

If you like the colour, then that's great but it still does not answer the question of how fine the colour is, which is what pricing is based on. Without any pictures (colour accuracy aside), I don't know how good or bad the cut is either, if there are any potential issues.

 

[Sapphire1]

If you like the colour, then that's great but it still does not answer the question of how fine the colour is, which is what pricing is based on. Without any pictures (colour accuracy aside), I don't know how good or bad the cut is either, if there are any potential issues.

I hear ya.
I should have taken a few pics to post of the 3.04ct Round.
I did show it to a very reputable Gemologist who thought it was cut very nicely. No windows (possible tilt windows) no extinction, at least none that affected the stone negatively.
Looking great in all light, with scintillation at all angles, while not scientific, would be indicative of a well cut stone, but as I mentioned, impossible for someone to give an accurate review of the stone without it in hand, or any pictures to formulate an opinion of.

 

[Sapphire1]

Here are some pics of the cushion sapphire.
At first glance, the color and tone didn't do much for me, even after looking at it for a while. Not 'rich' enough. Not enough saturation.It wasn't consistent in color, and was too light of a blue at most angles, in addition to what I noticed later on.
So it's going back.
After inspecting it for a half hour or so, I've come to the following conclusions, albeit novice conclusions which may be incorrect:

1) There is not enough scintillation for me. Maybe after seeing the Round previously (the 3.04ct)I'm expecting too much from a cushion cut. But Cushions can also sparkle I have no doubt.
2) the color is not consistent throughout the stone.
3) there is at least one large window, maybe a couple of windows from a straight down look, and especially at slight angles.
4) there is extinction in this stone, in a couple of spots. Actually it's like a pattern of extinction or maybe its banding or color zoning.

Here are a few pics, mostly under incandescent, and a couple near the window where the sun is shining.
They're not the greatest pics, but hopefully good enough for you guys and girls to formulate your opinions, without having the stone in hand.
Thanks






One more pic:

 

[LD]

Well if the colour is the same as the photos on the fingers then I love it!

If it's the colour taken in the box with the lid on then it's quite grey and then I don't love it!!!!

BTW you can't have multiple windows. I don't think you're understanding what a window is - you're confusing a window with a tilt window (tilt windows you should ignore as they're not a problem and are normal). Looking at your photos, it does have a window but the saturation is good enough that you're not losing colour and once this is set, it'll be lovely.