Can I trust HCA tool??

[stubobby]

All

After mucho internet browsing and research I am still without a stone. Due to budget and other responsibilities I have decided to downgrade my expectations slightly.

I am no aiming for a:-

1.1ish ct
G colour – or above
VS2 – or above
GIA Cert

Questions-

1. Can I trust the HCA tool? My method of testing a stone, and when finding something I like asking the jeweller if its available is proving difficult, as I reckon only about 1 in 8 stones come back from HCA with an EX, EX, etc etc etc. lots come back as “good” or “fair”, yet the jeweller still want ££££ big bucks for them? Also when I find a nice one, it is usually unavailable.

Can I trust HCA??

2. With a stone of this size, is it too small to mount in 6 claws, as I know this is what my partner actually wants

Cheers Aye

Stuart

 

[Rhino]

Hi stu,

All

After mucho internet browsing and research I am still without a stone. Due to budget and other responsibilities I have decided to downgrade my expectations slightly.

I am no aiming for a:-

1.1ish ct
G colour – or above
VS2 – or above
GIA Cert

Questions-

1. Can I trust the HCA tool?

The HCA tool can be trusted to provide a diamond that is very likely to have a solid red FireScope/IdealScope image. The question is ... does that always translate to the best looking diamonds? In many cases yes but not in all cases. In short it's good information to know but not an end all/be all tool. There are many other questions left unanswered by it relating to cut but it's a good start.

My method of testing a stone, and when finding something I like asking the jeweller if its available is proving difficult, as I reckon only about 1 in 8 stones come back from HCA with an EX, EX, etc etc etc. lots come back as “good” or “fair”, yet the jeweller still want ££££ big bucks for them? Also when I find a nice one, it is usually unavailable.

When vendors list "virtual" diamonds there are many which are listed which actually aren't available. It's a pain in the rear but the current reality.

Can I trust HCA??

Use it but verify the info.

2. With a stone of this size, is it too small to mount in 6 claws, as I know this is what my partner actually wants

Cheers Aye

Stuart

You can mount this in 6 prongs no problem.

Kind regards,
Rhino

 

[stubobby]

Rhino

thank you so much - that is really useful...

since you know yer stuff, can you comment on below pls

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/opinions-on-this-stone-pls.182188/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/opinions-on-this-stone-pls.182188/[/URL]

 

[Rhino]

Sure. First ... it's a good thing you didn't list *who* it was from because vendors are not allowed to comment on other known vendors wares.

While it is a diamond that qualifies for a GIA X the shallow crown angle is what concerns me. In the graphic below I input all the parameters of your diamond (on the right) and alongside of it (on the left) is what's considered a more traditional Tolkowsky Ideal Cut (34 crown angles, 40.8 pavilion, 56 table, 80% lower halves and 50% stars. This is in a diffuse office light view. As you view the two diamonds side by side in this graphic you can see more dark reflections in it demonstrating my concern. Now ... is it enough of a difference that you'd notice? Only 1 way to know for sure and that would be to compare the 2 side by side. The shallow crown angles & depth however will contribute to a very fiery diamond in spot lighting but not what I would consider the rarest optics when it comes to diffuse lighting.

Hope that helps.

Rhino

 

[yssie]

You can trust it to tell you whether a stone is likely worth further investigation.

You cannot trust it to tell you that a stone is either a winner or a doozy without further investigation, and you cannot trust it to install your kitchen sink.


ETA: very helpful after Rhino's posts, I know.

 

[stubobby]

Sure. First ... it's a good thing you didn't list *who* it was from because vendors are not allowed to comment on other known vendors wares.

While it is a diamond that qualifies for a GIA X the shallow crown angle is what concerns me. In the graphic below I input all the parameters of your diamond (on the right) and alongside of it (on the left) is what's considered a more traditional Tolkowsky Ideal Cut (34 crown angles, 40.8 pavilion, 56 table, 80% lower halves and 50% stars. This is in a diffuse office light view. As you view the two diamonds side by side in this graphic you can see more dark reflections in it demonstrating my concern. Now ... is it enough of a difference that you'd notice? Only 1 way to know for sure and that would be to compare the 2 side by side. The shallow crown angles & depth however will contribute to a very fiery diamond in spot lighting but not what I would consider the rarest optics when it comes to diffuse lighting.

