Canuk-Gal''s Answer to Criteria/Parameter''s for Gem Search..

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Hello Pricescope Community: Since this is largely a like minded community..Canuk-Gal...Sharon posted a inquiry on my thread for in the Who's Who Forum and thought I would post her question here with my response in hopes other CONSUMER'S and VENDOR'S will share their insight also. Not everyone shares the same experience or has the same way of doing things. I think it would be great if vendor's added their insight also..

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Date: 10/19/2006 6:14:28 PM
Author: canuk-gal
HI Josh:

If you don't mind, I wanted to ask if you wouldn't mind sharing some details about your searches for your latest acquisitions; the red spinel and ruby. Thing is, I am in the market for both (ruby for sure) and noticed that you recently bought two beauties. I am jealous!

I am wondering how long it took you to find what you wanted, and what criteria/parameters you used for your gem purchases. Please share any details you find relevant.

Thanking you in advance.

cheers--Sharon
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Well Sharon I don't mind at all.

The parameters I used for searching was the 5 plus years of educating myself on colored gemstones and seeing many different beautiful gemstones. I am also in the interim of taking courses through GIA for my GG. I have compiled a list of great sites posted on the forum to help others too. When I know what I want and need to look for what I want I usually use the same avenues I have in the past. Personally, I have found some of the finest stones from Pala.... Acstones.com is also a nice place to look.
My Method: (lol)

Establish a Criteria:

The Biggest 3 things you will need to take into account is Budget, Broker, and Educating yourself on making a successful purchase.

QAULITY/BUDGET

: This is easy for me. I buy gems on quality no matter what the size is. I figure out what kind of shape I am looking for and than ask a broker for the best no matter how big the stone might end up. For instance the ruby I recently received was well..expensive, but it also is one of the best rubies I will ever see. I want the best quality for my budget. If I want a gem for example a blue sapphire, I will tell my broker, I have "x" amount of dollars to spend and I want the best gem no matter what size it is in a given (particular shape). I think it is important to be flexible and easy to work with. I usually know where to go. I always establish a few things. What my budget is going to be and what broker to work with.

BROKER: There are many different places to look, but I would go with an established vendor or broker which you might see posting on this forum who might have extensive knowledge on colored stones, with a great internet presence and established website with positive feedback on the forum. Look at their credentials...Is the vendor established with good credentials? I like going with a vendor who is at bare minimum a Graduate Gemologist with trade and retail experience.

A good broker will need to know (1) What your looking for (if you don't already know) (2) What is your pricerange..A good broker will listen to your needs and let you set your price without asking. After listening to your needs a broker might say "Now that I know what your needs are...What do you see yourself spending so I know what to work with" Trust is a big issue Sharon. If you trust your Vendor he will know what he has to work with coupled with not trying to take advantage of the situation on jacking up the price to pocket every last one of your dimes..(lol) After All a good broker will try to accommodate you in every way to keep you returning. A good broker knows creating long term residual income from treating someone right will go a long way from ripping you off the first time and having you not come back.

Wink is a great gem broker and probably my top choice. I don't mean to sing praises and convey great accolades about him, but he is trustworthy and attentive. I think this is probably one of the biggest hurdles in your search in finding what you want. If you convey your thoughts right away and trust your broker he can expedite what you want fast.
I buy 2 different ways. One if I see something I just cannot live without from a trusted website, I go with it and buy the stone if I can afford it. After all who knows when the next best gem you have your eyes set on will come along (lol) Bare with me Sharon some people drink..other's do drug's...I buy gems (lol)..If your in a relationship it is good to get your partners approval too..(LMAO)

EDUCATING YOURSELF:Afterall Once you Have educated yourself and have found a good vendor...Conveying your needs in the proper way to your trusted vendor will expedite what you want. A good thing to keep in mind is to be patient too. Most of the time I can find what I want or need right away because I know of many different sources to Work with. If you just have to have the best 3-carat, golden-yellow whisky sapphire there is be prepared to wait a little. Most brokers know where to go right away, but on occasions there sources will just not have the gem to satisfy your needs. This doesn't mean the particular broker isn't worthy, it just means it will take a little more time to find what you want. I have had brokers in the past tell me Josh what your looking for is not currently available through my sources, but a gem of "x" quality is rare and will eventually make it's way onto the market. DO you mind waiting...?" If not they will also offer you an alternative like..Josh that beautiful Cushion Cut Tsavorite is not available right now, but I have a Asccher that will knock your socks off...Or I'll tell you what...I will keep you updated and looking...The Tucson Gem show is coming up and we will be sure to find what your looking for there.

