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Can someone assist? Confused!

greentodiamonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
15
Hi All,

I have gathered a ton of information of buying the "perfect" diamond engagement ring. Unfortunately, I have gathered so much conflicting information and ended up buying the below stone. Can you all please give me feedback and let me know if this stone is optimal or if you have any concerns with performance? I never got an idealscope so perhaps someone can run the DiamCalc for me? Yes, the crown angle is shallow at 33 but I think it compensates with the 41.2 pavilion? HCA score of 1.8. Would you return this diamond for something else? Price was approx. $17k. My other concern is that the GIA report is from 2011... please advise! Many thanks.

SHAPE: Round
CARAT WEIGHT: 1.78
COLOR: H
CLARITY: VS1
CUT: Excellent
POLISH: Excellent
SYMMETRY: Excellent
FLUORESCENCE: None
L/W/D (MM): 7.85*7.83*4.80

L/W RATIO: 1.00
DEPTH %: 61.20
GIRDLE: Medium - Slightly Thick
TABLE %: 56.00
CULET: None
CERTIFICATE: GIA
CROWN ∠: 33.00
CROWN %: 14.50
PAVILION ∠: 41.20

PAVILION %: 43.50
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
For diamonds that have proportions outside the ideal ranges will require an idealscope/ASET scope image to verify the light performance. HCA is only a rejection tool, not a selection tool.
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
4,276
Hi - I am not a diamond expert. With today being the 4th, this site will probably be quiet. Give it a few days and I am quite sure the experts will come back and help you out with your stone. However, if it's not in the ideal range, you should hold on to your pocket book and allow them to help you to find a great stone for you money. Gypsy, DS, tyty333, flyingpig and a few others can help you with stone selection. Also, take a look at the Whiteflash.com website and go through their "ACA" stones. These particular stones are cut for optimal performance. This will give you a feel as to what an excellent cut stone will look like. Also, take a look at briangavindiamonds.com and check out their signature selection. Good luck and I hope you find a great diamond. :wavey:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
I like the stone MissGotRocks posted.

I always stay within these parameters for my own purchases and recommend them to others (especially if an ASET image is not an option).

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
Whiteflash and Brian Gavin super ideal diamonds are certainly among the best money can buy. However, they also cost more than the near H&As. If you don't really need a true H&A diamond, a near H&A will look just as beautiful and sparkly to most people. The differences between true H&A and near H&A diamonds are generally not worth the premium you pay for, unless you need the best and can afford them. I will post some links to near H&A diamonds, as well as true H&A ones so you can decide for yourself.


1. 1.82 ct I VS2 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.82-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-1057313

2. 1.73 ct H VS2 https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.73-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-1057314

3. 1.736 ct I VS2 http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3496145.htm

4. 1.82 ct I VS2 http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3658588.htm

5. 1.703 ct I VS1 http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.703-i-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104087405051#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/3/


H and I color diamonds will look very white when set in white gold or platinum settings, so there is basically no reason to go colorless unless the recipient is color sensitive or prefers D, E or F stones.
 

greentodiamonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
15
I appreciate everyone's feedback. However, since I have already bought this stone, it would be difficult to just pick another one. What I am wondering is, based on the specs I listed (especially the 33 crown with 41.2 pavilion), will this be a bad diamond? I spent a good amount on it so want it to shine bright and be sparkly... That being said, if you all think that it is worth switching stones regardless of the hassle, I want to do this. Please let me know your thoughts! Thank you kindly.
 

greentodiamonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
15
Also, does someone have the DiamCalc software they could run on these diamond specs to better understand the lighting etc?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,630
Nothing but an idealscope image or preferably an ASET image is going to be helpful enough to give you an opinion. Software is not going to be helpful. Do you have magnified images of the stone?
 

greentodiamonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
15
Here is the JA link which has magnified image of the stone:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.78-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-587984

I never asked for the ASET image as I was not aware of this during the purchase. Now that I own it, not sure how I would get it. I'm also on a tight timeframe as the setting is being custom made and production will begin next week with a delivery date of 3 weeks from now.

Any help would be appreciated! Is this stone bad enough that I should ditch it and start over even with the hassle or are the proportions, while not within ideal parameters, still a great stone that will produce great performance?
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,189
greentodiamonds|1467671429|4051481 said:
Here is the JA link which has magnified image of the stone:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.78-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-587984

I never asked for the ASET image as I was not aware of this during the purchase. Now that I own it, not sure how I would get it. I'm also on a tight timeframe as the setting is being custom made and production will begin next week with a delivery date of 3 weeks from now.

Any help would be appreciated! Is this stone bad enough that I should ditch it and start over even with the hassle or are the proportions, while not within ideal parameters, still a great stone that will produce great performance?
No, it's not so bad that you should throw it back based on numbers alone unless you want the best of the best in terms of optics. Only you can determine exactly what you want out of a stone and what amount of money you are willing to pay for it. As the previous poster stated, at a certain point you are paying for nuances in a super ideal that you may or may not be able to discern with the eye. If you want to know you got the best of the best in terms of cut, then you might want to return it and go for one of the others. It really all boils down to personal preference - what's right for one isn't necessarily so for another.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Yes, that is right. It may not be a Super Ideal Cut but then again it is not D color or Internally Flawless either. Look for a balance in the four C's that is what diamontologists will teach you and what the literature all says.
 

greentodiamonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
15
Well that is what I am getting at.... I got the H color because it was a good value with minimal impacts to the performance of the diamond... so are the specs of this diamond, specifically crown/pav angle (since those are slightly outside the range of super ideal) still going to yield me a great performing diamond with minimal impact to performance? Or, unlike the H color relative to performance, do the crown/pav specs detract enough from the performance that it is worth SWITCHING to a different diamond with super ideal proportions?
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3,696
It's difficult for us to answer that question without an IS or ASET image, solely from the video and without seeing the diamond in person. Do you have the stone or do they still have it since they are creating the setting? If they still have it, ask for the IS image. If it's in your possession, I'd suggest one of two things - buying a handheld IS/ASET to view the diamond and judge for yourself or taking it to a Hearts on Fire retailer near you and compare it to one of their stones (call in advance so they can line up some stones but I wouldn't tell them you'll be bringing yours along). Their stones are overpriced so don't give in but it's good to see how it performs and you can use that to judge the stone you bought!
 

greentodiamonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
15
Yes, the jeweler has my stone and is making the custom setting. I can try to ask for an idealscope image.

