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Can you tell if this is a Heart & Arrows diamond?

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pepsi_corp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
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23
Hi all,
Hope you can all give your expert opinions. I have been searching hard for a H & A, well cut diamond. I was presented with this particular 1.371 carat AGS0 F VS2 diamond. Here are the reports I have.

I am told it could be a 'candidate' for H & A, but can this be determined from these reports??

I would also appreciate any input as to the quality of this diamond - I am being quoted between 11000 to 12000.

Thank you in advance!

AST_AGS_aset_1.371_crop.jpg
 

pepsi_corp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
23
Sorry for the multiple posts for my pictures. I can''t seem to attach multiple pics per single post.

DI40X_AGS_top_lyingside_1.371_crop.jpg
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,559
Beautiful performance images. Not much swing in the angles on the local Sarin either so it is probably a great candidate for H&A, the crown cut precision (arrows) is terrific. Pavilion precision (hearts) is trickier. Short of seeing actual hearts images there is no way to know just how uniform the patterns are. For what it's worth though, I'd guess that many places might go ahead and sell this as a H&A diamond (along with an extra premium).
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
It''s a beaut whether it''s official H & A or not
 

pepsi_corp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
23
Thank you for the replies so far!

Although I had my 'heart' (to pun or not!) set on getting a heart/arrow diamond, I must say I am becoming very tempted.

I put this through the HCA calculator and got a score of 0.8.

Just as an experiment I put through many of the so called H & A best cut diamonds from various sites, and found most of them fall between an HCA of 1 to 1.5. Would this mean that this diamond would likely fall short of the quality of the web's top H & A diamonds??

I still don't exactly understand how to read or interpret the variance in numbers. I just know that <2 seems to be the desirable standard. Can anyone elaborate on the signifiance of the HCA score of this particular diamond (0.8). I have read that we cannot only base on the HCA score alone, but must analyze along with idealscopes, sarin, etc. Now that I have all these, what exactly can I make of everything?
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
HCA is only a tool to help you narrow the field. Anything under 2.0 is worthy of consideration.

.5 isn''t better than .8, which isn''t better than 1.0 etc. It''s an elimination tool, sort of like pass/fail at the 2.0 point.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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3,559
Date: 2/27/2009 1:40:28 AM
Author: pepsi_corp

I put this through the HCA calculator and got a score of 0.8.
61.7 56 40.8 34.3 = HCA 1.2

Did you use % or angles? Angles are more accurate.

#1 - Ditto purrfect.

#2 - The ideal-scope and ASET far trump HCA. HCA is blindly drawing a chalk-outline based on 4 numbers. It's like the difference between knowing age, height and weight of a blind date...and seeing photos of her. Photos are far more revealing. And when you actually see the diamond in person you're basking in her personality.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
WF should be able to get you a Hearts image if this is what they claim to be a H&A stone.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Ditto John, hearts images are needed to judge the cut precision, looks like a lovely diamond though.
 

pepsi_corp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
23
Date: 2/27/2009 2:19:13 AM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 2/27/2009 1:40:28 AM
Author: pepsi_corp

I put this through the HCA calculator and got a score of 0.8.
61.7 56 40.8 34.3 = HCA 1.2

Did you use % or angles? Angles are more accurate.

#1 - Ditto purrfect.

#2 - The ideal-scope and ASET far trump HCA. HCA is blindly drawing a chalk-outline based on 4 numbers. It''s like the difference between knowing age, height and weight of a blind date...and seeing photos of her. Photos are far more revealing. And when you actually see the diamond in person you''re basking in her personality.
Weird, I just realized the values of the AGS certificate(61.4/56.1/40.7/34.1) and the Sarin values are slightly different. Hmmm....are the Sarin values more accurate?? AGS HCA #''s = 0.8 Sarin HCA #''s = 1.2

I love the ''blind date'' analogy. Someone has got to quote you on that one again in the future!

So in other words, this one looks to be ''pretty'' and if the heart pics are revealing - this may make her ''smokin hot''.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
AGS numbers are the ones of authority compared to Sarin, some variance is usual. Also no need for HCA with diamonds of this calibre and level of info provided such as ASET.
 

pepsi_corp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
23
Would anyone venture to guess whether this would make the cut as a Blue Nile Signature, or a Blue Nile Ideal - if this were a Blue Nile diamond that is??

