Career crisis! Mid 20''s and very lost.

[Porridge]

Ok so the title is a little dramatic...but I'm going out of my mind with indecision.

Here's the background, from the beginning. Ok lets be honest here, it's not background. It's my life story. Feel free to skip on if you're not in autobiographical mood. This is gonna be loooooooooooooooong.

I am a good student. I did very well in school. I loved maths and physics. I enjoyed economics but had to drop it in 5th year as there was a timetable clash with chemistry. (I needed two science subjects and didn't want to do biology.) I went to a career guidance counsellor who did all these tests, looked at my grades, and told me to do medicine. So I went for it, but didn't get the points necessary. Close, but no cigar. The only thing left on my uni application list was science, so that's what I did, with the notion that I'd apply for graduate medicine afterwards. I really enjoyed maths and physics in first year. I was in maths class with the financial maths and economics students and actually applied to switch over but unfortunately, it was not possible. A couple of weeks to late.

I studied on, but I was aimless. At this point I really should have taken a year out and tried work experience. But I LOVED college. I was really involved in the musical society and sports. I loved the city I was living in, I had a ton of wonderful friends (still do) and was just having a really great time. But I was not interested in my course. I still enjoyed the maths and physics. I struggled with biology.

Maths was not an option in second year, so I did physics and biochemistry. I did not enjoy biochemistry. I did enjoy physics, but as much as I liked it, I knew it was not where my career lay. (I think this may have been largely due to the fact that my physics department was involved in computer systems research, and our course featured computers and microelectronics heavily. I far preferred mechanics and optics, but we did not study these after second year.)

In third year I freaked out a little. I longed to have a goal, a focus, but I didn't, because I wasn't enjoying my course. I talked it over with my parents and we decided that after graduating from science, I should do physiotherapy. I would have needed an extra year to graduate with the credits necessary to apply for medicine, and I knew I couldn't handle it. I didn't have the hunger for it.
This was the wrong choice. It was never what I wanted, but I was so desperate to have a career focus that I was short sighted. I felt guilty about "wasting" my first degree...even though of course education is never a waste. I felt like I was letting myself and my parents down...even though my parents were never anything but supportive, never pushed or made me feel guilty. It was all me, being anxious to do well and succeed.

I did well in physiotherapy. Graduated with top marks, 9 months early. Physiotherapy is a great, stable, rewarding career. But again...not my passion. I just don't enjoy clinical work. That's hard to admit. You see my parents and my mum's family are all in the medical field. I guess around age 17 I fell into the thinking that that's what I should be doing too.

I feel like I've been aimless for years. I did the wrong things for the wrong reasons. I'm trying so hard to do what I think I should do, and I'm just not getting there. I don't feel any passion at all for it. I feel like a fraud in my current profession.

Now, it's fine. I'm only 25 years old, I have no big debt (college is free here and I worked all holidays etc). There is no pressure on me. I am one lucky girl in that respect. But I am still driving myself crazy, knowing I'm in the wrong area and trying to figure out how to get to the right one.

I'm bright, bubbly, energetic (almost hyper), confident. I was on the student council the whole way through my university life. I loved it. I was the producer for the university musical in third year. It took all my spare time. I loved it. I love projects, I like having a number of things on the go at once. I love working, I love being busy and challenged. I'm very social, I like people, interaction. I get on well with them. I love to travel. I enjoy change. I am driven. I can be kind of bossy and opinionated.
I want a rewarding career. I want the opportunity to work my way up to a high position, to have goals and achievements. I want to feel like I'm doing something worthwhile. I want to like what I do. I want to be really, really good at it.
I miss maths. I regret not going back to do the financial maths and economics degree after first year in college.
I worry that I have a grass-is-greener complex. I feel like I'm whining. I worry I'm a weak product of the generation that has it all. Too much choice. I'm a whole big ball of anxiety and crazy at the moment

I spend all my free time researching careers and annoying everyone with questions. Luckily I'm going on a weeks holidays tomorrow, that'll calm me down a bit I hope!

So. I KNOW I'm not the only one with career direction worries. I've been burning the ear off everyone I know the last few weeks, trying to get an idea of careers, lifestyles. I know we have a wonderful bunch of experienced, intelligent people here. I'm not looking for someone to tell me what to do. I'm looking for your experiences, I want to learn about your career. I mostly just want to get it all off my chest. I'll take any opinions I can get - be they verbal (well...written) smackdowns, or words of encouragement.

Thanks in advance, PS friends.

 

[Maisie]

I can''t advise you on the job front as I am not qualified in anything! I just wanted to send you big hugs. You sound so confused and conflicted and it can''t feel very nice.

I will let the other ps''ers give you some constructive advice.

 

[SarahLovesJS]

Wow Porridge I have to say while I am not experiencing the same debate as you, we are kindred spirits!

This part specifically:

I worry that I have a grass-is-greener complex. I feel like I'm whining. I worry I'm a weak product of the generation that has it all. Too much choice.

I think that is so true about a lot of us even if it is only a tiny bit and I worry so much about those things (a bit too much sometimes).

Anyway, I don't know if I can help you. I don't know the process there, but have you thought about some kind of law or political work that will include a lot of science? I am not trying to plug my dreams 100% I just think you could like that. That's the only thing coming to find so far..but I will keep thinking.