Hope that helps.

Rhino

Thanks so much for info, but now I am even more concerned.... and confused...

Using the HCA tool, it gives ex,ex,ex,ex.... this is this 1st stone I have found with this.

If there are other concerns I am getting to the point where I am information overload about a subject I do not know much about.

I guess I want to dumb down the answer I guess. But please don’t get me wrong, it is very interesting and helpful getting this input.

Can you comment on the stone in "general terms" vs. the price quoted, and ultimately would it be a nice stone, when neither I nor my partner really knows much about this subject.

Further to that, can you perhaps tell me what parameters I should actually consider for the HCA tool? I am simply entering numbers and hoping for the best, but what range (for each category) should I actually be looking for?

I.e. - depth "x-y", table "x-y", angle "x-y" etc etc etc..

Thank you so so much

 

[Gypsy]

I'd like to clarify... are you trying to correlate the HCA results to the prices you are being quoted? Is that where the confusion is coming from?

 

[stubobby]

I'd like to clarify... are you trying to correlate the HCA results to the prices you are being quoted? Is that where the confusion is coming from?

NO, ultimately I am trying to find my girlfriend a great stone and get as much bang for my buck as I can....

The question about HCA came about because.... for example

i can find 2 stones
g
ex
1.1 ct
GIA
etc etc etc

but one has great HCA info and one doesnt - I was just trying to understand a bit more...

but i think i might have to simplify my choice a bit...

as above just want a nice stone, without getting ripped off in a random shop

 

[Rhino]

Hey Stu,

Comments below.

Sure. First ... it's a good thing you didn't list *who* it was from because vendors are not allowed to comment on other known vendors wares.

While it is a diamond that qualifies for a GIA X the shallow crown angle is what concerns me. In the graphic below I input all the parameters of your diamond (on the right) and alongside of it (on the left) is what's considered a more traditional Tolkowsky Ideal Cut (34 crown angles, 40.8 pavilion, 56 table, 80% lower halves and 50% stars. This is in a diffuse office light view. As you view the two diamonds side by side in this graphic you can see more dark reflections in it demonstrating my concern. Now ... is it enough of a difference that you'd notice? Only 1 way to know for sure and that would be to compare the 2 side by side. The shallow crown angles & depth however will contribute to a very fiery diamond in spot lighting but not what I would consider the rarest optics when it comes to diffuse lighting.

Hope that helps.

Rhino

Thanks so much for info, but now I am even more concerned.... and confused...

Using the HCA tool, it gives ex,ex,ex,ex.... this is this 1st stone I have found with this.

I understand. You'd think 4 "Ex's" on the HCA would be the cats meow right? Interestingly I've found some of the more beautiful diamonds will take a hit on spread via the HCA and have a score between 1-2 and sometimes even a little over 2.

If there are other concerns I am getting to the point where I am information overload about a subject I do not know much about.

I guess I want to dumb down the answer I guess. But please don’t get me wrong, it is very interesting and helpful getting this input.

I hear you and believe me when I tell you I empathize with information overload. I'm guilty of causing it myself and have a rather in depth article on the HCA that may or may not be good for you to read right now.

Can you comment on the stone in "general terms" vs. the price quoted, and ultimately would it be a nice stone, when neither I nor my partner really knows much about this subject.

"In general" ... hrm ... well ... I'll be candid. Anytime I see a diamond's information with the limited data that is generally published online there are a myriad of questions that I want to know the answers to relating to the gem material, the types of inclusions in the diamond, questions relating to color as well as cut but bear in mind you're talking to a gemological geek here. In general though ... a G VS2 GIA graded Ex with these proportions should be a "good" diamond. The shallower depth does give it a very good spread and G VS2 is a good grade.

Further to that, can you perhaps tell me what parameters I should actually consider for the HCA tool? I am simply entering numbers and hoping for the best, but what range (for each category) should I actually be looking for?

I.e. - depth "x-y", table "x-y", angle "x-y" etc etc etc..

Thank you so so much

For rounds ... I like to see depths ranging between 60.6-62.2%
Tables I like between 53-57%
Crown angles between 34-35
Pavilion angles between 40.6-41.0

generally speaking.

BTW I see you posted the price in "L" (European). Where overseas are you?

 

[susimoo]

Hey again Stubobby! It is your fellow Weegie here again.

