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Can't decide in Australia. Best 1 carat.

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mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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My girl is going to prefer that i build a clinical practice over 5% sparkle she has no idea isn't even there. She isn't the type to go digging into the specs of a diamond. She will see excellent on the grading report and think everyone here is likely cooked. She came from wealth. Totally shuns it. The more likely senario is that she is going to flip her lid that i spent so much money.

I just don't know. I worked in the bicycle industry for alot of years. And i know the people on the bicycle forums are the 0.1 percent of the hyper geeks who only ever read specs....have owned like 2 bikes and rarely...rarely understand the reality of working day to day with 5 or 6 $20,000 bicycles day in day out for years. You guys have seen in person what 10, 20, 50 diamonds? The guys at the shop have seen 20 a day...every day....for 20 years.

I looked at about 10 different diamonds in a few different stores....i couldn't tell the difference between any of them I don't know what to tell you. I like the guy and his son, i like building relationships with people. 32.5 vs 34 degree crown angle...59% table vs 57% table? If a guy came into the bikeshop adamant that when he test rode two bikes he could tell the difference between a 72 degree headtube angle and a 73.5 degree headtube angle. I would know he was a complete mental patient.

I'll talk to the guy at the diamond store but i think there is recourse to think you people are too persnickety. I'll even show him this thread if he wants to look. Why would the guy who runs the business with his son, risk his 5 star google rating to sell people dull diamonds.

Long story short at this point i don't know who to trust. And im flat out not ordering online. Not interested.

Oh...i wouldn't worry about the car. Her parents bought us a Porsche Macan. The 0-60 is respectable.
Hmmm. The thing is - I don't really care if she came from wealth or not. That's not the problem here. Don't care what car you drive. And I'm guessing you're dealing with a jeweler - not a person specializing in diamonds. Anyone here could tell you the difference between a jeweler and a diamond expert - and it's a lot.

You're allowed to make whatever mistakes you want - and good luck to you. And perhaps, as you say, neither you nor your girl are able to tell the difference between an ideal cut diamond and one that sits somewhere around 'ordinary-to-pleasant'. And if that's the case - no skin off your nose, granted.

However, probably best not to come ask for help and waste our time if anything less than a pat on the head and oohs and aahs is going to offend you. And pissing contests always make a person look ridiculous.

Good luck to you and best wishes going forward.
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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As a clinical psychologist, I agree with this and find it offensive.
Ditto this and me too.

Developmental psych here, tho I've specialized for many years in dispute resolution. So when I say "pissing contests always make a person look ridiculous", that actually *is* my professional opinion!

Chuckling here.... :mrgreen:

Waving and sending professional greetings to you, @lovedogs! :wavey:
 
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Hmmm. The thing is - I don't really care if she came from wealth or not. That's not the problem here. Don't care what car you drive. And I'm guessing you're dealing with a jeweler - not a person specializing in diamonds. Anyone here could tell you the difference between a jeweler and a diamond expert - and it's a lot.

You're allowed to make whatever mistakes you want - and good luck to you. And perhaps, as you say, neither you nor your girl are able to tell the difference between an ideal cut diamond and one that sits somewhere around 'ordinary-to-pleasant'. And if that's the case - no skin off your nose, granted.

However, probably best not to come ask for help and waste our time if anything less than a pat on the head and oohs and aahs is going to offend you. And pissing contests always make a person look ridiculous.

Good luck to you and best wishes going forward.
Pissing contests make people look ridiculous? I think you missed the irony. Isn't that all this place is?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Pissing contests make people look ridiculous? I think you missed the irony. Isn't that all this place is?
You really arent making yourself look better with this behavior. You didnt want to do the work to find an ideal diamond, which is absolutely fine. But rather than admitting that truth, you decided to attack and belittle.
 
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You really arent making yourself look better with this behavior. You didnt want to do the work to find an ideal diamond, which is absolutely fine. But rather than admitting that truth, you decided to attack and belittle.
Did you even read my post? I didn't mean to infer anyone here was a mental patient. Only that it was a possibility. Haha. I said i had doubt based on previous experience. If i am honest. I don't know how to gauge the people on here and their level of persnikiteyness and if it is relevant. I said i will have a chat to the guy at the store. I think he is honest.