ETA: Looked at Steel's response and see that may not be an option so much..still thinking!!! Sending hugs as well..

 

[Steel]

No advice here but plenty of ranting.

But I think that our points system sucks. It seems to breed students to choose their career path according to how many CAO points they expect to achieve. You rarely hear of 600 pointers going to do agri or fitness instructing in an IT. We are bred to believe that good in school = med, law, psych etc and I don't agree with it. Our college placement scheme allows students to choose a degree often based on nothing more than a whim. Then we are set on a path we never really wanted and retraining will mean student debt.

You have a great head on those shoulders. You will make sense of it.

ETA:
I suppose it would be wise to bear the Island dynamic in mind. We have a number of young people being churned out of 'the system' which will all be dating and waiting in the wings for recovery. It will be those with the best training and experience (and cheap) which will rise to the top when recovery begins. So whatever you choose it is a good time to keep training and work-experiencing. But get your name down on any course you want - they are going quickly.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

have you ever looked into hospital administration as a career? If you like the Med field maybe you could do something like that? Or Hospital Finance?

 

[Porridge]

Date: 2/5/2010 5:05:27 PM
Author: Steel
No advice here but plenty of ranting.


But I think that our points system sucks. It seems to breed students to choose their career path according to how many CAO points they expect to achieve. You rarely hear of 600 pointers going to do agri or fitness instructing in an IT. We are bred to believe that good in school = med, law, psych etc and I don''t agree with it. Our college placement scheme allows students to choose a degree often based on nothing more than a whim. Then we are set on a path we never really wanted and retraining will mean student debt.



You have a great head on those shoulders. You will make sense of it.

You are so right. It''s ridiculous - the amount of 600 pointers that are not meant to be doctors but feel that they should be. Although they''ve changed it now - 450 points plus an aptitude test. On the other hand, it is a very fair system, with regards to its anonymity and concordance. It''s the way university course entry points are calculated is what I have a problem with. When I did my leaving, business and french in Trinity was 590 points. 590! Physio was 560. Still is I think. Nonsense, utter nonsense.

Thank you for the compliment. I know it will work out. One thing I''ve been looking into are graduate training schemes, like the NHS management training scheme, or the BUPA one. What I''m looking for are goals, an idea of what and where I want to be so that I can work to get there. And to shake the feeling of what I think I should be doing, cos it''s coming from nowhere, nobody''s expecting me to do anything I don''t want to do. It''s silly, and it''s led me down the wrong path.

It''ll come. But I''m getting antsy

 

[Porridge]

Date: 2/5/2010 5:14:01 PM
Author: ~*Alexis*~
have you ever looked into hospital administration as a career? If you like the Med field maybe you could do something like that? Or Hospital Finance?

Yes Alexis I think that would be a good area. I have been looking into that a lot. It would be great to make use of the education I have, rather than starting afresh.

Someone advised me recently to maybe stay away from healthcare fields, so that I would shake off the (ridiculous) guilt of not doing medicine. Go into another field altogether. It''s good advice I suppose, but still it would be great to use what I have. I would like to stay in an area like healthcare where I feel that what I''m doing is beneficial. On the other hand, if I want that feeling, I can always do volunteer work on the side. Or give some of my future millions to charity

My indecisiveness is really p*ssing me off.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I have similar indecision on a smaller scale, I''m in med school but don''t know what to specialize in, lol. The way I''m breaking it down in listing what my priorities are, what my academic interests and strengths are, and what kind of life i want.

For example, if you''re highly motivated my high salaries (perfectly ok in my book), then there are careers that allow you to reach some pretty high numbers if you are willing to do the hours, like banking/finance and elective surgical fields.

If you''re most motivated by the feeling that you''re helping others directly, then healthcare, social work, and various levels of teaching might be good options.

If you want to be well known or leave a legacy, then maybe a career in journalism or politics?

If you want to have 3 kids and spend a lot of time with them, that will be something else to factor in since having a family hinders your ladder climbing in some fields more than others.

And of course, I think people are happiest when they are at a job that they feel they''re good at, and you probably know what you''re best at. I think it''s just a matter of sitting down and figuring out what you''re good at and what you want most, and finding the job that connects the two the best.

On a personal note, I''m doing pediatrics right now and I have to say, seeing those kids day after day makes me smile!

 

[mamong]

Date: 2/5/2010 4:19:07 PM
Author:Porridge
Ok so the title is a little dramatic...but I''m going out of my mind with indecision.


Here''s the background, from the beginning. Ok lets be honest here, it''s not background. It''s my life story. Feel free to skip on if you''re not in autobiographical mood. This is gonna be loooooooooooooooong.


I am a good student. I did very well in school. I loved maths and physics. I enjoyed economics but had to drop it in 5th year as there was a timetable clash with chemistry. (I needed two science subjects and didn''t want to do biology.) I went to a career guidance counsellor who did all these tests, looked at my grades, and told me to do medicine. So I went for it, but didn''t get the points necessary. Close, but no cigar. The only thing left on my uni application list was science, so that''s what I did, with the notion that I''d apply for graduate medicine afterwards. I really enjoyed maths and physics in first year. I was in maths class with the financial maths and economics students and actually applied to switch over but unfortunately, it was not possible. A couple of weeks to late.