The other way is educating and browsing and deciding on what you might want. For instance..Josh might say to himself..."I would like a pink sapphire for my wife". I would know what to look for and tell my vendor this is what I need and this is how much I have to spend.
The biggest part is educating yourself on what you want. If you want a Burmese red-spinel...Take your time and research everything you can find on spinel. Go and look at different gems or have your broker call in different gems so you can see many different stones. This is the most important thing in searching out what you want.
Once you have educated yourself you will have a better understanding what you’re looking for which will build the foundation for your entire purchase.

Patience is huge and some gems can be very rare...Especially in the finer qualities...So keep this in mind when looking and try to be a little flexible too without compromising on the main objectives of your purchase.

In answering your 2nd question how long it took me to find what I want.....Sharon once you have the criteria and method for your search set I would say 90% of the time I can get what I want or an outstanding alternative in 2-weeks or less. Like I said earlier larger, more rare gems can take longer and your priorities add to this equation. For instance if I was to say I have $50,000 and I want the finest 10 carat Tsavorite the market has to offer...Be prepared to wait...You may not only have to wait, but you may also have to adjust your expectations..

Sharon...Now look what you got started girl..I haven't spit that much out in quite a while.. If you need any help let me know. Are you currently looking for anything?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

WOW! Josh, thanks! Excellent points!

I am following in your footsteps--LOL--and have researched gemsites galore. I have seen, online, some wonderful things and have made some connections regarding the same. No decisions yet, as you suggest, I must really be convinced I am satisfying all my needs; namely for fine quality.

Thing is, buying online can be tricky. We have read, numerous times, how disapponted people are in receiving colored stones whose color it "not what they''d hoped". Because of differences in perceived color, not being able to evaluate preference in person, is a big concern. But of course, this is where having a relationship with someone you trust comes in handy. Establishing a rapport goes a long way. And I related to what you said about return business; makes sense intuitively.

Another point--what about pedigree and documentation? It is true that only about 10% of colored stones are traded with lab certification?

Again, thank you Josh, for your input. I hope to posess a dreamy ruby, Imperial Topaz and possibly a red spinel. Not tooooo much to ask?

cheers--Sharon

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Date: 10/21/2006 11:57:30 AM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:

WOW! Josh, thanks! Excellent points!

I am following in your footsteps--LOL--and have researched gemsites galore. I have seen, online, some wonderful things and have made some connections regarding the same. No decisions yet, as you suggest, I must really be convinced I am satisfying all my needs; namely for fine quality.

Thing is, buying online can be tricky. We have read, numerous times, how disapponted people are in receiving colored stones whose color it 'not what they'd hoped'. Because of differences in perceived color, not being able to evaluate preference in person, is a big concern. But of course, this is where having a relationship with someone you trust comes in handy. Establishing a rapport goes a long way. And I related to what you said about return business; makes sense intuitively.

Another point--what about pedigree and documentation? It is true that only about 10% of colored stones are traded with lab certification?

Again, thank you Josh, for your input. I hope to posess a dreamy ruby, Imperial Topaz and possibly a red spinel. Not tooooo much to ask?

cheers--Sharon

Your Welcome Sharon:

I think working with a good vendor/broker is paramount. They will not pressure you to make a purchase and sometimes it might be a little tedius for them to call in stone's and I think if your paying the shipping a good vendor will call in as many stones as you want to look ar before you purchase. I understand your concerns about "Perceived Color". This of course is one of the drawbacks of using an on-line vendor who is not local. The bigger issue in the industry is finding a reputable vendor who meets all the criteria you set forth to make your purchase who has extensive knowledge in the gem market, trading, and themselves a certified gemmologist.