I see you are still searching for a diamond. I had hoped that you had found one by now.

You seem to getting there though.

I am glad that you are asking all the right questions. I am also delighted to see Rhino, my diamond go to guy on your thread.
I won't say too much, but I am hoping from his replies you will now understand why I chose to go with him and Good Old Gold and not buy from the UK.

Good Luck, you are in good hands!

 

[bunnycat]

I'd like to clarify... are you trying to correlate the HCA results to the prices you are being quoted? Is that where the confusion is coming from?

NO, ultimately I am trying to find my girlfriend a great stone and get as much bang for my buck as I can....

The question about HCA came about because.... for example

i can find 2 stones
g
ex
1.1 ct
GIA
etc etc etc

but one has great HCA info and one doesnt - I was just trying to understand a bit more...

but i think i might have to simplify my choice a bit...

as above just want a nice stone, without getting ripped off in a random shop

Hi Stu-

Let me see if I understand where your confusion is coming from. It's a lot of completely overwhelming information. It does get easier over time but what I think you are saying, from a new person's perspective, is why do 2 diamonds that may be both GIA X and similar color and clarity etc, etc. one gets a good HCA and the other not so good (or something like that)? Does that boil it down?

I think the problem lies in not understanding (yet?) how all the angles and percents posted in a cert affect the way the diamond handles light. (If you want to get in depth, Rhinos articles will cover the why's and wherefores of that.) Basically, some combinations work better than others (the angle combos you see people post around here to keep in the parameters of) and some don't work well at all. If you have 2 stones specifically that you are confused about, you might post all the angles and numbers then people might be able to look at them and say why one might score better than another.

Good luck!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Many consumers are happy with GI Ex cuts and do not care about the HCA.

Others wand GIA Ex cuts and a good HCA.

Others want even more information, like an appraiser's opinion, or using their own eyes to compare potential diamonds to one another.

Each tool narrows the pool of availables, so it all depends how specific you want to be about the diamond and its particular pefection and adherence to a particular make.

So, the HCA is one tool among other valid selection (or rejection) tools: The lab cut grade, the HCA, photos, imaging technology like Ideal Scope or others, your own eyes, the eyes and opinion of an appraiser. How you reank the importance of those tools (with the expection of Lab Cut grade, which I think should always be the first selection tool) is up to you.

It is important to note that only the GIA cut grade (and other report details) determines pricing. None of the other factors matter all that much on the general market Whether you get ripped off or not is separate from the HCA and other tools.

 

[TC1987]

The "Pricescope cheat sheet; that I told you to search for gives the ranges or table sizes, etc. that many people here use as a starting point to narrow down the possible choices to just diamonds that are in the "ideal cut" range. My preferences are similar to Jon's (Rhino): Small tables and taller crowns. So, those are the two specs I'll look at first when I sift through a table of diamond listings.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-me-narrow-my-search-cut-specs-table-crown-depth-etc.131374/#p2319317']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-me-narrow-my-search-cut-specs-table-crown-depth-etc.131374/#p2319317[/URL]
has the "cheat sheet" values

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-crown-and-pavillion-angels-matter-if-you-have-aset.177201/#post-3226651#p3226651']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/do-crown-and-pavillion-angels-matter-if-you-have-aset.177201/#post-3226651#p3226651[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/on-the-hca-tic-bic-or-fic.107149/#post-1785631#p1785631']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/on-the-hca-tic-bic-or-fic.107149/#post-1785631#p1785631[/URL]

There is, under Resources at the top of the page, a Diamond Search. I search through there and usually I only look at In-House diamonds with Excellent cut. Find something with similar specs to the one(s) you are considering, and see what the prices are. Whiteflash might be another site to look through, because they have lots of listings.

 

[stubobby]

Hey Stu,

Comments below.

Sure. First ... it's a good thing you didn't list *who* it was from because vendors are not allowed to comment on other known vendors wares.

While it is a diamond that qualifies for a GIA X the shallow crown angle is what concerns me. In the graphic below I input all the parameters of your diamond (on the right) and alongside of it (on the left) is what's considered a more traditional Tolkowsky Ideal Cut (34 crown angles, 40.8 pavilion, 56 table, 80% lower halves and 50% stars. This is in a diffuse office light view. As you view the two diamonds side by side in this graphic you can see more dark reflections in it demonstrating my concern. Now ... is it enough of a difference that you'd notice? Only 1 way to know for sure and that would be to compare the 2 side by side. The shallow crown angles & depth however will contribute to a very fiery diamond in spot lighting but not what I would consider the rarest optics when it comes to diffuse lighting.