Might seem like a childish question - but I just want to know that I am getting the best value for my dollar.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
14,069
Date: 2/27/2009 11:29:47 AM
Author: pepsi_corp
Would anyone venture to guess whether this would make the cut as a Blue Nile Signature, or a Blue Nile Ideal - if this were a Blue Nile diamond that is??

Might seem like a childish question - but I just want to know that I am getting the best value for my dollar.
Nothing special, just stones that BN own, unlike most of the virtual stones they listed which are owned by other vendors pooled in the common pool. and has them sent to GCAL to do another set of grading.

EDT:
I don't think they are branded cuts from specific cutting house, like ISee2, WF's ACA or CraftedbyInfinity, or even advertized as H&A stones.
 

Todd Gray

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
1,297
Date: 2/27/2009 11:21:31 AM
Author: pepsi_corp
Weird, I just realized the values of the AGS certificate(61.4/56.1/40.7/34.1) and the Sarin values are slightly different. Hmmm....are the Sarin values more accurate?? AGS HCA #''s = 0.8 Sarin HCA #''s = 1.2
There is always a slight variance between measured results from different machines, in fact, you can obtain slightly different measurements from the same machine if you pick up the stone, set it down and press the button again... I forget the specifications for margin of error, but they are fairly minimal - far better and more accurate than the ability of most people to judge accurately using just their eyes


The important thing is that the measurements are "close" and that the relationship between the sections of the diamond make sense, which they do.

Hey Pepsi, here''s a question for you... Why don''t the sum of the parts add up? Don''t go there, I''m just messing with you - they never will because of the way the girdle measurements are averaged, but I thought I''d save you some grief in case you start looking at the numbers and find yourself thinking "wait a minute!"
 

pepsi_corp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
23
Date: 2/27/2009 12:19:37 PM
Author: Todd Gray

Date: 2/27/2009 11:21:31 AM
Author: pepsi_corp
Weird, I just realized the values of the AGS certificate(61.4/56.1/40.7/34.1) and the Sarin values are slightly different. Hmmm....are the Sarin values more accurate?? AGS HCA #''s = 0.8 Sarin HCA #''s = 1.2
There is always a slight variance between measured results from different machines, in fact, you can obtain slightly different measurements from the same machine if you pick up the stone, set it down and press the button again... I forget the specifications for margin of error, but they are fairly minimal - far better and more accurate than the ability of most people to judge accurately using just their eyes


The important thing is that the measurements are ''close'' and that the relationship between the sections of the diamond make sense, which they do.

Hey Pepsi, here''s a question for you... Why don''t the sum of the parts add up? Don''t go there, I''m just messing with you - they never will because of the way the girdle measurements are averaged, but I thought I''d save you some grief in case you start looking at the numbers and find yourself thinking ''wait a minute!''
Ahhhh. I almost don''t want to learn anymore. The more I learn about technical data & visuals, the more nitpicky I''m getting.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss (ooooh nice shiny rock...I buy...girlfriend like VS crown/pavilion angle deviations, sarins, scopes,etc )

J/k of course
...learning on forums like these almost makes me want to get involved in the industry

I appreciate all the expert opinions as well - Thank you ALL !!
 

pepsi_corp

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
23
Hmmmmm.....I have been doing some browsing of sarin reports for so called ''top pick'' diamonds. The diameter deviation of such top diamonds seems to be 0.5% and below. So is 0.7% deviation (the one in the sarin report i posted) considered to be relatively high. Would it likely knock it out of contention as a true Heart/Arrow diamond??
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
42,064
Date: 2/28/2009 1:49:45 AM
Author: pepsi_corp
Hmmmmm.....I have been doing some browsing of sarin reports for so called ''top pick'' diamonds. The diameter deviation of such top diamonds seems to be 0.5% and below. So is 0.7% deviation (the one in the sarin report i posted) considered to be relatively high. Would it likely knock it out of contention as a true Heart/Arrow diamond??
The only way to judge overall cut precision of a said h&a diamond is to have hearts images, those are the '' proof of the pudding.''
 
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