Again I understand your perceived fear working on-line, but the truth is on-line you can branch out and have more access to many more qualified industry professionals which are more than experienced and would be more than willing to accomodate your needs. Find a vendor who has a good rep, stocks his own inventory, who is educated and has a good working knowledge of the industry and doesn't mind how many times you send a stone back and call a new one in to make you happy.

PEDIGREE & DOCUMENTATION:

What about it? I think it is a very important assett if your making a big investment which is largely dependent on certain qualities and the true representation of the characteristics a gem is marketed as. It is true that most of the gems on the market are traded without certification, but you also have to consider the market. A large magority of the gems on the commercial market are commercial grade gem's. The Connoisseur is few and far between the average person buying gem's. The demand is not high for a large magority of the market, because the truth is really rare, beautiful high quality gem's exist...Just not in the quantities of the majority of the gems being traded in the market. Couple this with "Joe Blow" who doesn't know but just want's a BLU SAPPHIRE for his wife, the demand really isn't there.

The Gia,AGL, Gebelin Lab in Switzerland, and AGTA are regarded in the industry as respectable Lab's, but I would put more weight on getting an independent appraisal done to assess "THE QUALITY" of the gem coupled with using one or more of these labs. These labs have standardized color grading system's, but lack the quality analysis which is important when your shelling out your own bucks for a gem(So & So) says is the "Best". It is also important to outline certain labs outline the treatments present in gems from heat (example sapphires) to oil's and filler's which might be present (example:emerald's)

I think if your purchasing for example a blue sapphire which you know is heated and don't care and is marketed as "heated",it really shouldn't be too big of an issue to get it certed. Appraised..Yes..Certed...Probably Not.

If your set on buying an untreated gem which also carriers the premium and being marketed from a certain locale I think using a Lab to certify region & treatments is a must. 2ndly based on the concrete reports veifying origin and treatments I would also get an independent appraisal done to verify fair market value based which is where the assessment of the "quality Assessment" based on the gems characteristics and features the gem possesses which comes into play filling the void the labs leave out.

If I am going to purchase a exquisite 3-Carat Burmese Ruby which is also marketed natural, you can damn well bet I will get a lab to cert. origin, treatments and get a trusted appraiser to give me a fair market value for the stone based on the qouted price. So....$200-5 Carat Peridot from a trusted vendor for your loved ones custom piece...Don't Bother...A highly prized gem which is a worthy investment...You BET!

I hope you own your dreamy ruby one-day. Besides the well known Burma, Vietnam, Thalaind rubies there is also awesome material out of Afghanistan. I recently saw a stone that would blow your socks off. Topaz is my birthstone and I too would like a beautiful Imperial Topaz, but I'm not partial at all to the color..

I'm not sure why it just doesn't suit my fancy..(lol)

LET'S GIVE SHARON SOME FEEDBACK FROM CONSUMER"S AND TRADE MEMBER'S ALIKE.

 

[maxspinel]

Hi,
I think I''ll also pitch in based on my personal experience. Like Josh, I am also taking the GIA course, hoping to receive a G.G. someday. However, w/o taking classes, there are a lot of information out there about gems.

1) Get Educated: This is the most important area. There is a subtle difference between a top color than an average color, when it is too dark and when it is just right. You can go to the Library to check out gem books or buy them online or via book store. However, learning form the books is not sufficient. One can go to the gem shows which only cause $7 a ticket and get some first hand exposures to different types of gems. There is no better experience than actually seeing the gemstones in person. There are vendors all over the States that will attend the gem show.

2) Buy from a vendor with a good return policy: Gemstones, unlike white diamonds, cannot be easily assessed based on specifications or description. It is especially hard to assess color on a TV monitor; therefore, it would be ideal if you can find a wholesale vendor that is local or via a gem show where you can see the stones in person. However, this might not be possible since supply can be extremly limited. Buying online can open you to more selection but the internet vendors have to be reputable with a good return policy.