I'm my clinical practice I plan to teach people to cultivate invulnerability to offence. I personally am sceptical when people claim they are "offended". I think it's often manipulative. Anyway. I'm out. Thanks again. Even though you don't believe i'm grateful i am. Thank you. And good luck and health. (particularly mental health)
 
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Crazie4Cuts

Shiny_Rock
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448
Hello @SirWankalot, let me suggest and provide a highly regarded jewelry diamond expert in Melbourne. Maybe too far away from you physically, but you can chat on the phone and talk? You can maybe even share info with him and see what he has in stock? He’s the guy who invented the HCA online grading system, Garry Holloway! Here’s his website: https://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/about/garry-holloway/

Hope this kind suggestion will be helpful.
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
7,402
Hello @SirWankalot, let me suggest and provide a highly regarded jewelry diamond expert in Melbourne. Maybe too far away from you physically, but you can chat on the phone and talk? You can maybe even share info with him and see what he has in stock? He’s the guy who invented the HCA online grading system, Garry Holloway! Here’s his website: https://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/about/garry-holloway/

Hope this kind suggestion will be helpful.
@Crazie4Cuts -

He's already bought the stone and is committed to the one retailer.
 

Crazie4Cuts

Shiny_Rock
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Oct 9, 2014
Messages
448
One more comment @SirWankalot - I am sure once you have the Diamond in hand why not get a 2nd opinion from someone other than your jeweler? It would make sense and also give you confidence in your purchase so go ask (or better yet bring the diamond to show him) Garry since you use his HCA tool! You’ll enjoy meeting him and actually ’geek’ out about how he developed the tool which we all use here!
 

Crazie4Cuts

Shiny_Rock
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448
@Crazie4Cuts -

He's already bought the stone and is committed to the one retailer.
Hopefully, OP may contact Garry anyway to get a second opinion. If things don’t work out, I hope his retailer has a good return policy if he is unsatisfied with his purchase. @SirWankalot it never hurts to get a second opinion and spending $11,000 AUD is a lot of money not to be 100% satisfied! Be sure to ask your jeweler about their return policy...
-C4C
 
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C

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One more comment @SirWankalot - I am sure once you have the Diamond in hand why not get a 2nd opinion from someone other than your jeweler? It would make sense and also give you confidence in your purchase so go ask (or better yet bring the diamond to show him) Garry since you use his HCA tool! You’ll enjoy meeting him and actually ’geek’ out about how he developed the tool which we all use here!
Thanks for still reaching out despite my defensiveness. I have only gotten the guy to order it he said it would take 2 weeks. I am sure i could pay some kind of restocking fee. I would like to try and work with him though he has thousands of diamonds in the list of ones he can order. I am gping in to have a chat with him. Hes going to think im cooked. But let me see what he says.
 
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Hopefully, OP may contact Garry anyway to get a second opinion. If things don’t work out, I hope his retailer has a good return policy if he is unsatisfied with his purchase. @SirWankalot it never hurts to get a second opinion and spending $11,000 AUD is a lot of money not to be 100% satisfied! Be sure to ask your jeweler about their return policy...
-C4C
I mean ultimately the HCA tool said it was worth buying?
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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I mean ultimately the HCA tool said it was worth buying?
No. It's HCA score was 3.1. You're looking for a score under 2 - definitely under 2.5. And preferably over 1 - so - between 1 and 2. 3.1 is considered a long way out and puts it outside the range of what is generally considered worth considering.
 
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And you are talking about this store like its some chainstore hustling i2 strong flourecense 1 carat diamond rings for $4000 The guy is a specialist diamond broker. The best one in Sydney according to the google reviews.
No. It's HCA score was 3.1. You're looking for a score under 2 - definitely under 2.5. And preferably over 1 - so - between 1 and 2. 3.1 is considered a long way out and puts it outside the range of what is generally considered worth considering.
Not accordring to the little blurb that came up underneath. It said worth buy if the price is right?
 
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Is the main concern here that its going to be a slightly "fisheye" diamond with the wide table 59% and shallow 32.5 degree crown angle?
 

maryjane04

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
156
I mean ultimately the HCA tool said it was worth buying?
I think you've missed the point here. The HCA tool is used to reject diamonds not to select them. You need further tools to assess what is suitable to buy.

I don't doubt that you have a great and honest jeweller in Sydney, but from my experience in Australia - we don't have a very large selection of ideal diamonds to choose from. He could also be ordering it online?

Anyway I hope you are happy with your purchase and good luck with your engagement.
 