I studied on, but I was aimless. At this point I really should have taken a year out and tried work experience. But I LOVED college. I was really involved in the musical society and sports. I loved the city I was living in, I had a ton of wonderful friends (still do) and was just having a really great time. But I was not interested in my course. I still enjoyed the maths and physics. I struggled with biology.


Maths was not an option in second year, so I did physics and biochemistry. I did not enjoy biochemistry. I did enjoy physics, but as much as I liked it, I knew it was not where my career lay. (I think this may have been largely due to the fact that my physics department was involved in computer systems research, and our course featured computers and microelectronics heavily. I far preferred mechanics and optics, but we did not study these after second year.)


In third year I freaked out a little. I longed to have a goal, a focus, but I didn''t, because I wasn''t enjoying my course. I talked it over with my parents and we decided that after graduating from science, I should do physiotherapy. I would have needed an extra year to graduate with the credits necessary to apply for medicine, and I knew I couldn''t handle it. I didn''t have the hunger for it.

This was the wrong choice. It was never what I wanted, but I was so desperate to have a career focus that I was short sighted. I felt guilty about ''wasting'' my first degree...even though of course education is never a waste. I felt like I was letting myself and my parents down...even though my parents were never anything but supportive, never pushed or made me feel guilty. It was all me, being anxious to do well and succeed.


I did well in physiotherapy. Graduated with top marks, 9 months early. Physiotherapy is a great, stable, rewarding career. But again...not my passion. I just don''t enjoy clinical work. That''s hard to admit. You see my parents and my mum''s family are all in the medical field. I guess around age 17 I fell into the thinking that that''s what I should be doing too.


I feel like I''ve been aimless for years. I did the wrong things for the wrong reasons. I''m trying so hard to do what I think I should do, and I''m just not getting there. I don''t feel any passion at all for it. I feel like a fraud in my current profession.


Now, it''s fine. I''m only 25 years old, I have no big debt (college is free here and I worked all holidays etc). There is no pressure on me. I am one lucky girl in that respect. But I am still driving myself crazy, knowing I''m in the wrong area and trying to figure out how to get to the right one.


I''m bright, bubbly, energetic (almost hyper), confident. I was on the student council the whole way through my university life. I loved it. I was the producer for the university musical in third year. It took all my spare time. I loved it. I love projects, I like having a number of things on the go at once. I love working, I love being busy and challenged. I''m very social, I like people, interaction. I get on well with them. I love to travel. I enjoy change. I am driven. I can be kind of bossy and opinionated.

I want a rewarding career. I want the opportunity to work my way up to a high position, to have goals and achievements. I want to feel like I''m doing something worthwhile. I want to like what I do. I want to be really, really good at it.

I miss maths. I regret not going back to do the financial maths and economics degree after first year in college.

I worry that I have a grass-is-greener complex. I feel like I''m whining. I worry I''m a weak product of the generation that has it all. Too much choice. I''m a whole big ball of anxiety and crazy at the moment

I spend all my free time researching careers and annoying everyone with questions. Luckily I''m going on a weeks holidays tomorrow, that''ll calm me down a bit I hope!


So. I KNOW I''m not the only one with career direction worries. I''ve been burning the ear off everyone I know the last few weeks, trying to get an idea of careers, lifestyles. I know we have a wonderful bunch of experienced, intelligent people here. I''m not looking for someone to tell me what to do. I''m looking for your experiences, I want to learn about your career. I mostly just want to get it all off my chest. I''ll take any opinions I can get - be they verbal (well...written) smackdowns, or words of encouragement.


Thanks in advance, PS friends.

Hi Porridge,
I studied chemical engineering, it was easy but I realised it was not my passion. Like you I was lost, even worse, you at least you know what you love doing and what motivate you. It''s very positive. Me, all what I knew was that I do not want to work in chemical engineering field. I didn''t know what I want or what I like. At the final year of my engineering study, I studied in parallel one year and half study in project management. In 18 years of my careers I managed to avoid working as "chemical engineer". It''s only thru working that I discover myself and know what I like and what I don''t. I like to meet people, to be in charge, to negotiate, to travel etc and I am very goal-driven person. I take pleasure working in projects, any kind of projects. So I always work in job involving projects.
Reading your words my interpretation is that project management would suit you as well. You like people, interaction. You like projects, indicators speak to you, goals motivate you, you love changes etc.
Project management is transverse. You can continue working in the health care industry if you want to use the knowledge you learnt at uni or work in any industry you''d like to join.
I worked in various industries during my career: water treatment (industrial and urban), cosmetics and now energy (oil & gas). Although I never really use my chemical engineering knowledge, what I learnt however has never been a waste of time at all (sure there are times, I wish I studied other subjects). After all a project is a process, it transforms things or situations into another, involving people, time and money management. It gives me that dose of adrenalin that I love. It can involve a lot of travels, sometimes too much. It''s very goal-driven and it could take various forms, always changing. It could be multicultural. Dynamic, interesting, not boring.
Don''t worry about grass-is-greener complex. I have it, I know some people who have it, we all learn to live with it. The most important thing is that we''re happy and passionate with what we are doing even if sometimes we envy others (between us, I envy lawyers and actresses

).
Hope my experiences help a little. Cheers

 

[Haven]

Hi, Porridge,

Are you in a position to take on temporary jobs in different fields so you can do some actual exploring out in the work place? I ask because I found myself feeling quite the same way when I was 23, and I kept trying on different fields only to realize that they weren''t right for me once I actually worked in them for a while.

