Cflutist ... ? the metals used for flutes ...

[kenny]

How exactly do silver and gold flute heads, and entire flutes, sound compared to equally-well-made flutes of less-expensive metals.

Can a trained ear spot the tone of a solid sterling head on a nikel-plated flute, or a gold flute in a double-blind test?
I believe Jean Pierre Rampal and James Galway play gold flutes and I wonder if the round tone they get is more the gold or their technique.

I hear the more you pay the more silver you get ... then if you pay MUCH more you start to get a gold head, then all gold.

Do they come in both 14K and 18K?
How bout platinum or palladium?

Why wouldn't a flute plated with silver or gold sound the same as solid metal?
Could it be psychosomatic, or could the tone difference be attributed to better workmanship likely with the most expensive flutes?

Is a precious metal flute mostly a status symbol thing like flatware of solid sterling, and Buckingham palace having solid-gold flatware?
Those are impressive and I'm not criticizing them, but they don't to a better job of carrying the food from the plate to the mouth than stainless steel.

 

[cflutist]

Difficult to explain the difference in timbre. But people argue about it on the flute boards all the time.
Some say they can tell the difference, others say no.
Of course the more expensive the metal, the more care into crafting the instrument (almost like a CBI diamond, jk)

I've recorded myself playing my solid sterling flute versus my 14K Rose Gold one and I can tell the difference upon playback.
The gold one is more responsive and has a more robust lower register. It is also a heavier instrument. It is also a newer
instrument and it is built to the newer improved scales (exact position of the toneholes) compared to my older 1972 flute.
The mechanism is also greatly improved now, the new one feels like butter, versus more clanky keys of my older flute.
My older flute is still a professional Wm. S Haynes flute handmade in Boston, same brand played by the late Rampal.

Yes, you can get 14K, 19.5K, and platinum.

A platinum flute with rose gold keys is about $75K now. The guy who made my flute posted one that he made on his FB page and says that it comes with a gym membership because it is so heavy.

http://www.brannenflutes.com/

Here is a YouTube video from 2006 showing how flutes are made by Brannen Brothers (the maker of my flute).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHSu0trGkRg

They cast keys like how they cast jewelry (they even show the casting grain).

If you want to see the care that goes into just engraving the logo (it is a work of art which has absolutely nothing to do with the playability of the flute):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkvXGSfhIWU

I would assume that there are also differences in high end pianos?

 

[arkieb1]

There is a guy here in Australia who handmakes wooden headjoints for flutes that fit into any type of flute. These have an amazingly beautiful (and totally different) sound as well.

I can tell the different between my flutes (I own 4) and so can anyone that listens - they are all different, and I can hear the different between other flutes too. I dare say you could too Kenny, if you knew what you were listening too.

 

[iLander]

Kenny, with your last couple of threads, I feel like you've been poking around in my closet of unused instruments.

In a dusty box, I found an open hole flute that was my FIL's and decided to take lessons. Mostly because it bothered me that other people could read music, while I couldn't. I didn't realize that open hole is harder, and my teacher didn't mention caps.

So I took lessons for about a year, when my husband bought me a sterling silver Yamaha (also freaking open hole). The difference is like night and day. One sounded tinny and the other, I think because of the thinner metal, was more resonant and picked up subtleties. Which made me a better player, because I tried to attain a nicer tone.

The difference is like a vinyl record versus tinny car radio. It's not car radio versus live orchestra difference, though. Does that help?

I played for another year on the sterling flute, before my attention spanned waned. I really should sell it, it's a shame to have such a lovely flute set unused.

All this makes me wonder what kind of audio system you listen to. I'm a Bang and Olufsen girl, myself.

 

[cflutist]

Kenny, with your last couple of threads, I feel like you've been poking around in my closet of unused instruments.

In a dusty box, I found an open hole flute that was my FIL's and decided to take lessons. Mostly because it bothered me that other people could read music, while I couldn't. I didn't realize that open hole is harder, and my teacher didn't mention caps.

So I took lessons for about a year, when my husband bought me a sterling silver Yamaha (also freaking open hole). The difference is like night and day. One sounded tinny and the other, I think because of the thinner metal, was more resonant and picked up subtleties. Which made me a better player, because I tried to attain a nicer tone.

