Can this diamond have a H&A pattern?

[cachia85]

Question as title. Pardon me if it sounds silly as I am really a newbie.
I've just bought my very first diamond online, its specification is as below:
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 4.68 - 4.70 x 2.81 mm
Carat Weight: 0.37 carat
Color Grade: D
Clarity Grade: IF
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 59.9%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Crown Height: 13.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
I put its specification in HCA and received 4 EX . I paid $1530 for it. Is it reasonable or overpriced? Thanks.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Question as title. Pardon me if it sounds silly as I am really a newbie.
I've just bought my very first diamond online, its specification is as below:
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 4.68 - 4.70 x 2.81 mm
Carat Weight: 0.37 carat
Color Grade: D
Clarity Grade: IF
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 59.9%
Table: 59%
Crown Angle: 33.5°
Crown Height: 13.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
I put its specification in HCA and received 4 EX . I paid $1530 for it. Is it reasonable or overpriced? Thanks.

Yes this bluenile stone is within the competitive range, perhaps you could have gotten one slightly cheaper from USAcerted but in D IF there isn't a lot of selection and the fine details of cut cannot be compared. You already know I guess that you pay a hefty premium for D color and IF clarity.

As for H&A we would have to see a hearts viewer image to determine its optical symmetry.

 

[cachia85]

Woa, where can you get that price compare list? I tried on pricescope but I didn't get the same list. Thank you for your very quick reply. I also had live chat with bluenile and people there tell me:
Me: Is it an H&A?
BN: It will have the hearts and arrows pattern because it has an ideal cut with ideal polish and symmetry
However I'm still very skeptic about that, that's why I come here to ask. I will receive the stone next week so let's see then.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Woa, where can you get that price compare list? I tried on pricescope but I didn't get the same list. Thank you for your very quick reply. I also had live chat with bluenile and people there tell me:
Me: Is it an H&A?
BN: It will have the hearts and arrows pattern because it has an ideal cut with ideal polish and symmetry
However I'm still very skeptic about that, that's why I come here to ask. I will receive the stone next week so let's see then.

Bluenile is a drop shipper, they have never seen the stone before they send it to you.
They also have many inexperienced salesstaff that don't know the difference between optical symmetry (hearts and arrows) and finish symmetry (as graded by GIA on the report).

For precious D IF rough though in a 60T/60d I highly doubt you will be getting a high standard of Hearts and Arrows, if this is important to you I'd choose a vendor who provides the requisite images.

But I would say though in this size I wouldn't worry about the optical symmetry and would just want to see an Idealscope image for its light return properties.

The image I attached for you was using the PS search and sorting by Table and Depth percentages so that I could match up your stones specs as precisely as possible.

 

[Dreamer_D]

In this size with the naked eye you won't be able to see arrows very much unless under tight scrutiny anyways, so don't worry about it. If it matters to you, then as CCL said, you will need to work with a different vendor.

 

[cachia85]

Thanks all. It's such a relief that for my tiny diamond the H&A is not important . I hope that its light return is nice, BlueNile couldn't provide me any document other that the number of GIA cert, I asked and their staff said they only have the light performance report for their Signature Ideal.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thanks all. It's such a relief that for my tiny diamond the H&A is not important . I hope that its light return is nice, BlueNile couldn't provide me any document other that the number of GIA cert, I asked and their staff said they only have the light performance report for their Signature Ideal.

Good cut is always important no matter the size but you do not technically need an H&A to achieve that goal. Your diamond passes two important tests for assessing cut remotely: GIA Ex cut grade and HCA under 2. It is not a traditional tolk style cut, and so will not have the same style of patterning as you will see in an H&A, but that may not matter to your eye. Wait and see how you like it.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Thanks all. It's such a relief that for my tiny diamond the H&A is not important . I hope that its light return is nice, BlueNile couldn't provide me any document other that the number of GIA cert, I asked and their staff said they only have the light performance report for their Signature Ideal.

Good cut is always important no matter the size but you do not technically need an H&A to achieve that goal. Your diamond passes two important tests for assessing cut remotely: GIA Ex cut grade and HCA under 2. It is not a traditional tolk style cut, and so will not have the same style of patterning as you will see in an H&A, but that may not matter to your eye. Wait and see how you like it.

Why Not?
Crown 33.5 Pavilion 40.8 with decent optical symmetry will have near H&A just like a smaller table diamond.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Thanks all. It's such a relief that for my tiny diamond the H&A is not important . I hope that its light return is nice, BlueNile couldn't provide me any document other that the number of GIA cert, I asked and their staff said they only have the light performance report for their Signature Ideal.

Good cut is always important no matter the size but you do not technically need an H&A to achieve that goal. Your diamond passes two important tests for assessing cut remotely: GIA Ex cut grade and HCA under 2. It is not a traditional tolk style cut, and so will not have the same style of patterning as you will see in an H&A, but that may not matter to your eye. Wait and see how you like it.

Why Not?
Crown 33.5 Pavilion 40.8 with decent optical symmetry will have near H&A just like a smaller table diamond.

Correct, the patterns will look a little different though at below 40% table and above 80%

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thanks all. It's such a relief that for my tiny diamond the H&A is not important . I hope that its light return is nice, BlueNile couldn't provide me any document other that the number of GIA cert, I asked and their staff said they only have the light performance report for their Signature Ideal.