It doesn''t sound like you have the-grass-is-greener syndrome to me, rather it sounds like you are unwilling to settle for something that is not personally fulfilling to you, and I applaud you for that.

As for me, I''m nearly 30 and I''ve *just* figured out where I want to be. Well, for the time being, at least. I''m not sure I''ll ever find something I''d like to do for 20 or 30 years, but that''s okay. I''ve tried everything from doing manual calculations with an actuarial team to personal training to law school to teaching. Now, after teaching all grades from kindergarten through grad school, I''ve decided I want to focus on teaching in a community college. I''m really happy I took the time to really figure out where I want to be, because I really do look forward to work every day.

Now that I think of it--have you looked into becoming an actuary? It''s a tough status to achieve, but it requires a head for math, and you can do pretty interesting project-based work depending on your company. I''m not sure if it''s called the same thing outside of the US, but I can tell you that I''ve never worked with goofier people than my actuarial team right outside of college. If I had a better head for math I would have pursued a career in that field. It can be very interesting if you find the right job.

Good luck to you!

 

[arjunajane]

Project Management came directly to mind from reading your post - your personality sounds perfect for it.

You could link that up easily to a medical/science field -
or go in a completely different direction. You could be more on the financial side of the management so as to use that fondness for math.


I can completely relate Porridge - I am a year older than you, still studying, and up to about three months ago had no career direction or idea of what I would want to use my degree for after graduating.
What you said career-wise "rewarding, something worthwhile, like what you do" - well, I guess they seem like they''d be on most people''s lists, but they were def. on mine.

Almost entirely by chance, I started a new job, which lead to a new network, two mentors, and a situation that opened up a whole new world for me.
I now know not just the field I''d like to work in, but the actual position and how to get there - it''s such a relief!

I am less qualified than you, and it will take me a couple of years to move into my field - but now that I have something I''m passionate about, that''s fine with me.
I guess I just wanted to let you know you are certainly not alone with your feelings, and I think you have plenty of options open to you.

Would you consider leaving physio to "test the waters" in a different industry? Is that even an option?
Again, your description of your experiences and likes really does scream project management imho.

Good luck, and don''t sweat it too much - I''m sure your "breakthrough moment" will come.

 

[pancake]

Hey Porridge - I think the themes you speak of are very common. I don't have regrets about my path, but there are a few things I've found valuable. All of them revolve around time.

The first is that I think that many people find themselves in this position because life kind of gets ahead of itself, if that makes sense. There have definitely been times when I have suddenly had a moment of "stepping outside of myself" and wondered, "What am I doing? Do I like it? How did I get here?". Fortunately for me these questions have usually been answered satisfactorily in one way or another, and I haven't had any huge crises. To combat this I think that time out is really valuable. It sounds like you are in a good position at the moment - a profession that is flexible, no university debt, supportive family. Could you go away for a few months or even a year, do something else, ease the pressure that you are currently putting on yourself and just pursue travel, new interests, whatever, for a while?

Second is that time allows you to try and really assess what is important to you and what is important to others. It sounds like you're not sure whether the pressure to be in a medical/health field is coming from yourself or somehow from undercurrents in your family. I don't come from a medical family (I am a doctor) but my partner comes from a "medical dynasty" - he used to wonder if he'd followed his family into medicine by default, or whether he really wanted it. It can be hard to know. I think healthcare is a particularly "cocooning" field - it is often hard to be able to see what is outside of it.

I think it is really fantastic that you are able to step back and see what your skills are. It sounds like you are a bright, dynamic, kind of a person who loves working with people. If clinical work in healthcare is not for you, what about medical/allied health education? There is PLENTY of room around for committed, enthusiastic and passionate educators - they are really thin on the ground! The most inspiring people I have met in my life have all been educators in some way - be it music, medical, language, anything!

The other suggestion I would have is one that it sounds like you have considered already (having seen you in the "What do you do for a living?" thread) - public health? It is a massive field, taking in health systems, field work, epidemiology, environmental health, refugee medicine, indigenous health, health advocacy, health promotion, etc etc etc - so big! There may well be something in there that you feel strongly about. An MPH would give you a taste of quite a few of these and is also a very flexible degree which can open doors.

 

[ringthings]

That''s a frustrating stage to be at. Have you read any of the ''quarterlife crisis'' books? There''s a handful out there that are good, and show how many people share your feelings.

Have you considered working at a college? Or being a high school teacher and helping with student council?
Or something? Maybe it''s the flexible schedule, learning new things, social interaction, etc. that you liked about college, and you could replicate this in a job that actually pays?

 

[bee*]

I totally agree about the points system here-it is ridiculous. I can definitely relate to a lot of what you''ve written. I missed out on veterinary in my leaving as I didn''t get the points so I did a science degree with the focus on going into graduate entry veterinary. I loved the social life of science and had an absolute ball but I didn''t really enjoy the course itself. I did the four year degree as like medicine, I needed that to apply for veterinary instead of the three year degree. I decided to work for a couple of years before applying for veterinary so I worked full time in a clinic and it definitely confirmed with me that it was what I wanted to do and so I applied and went back to college at 25. I will graduate when I''m 30 and although I detest being at this stage in my life not having started my career and having little money, I know it will be worth it in the end. I couldn''t really tell from your post if you still regret not going into medicine but if you do, would you consider applying for it now? The grad entry course if 4 years instead of 5. One of my science friends went back last year to do it after working for four years and he absolutely adores it.

