Cartier excellent cut diamond, HCA only 4.6?

[silencer]

Newbie here. I'm looking at a Cartier diamond ring, 0.9 carat, excellent cut/polish/symmetry. I used the online Holloway Cut Adviser and obtained a result of merely 4.6. Is this normal?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Roxy]

Re: Cartier excellent cut diamond HCA only 4.6?

Hi! You want to get an HCA score below 2, so 4.6 isn't in the best cut range. It doesn't mean that the diamond is ugly or anything like that (many other factors like color, clarity, etc come into play), it just means that it's not a spectacularly well cut stone.

 

[distracts]

You want a score under 2 for a well cut round brilliant. Many if not most Cartier, Tiffany, etc diamonds do not obtain that result. They DO manage to pick diamonds that aren't dogs, but while they're good performers, many here have noticed they're not TOP performers. You really need to pick if you want an ideally cut diamond or a brand name ring, because it's hard to get both.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Unfortunately we have seen this many times from Cartier, Tiffany, etc. It pays to check, because honestly, if I am paying for the brand name, I absolutely want a top cut quality stone as well. You are probably fine with a lot of stones in the 2-3 range. But I wouldn't do a 4.6, personally.

 

[Laila619]

You want a score under 2 for a well cut round brilliant. Many if not most Cartier, Tiffany, etc diamonds do not obtain that result. They DO manage to pick diamonds that aren't dogs, but while they're good performers, many here have noticed they're not TOP performers. You really need to pick if you want an ideally cut diamond or a brand name ring, because it's hard to get both.

Yes, the diamonds won't be total dogs, but they are not always the best.

 

[Niel]

Newbie here. I'm looking at a Cartier diamond ring, 0.9 carat, excellent cut/polish/symmetry. I used the online Holloway Cut Adviser and obtained a result of merely 4.6. Is this normal?

Thanks for any help.

Are you open to something other than Cartier? Id bet you could get a better cut as well a larger stone for the price your paying for the Cartier name. Whats your budget?

 

[silencer]

Thanks people for all the replies.

I realize that 4.6 is somewhat bad number, but I guess my question really is:

1) Is it possible that, a 3EX diamond, even without a good HCA, could actually be good? Is it possible that HCA is not always a "deterministic" conclusion in terms of the brilliance, fire, etc (look & feel)?

2) Is it true that these brand name diamonds like Cartier and Tiffany don't usually have good HCA cuts? I don't want to hesitate with this one (that I'm looking at) and risk losing it, only to find out later that most of Cartier diamonds don't do any better than this one in terms of HCA.

 

[silencer]

Newbie here. I'm looking at a Cartier diamond ring, 0.9 carat, excellent cut/polish/symmetry. I used the online Holloway Cut Adviser and obtained a result of merely 4.6. Is this normal?

Thanks for any help.

Are you open to something other than Cartier? Id bet you could get a better cut as well a larger stone for the price your paying for the Cartier name. Whats your budget?

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately with my gf non brand names is not an option. So I guess I'm not open to anything other than Cartier.

 

[milton333]

So, here's the thing with diamonds - the optical performance, the sparkle and fire, that IS the brand. SIZE is the brand. Super ideal cut is the cream of the crop. I mean, there's plenty of Cartier jewelry or watch designs that I'd pay for, but if we're talking about just a diamond and a solitaire setting - there's nothing "Cartier" that you're really getting, other than the price tag.

You may be able to find a better-performing stone than this one from Cartier. I wouldn't personally spend that kind of money to get a 4.6 HCA score. Many of the Tiffany's stones, for example, score poorly, but it is possible to find better performers. People on here have posted about sifting through and calling in lots of stones before finding one that gets a decent HCA score.

But without giving you relationship advice, I'd just say that you might want to have a conversation with your girlfriend about the realities of budget and what's available at Cartier. If she's not knowledgeable about diamonds, she might think you can't get top-notch diamonds from anywhere but Cartier. She could get a BIGGER, super ideal diamond from some place other than Cartier. And if it's all about name-dropping, FWIW, celebrities own rings from our recommended online vendors. If she needs bragging rights, Whiteflash sold Jessica Alba's engagement ring, for example. Personally, I'd rather brag about my 1.5 carat super-ideal diamond than my not-quite-one-carat Cartier mediocre performer.

