Can someone put this logo on a grid for me?

[CJ2008]

Even though this version is much better, there''s still something that looks off to me with the small spokes...but I can''t figure out what it is and I can''t figure out how to put it on a grid.

Plus, I notice the ends of the star are no longer coming to a sharp point.

And she made the top spokes not go through the inner ring any more (before, the white of the top two spokes broke the inner ring slightly...although she probably assumed I wanted symmetry all around, I just wish she would''ve picked up the phone when she got to that point, as I''m sure she asked herself that question...)

This really is driving me crazy

...help!

 

[Cleo]

Yes, with the grid on you can see that the inner arms of the star are coming out at different angles...

x x x

*ETA* that didn't work.. obviously! LOL!

 

[Cleo]

Can''t get the rotten grid to show when I save it! I drew lines on, according to the grid which shows the same thing...

x x x

 

[jcrow]

the whole thing is off.
give me a second to plop it into illustrator.

 

[jcrow]

.

 

[jcrow]

.

 

[jcrow]

for a grid in illustrator go to view/show grid.

 

[CJ2008]

cleo and jcrow

I am so relieved that I have some "proof" that the logo's still off, that I almost cried! I am at my wits end and it is so ridiculous that I need to turn to you guys, but I feel I cannot rely on this person to be truthful with me that she has fixed things. Either her eye for detail isn't like mine, she just doesn't care, or she is just fed up with me wanting this level of detail.

Is there any way that either one of you could extend the top two spokes just beyond the inner ring? I tried but had a really hard time, and I'm sure that it's that I don't know how to use Illustrator on an expert level... But if it's more than a couple of minutes thing, would you then just give me your opinion on whether doing that will make the bottom spokes look unbalanced? I want to have a good idea of what might happen if she does that so I can address it before she even tries it. I just feel that, as miracles put it, the star looked more "alive" before, and I think it has to do with some of the spokes breaking through the ring.

(jcrow - I did the view grid, but it doesn't help nearly as much as the lines you guys drew...)

 

[jcrow]

i need to have the logo in vector form (not jpg) in order to move anything around.

just a thought, but is there a way to back out of this deal if our at your wits end and beyond frustrated?

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 8/12/2008 9:29:02 PM
Author: jcrow


i need to have the logo in vector form (not jpg) in order to move anything around.

just a thought, but is there a way to back out of this deal if our at your wits end and beyond frustrated?

right...forgot about that...

No opinion on it, though?

well, there might be...but not sure that I would want to, only because the website designer is the REAL reason I signed on with this company, and that is a totally different person from this one. I''m not sure, but I have a feeling this person is contracted out to do all the logo/corporate identity work...owner/web desiger is in one part of the country, this person in another. That said, I will express to the owner the extent of my frustration/disappointment with this process so far. She may/may not see things from my perspective, but I am sure she''d like to know.

 

[darkeyesredshoes]

Bwahahaha! That was ridiculously huge! Sorry.

Trying again.

 

[CJ2008]

darkeyed and FI, thank you so much...

And I appreciate you saying that I shouldn't have to struggle so much to get what I want...that's part of the problem though...I'm not the expert, so of course sometimes I may suggest something that makes no sense or it's impossible to do w/o changing something else. But she doesn't bounce any of these things off me or gives me her input - she sends me back the file with changes. And I didn't realize how cockeyed the whole design was (what you're seeing has already been fixed for symmetry - it was waaay off before) until I got done with the color (which was another struggle, and during which I ended up feeling a little bit...crazy...because no matter what she sent me I just didn't like it, and ended up doing the colors myself). I also don't know if she did the star freehand to get a different look/something more visually interesting than totally symmetrical but if she did 1. she never explained this to me and 2. there was no symmetry whatsoever and some things were just totally off center. I definitely do have to have a conversation with the owner - perhaps request that she use someone else for my business card and letterhead.

I am not going to take any more of your FI's time tweaking with this thing...but if there's any way he could send me the file where the points and thickness of the spokes of the star are moveable, that would be great. When I opened it in Illustrator I could only move the whole star as a whole...if I could take his work and just play around with the spokes, that would allow me to send her a really good idea of star shape I want.

If we all lived close, I would definitely be treating you all out to a nice dinner at my house.

ETA: I did it again...forgot that I would need to have the file in a format other than jpeg to be able to play around with the spokes...well, if it isn't too much trouble if he could make all the small spokes just a little bit thicker, and just leave the two top ones to break the ring just slightly (so pull them back a bit)...and have the two bottom ones not break the ring...maybe as far from the ring as in the stars I had posted above...but he can use his judgment as far as the balance...what he sent me is ALREADY better than what she did, so...

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 8/12/2008 9:39:56 PM
Author: claudinam

Date: 8/12/2008 9:29:02 PM
Author: jcrow


i need to have the logo in vector form (not jpg) in order to move anything around.

just a thought, but is there a way to back out of this deal if our at your wits end and beyond frustrated?

right...forgot about that...