 

[Porridge]

Thank you everyone for being so helpful. It is very reassuring to know I''m not the only one.

MTG that''s a good idea, listing priorities. I am motivated by high salary. Not huge, I don''t need to be rich, but I like my creature comforts. I don''t care about leaving a legacy. Helping people - well I want what I do to benefit people somehow, but it doesn''t have to be directly. That helps me rule a lot out, thank you

I''m glad to hear you are enjoying peds! See, you mightn''t have known that if you hadn''t worked there! I would like to get out and get working in a few different areas to see what is out there.

Pokemom your career sounds great! Definitely something I would be interested in. It''s reassuring to hear you''re doing so well in something other that what you studied for. Thank you

Haven Actuary. Ooh. That piqued my interest. A quick google search came up with some great websites, including a very interesting one aimed at people looking to change careers. It would probably take about 10 years to be fully qualified, but I would be working all that time. I will definitely investigate this one further. The actuary society in Ireland offers to put you in contact with actuaries which is great. Thank you.
Lucky I am in a position to have a scout around. There are literally no physio jobs in Ireland. A recent survey says 58% of 2009 physio grads are unemployed. Most of the rest have emigrated. That''s an awful situation, but it does work to my advantage right now, because a gap between physio jobs on my cv is completely reasonable.
Teaching...I don''t think I''d be great at it. I''m not very patient. Maybe down the line? I have great respect for teachers, but I think it''s like a vocation, and I don''t have the necessary qualities.

AJ project management does sound like it would fit the bill doesn''t it! Very exciting. Yes luckily I am I a position where I can test the waters. How great you found something you love! I look forward to that

Pancake yes public health is a great area. The reason I am second thinking it is because it means going back to college, and I feel like I''d rather work for a bit before committing to a masters. However application deadline isn''t til til June so it may still happen!

Ringthings - a quarter life crisis! What a great term. Maybe going through this now will take the edge off my mid life crisis, when it comes! I will look into books. Even posting here and hearing that others are having/have had the same experience is immensely reassuring. I would consider teaching later in life. I don''t believe I would be good at it now. But it is a good suggestion, thank you.

bee* I don''t regret not doing medicine...I don''t think...I mean, if I really wanted it, I would have repeated, or worked through that fourth year of science. I actually am applyng for grad med at the suggestion of my father, to keep my options open, but I don''t have much hope. I think. I suppose I just wanted to want it IYKWIM. The thought of going back to college now for 4 years, then what...6 more years training, minimum, actually terrifies me!
30 is not old at all to be graduating from veterinary. But then you''re qualified, and you know you love what you''re going into. I''m so glad for you that you love it, KNOW you love it, and went for it. Well...glad, and a weensy bit jealous

but I''ll get over that when my calling comes along.

 

[Sha]

How about marketing or some other area of business? Just a thought, as you mentioned being driven, liking challenges/projects, people interaction etc. It seems like it could fit...?

My other thought is, if you could think of your dream job, the work that you would get the most satisfaction from, what would it be?

 

[bee*]

that''s good that you''re keeping your options open and applying for med anyway. Do you have to sit the gamsat?

 

[Porridge]

sha -I don''t think I''d be very good at marketing, although it is a great career for those that are creative. My dream job...see that''s the problem, I don''t know! I suppose that''s really what I''m looking for. I like problem solving, maths, new challenges, being busy, people...I suppose that would make my dream job a mathematically based problem solver

bee* yes the GAMSATs are coming up at the end of March

studying isn''t going fab...I keep going back the the maths/reasoning part and ignoring the rest! I''m not holding out much hope, to be honest I''m not sure what I would do if I did get med. But that''s the thing, I''m not sure what the fudge I want, so yeah...all options open at the moment!

 

[ChloeTheGreat]

I don''t have any advice, but I know that these years of our lives after college/university can be discouraging.

I am 21 and I just graduated (December 2009) with a Bachelor''s degree in Finance. It''s not something I''m passionate about and I picked the business path because it seemed practical and I knew I''d be able to get a job. But here we are in this miserable economy and I can''t get a job. Yay for me. I am anxious to start my career so I can move on with my life.

These days, it is rare to see someone who does not make changes and transitions in their careers. I hope that you are able to make a choice that is right for you and is something you are passionate about. And keep in mind that there may be a great/very different opportunity a few years down the line that gives you the option to make a different choice. Wish you the best of luck.

 

[Po10472]

Apologies, I haven''t read all the replies as I''m just home from work and like a burst cushion. However, I do agree with the project management route, its an excellent tranferable skilla and you can get into different organisations covering varying topics. You could also be a consultant project manager who earn heaps. It would keep your juices flowing for sure.

However, what type of environment do you want to spend your days in, an office, a hospital ward, outdoors etc? I''m an HR Adviser and although I love my job, I hate that I''m stuck in an office indoors all day sitting down in front of a computer or in silly wee meeting rooms, I''d love to do something that gets me outdoors. Why don''t you consider making a change by working part-time and studying part-time or doing volunteer work. Sometimes a transitional period is easier to manage cos you try out different things to see what you like.

