shape
carat
color
clarity

Can i get feedback on this stone

B9BA093D-F35D-414C-BA54-97DE9B4BCAC9.jpeg

NOT an inclusion. It’s dust!!

But what if it’s not? The amount of stress those damn white specks caused me is so hard to describe. And if someone’s dealing with a clarity-conscious person it’s not with the risk.

If it’s dust, they need to find a way to take the 360-videos in a vacuum chamber.

Here’s the AGS... is that white speck dust or the crystal inclusion reflecting through?

BD825F42-7991-45EE-97BE-648C950801A3.jpeg
 
I hate to be a downer here, @holeydonut but I honestly don't think you have realistic expectations for what to expect from diamonds. And I don't think you are doing yourself or your GF any favors by obsessing over literal specs of dust. We have all been saying the exact same things about clarity, yet you are still talking about a tiny spec on a VS1 diamond that is zoomed in extremely close.
 
I hate to be a downer here, @holeydonut but I honestly don't think you have realistic expectations for what to expect from diamonds. And I don't think you are doing yourself or your GF any favors by obsessing over literal specs of dust. We have all been saying the exact same things about clarity, yet you are still talking about a tiny spec on a VS1 diamond that is zoomed in extremely close.


OP literally said his GF was nudging him into the VVS territory for whatever bias is in her head. The videos on Whiteflash and BGD for VVS diamonds simply don't have the "dust" issue. So there's something there, and I think it's actually a disservice for people to steer a diamond buyer who is being told by their SO that they "require" a VVS or better.

The diamond ring isn't for the man to rationalize, it's for the woman to appreciate. Some women have some really high standards based on the marketing coming their way as well as the banter from their friends.

If a VS1 is supposed to be "clean," they'll want proof that the diamond is indeed clean. Imagine if she sees a white speck in real life even after an ultrasonic cleaning... and the speck matches a 360-shiny-video of the same white inclusion. It's just not worth the risk to the person putting tens of thousands into the diamond/ring.
 
@Audis410 ; this is the other diamond that I really wanted to get (I purchased a Black by Brian Gavin instead).

It is probably the most perfect cut I've seen at Whiteflash or any other "Super-Ideal" vendor while searching. This one has absolutely no "dust" (or any permanent white speck) that follows a constant point on the diamond table as the 360-video spins around. All the inclusions are in the pavilion-side. F color also means absolutely no risk of "is this yellow?" when mounted alongside premium F/G melee in a halo setting.

1.613 ct F VVS1 A CUT ABOVE
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4023504.htm

This one scores an astounding 0.8 on the HCA and posesses the cleanest ASET scope, AGS-ASET-Ray-Trace, Hearts and Arrows, and Idealscopes results you'll find. Period. I think it's even better than the Black by Brian Gavin I purchased. But, I went with BGD due to the setting selection he had.

The Hearts & Arrows have absolutely none of the little kinks or faint crevices that you'll see in some other Ideal Cut H&A views. If you can rationalize it in your budget (maybe sales tax is a theoretical savings?), I honestly think this is the uncompromising stone that is cut to standards that would make some Super-Ideals blush. $24,620 though.

https://www.whiteflash.com/pdf/104100735004.pdf (AGS 104100735004)
 
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@holeydonut , that stone is definitely nice! however, it's 24k, not within budget:razz:
 
@holeydonut , that stone is definitely nice! however, it's 24k, not within budget:razz:

If your GF is Asian and you are in good graces with as her parents... I don't think there's harm asking her family to offer some possible support. There's a reason she is uncompromising (VVS and colorless); and that's usually because her parents are uncompromising.

If the budget issue is a few thousand, they may work with you to find the uncompromising stone their daughter "deserves" or some other attempt at a rationalization. If you're looking at VVS, Super-Ideal, F, > 1.6 ct already; I think you're already heading that direction.
 
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Garry (inventor of HCA) says HCA of under 1 are better suited for studs or pendants in his opinion. Just adding that.

I never did quite understand that take on the HCA for stud earrings. How are you supposed to find two matching less than 1.0 HCA cuts? I searched for weeks and saw maybe 3 ... definitely not matching.

But you can't deny... that Whiteflash 1.6 has some remarkable scope images and would be mind-blowing on an engagement ring.
 
I got some additional details on that 2nd diamond i posted:
LD18081471 RBC 1.71 cts G VVS1
Verify Certificate
Diamond Details
Stone No LD18081471
Lab GIA
Report No 6302186887
Inscription GIA 6302186887
Shape RBC
Carat Weight 1.71
Color G
Clarity VVS1
Cut EX
Polish EX
Symmetry EX
Fluorescence FNT
- -
- -
- -
QC Details
Shade None
Tinge NO
Luster EX
Eye Clean E0
Milky M0
Table Inclusion NO
Side Inclusion NO
Open Inclusion NO
Extra Facet NO
Natural NO
Internal Graining NO
Surface Graining NO
Hearts And Arrow VG
Availablity AVAILABLE
Location HongKong


Parameter Details
Measurement 7.67-7.69*4.72
Total Depth 61.50
Table % 56.00
Crown Angle/Height 34.50 ° / 15.00 mm
Pavilion Angle/Height 40.60 ° / 42.50 mm
Star Length 50.00 %
Lower Halves 80.00 %
Girdle F
Culet NON
Ratio -
Comments
Cert. Comment


Keys to Symbols Pinpoint


Laxmi Comment No Tinge, 100% EyeClean, EX Luster, VG H&A

Think imma go ahead and give this one a try since they offer a 30-day return.
 