Hope that helps.

Rhino

Thanks so much for info, but now I am even more concerned.... and confused...

Using the HCA tool, it gives ex,ex,ex,ex.... this is this 1st stone I have found with this.

I understand. You'd think 4 "Ex's" on the HCA would be the cats meow right? Interestingly I've found some of the more beautiful diamonds will take a hit on spread via the HCA and have a score between 1-2 and sometimes even a little over 2.

If there are other concerns I am getting to the point where I am information overload about a subject I do not know much about.

I guess I want to dumb down the answer I guess. But please don’t get me wrong, it is very interesting and helpful getting this input.

I hear you and believe me when I tell you I empathize with information overload. I'm guilty of causing it myself and have a rather in depth article on the HCA that may or may not be good for you to read right now.

Can you comment on the stone in "general terms" vs. the price quoted, and ultimately would it be a nice stone, when neither I nor my partner really knows much about this subject.

"In general" ... hrm ... well ... I'll be candid. Anytime I see a diamond's information with the limited data that is generally published online there are a myriad of questions that I want to know the answers to relating to the gem material, the types of inclusions in the diamond, questions relating to color as well as cut but bear in mind you're talking to a gemological geek here. In general though ... a G VS2 GIA graded Ex with these proportions should be a "good" diamond. The shallower depth does give it a very good spread and G VS2 is a good grade.

Further to that, can you perhaps tell me what parameters I should actually consider for the HCA tool? I am simply entering numbers and hoping for the best, but what range (for each category) should I actually be looking for?

I.e. - depth "x-y", table "x-y", angle "x-y" etc etc etc..

Thank you so so much

For rounds ... I like to see depths ranging between 60.6-62.2%
Tables I like between 53-57%
Crown angles between 34-35
Pavilion angles between 40.6-41.0

generally speaking.

BTW I see you posted the price in "L" (European). Where overseas are you?

Rhino

Many many thanks for all the information you have put up here..... it really makes for interesting reading, but I feel gets a pleb like me no closer to a nice stone..... I get overly concerned with every little thing you bring up, and should I try to follow it all, I will undoubtedly go over budget.

Here is my modified plan....

Stick with

G colour - or above
VS2 - or above
GIA
Cut - Ex
etc etc etc

Then use the HCA parameters you have set forth and hopefully I can find a stone... need to get moving now, as I have a date in January planned and flights booked.

Further than that I will post details of the stone up here, and all I am really looking for it

"Yes that "should" be nice and its decent value”

OR

"No forget that one."

Like I said - I am really appreciative of what you have put up so far, but ultimately it just makes my head spin, in terms of actually arriving at a decision.

I am based in the UK - so if you have any recommendations or otherwise that would be great...

Not sure if there are limitations **edited by moderator. please do not post personal information publicly per our policies**

 

[stubobby]

Dear All

Thanks to all of you who have posted info on here...

I am finding it really interesting and helpful, but still confusing.

I guess it would be easier to dumb it down a bit, It seems to me that there could be something wrong with every stone?? (that is defo a question, not a statement) if you look hard enough.

All i am really hoping to arrive at is

"YUP - that looks good at that price, and will be really nice"

OR

"NO - avoid that one"

I know that’s really hard and some may not keen on simplifying it that much, but like I say I am just trying to end up with a nice ring, and not get ripped off too much....

Thank you so so so much to you all who have posted - it really means alot.

Yours Aye
Stuart
Glasgow, Scotland.

 

[yssie]

Dear All

Thanks to all of you who have posted info on here...

I am finding it really interesting and helpful, but still confusing.

I guess it would be easier to dumb it down a bit, It seems to me that there could be something wrong with every stone?? (that is defo a question, not a statement) if you look hard enough.

All i am really hoping to arrive at is

"YUP - that looks good at that price, and will be really nice"

OR

"NO - avoid that one"

I know that’s really hard and some may not keen on simplifying it that much, but like I say I am just trying to end up with a nice ring, and not get ripped off too much....