 

[Niel]

Newbie here. I'm looking at a Cartier diamond ring, 0.9 carat, excellent cut/polish/symmetry. I used the online Holloway Cut Adviser and obtained a result of merely 4.6. Is this normal?

Thanks for any help.

Are you open to something other than Cartier? Id bet you could get a better cut as well a larger stone for the price your paying for the Cartier name. Whats your budget?

I completely agree with you. Unfortunately with my gf non brand names is not an option. So I guess I'm not open to anything other than Cartier.

In my opinion If I was buying a ring I would be sad to know I spent so much on something that wasn't the best I could get for my dollar in terms of size and light performance. Has she seen the different in ct size between what your budget can get her with from Cartier and from a non jewelry chain? I only ask because isnt that ring fairly pricy? I had asked about a plain shank halo with a .5 ct and it was like 10k if i remember correct. So i would imagine the price for that size diamond would be a sizable amount of money. Which could really be stretched if you went with the right vendors. And then you wouldnt have to worry that the stone you paid so much for was under performing. And a Leon Mege or a Victor Canera has its own cache with people who know about jewelry. If she really wants a cache along to go along with her ring.

This is just my two cents ignore it if you want and please get whatever your girlfriend wants most. You are sweet to try so hard to get her exactly what she wants!! But at the end of the day what do you want to spend your money on and what will she be more impressed with. A top quality diamond ring or a brand.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree that you should get her what she wants. But I am one who chose the replica of the Tiffany setting and put a larger and better diamond in it than Tiffany typically sells. Just make sure she understands that she could get a larger and higher cut quality stone if she went outside the big brand names.

But, if you are stuck at Cartier, then ask them to check their inventory company wide for all the .9 ct rings. We can help you narrow them down if you can get the GIA report numbers.

 

[distracts]

1) Is it possible that, a 3EX diamond, even without a good HCA, could actually be good? Is it possible that HCA is not always a "deterministic" conclusion in terms of the brilliance, fire, etc (look & feel)?

2) Is it true that these brand name diamonds like Cartier and Tiffany don't usually have good HCA cuts? I don't want to hesitate with this one (that I'm looking at) and risk losing it, only to find out later that most of Cartier diamonds don't do any better than this one in terms of HCA.

1) It's not deterministic, but even in photographs and irl most of us can tell most Cartier, Tiffany, etc diamonds are not ideal performers. That does not mean they are bad. I would place them squarely in the "good" category. But I would not consider them "ideal." Good is fine for most people. PS regulars want ideal. You have to find what is right for you - and if all your girlfriend wants is Cartier, then that is what is right for you.

2) With PSers who have tried finding HCA<2 diamonds at Cartier and Tiffany, it has seemed to be a massive struggle. I'm sure you can search to find previous threads. Their system is not set up for you to look for specific parameters like that and the SAs don't really want to help. Most of their diamonds that I have seen people post about do not fall into the HCA-sub-two category, but it could be that there are a lot that do and that those people just don't post (I actually doubt this). I don't have enough information to know, and I sincerely doubt any other PSer does either as we have no way of sifting through Cartier's diamond selection.

 

[Christina...]

I don't think that any GIA EX EX EX is going to be a dog. We have seen AGS0 stones score very poorly on the HCA and AGS has already evaluated them as having ideal light performance. So who is right? The problem is that without additional information you don't know the answer. And don't expect Cartier to provide you with any more information than the lab report. If you have the report number you could post it and we could give you our opinion as to the cut. It may not be as bad as the HCA implies it is. GIA also rounds there numbers, so if they fall just a bit to one side or the other it could make a big difference in how it scores, but again to know for sure you would need additional information that Cartier will not provide. This is the biggest reason that PSers stick to certain vendors, because they can provide us with lots of information about the stone, which is super important when buying online, and even in person in most cases as it's very difficult to assess a diamond under trick jewelry store lighting.

I'd post the diamond proportions if you have them. There may be an obvious reason to stay away from this particular stone, and there may also be a reason to consider it further. But to answer your question about the HCA, it is supposed to be used as a rejection tool when weeding through huge online inventories, not as a selection tool. It will sometimes allow a dog to pass and sometimes a beauty to fail. It's a wonderful and helpful tool as does it's job quite well, but if you are interested in a particular stone, it's the additional information that will decide whether it's worthy of consideration or not.

 

[Frenchcut]

Wow, I understand you are disappointed. Can't you ask them to show you another stone in the same size range?