Alternatively, look at taking a sabbatical/career break for 3 months and go travel, clear your head and see how you feel when you have the prospect of coming home.

There are lots of options available to you, its how you use your time to figure out what you''re going to do is the big ask.

 

[noelwr]

you asked for experiences, so here''s mine:

I learned that being part of the work force is nothing like university life. I studied International Management, but I always had an interest in IT (by the end of college I regretted not studying IT). Well, your first job can''t be as a manager because you need to gain experience first. I had to start as a team assistant because I just didn''t have any work experience, but then I quickly got into logistics which suited me because I am organized and good at planning. I did that for 3-4 years but quickly found out that I don''t like to make small talk with customers and vendors. However, I really did like the computer system we use (SAP), and wanted to know how that works. My manager sent me on a SAP course where I certified as a consultant and then become the department''s system coordinator which entailed trying to solve system issues first, establishing a good relationship with the Help Desk so that our issues get solved quickly and also seeking to improve the system processes for the business. Then a role opened up in the IT team where I actually got to configure the system and work closely with consultants to learn so I applied and got it. I was actually considered senior because of my business knowledge. A few months later it was announced that we would be outsourcing all our SAP work, but there was a system standardization project which I was asked to join which will take years and I''m still part of now. However, I no longer get to configure the system nor learn how to.

I actually applied for a job at SAP to find out if I could pursue a career as a consultant, but as I don''t have configuration experience I''d have to start from the bottom and take a serious pay cut. Not gonna happen. I have to figure out what I want to do once there is no longer project work for me to do. I don''t want to go back into the business, but there isn''t much in the way of SAP left for internal employees to do.

So that''s the career path so far. What I want to say is that right now I don''t have the interest to manage a team anymore. It''s great to put a team together and draw upon everyone''s strengths... but these are human beings and they have feelings, thoughts, mood swings... The first team I was in was mostly women, and half of them would bring their problems to the office. If something bad happened, like someone didn''t pass her driving exam, you couldn''t speak to her for days! I never bring my personal life to work. My manager said I should be more understanding, but I just can''t understand that if I am able to leave that at home, why can''t others??? So I don''t want to deal with the "human" part of being a manager. Furthermore, you can manage a team of people and the experts in your team actually earn more than you. With my SAP background, I''d rather be one of those experts.

So what''s the purpose of this long story? To let you know that whatever you might decide you want to do now... once you''re doing it, it might change. And that''s ok. Go and experience different things and let that guide you through your career. And also sometimes you might be doing something you don''t like, just because there''s no alternative and you need to stay employed in order to pay your bills.

And by the way, it''s not easy. I had to work my ass off in the logistics job to prove to my manager that I was worth sending to an expensive course half way around the world to certify as a consultant in something completely different. He also put his ass on the line for me. If I hadn''t passed the exam, they could have stopped investing in employees all together. Make sure you always keep your promises and people will respect you. Stand up for yourself and never let anyone walk all over you.

 

[Porridge]

ChloeTheGreat thanks for the support, I do feel very reassured and more relaxed after posting here, and talking to everyone who''ll listen! I wish you all the success I want for myself in finding something.

Po10472 I would prefer an office-based job I think. I like having my own space to work on things, my own little organisational system. I''d like the opportunity to leave that office every now and then though! Meetings, travel etc.
You''re right, I''ve loads of time, I can go and experience a bunch of things. As I said, of course the recession is an awful thing, but it''s advantage is that is provides a great excuse for job hopping, or even a gap in the cv.

Noelwr - THANK YOU for the advice and wisdom! Again, it''s massively reassuring to know I don''t have to have a direct path my whole life. It''s fine to want other things and to change. I hope you find something as enjoyable as your current project!
btw off topic we''ve planned that Amsterdam trip for queens day weekend! It''s going to be hectic, but the girls wanted a Dutch experience, so...

 

[Porridge]

Just wanted to update all of you who were kind enough to read through my thesis and provide advice

I''ve talked and talked and talked to everyone who''ll listen, spent hours researching careers and taking psychometric tests and generally worrying myself into an anxiety ridden frenzy. Most unlike me, I didn''t enjoy it one bit.

Anyway, I thought about what I really wanted to do and what I was good at, what motivated me, where I wanted to get to in 10 years, 20 years etc. I''ve narrowed my options down to two choices, thanks in no small part to all of your help. My apologies for copying and pasting, I posted the following already on another thread in reply to ArjunaJane.

Choice one: Actuary. It''s what I always wanted to do deep down. Haven, when you mentioned it above, I thought yup, she''s got it, that''s what I was thinking too. But I won''t lie, I''m scared! It''s a tough career path for sure. But it ticks all my boxes, and I''m not afraid of hard work. I''m meeting a couple of actuaries in my area next week for advice, which I''m really looking forward to. This is the one my mum is rooting for, she thinks it''s perfect for me, she says I should just stop worrying, have a bit of confidence in myself and go for it.

Choice two: enter a graduate training program, probably with a healthcare company. This would give me good exposure and experience, and I could get some qualifications along the way. At the end of that I''d probably go for an MBA.