Thank you so so so much to you all who have posted - it really means alot.

Yours Aye
Stuart
Glasgow, Scotland.

Stuart,

If you prefer to keep it simple, it's very easy to simplify this process:

Choose a GIA EX or AGSL 0/1, run it through HCA and if it comes out under 3 (I know the site says two, but bump it up to three) take it home and call it a day. You're *guaranteed* to have chosen a lovely stone. Make things even easier on yourself and buy stone and setting from the same vendor, if possible.
Or, alternatively, if you want to buy from a PS vendor, tell them your budget and basic specs - colour/clarity/etc. and let them find you some options from their in-house stock.

You really don't need to go through every last article, thread, and tutorial here to get a pretty stone at a good price. The problems come up when people think they do want to get into the nitty gritty but they're looking for the easy way get at that info - the "nitty gritty cheat sheet", so to speak. There IS no cheat sheet, and as you've noted one can find problems with the vast majority of stones that are just fine IRL if one tries...


In your situation I honestly don't think the tools and threads are going to do you any favours in your search - without context a lot of it is either meaningless or outright misleading, and that context can take a while to learn, and as I said earlier there's no real need to dig if all you want is a beautiful stone at a fair price

This coming from someone who specializes in nitpicking.

 

[stubobby]

Dear All

Thanks to all of you who have posted info on here...

I am finding it really interesting and helpful, but still confusing.

I guess it would be easier to dumb it down a bit, It seems to me that there could be something wrong with every stone?? (that is defo a question, not a statement) if you look hard enough.

All i am really hoping to arrive at is

"YUP - that looks good at that price, and will be really nice"

OR

"NO - avoid that one"

I know that’s really hard and some may not keen on simplifying it that much, but like I say I am just trying to end up with a nice ring, and not get ripped off too much....

Thank you so so so much to you all who have posted - it really means alot.

Yours Aye
Stuart
Glasgow, Scotland.

Stuart,

If you prefer to keep it simple, it's very easy to simplify this process:

Choose a GIA EX or AGSL 0/1, run it through HCA and if it comes out under 3 (I know the site says two, but bump it up to three) take it home and call it a day. You're *guaranteed* to have chosen a lovely stone. Make things even easier on yourself and buy stone and setting from the same vendor, if possible.
Or, alternatively, if you want to buy from a PS vendor, tell them your budget and basic specs - colour/clarity/etc. and let them find you some options from their in-house stock.

You really don't need to go through every last article, thread, and tutorial here to get a pretty stone at a good price. The problems come up when people think they do want to get into the nitty gritty but they're looking for the easy way get at that info - the "nitty gritty cheat sheet", so to speak. There IS no cheat sheet, and as you've noted one can find problems with the vast majority of stones that are just fine IRL if one tries...


In your situation I honestly don't think the tools and threads are going to do you any favours in your search - without context a lot of it is either meaningless or outright misleading, and that context can take a while to learn, and as I said earlier there's no real need to dig if all you want is a beautiful stone at a fair price

This coming from someone who specializes in nitpicking.

Thanks so much for that – I like that chat…
I do like nit-picking and learning, and wanna get as much as I can for the cash….
Just don’t wanna get bogged down unnecessarily……
But get an idea that I will be happy with what I buy.
Cheers

 

[TC1987]

There's no getting something for nothing in this business. The vendors are in business to make money. Many people come on here with the notion that "I have this budget, and I want perfection for it." If that budget is too low for what you want, you must compromise. Either you go down in one or more of color, size, clarity, or cut, or you increase your budget to buy what you want.

SI2 grade: People have told you that clouds that set the clarity diamond need to be visually inspected to see if they are detrimental to the appearance. Eye-clean is defined different ways by different vendors, some of whom use 10" and not 3" or 4". I personally think that any SI2 diamond today will not be totally eye-clean at very close range, or in all lighting conditions, or at all angles. You or somebody you trust has to look at it. You'd probably have to look at SI1 and up to get perfectly eyeclean close up, but that's just my opinion. There definitely far fewer eyeclean SI2 diamonds now, compared to what people were finding in 2003-2004. Diamond clarity is graded face-up, so you might also see inclusions or feathers from the side(s).

Color: G is good. But people said you can go down to H color, too. H in that size range ought to white enough. I color range is where most people start noticing tint. Color is graded upside down.