3) Certification and Appraisal: If you are going to spend a large amount of money, then certification from a reputable lab would be desired. An expert in this case cannot replace the value of a certificate. Also, with a lot of money at stake, besides the certificate, you''ll still need to see an independent appraiser to confirm the certficate and the stone.

As far as the Ruby and Red spinels that you are interested in, I actually have both. The color tend to change in different lighting so make sure you view them in both daylight and incandescent light. The Burmese retain the color the best due to the red flouroscence but they do carry a premium. Please note that not all Burmese flouroscent red and some marble based rubies besides Burmese also exhibit this fine characteristic. Fine rubies are insanely expensive nowadays. Stop light red spinels are very hard to find and so far I''ve only seen one (sadly it is not mine, I was going to buy it but I waited a little too long

) . The rest either have too much orange or too much brown, or the tone is too dark. These are very rare gemstones and if one meets your criteria comes up, be prepared to snatch it righway becasue if you don''t, somebody will. Good luck and have fun finding your dream stones. As for me, once I satisfy one dream, another one opens up. There is always a bigger, better, newer and more beautiful gem somehwere in the horizon waiting for me.

Max

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Maxspinel--thanks for your input! The return policy is very important, and see that most online vendors have a stated one. Buying across the Canadian border adds a bit more anxiety since the packages are opened and resealed as Customs inspects them...and good insurance is necessary.

cheers--Sharon

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am probably going to get into colored stones soon, as I have always loved them and would like to have quality colored gemstones and well as diamonds. Not to mention I can''t afford to stay with diamonds alone! This hobby can be expensive!!

But what I want to clarify is, is it safe to choose a stone myself based on the grading that you see on a site such as the Natural Sapphire Company or do I go through a vendor such as Wink or Gary? Does it not add to the cost to do it that way, or are they getting a disount on the stone so that I am not paying two mark-ups?

 

[Stone Hunter]

Date: 11/3/2006 10:20:25 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I am probably going to get into colored stones soon, as I have always loved them and would like to have quality colored gemstones and well as diamonds. Not to mention I can''t afford to stay with diamonds alone! This hobby can be expensive!!

But what I want to clarify is, is it safe to choose a stone myself based on the grading that you see on a site such as the Natural Sapphire Company or do I go through a vendor such as Wink or Gary? Does it not add to the cost to do it that way, or are they getting a disount on the stone so that I am not paying two mark-ups?

Yes I want to know this too. I am following in DS''s footsteps. Have diamond. Have setting. OH colored stones are pretty too!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I fell in love with a beautiful ruby today, 2.31 carats, Burmese, oval, heat trreatment only. I viewed 8 loose stones (6 ovals, one round and one EC) and out of these only two sang to me; the other a 1.60 oval. I will see more on Monday.

I really liked having the opportunity to see the stones under the microscope, they were all unique with very different personalities. I looked for an hour, in different lighting conditions and I could have stayed longer but for another engagement!!! What a trip these colored babies are

.......

cheers--Sharon

 

[widget]

Wow, Sharon....that sounds great!!!

How neat that you got to see an ''array'' of them....that doesn''t happen too often. Where were they? A gem show? a B&B? 2.31cts??? that''s a big ''un, ruby-wise!!

Hee hee...lots of questions...do you think you might get it? If you go back to look again, take your camera!!

widget

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 11/8/2006 9:08:05 PM
Author: widget
Wow, Sharon....that sounds great!!!

How neat that you got to see an ''array'' of them....that doesn''t happen too often. Where were they? A gem show? a B&B? 2.31cts??? that''s a big ''un, ruby-wise!!

Hee hee...lots of questions...do you think you might get it? If you go back to look again, take your camera!!

widget

HI:

Widget--I know I never thought I''d see so many at once, but more than one supplier provided the stones. And, yes, it was at a B & M. All of the stones but for one, were in in the 1.6 carat range, so the larger one really, ahem, stood out.....

I am taking my time with this, but I quite liked what I saw today...but there is no rush.

cheers--Sharon