Crazie4Cuts

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
448
@SirWankalot Humm, not sure about the fisheye appearance, but @maryjane04 is right about how the HCA tool should be used. You should compare a AGS a true Hearts and Arrow with the diamond you purchased. There is a difference between a well cut stone such as Whiteflash ‘A cut Above’ diamonds and one that is not. Please watch JannPaul Youtube diamond comparison videos:

and also watch this one:


and read and check out the following education info:

I think this will help you. If you are still satisfied with your selection, then at least you are an informed buyer. I still suggest calling and talking with Garry Holloway https://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/contact-us/

All the best,
-C4C
 
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lydial

Brilliant_Rock
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Oct 10, 2010
Messages
558
@SirWankalot You are now hearing from both a diamond and stone (as in: rocks, not gems) lover here. Geeky, maybe. And: I am also a fellow cyclist who rides and previously raced cyclocross, road, gravel, but mainly cross country. My friends in the real world (not internet) are prior olympians, world champions, world respected custom frame manufacturers, bike shop owners. I have had more boring bike part conversions in my life... so many... decades... but people love these details! It’s a hobby to just be a member of the bike community. Most of my friends don’t have kids because they prefer their bike hobby. It is that serious of a commitment. And: experienced cyclists can “tell the difference in the head tube angle” and you know it. Geometry is a huge factor in cycling. We can tell one more/less chain ring tooth, variance in 5 (or less) mm of stem difference, bottom bracket height, tire grip, etc etc. It’s a bike “snob“ thing... or is it being well educated in your hobby? Liking the feel of a certain brand? It doesn’t make you a pompous wanker to know your stuff in any arena. You talk about these diamond collectors here like they have only seen 50 diamonds? Many of them own hundreds of thousands of dollars in diamonds. Travel worldwide collecting and researching diamonds alongside their other interests. Diamonds are a luxury and a symbol, but to collectors it can be a lifetime passion. Clearly a lot of psychological factors at play. Being a collector is psychologically complicated period. Many of us have deep, complex collections of diamonds and other things. It is our hobby. I also collect art. And in my house: There are also a bunch of different bikes for different uses and they all get used. And: you sound like a very frustrated young man with a lot to prove to someone. And now you have a Macan you didn’t buy yourself and thus you have A whole LOT to prove to some in-laws maybe? You have nothing to prove to us. Go enjoy your bride to be. If the diamond is a dud: trade it up later. It is not your passion. But leave these knowledgeable collectors be if you don’t want their advice, move on. They are just teaching you and the rest of the world reading what makes a truly amazing cut in a diamond. You chose to get something sub-standard by ideal standards and that-is-ok if it pleases you and you seem to expect the bride to be to feel the same. Let us hope. You can be satisfied with what you bought and no one was judging you but you are judging them for their interest, passion and knowledge.
 
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@SirWankalot You are now hearing from both a diamond and stone (as in: rocks, not gems) lover here. Geeky, maybe. And: I am also a fellow cyclist who rides and previously raced cyclocross, road, gravel, but mainly cross country. My friends in the real world (not internet) are prior olympians, world champions, world respected custom frame manufacturers, bike shop owners. I have had more boring bike part conversions in my life... so many... decades... but people love these details! It’s a hobby to just be a member of the bike community. Most of my friends don’t have kids because they prefer their bike hobby. It is that serious of a commitment. And: experienced cyclists can “tell the difference in the head tube angle” and you know it. Geometry is a huge factor in cycling. We can tell one more/less chain ring tooth, variance in 5 (or less) mm of stem difference, bottom bracket height, tire grip, etc etc. It’s a bike “snob“ thing... or is it being well educated in your hobby? Liking the feel of a certain brand? It doesn’t make you a pompous wanker to know your stuff in any arena. You talk about these diamond collectors here like they have only seen 50 diamonds? Many of them own hundreds of thousands of dollars in diamonds. Travel worldwide collecting and researching diamonds alongside their other interests. Diamonds are a luxury and a symbol, but to collectors it can be a lifetime passion. Clearly a lot of psychological factors at play. Being a collector is psychologically complicated period. Many of us have deep, complex collections of diamonds and other things. It is our hobby. I also collect art. And in my house: There are also a bunch of different bikes for different uses and they all get used. And: you sound like a very frustrated young man with a lot to prove to someone. And now you have a Macan you didn’t buy yourself and thus you have A whole LOT to prove to some in-laws maybe? You have nothing to prove to us. Go enjoy your bride to be. If the diamond is a dud: trade it up later. It is not your passion. But leave these knowledgeable collectors be if you don’t want their advice, move on. They are just teaching you and the rest of the world reading what makes a truly amazing cut in a diamond. You chose to get something sub-standard by ideal standards and that-is-ok if it pleases you and you seem to expect the bride to be to feel the same. Let us hope. You can be satisfied with what you bought and no one was judging you but you are judging them for their interest, passion and knowledge.
Man, you guys are really ad homineming me over the porsche. Mentioning that was a huge mistake.