Again, thank you all.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

You're definitely making progress, Porridge, and good for you for being so proactive!

My husband is an actuary who just got his fellowship last year (he was 29 and started the tests around age 22). There are many pros and cons to being an actuary, but if you ever want to talk about it, I'm sure he'd be very happy to post. I'd say the biggest pro is a stable career with a sizeable salary and the biggest con is the sheer amount of work it takes to get one's fellowship. My husband is a very smart man who graduated from college with a math degree as a teenager with a perfect GPA, but getting his fellowship was sheer torture. There were many, many months of getting 3 hours of sleep per night...for years on end. He did take a 6-month break when he was heavily considering getting his PhD in physics, but ultimately decided to go back and finish the exams. Anyway, it's a very challenging career, but it could be perfect for you!

 

[Porridge]

Thank you NEL! It would take a lot of consideration before choosing that path, for those reasons. I expect it must become of the toughest things out there to try to do. And I do not have a mathematical degree. I''m sure I''ll have a clearer idea next week after meeting with a few people.

I do have a couple of questions actually! Seeing as the success rate is pretty low, what do those who don''t get past say 5 exams do?? Do they keep trying? Can they stay associates all their lives? Are they stuck in actuary at that point or could they progress in another career? I presume they''d still be pretty valuable in the finance world.

NOT that I plan to fail were I to go for it. But it seems smart to be aware before jumping in

 

[NewEnglandLady]

That''s the thing about the exams--once you get four or five under your belt, you think you should keep pushing to get past exam 7 so you can get your associateship. Then once you get past 7 (which has notoriously been the most difficult exam for years, though I think they are changing it slightly), you think "I should really push for my fellowship". There are people who get past a few and decide that it''s just not the career path for them. D had several coworkers who decided to pursue other careers after finishing a few exams. Several of them went into underwriting since it''s somewhat similar work, but you don''t need to continue the exams.

After D got through about 5 exams he went into consulting (at E&Y). He had a colleague there who did not have his fellowship and was no longer taking exams. Another friend of his went to PWC after several exams with no plan to finish them. I don''t think either of them were planning to stay in actuarial consulting for an extended period of time since a person generally needs at least his/her associateship in order to advance, but it was good for their resume while they figured out what they wanted to do next. Other people have gone into teaching, investment banking, economics, etc.

To me you seem like a very bubbly, energetic, smart lady who might enjoy having some creativity in her career (since you did love producing your university musical). I will be very up front and tell you that actuarial work is extremely detail-oriented and I know that my husband feels that he can get buried in the everyday minutiae of his job. Checking work is never-ending and there is absolutely no creative outlet. I do think you might enjoy consulting since it would allow you to travel and you get to work on more interesting projects, but after a few years you may get tired of the 70+ hour weeks, especially if you are studying for exams on top of that. I''m not trying to put actuarial work in a negative light because it''s definitely a good career path for those who are very driven and love a challenge, but the amount of attention to detail it demands coupled with a lack of any creativity and the demands of putting hundreds of hours into studying for each exam can wear a person out pretty quickly. As you climb the ladder, you can start to focus on more interesting and possibly more creative work, but the first several years can be very draining.

There is an actuarial forum (actuarialoutpost.com) where you might find some valuable information since many posters are those considering actuarial work.

D has gone to a few colleges and given presentations to actuarial students about what the work is like once you are in the industry. He claims it''s interesting because times are changing. When he was young, he stumbled into being an actuary. He was just a guy with a math degree and we happened to live across the street from a large insurance company. A job he really wanted fell through and he decided to go across the street and do some actuarial work because it paid well and he wanted to do something while he figured out his next step. And then he stayed, haha. These days, most entry-level positions are filled with actuarial students who already have 2+ exams under their belts. In fact, his company doesn''t hire any entry-level actuaries who don''t have exams already completed. I would definitely ask the actuaries you are interviewing about the hiring process. Either their personal experience getting hired or if they are now in a position where they are hiring new actuaries, what the requirements are.

Other things I would consider is weighing the pros and cons of different fields. For instance, there are property and casualty actuaries, life and heath actuaries, annuities and investment actuaries, pension actuaries etc. It''s good to get experience in all fields, but usually you''d specialize one.

Okay, I''ve definitely written a novel. I''m glad you''re speaking with a couple of actuaries who are already in the field. I can''t wait to hear what you decide--I''m in my late twenties and am still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up

 

[Porridge]

NEL this is fantastic, thank you so much. One of the actuaries I'm meeting is a consultant, that does sound like interesting work. You're right about detail-oriented work, that wouldn't be one of my strong points! I suppose it's a matter of finding out if that's a drawback in so far as every job has them, or if it would make me unsuitable.

I have a couple more q's! Do you mind?? I'll have nothing left to ask them next week haha.
Would I be at a massive disadvantage not having a maths degree? Physiotherapy is about as far removed as I can think of! Although I'm sure I can find ways to make it sound useful in a potential interview

Is it an especially tough field for women? I'm only 25, and single, but it's a long old road and I do hope to pop a couple of sprogs some day.

The next exams here are in September. The plan would be, once decided, to study for that and see how I get on before thinking of applying for a position or quitting my current job. So really I have quite a while yet before I jump ship. I don't want employers to think I'm a total flake, so September was always my aim for the big change. Also gives me time to get any possible work experience.