No opinion on it, though?

well, there might be...but not sure that I would want to, only because the website designer is the REAL reason I signed on with this company, and that is a totally different person from this one. I''m not sure, but I have a feeling this person is contracted out to do all the logo/corporate identity work...owner/web desiger is in one part of the country, this person in another. That said, I will express to the owner the extent of my frustration/disappointment with this process so far. She may/may not see things from my perspective, but I am sure she''d like to know.

Claudianam:

Has the website designer been kept informed of your correspondance with the logo designer? The problems with the logo should be evident even to a non design professional (like me

), so I''d be concerned if she had been kept in the loop and hand''t dealt with the logo designer before now. If she hasn''t been kept in the loop, I''d be watching her reaction to your comments very closely. I''m sure you did your research before choosing this website designer, but it''s possible that she''s now "off her game" for some reason.

 

[darkeyesredshoes]

Hey, Claudinam...

FI has thickened the smaller spokes, but I''m not sure I understand what you''d like done with them insofar as "ring breakage" is concerned.

You''d like the top two spokes to be longer than the bottom two, correct? It''s just going to look a little asymmetrical if that''s the case. Maybe it''s just late and I''m not reading you right, though.

Here it is with thicker spokes and symmetrical spoke lengths on the left, and asymmetrical spoke lengths on the right. I hope you can use these to better convey what you''re looking for to your designer! If I could post the Illustrator file, I would. It would probably save you a lot of time and heartache.

 

[CJ2008]

hi minims!

Yes, pretty much, the owner has been in the loop...we first went through several rounds where I kept asking for different colors and different elements changed as far as color...and when I just kept getting no input back from the logo designer, and just files with the changes back, I started to assume that the lack of a response maybe meant I was being overly detailed and a PITA...when I questioned the owner, she said that my involvement with the logo was a bit unusual, but that it was my logo and she wanted me to be happy with it. Upon hearing the word "unusual" though, I kind of got that feeling that she probably agreed with the logo designer that I was just being a bit of, to put it nicely, a perfectionist.

Throughout all the color revisions I had not noticed just how cockeyed the whole thing was...but once we got done with the color, wham, my focus shifted to those details and that''s when I noticed all the little problems. So I just feel very disconnected from this whole process, as if I''m left floundering to catch everything without any guidance.

Maybe I am just being too patient and placing too little emphasis on the logo part of the package, when in reality I paid for it as a totally separate module. I don''t know why I''m so hesitant/afraid to create tension (if need be) between me and the owner. I keep treating this process as if it''s something to endure/get through until I get to the web design, which really isn''t how I should be looking at it when I paid for this service.

 

[TravelingGal]

I''ve been following this and don''t have much to add except that I feel your frustration. That, and PSers are a resourceful bunch!

 

[CJ2008]

darkeyed, first off, thanks for making me laugh (ring breakage)...I needed it!

What your FI did is exactly exactly exactly what I expressed to him I wanted. Plus, he just "knew" to send me BOTH versions with the spokes a little thicker (one with them symmetrical all around and then one with the bottom two spokes not breaking through the ring), so that I could see them side by side. Except for a couple of times when she went a little beyond what I asked her, she hasn''t been proactive like this at all...I get exactly what I ask for and nothing more. No feedback, no questions, nothing.

Thank you both so very much for the files, and the support. I will definitely use these pictures to show her what I want.

 

[CJ2008]

Hey tgal, thanks for dropping in...

I am a bit embarrassed to admit how "quiet" I've been throughout this process. On the other hand, I've been way too under-expressive as far as the frustrating and expecting more, but I've been persistent, and even though I've felt a bit intimidated I haven't stopped pushing and have yet to accept the logos she sends me as "final versions". But, I've taken on the burden of making this work way too much on myself. Spending time on things they should be spending time on.

I appreciate all the support, and skills, of PSers!

ETA: Can I borrow your avatar? I'll include it in my next e-mail to the designer. hahaha I showed your avatar to my DH the other day, and he loved it.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/12/2008 11:33:35 PM
Author: claudinam
Hey tgal, thanks for dropping in...

I am a bit embarrassed to admit how ''quiet'' I''ve been throughout this process. On the other hand, I''ve been way too under-expressive as far as the frustrating and expecting more, but I''ve been persistent, and even though I''ve felt a bit intimidated I haven''t stopped pushing and have yet to accept the logos she sends me as ''final versions''. But, I''ve taken on the burden of making this work way too much on myself. Spending time on things they should be spending time on.

I appreciate all the support, and skills, of PSers!

ETA: Can I borrow your avatar? I''ll include it in my next e-mail to the designer. hahaha I showed your avatar to my DH the other day, and he loved it.

Sure...you can say a picture is worth a 1000 words...if she could only get the darn picture RIGHT!

 

[darkeyesredshoes]

You''re welcome, Claudinam! I hope it all turns out well.

 

[CJ2008]

Brief update, and a question...

I finally put on my big girl pants on and called the logo designer. I''ll tell you more about that later - let''s just say that she would have stepped all over me if I had not remained firm during the conversation.