The difference is like a vinyl record versus tinny car radio. It's not car radio versus live orchestra difference, though. Does that help?

I played for another year on the sterling flute, before my attention spanned waned. I really should sell it, it's a shame to have such a lovely flute set unused.

All this makes me wonder what kind of audio system you listen to. I'm a Bang and Olufsen girl, myself.

Kenny, if you start an audio thread, I'll play ... I'm one of the few women who hang out at the AudioKarma board.

iLander, although I still play open-hole inline-G, many of the younger players now play open-hole offset-G which are ergonomically better for our hands.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I find the difference in tone usually noticeable between two well made flutes, one sterling, one not (of course, the difference between "Learner's Special" and a good flute is much greater and independent of alloy). Each metal resonates differently. Plating is mainly cosmetic to my ear. The mass of vibrating metal is still the base, not the thin, thin plated layer.

I have seen some incredible carved and chased flutes that are just beautiful examples of metal crafting. However, I would like to play one or to hear a good test. I imagine some of the apliquèd adornments might interfere with the sound and an instrument should sound fantastic first and foremost.

 

[kenny]

Difficult to explain the difference in timbre. But people argue about it on the flute boards all the time.
Some say they can tell the difference, others say no.
Of course the more expensive the metal, the more care into crafting the instrument (almost like a CBI diamond, jk)

I've recorded myself playing my solid sterling flute versus my 14K Rose Gold one and I can tell the difference upon playback.
The gold one is more responsive and has a more robust lower register. It is also a heavier instrument. It is also a newer
instrument and it is built to the newer improved scales (exact position of the toneholes) compared to my older 1972 flute.
The mechanism is also greatly improved now, the new one feels like butter, versus more clanky keys of my older flute.
My older flute is still a professional Wm. S Haynes flute handmade in Boston, same brand played by the late Rampal.

Yes, you can get 14K, 19.5K, and platinum.

A platinum flute with rose gold keys is about $75K now. The guy who made my flute posted one that he made on his FB page and says that it comes with a gym membership because it is so heavy.

http://www.brannenflutes.com/

Here is a YouTube video from 2006 showing how flutes are made by Brannen Brothers (the maker of my flute).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHSu0trGkRg

They cast keys like how they cast jewelry (they even show the casting grain).

If you want to see the care that goes into just engraving the logo (it is a work of art which has absolutely nothing to do with the playability of the flute):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkvXGSfhIWU

I would assume that there are also differences in high end pianos?

Thanks for posting the videos; I really enjoyed watching them.
Very fascinating.

I can only imagine what a joy it is to play a fine flute.
Yes, I could ramble for hours about differences in high end pianos.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, with your last couple of threads, I feel like you've been poking around in my closet of unused instruments.

In a dusty box, I found an open hole flute that was my FIL's and decided to take lessons. Mostly because it bothered me that other people could read music, while I couldn't. I didn't realize that open hole is harder, and my teacher didn't mention caps.

So I took lessons for about a year, when my husband bought me a sterling silver Yamaha (also freaking open hole). The difference is like night and day. One sounded tinny and the other, I think because of the thinner metal, was more resonant and picked up subtleties. Which made me a better player, because I tried to attain a nicer tone.

The difference is like a vinyl record versus tinny car radio. It's not car radio versus live orchestra difference, though. Does that help?

I played for another year on the sterling flute, before my attention spanned waned. I really should sell it, it's a shame to have such a lovely flute set unused.

All this makes me wonder what kind of audio system you listen to. I'm a Bang and Olufsen girl, myself.

I'm a bit confused.
You got a silver Yamie, but I don't know what brand/metal/quality the other flute was and which sounded tinny?

20 years ago I was into high end audio gear, Crown amp, Altec Lansing Model 19s, which were Altec's classic Voice of the Theater drivers in a nice cabinet.
Today I've simplified.
I just connect a CD player directly to Mackie HR-824 self-powered studio monitors or use Sony MD-7506 headphones.
I don't have anything in my iTunes account or any kind of iPod or MP3 player.
I haven't even bothered finding the password for my car's radio.

 

[kenny]

Cfluitist, if you have a recording I'd love to hear it.
How do I do that?
Can you post a link here?