Cut: Here, we think cut is most important. There is the "cheat sheet" of diamond parameters to use to reject some stones, and the HCA cut adviser to get a rough idea of whether or not the diamond is cut well enough to be worth further consideration. Large tables are prone to table glare off the large table facet, and if they have a low crown (shallow crown angle or low % crown) they might be more brilliance than fire. If they are shallow stones 60% or 58% depth or less, they might appear dark when viewed close-up, but be okay at arm's length or so.

So, that is why, in a nutshell, PS says stick with certain depths, table size ranges, etc.

For price: You look up comparable diamonds in the Diamond Search, and /or big vendor sites like Whiteflash, and you see how much it would cost you to buy it from them vs. buy the local diamond you are looking at. Or, you contact all the stores in your locale for quotes.

 

[stubobby]

There's no getting something for nothing in this business. The vendors are in business to make money. Many people come on here with the notion that "I have this budget, and I want perfection for it." If that budget is too low for what you want, you must compromise. Either you go down in one or more of color, size, clarity, or cut, or you increase your budget to buy what you want.

SI2 grade: People have told you that clouds that set the clarity diamond need to be visually inspected to see if they are detrimental to the appearance. Eye-clean is defined different ways by different vendors, some of whom use 10" and not 3" or 4". I personally think that any SI2 diamond today will not be totally eye-clean at very close range, or in all lighting conditions, or at all angles. You or somebody you trust has to look at it. You'd probably have to look at SI1 and up to get perfectly eyeclean close up, but that's just my opinion. There definitely far fewer eyeclean SI2 diamonds now, compared to what people were finding in 2003-2004. Diamond clarity is graded face-up, so you might also see inclusions or feathers from the side(s).

Color: G is good. But people said you can go down to H color, too. H in that size range ought to white enough. I color range is where most people start noticing tint. Color is graded upside down.

Cut: Here, we think cut is most important. There is the "cheat sheet" of diamond parameters to use to reject some stones, and the HCA cut adviser to get a rough idea of whether or not the diamond is cut well enough to be worth further consideration. Large tables are prone to table glare off the large table facet, and if they have a low crown (shallow crown angle or low % crown) they might be more brilliance than fire. If they are shallow stones 60% or 58% depth or less, they might appear dark when viewed close-up, but be okay at arm's length or so.

So, that is why, in a nutshell, PS says stick with certain depths, table size ranges, etc.

For price: You look up comparable diamonds in the Diamond Search, and /or big vendor sites like Whiteflash, and you see how much it would cost you to buy it from them vs. buy the local diamond you are looking at. Or, you contact all the stores in your locale for quotes.

Hi there - thanks for input...

i am not someone who expects perfection for nothing....

i just dont wanna get ripped, and buy something with a fair and reasonable ticket price.

I have arrived at the spces I would like to acheive after much reading and advice, i then sized the diamond based on my budget

BUT if you feel i should maybe drop a spec or 2 to get a bigger ring for my gf, then pls advice so....

specs i would "like" to acheive

G or above
VS2 or above
GIA cert
cut ex
polish ex....

add that altogether and my budget allows something in the region of a 1.1 ct...

but if you reckon i am doing thing a bit backwards, pls suggest alternatives...

cheers

 

[JulieN]

I think you are doing it backwards. You tell us what you want, who you want to buy it from, and let us suggest a handful.

 

[stubobby]

I think you are doing it backwards. You tell us what you want, who you want to buy it from, and let us suggest a handful.

ok - well what i sort of want is above - like i say open to any suggestions....

have to buy in the UK, kinda noticed that most UK vendors wont supply pics.

 

[yssie]

I think you are doing it backwards. You tell us what you want, who you want to buy it from, and let us suggest a handful.

ok - well what i sort of want is above - like i say open to any suggestions....

have to buy in the UK, kinda noticed that most UK vendors wont supply pics.

Budget?

 

[stubobby]

I think you are doing it backwards. You tell us what you want, who you want to buy it from, and let us suggest a handful.

ok - well what i sort of want is above - like i say open to any suggestions....

have to buy in the UK, kinda noticed that most UK vendors wont supply pics.

Budget?

the budget would become what it "needs" to be - i guess i would be comfortable with about £5 - £6k...

Cheers