 

[vespergirl]

I''m coming to this post late, but I think that you should go back to school for a graduate degree. Do it now before you have kids - I always planned to take a year off after I got my BA & then go back to grad school, but life happened, and here I am 11 years later with still no Masters. I do still plan to go back, but I will be in my mid to late 30s by the time it actually happens, and I''ll be juggling a husband and two kids at the same time. Do it now while you have the opportunity.

You mentioned that you like math & science. Are you in the US? If so, the American Association of University Women always has scholarships available for women to go into hard science, math & engineering fields.

Good luck!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 2/19/2010 4:00:30 AM
Author: Porridge
NEL this is fantastic, thank you so much. One of the actuaries I''m meeting is a consultant, that does sound like interesting work. You''re right about detail-oriented work, that wouldn''t be one of my strong points! I suppose it''s a matter of finding out if that''s a drawback in so far as every job has them, or if it would make me unsuitable.

I have a couple more q''s! Do you mind?? I''ll have nothing left to ask them next week haha.
Would I be at a massive disadvantage not having a maths degree? Physiotherapy is about as far removed as I can think of! Although I''m sure I can find ways to make it sound useful in a potential interview

Is it an especially tough field for women? I''m only 25, and single, but it''s a long old road and I do hope to pop a couple of sprogs some day.

The next exams here are in September. The plan would be, once decided, to study for that and see how I get on before thinking of applying for a position or quitting my current job. So really I have quite a while yet before I jump ship. I don''t want employers to think I''m a total flake, so September was always my aim for the big change. Also gives me time to get any possible work experience.

Oh good, I''m glad you''re meeting with a consultant--it will give you more insight into consulting vs. working at an insurance company. My husband started out with an insurance company, then did consulting and is now back at an insurance company.

I do think that companies are looking for students who graduated in math, statistics, actuarial science or even something like physics, but as long as they know those are areas you''ve studied, I don''t think it would be a disadvantage to have a physiotherapy degree. I think that taking the first exam before applying is probably a very wise decision. It will also allow you to continue to explore your other option (healthcare grad programs/MBA). The first exam is purely math/statistics (no actuarial work), so if you pass that, then the fact that you have a different degree won''t be as relevant.

In terms of being a woman, we can break that into two parts: 1. Is there any disadvantage to being a female actuary and 2. How do you balance wanting to be a mom with actuarial work. Being a female is no disadvantage at all. Half of the actuaries my husband manages are women. Also, when I went with my husband to the fellowship ceremony this year, a very large proportion (I''d say over 25%) of new fellows were women. I think it''s fantastic!

Balancing the exams with family is a much more difficult question. When D started taking his exams we made a pact that he would finish the exams before we started a family. Again, it was very common for D to get up 5 a.m., study for a couple of hours before work, then work from 8 - 8, then study from around 9 p.m. to 2 a.m. For months. And the exams were every six months, so he''d only get a month or two off between exams. This was all fine and dandy when we were in our young twenties and living in an apartment in the city, but as we got older it started to get tougher. We got a dog, we moved to a house in the ''burbs, we got married. It became increasingly difficult for him to live on 3 hours of sleep for half of the year and he got very tired of not being able to spend more time with me and the dogs. We knew that there was NO way we could live like this and have a baby. Also, the problem here in the U.S. is that while exams 1 - 6 are offered every 6 months, exams 7 - 9 are only offered once a year. So for instance, if he had failed this last exam last spring, he wouldn''t be able to take it again until this year. If we''d planned to want to start TTC last year, we would have had to put it off for a whole year. This is why we didn''t make any solid TTC plans until after he passed the last one, haha!

D''s old boss was a woman who had kids before finishing her exams. She was determined to finish the exams, but she had to take the last one three times because she just did not have enough time to study. So instead of finishing the exams in her young 30s like she''d planned, she was around 36 when she finished. D''s current boss is also a woman, but she doesn''t have kids. I think anybody would tell you that it is ideal to get the exams out of the way before having kids, but it''s not impossible to finish them and have kids, it would just likely take a bit longer.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 2/9/2010 12:45:49 PM
Author: Porridge
sha -I don''t think I''d be very good at marketing, although it is a great career for those that are creative. My dream job...see that''s the problem, I don''t know! I suppose that''s really what I''m looking for. I like problem solving, maths, new challenges, being busy, people...I suppose that would make my dream job a mathematically based problem solver

bee* yes the GAMSATs are coming up at the end of March

studying isn''t going fab...I keep going back the the maths/reasoning part and ignoring the rest! I''m not holding out much hope, to be honest I''m not sure what I would do if I did get med. But that''s the thing, I''m not sure what the fudge I want, so yeah...all options open at the moment!

Porridge - just because what you described above "mathemetically based problem solver" sounds an awful lot like what I do, take a peek at Management Consulting as a career option. Its extremely challenging, but involves a lot of what you are looking for - work is almost always in teams, plenty of math, lots of problem solving, travel, challenges, and good salary. Its a very competitive field to get into with the top firms, but they are increasingly hiring people with diverse backgrounds.

I actually have a PhD in biomedical sciences (Immunology) but now work in management consulting, so its definitely possible to make even a dramatic change if you are determined enough.