My 0.9 carat ring was bought at Cartier and even though I know it's not an ideal cut it scored less than 2 on the HCA. It's a beautiful stone that sparkles a lot, so I know it's possible to find such a stone if your GF is set on one of their designs...good luck with your search!

 

[diamonds-are-friends]

just because it is a branded stone doesn't mean that it has the maximum light performance. Just because the HCA score is >2 doesn't mean that it is poorly cut diamond.

 

[SB621]

Just a little food for thought.

My old college roomate and I did our 5 year reunion not to long ago. She practically demanded her FI at the time get her a HW ring. He had a nice budget and got her a .8 HW ring. It was very pretty. However she was ROYALLY PI$$ED off when at the reunion someone brought up rings and EVERYONE was floored by mine and not a single word was spoken about hers....yup and mine was an HW inspired halo by VC. Moral of the story- brand names aren't always better...and this is coming from someone who LOVES Cartier and owns several pieces.

I would talk to your girlfriend. let her try on other styles and SIZES someplace else. For the price of Cartier you can get a larger hand forged ring. So much better!

 

[silencer]

I don't think that any GIA EX EX EX is going to be a dog. We have seen AGS0 stones score very poorly on the HCA and AGS has already evaluated them as having ideal light performance. So who is right? The problem is that without additional information you don't know the answer. And don't expect Cartier to provide you with any more information than the lab report. If you have the report number you could post it and we could give you our opinion as to the cut. It may not be as bad as the HCA implies it is. GIA also rounds there numbers, so if they fall just a bit to one side or the other it could make a big difference in how it scores, but again to know for sure you would need additional information that Cartier will not provide. This is the biggest reason that PSers stick to certain vendors, because they can provide us with lots of information about the stone, which is super important when buying online, and even in person in most cases as it's very difficult to assess a diamond under trick jewelry store lighting.

I'd post the diamond proportions if you have them. There may be an obvious reason to stay away from this particular stone, and there may also be a reason to consider it further. But to answer your question about the HCA, it is supposed to be used as a rejection tool when weeding through huge online inventories, not as a selection tool. It will sometimes allow a dog to pass and sometimes a beauty to fail. It's a wonderful and helpful tool as does it's job quite well, but if you are interested in a particular stone, it's the additional information that will decide whether it's worthy of consideration or not.

Measurements: 6.15 - 6.17 * 3.85 mm
Carat Weight: 0.90 carat
Color Grade: F
Clarity Grade: VS1
Cut Grade: Excellent

Depth: 62.6%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 35.5
Crown Height: 15.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.2
Pavilion Depth: 43.5%
Star Length: 55%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Newbie here. I'm looking at a Cartier diamond ring, 0.9 carat, excellent cut/polish/symmetry. I used the online Holloway Cut Adviser and obtained a result of merely 4.6. Is this normal?

Thanks for any help.

Can you purchase an idealscope to get an idea of the diamonds performance (rather than just using the numbers)? If she really wants Cartier, with that devise, you will have a better way to determine if a diamond is spectacular. The lighting in the store often can make it difficult to determine if a diamond is well cut...most diamonds sparkle under jewelry lighting.

 

[Christina...]

It's possible that the stone will have a dark ring in the middle because of the pavilion angle. Typically most PS look for a pav angle of 40.6-41 with a crown angle of 34-35.5. It is also a tad deeper than we like to see. My limit is 62.3, deeper than that can cause the stone to face up smaller than it ideally should. I like MC's idea of purchasing an ideal scope to take with you when viewing stones if purchasing from this particular vendor is important to you. There are many cut nuts here that can give you more insight on this particular stone, but having seen the numbers, personally I would pass.

Just a thought, have you resigned yourself to a specific color and clarity? You would have more stone options if you allowed yourself to be more flexible. I consider H SI1 and above as safe options. More fish with a bigger net if you know what I mean. Most people can't differentiate color differences until they get below an H and eye clean is eye clean, you won't be carrying around a loupe to view the stone anyway. The difference in price between a G and an F is enormous but the visual difference is extremely minimal. A VVS2 and a VS2 look identical without a loupe (generally speaking, there are always exceptions).

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, I agree with Christina about the problems with that stone and would not buy it. I try to find stones that have a depth of 62 or less, but definitely 62.3 or less. You don't want weight hidden in the depth. You want less depth and greater diameter. My .80 diamond pendant has a diameter of around 6.05mm.