In 10 years of fulltime bike shop. In a store that has bike fit 10 world championship medallists. No one has ever even asked about a headtube angle. So maybe that was a bad example.

You people need to realise you are in the 0.001 percent of diamond buyers, and that this place is a bit of a shame fest for anyone who doesnt have the time/money to search the world for the best 1 in 1000 Triple excellent diamond..all to validate your own egos.

I just went in and had a chat with the store and they assure me that this diamond is in the top 5 percent of quality that anyone goes for. And without rationalising, I believe them. And i believe you guys are too persnkitety.

Good luck. I wish every person here good health and im sorry if i came accross a bit abrasive. Time to let this go.

My mate summed it up well. All anyone sees is the size. Just get a big one....
 
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gregchang35

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
2,930
Pls note- most jewelers (that is global) will not understand the nuances of ideal cuts.
there are jewelers for everyone's taste. In Australia (sydney and perth where i have had dealings with), there are none that i have come across personally that understands them as much as i have seen here on PS.

They understand what they see with their eyes, and that is what they are going to impress you on. What you see with your eyes. For the layperson, that is all ok. and it could all ok with you and your partner. And, many 3rd generations jewelers out there still operate under these pretenses

It isn't until you look more/ deeper into things (like we do and appreciate here on PS), the ideal cuts. The nuances that you get are there to be appreciated. It isnt until you see one with your own eyes or suggested imaging to show you (Idealscope and ASET images) that you really appreciate these ideal cuts. that comes with a premium, so some get close to it as possible. Ideal cuts... i have seen 0.9ct MRB (modern round brilliant) ideal look brighter and more sparklier than a 1ct MRB. ANd, ideal cuts in lower/ warmer colours look brighter adn also hide the body colour more. THere are some K coloured ideal cuts from Whiteflash that i had to look several times to really see the tint.

WHat i am trying to say is: it is all about preference and tolerances. What are your limits to the diamond that you are after, budget included in those considerations.

You came on here to get advice on what is the best stone your money can buy. We provided that assistance. You can choose to accept it or not.

Here is a link to what would be considered an acceptable range of angles on the GIA report. and i have cut to the relevant details from that link that your jeweler can use to vet the stone.

OR
be happy with what you have chosen and leave out asking for feedback.

______________________________________________________________________________
Table: 54-57
Depth: 60-62.3
CA: 34-35
PA: 40.6-41.0
Girdle: thin to medium, thin to slightly thick; avoid extremes like very thin , thick, or very thick

A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.
______________________________________________________________________________


As others have mentioned the HCA tool is a guide to buy on line.
HCA<2 is one that is worth investigating. SOme might say <2.5
With HCA <2, with the aid of IS and ASET, will help determine if it is a good stone or not.
Video imaging is also helpful.

Now you could say- why the hell do you need all of this?
it is because you are buying on line and you cant see the stone in your hands.

These are the tools that will help guide you into buying the best stone possible, without seeing it in your physical hands.


OR,
you can trust the many PSers that have guided you into what is the better stone to look for, as they LOVE the details of what makes a great stone ... and they choose stones well for others.
 

monipod

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
291
My mate summed it up well. All anyone sees is the size. Just get a big one....
Oh my... Well, in Australia you'll certainly get away with it. If your GF isn't likely to hang out with the well-to-do set then sure, just get any 1ct stone. On that basis, why not get a H/I SI1 stone that's 1.5ct?

I think 12K is a lot of money. I'd suggest putting the ring off until you have the time to make the right purchase.

Everyone means well here but if all the advice you wanted was your mate's, then this wasn't the right place to come for advice.
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
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Messages
7,402
And you are talking about this store like its some chainstore hustling i2 strong flourecense 1 carat diamond rings for $4000 The guy is a specialist diamond broker. The best one in Sydney according to the google reviews.


Not accordring to the little blurb that came up underneath. It said worth buy if the price is right?
Sorry to be slow in responding. I have issues of my own at the moment.

Yes, worth buying if you get a deal good enough to make compromising on quality worthwhile - IF that's what's worth it to you. For most of us here, it's not worth it.

I also don't think you actually *did* get a great deal - as in - the price you paid wasn't heavily discounted. That's what an HCA of 3.1 is referring to.
 
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