In the meantime...she said things looked centered to her, and when I mentioned using the grid, she then admitted that she does not use it in Illustrator because she "doesn''t know how."

Can any of you tell me if there is any OTHER way of centering/aligning things that is just as reliable?

I plan on sending her the files you guys so graciously put together for me, with the lines through it to show the misalignment...and then I plan on calling her and asking her straight out how it is that she centers/aligns if not with the grid. But I want ot know if there''s another way that is just as reliable before I do...

 

[Lauren8211]

From the always brutally honest FF:

there are other ways to center objects, but not ways to draw objects, ie: if i want to draw a perfect X (like she has in that logo) there is no way to do it other than grid, and not knowing how to use the grid is retarded. You turn it on, thats it, window-> show grid. DONE

i think it may be default, snap to grid is on, but if its not, you need to turn that on too then when you start to draw an object, if you are close to a grid line, it automaticly snaps your object edge to the grid its layout 101.

 

[CJ2008]

elle and her always brutally honest FF...hi!

I have show grid on, but since the grid is behind the object it still doesn''t seem to help much to have it visible...for me...but I''m not supposed to be an expert!

I just have a feeling she''s centering visually..."looks centered to me" she said.

 

[Lauren8211]

FF is annoyed that you're going through this much trouble, he said he'd do the website and logo himself in 3 hours. LOL

ETA: FF sent this link for you!

http://www.cyberinkdesign.com/photoshop/illtutorials/illustrator_logo.htm

 

[jcrow]

Date: 8/13/2008 2:22:54 PM
Author: claudinam
elle and her always brutally honest FF...hi!


I have show grid on, but since the grid is behind the object it still doesn''t seem to help much to have it visible...for me...but I''m not supposed to be an expert!


I just have a feeling she''s centering visually...''looks centered to me'' she said.

are you working with the jpg? the jpg makes a white box background thus hiding the grid. if you work with the actual vector art, the grid should be visible.

 

[jcrow]

Date: 8/13/2008 12:47:31 PM
Author: claudinam
Brief update, and a question...


I finally put on my big girl pants on and called the logo designer. I''ll tell you more about that later - let''s just say that she would have stepped all over me if I had not remained firm during the conversation.


In the meantime...she said things looked centered to her, and when I mentioned using the grid, she then admitted that she does not use it in Illustrator because she ''doesn''t know how.''


Can any of you tell me if there is any OTHER way of centering/aligning things that is just as reliable?


I plan on sending her the files you guys so graciously put together for me, with the lines through it to show the misalignment...and then I plan on calling her and asking her straight out how it is that she centers/aligns if not with the grid. But I want ot know if there''s another way that is just as reliable before I do...

centering: yes. you can center things easy peasy. but seriously, you should not have to show her/him how to do their job. if i were you i''d pull the logo + print work from them and just hire them for the web services. this is ridiculous.

ok, back to centering. there is an align palette in illustrator. all you have to do is grab the items that need to be centered and hit the vertical alignment and horizontal alignment button. DONE.

 

[CJ2008]

jcrow, I figured out how to put the grid in FRONT/on top of the image.

Thanks for getting back to me on the centering/aligning...I tried using it, but it's more complicated than you make it sound (you expert you).

I know I shouldn't be having to do this for her...but I feel like it's almost RIGHT THERE...the logo ALMOST looks GREAT. So I'll see what she comes back with after I send her your grid.

ETA: a couple of questions for you since you do this for a living. When you work on a logo, do you perfect it while it's blown up? It would seem to me that the best way to make sure you can see all the elements, lines and details is to work on it while it is blown up very very large.

 

[jcrow]

when i work on a logo i work on it a various sizes. i blow it up as big as it can go sometimes to check things... but it''s a constant back and forth with the size.

 

[jcrow]

by the way, have you mentioned (or can you mention) what this logo is for? type of business? just curious.

 

[CJ2008]

OK - I was asking because when I called her, I asked her to open up the last file she sent me and to blow it up to 1200% so she could see what I was talking about as far as what was off. At first she didn't say anything and just listended, but then asked me "what are the chances you're going to have this logo blown up to that size?"

As I said earlier, I stuck to my guns, but these are the kinds of comments she made, and for each one I went right back at her...from my perspective, I want my logo to look good at 25, 50, 100, and however large I want it. I may never need it, but why wouldn't you blow it up that large to make sure you're not missing anything? And not to mention, how does she know I won't need to make a banner? The only reason I had noticed the ends of the star were squared off and not coming to a point was because I had blown it up.

I'm a Time Management/Productivity Coach. I work with individuals but I am in the middle of creating my own training program so that I can do workshops at corporations, so this logo needs to look GREAT. I wanted it to reflect what productivity means to me, and how I approach it...simplicity, learning how to use time wisely, knowing what results you really want (personally, professionally, whatever). Easier said than done, though, otherwise people wouldn't always be complaining that they don't have time...that's where time management skills come in. Anyway, this is why the star is so crucial to the rest of the logo...it needs to give the impression that it's radiating...growing...glowing - give the feeling that you're headed in the right direction.