I also agree with Sarah that in real life, you never really say where your ring came from when someone admires it. People almost never ask, either. And in her case, the Victor Canera halo ring was admired while the smaller Harry Winston ring was ignored.

Which setting is it? We could show you the size diamond you could get in a similar setting and you could ask her to be sure she wouldn't rather have a larger diamond and equal to better quality.

 

[SB621]

Ok just another idea....or more of a compromise. Instead of a Cartier ering how about you get her wedding band from Cartier? They have beautiful bands and that way she gets her brand name and a beautiful, big, well performing diamond (from somewhere else).

I'm with DS- what setting are you looking at in Cartier? And what is your budget for the entire ering?

 

[Niel]

Ok just another idea....or more of a compromise. Instead of a Cartier ering how about you get her wedding band from Cartier? They have beautiful bands and that way she gets her brand name and a beautiful, big, well performing diamond (from somewhere else).

I'm with DS- what setting are you looking at in Cartier? And what is your budget for the entire ering?

Agreed. I'd give us the budget and ser what a good ps hunt can turn up. Than I'd have her try on the size od a Cartier one and the size of what we find and then she can decide what's most important to her

 

[CharmyPoo]

Why are you hesitant to get Cartier to find you another diamond that is under 2 on HCA? I mean ... doesn't hurt right?

Is this a second hand ring which is why you are pushing for this particular diamond?

 

[silencer]

Thank you guys and ladies all for the valuable information. I'm leaning towards online vendors now thanks to all the persuasions.

 

[silencer]

Yes, I agree with Christina about the problems with that stone and would not buy it. I try to find stones that have a depth of 62 or less, but definitely 62.3 or less. You don't want weight hidden in the depth. You want less depth and greater diameter. My .80 diamond pendant has a diameter of around 6.05mm.

I also agree with Sarah that in real life, you never really say where your ring came from when someone admires it. People almost never ask, either. And in her case, the Victor Canera halo ring was admired while the smaller Harry Winston ring was ignored.

Which setting is it? We could show you the size diamond you could get in a similar setting and you could ask her to be sure she wouldn't rather have a larger diamond and equal to better quality.

It's the classic Cartier 1895 setting without the side stones (the most basic 1895). Which online vendor carries something similar?

 

[Niel]

Thank you guys and ladies all for the valuable information. I'm leaning towards online vendors now thanks to all the persuasions.

I think that's a great idea. As log as your GF is ok with it

 

[Niel]

Engagement rings direct specifically has a category if rings that are simular to Cartier rings so I would check them out. But I think the bran Gavin comparable is maybe the elegance? Many people could replicate that setting for a lot less. A soliaire like that it's all about the diamond. I would for sure go online vendor with such a simple design.
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/elegance-18k-rose-gold-5415r18

Id pick ERD because they can get some nice claw prongs on that setting
Eta what did yin decide your budget is?

 

[SB621]

Yes, I agree with Christina about the problems with that stone and would not buy it. I try to find stones that have a depth of 62 or less, but definitely 62.3 or less. You don't want weight hidden in the depth. You want less depth and greater diameter. My .80 diamond pendant has a diameter of around 6.05mm.

I also agree with Sarah that in real life, you never really say where your ring came from when someone admires it. People almost never ask, either. And in her case, the Victor Canera halo ring was admired while the smaller Harry Winston ring was ignored.

Which setting is it? We could show you the size diamond you could get in a similar setting and you could ask her to be sure she wouldn't rather have a larger diamond and equal to better quality.

It's the classic Cartier 1895 setting without the side stones (the most basic 1895). Which online vendor carries something similar?

Pretty much anyone and everyone does that design. If you are looking for a PS vendor I would probably go with ERD as they have a Cartier inspired line. I haven't seen this particular design compared to other PS vendors (WF, BGD, IDJ etc) but I think ERD has the best version of it from looking online. ERD also does CAST/CAD as well as hand forged if you care to look into that option as well.
http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/cartier-inspired-pcid-17.html

 

[ManhattanSpin]

I've been looking at a diamond at Cartier myself and it scored a 3.5 on HCA but sparkles like crazy! So I don't think the HCA calculator is the end-all decider of these things...

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

At the very least.....Cartier has an inventory...you don't have to buy the first stone they source for you. If you want "Cartier", and I would, then have them search for you. It is what they do.

cheers--Sharon