Does the 2011 report worry anyone?

Also, does anyone have similar specs to mine? Specifically 33 crown/41.2 pavilion?
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,183
2011 report should not present any issue - it does not necessarily mean it is a terrible stone that has been difficult to shift.


Somewhere there is a large table of the different compuuter-generated ASETscope images for all the crown/pavilion combinations, which you could check to get an idea of how yours may peform, but I can't find the link on this computer.

flyingpig may have posted it before? I can't remember.
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
4,088
The HCA score of "1.8-Excellent within TIC range" does fall within (actually right on top of the top border of) the white outline for AGS O candidate diamonds.

hca_1_2.jpg

Per the HCA tool, only the individual category of Fire received an "Excellent" score. If you were still in the searching phase, I'd usually suggest holding out for a diamond that also scores "Excellent" in Light Return and Scintillation.

Another tool to run on this diamond is the AGA Cut Class Tool - http://www.pricescope.com/tools/AGA_NAJA_Cut_Class_Grader - this diamond scored a total score of 1B

aga_1b.jpg

Did your JA representative provide a gemologist's opinion of the stone? Did you ever personally see the stone? Does your jeweler have an opinion on the stone?

My best guess is that this is a beautiful diamond with a solid performance. You already know it is not a super-ideal diamond, but IMHO a diamond scoring 1.8 on the HCA and a 1B on the AGA Cut Class Tool will be a diamond better than the vast majority of diamonds sold to consumers.
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,221
greentodiamonds|1467769330|4051866 said:
Yes, the jeweler has my stone and is making the custom setting. I can try to ask for an idealscope image.

Does the 2011 report worry anyone?

Also, does anyone have similar specs to mine? Specifically 33 crown/41.2 pavilion?

It seems, if the jeweler is willing, this might be a good approach to get an ASET or Ideal-Scope image that could be shared here.
 

greentodiamonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
15
Thanks for all of your replies thus far. I requested an Idealscope or ASET image and the jeweler provided the following image. Can you let me know if this is OK? Or what I should be looking at?

img_12108.jpg
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
That's an arrows image. It is neither an ASET or an Idealscope. They probably don't have one. All that does it show you the arrows. That's pattern not performance .
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
Gypsy|1467843021|4052263 said:
That's an arrows image. It is neither an ASET or an Idealscope. They probably don't have one. All that does it show you the arrows. That's pattern not performance .
Again, that's an arrows image. It does not reveal anything about light return/leakage or light performance
I would not spend $15k+ without the ASET/IS, unless the vendor has generous unconditional return policy AND you have your own tools and methods to verify diamond's performance.
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,259
Without an ASET people cannot really give you their opinion.

From a practical standpoint, if you never compare your stone to another you probably won't notice a difference, unless you look for it. Are there better performing diamonds out there? Sure. Will you notice or care? Not sure. Over time, I certainly did.
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
greentodiamonds|1467832357|4052168 said:
Thanks for all of your replies thus far. I requested an Idealscope or ASET image and the jeweler provided the following image. Can you let me know if this is OK? Or what I should be looking at?

Like what others have said, that is an arrows image and doesn't mean the diamond would have ideal light performance. First and foremost, a diamond needs to be ideal cut and show good performance under an idealscope/ASET scope image. Many people think that if a diamond has good hearts and arrows patterns alone, it will have the best performance. That is a common misunderstanding. Ideal-cut diamonds with proper proportions, great idealscope/ASET scope images AND precise hearts and arrows patterns = Super ideal diamonds. I would suggest looking for other alternatives if the vendor is unable to provide an idealscope/ASET image. After all, why would you spend that much money on a diamond without getting all the information you can get and knowing its performance?
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
greentodiamonds|1467832357|4052168 said:
Thanks for all of your replies thus far. I requested an Idealscope or ASET image and the jeweler provided the following image. Can you let me know if this is OK? Or what I should be looking at?
I attached an ideal scope image that I took of a diamond I have using a handheld ideal scope and a phone. The image isn't the best, but it would give you an idea what it looks like. Some jewelers may be reluctant to provide you an ideal scope/ASET scope image because it wouldn't put the diamond in the best light. It is usually easier to impress people with an arrows image. Or maybe they just don't have the tools to provide you with the scope images. Ideal scope/ASET scopes are evaluation tools, not sales tools and that's why many brick-and-mortars (and many online vendors) don't even have them.

ideal_scope_4.jpg
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
greentodiamonds|1467832357|4052168 said:
Thanks for all of your replies thus far. I requested an Idealscope or ASET image and the jeweler provided the following image. Can you let me know if this is OK? Or what I should be looking at?

I missed the part you mentioned in the post that you already have the stone and is having a jeweler making a setting for the stone. Like what some posters said, it may not be a top performer since it doesn't have ideal proportions and ideal scope/ASET scope image. But if it fits your budget and you are ok with how the diamond looks and performs to your eyes, then it will be up to you to decide if you want to keep it.
 
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