Good cut is always important no matter the size but you do not technically need an H&A to achieve that goal. Your diamond passes two important tests for assessing cut remotely: GIA Ex cut grade and HCA under 2. It is not a traditional tolk style cut, and so will not have the same style of patterning as you will see in an H&A, but that may not matter to your eye. Wait and see how you like it.

Why Not?
Crown 33.5 Pavilion 40.8 with decent optical symmetry will have near H&A just like a smaller table diamond.

Correct, the patterns will look a little different though at below 40% table and above 80%

I think "60/60" type stones have a particular style of arrows patterning, they look a little different in the center where the arrows converge than a tolk style cut with sub-60 table and (often) higher depth, to my eye anyways. That is what I meant when I said it might not have the "same patterning" as an H&A. We are always saying that 60/60s have a "different look" than tolk style cuts, so surely they do not look identical... or do you disagree with that? Perhaps the "different look" depends more one the pav/crown than I am aware?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Here is the comparison of the two. The centre red circle is bigger with a bigger table so I guess you were referring to that.
I wouldn't say its a different type of H&A like for example LGF <70% where it would fail the hearts and arrows test.
A 60/60 or 59/60 can pass hearts by HRD or BGD's definition just fine.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Here is the comparison of the two. The centre red circle is bigger with a bigger table so I guess you were referring to that.
I wouldn't say its a different type of H&A like for example LGF <70% where it would fail the hearts and arrows test.
A 60/60 or 59/60 can pass hearts by HRD or BGD's definition just fine.

Thank you for posting that image, very helpful. When I said "A different style of patterning" I was indeed referring to the details like thinner arrows, larger center circle, arrow heads that are nearer to the outer circumphrence etc that cause the 60/60 type stone to have an overall subtly different appearance in pattern than a traditional tolk cut. I did not mean to imply that it would have no arrows evident or could not potentially be an H&A.

 

[cachia85]

Thank you for posting imagines, for me both are so beautiful . Hope that mine will have that pattern (even it's not so important as you said earlier )

 

[cachia85]

I just found another slightly bigger but cheaper diamond on Eternity Diamond (200$ cheaper). So sad
ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements: 4.68 - 4.71 x 2.94 mm
Carat Weight: 0.40 carat
Color Grade: D
Clarity Grade: IF
Cut Grade: Excellent
PROPORTIONS:

Depth: 62.5%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 16.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
FINISH:

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

I think its proportions are also nice. Sob sob... I should know PS earlier...

 

[yssie]

I just found another slightly bigger but cheaper diamond on Eternity Diamond (200$ cheaper). So sad
ROUND BRILLIANT

Measurements: 4.68 - 4.71 x 2.94 mm
Carat Weight: 0.40 carat
Color Grade: D
Clarity Grade: IF
Cut Grade: Excellent
PROPORTIONS:

Depth: 62.5%
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 16.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
FINISH:

Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

I think its proportions are also nice. Sob sob... I should know PS earlier...

It's not any bigger - trust me, you couldn't see a 0.01mm diff w/o a microscope

 

[cachia85]

ya, I know, but it's still cheaper 200 bucks...

 

[yssie]

haha you've purchased, unless you're planning to return stop trawling, or you'll undoubtedly see something else you'd rather not - murphy's law!

 

[cachia85]

haha you've purchased, unless you're planning to return stop trawling, or you'll undoubtedly see something else you'd rather not - murphy's law!

So true. I will stop using at these search engines and be happy with my choice but next time I will search on PS first - note to myself.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

haha you've purchased, unless you're planning to return stop trawling, or you'll undoubtedly see something else you'd rather not - murphy's law!

So true. I will stop using at these search engines and be happy with my choice but next time I will search on PS first - note to myself.

Cachia,

I wrote my intial response carefully to you because when you get into fine nuances of stones you cannot tell from the grading report which stone will be preferred.

The trade is very good at determining the proper value on GIA graded round brilliants. What this means is there are reasons for price differences that are not readily apparent from the listing.

For example the stone you are purchasing could have better optical symmetry, the cheaper one may have poorer optical symmetry.
I wouldn't sweat the price differences that much especially since you went for the rarest color and clarity grading.

In my experience Bluenile isn't the cheapest of the drop shippers but they are still pretty competitive especailly compared to B&M stores.

 

[cachia85]

haha you've purchased, unless you're planning to return stop trawling, or you'll undoubtedly see something else you'd rather not - murphy's law!

So true. I will stop using at these search engines and be happy with my choice but next time I will search on PS first - note to myself.

Cachia,

I wrote my intial response carefully to you because when you get into fine nuances of stones you cannot tell from the grading report which stone will be preferred.

The trade is very good at determining the proper value on GIA graded round brilliants. What this means is there are reasons for price differences that are not readily apparent from the listing.

For example the stone you are purchasing could have better optical symmetry, the cheaper one may have poorer optical symmetry.
I wouldn't sweat the price differences that much especially since you went for the rarest color and clarity grading.

In my experience Bluenile isn't the cheapest of the drop shippers but they are still pretty competitive especailly compared to B&M stores.

Thank you for enlightening me!

 

[cachia85]

I have receive the ring and I like it a lot! The diamond is small but through the H&A viewer I can see some cute little arrows.