I got some additional details on that 2nd diamond i posted:
LD18081471 RBC 1.71 cts G VVS1
Verify Certificate
Diamond Details
Stone No LD18081471
Lab GIA
Report No 6302186887
Inscription GIA 6302186887
Shape RBC
Carat Weight 1.71
Color G
Clarity VVS1
Cut EX
Polish EX
Symmetry EX
Fluorescence FNT
- -
- -
- -
QC Details
Shade None
Tinge NO
Luster EX
Eye Clean E0
Milky M0
Table Inclusion NO
Side Inclusion NO
Open Inclusion NO
Extra Facet NO
Natural NO
Internal Graining NO
Surface Graining NO
Hearts And Arrow VG
Availablity AVAILABLE
Location HongKong


Parameter Details
Measurement 7.67-7.69*4.72
Total Depth 61.50
Table % 56.00
Crown Angle/Height 34.50 ° / 15.00 mm
Pavilion Angle/Height 40.60 ° / 42.50 mm
Star Length 50.00 %
Lower Halves 80.00 %
Girdle F
Culet NON
Ratio -
Comments
Cert. Comment


Keys to Symbols Pinpoint


Laxmi Comment No Tinge, 100% EyeClean, EX Luster, VG H&A

Think imma go ahead and give this one a try since they offer a 30-day return.

Do you have any pics for us to see? I can’t wait to see it; what is the time frame for it? I personally prefer 77% for lower halves, but 80 isn’t a deal breaker
 
GIA 6302186887 3.png 3652714_1.jpg
any feedbacks?
 
What the :silenced: is going on in here?


the-iconic-picard-facepalm.jpeg


Just a list of the craziest things I've heard today...
  • For top of the line "quality" buy Tiffany <pause, trying not to laugh>
  • Super ideal w/ VS1 clarity is unacceptable because a piece of dust got captured in a MAGNIFIED view. Oh god, what happens if IRL you aren't in your special bubble and the wind blows some dust on your precious stone?
  • Pretty sure @holeydonut is also Asian, and he literally said F was white enough with no chance of yellow. My world is upside down. Other Asians and myself have debated the same topic and I left with the impression they believed F's are made of doggie golden showers.
  • Our newest resident expert has decided that somehow running an AGS certified stone through the HCA tool provides some reassurance, when the inventor himself says it's for GIA stones only. Why? Because GIA uses old 2D technology and the HCA tries to analyze those properties for light performance. AGS actually uses a 3D model and is more advanced and reliable than the HCA. Short version = you don't use HCA on AGS stones, as it's inferior to AGS modeling and reports.
  • Not that I have anything against the 1.63 F VVS1 ACA posted, but please explain (in detail) why it's so superior to any other ACA or other super ideal diamond available?
    • While awesome, it seems pretty typical of their product.
  • Suggesting the OP go to the soon-to-be fiancee's parents and ask for a loan to buy a diamond that their daughter "deserves". Just tacky.
 
lol, I just absorb information i deemed helpful and ignore the irrelevant. Everyone have different taste, style, needs, wants, etc. However, thanks to you guys, i did learned a little more on parameters required for a nice stone. cheers!
 
GIA 6302186887 3.png 3652714_1.jpg
any feedbacks?

That's gorgeous, good choice! Sorry this thread got derailed. I don't like to see misinformation being thrown around like facts, which @holeydonut is doing here. Regardless, that has no bearing on your stone, which I think is an excellent choice! :appl::appl:
 
This stone looks very promising. If you aren't willing to go down on VVS+ clarity so you can dip into the super ideal pool, then I'd definitely give this consideration. Angles look very good, and so do the still pictures.

Better than the ones I posted IMO.


I got some additional details on that 2nd diamond i posted:
LD18081471 RBC 1.71 cts G VVS1
Verify Certificate
Diamond Details
Stone No LD18081471
Lab GIA
Report No 6302186887
Inscription GIA 6302186887
Shape RBC
Carat Weight 1.71
Color G
Clarity VVS1
Cut EX
Polish EX
Symmetry EX
Fluorescence FNT
- -
- -
- -
QC Details
Shade None
Tinge NO
Luster EX
Eye Clean E0
Milky M0
Table Inclusion NO
Side Inclusion NO
Open Inclusion NO
Extra Facet NO
Natural NO
Internal Graining NO
Surface Graining NO
Hearts And Arrow VG
Availablity AVAILABLE
Location HongKong


Parameter Details
Measurement 7.67-7.69*4.72
Total Depth 61.50
Table % 56.00
Crown Angle/Height 34.50 ° / 15.00 mm
Pavilion Angle/Height 40.60 ° / 42.50 mm
Star Length 50.00 %
Lower Halves 80.00 %
Girdle F
Culet NON
Ratio -
Comments
Cert. Comment


Keys to Symbols Pinpoint


Laxmi Comment No Tinge, 100% EyeClean, EX Luster, VG H&A

Think imma go ahead and give this one a try since they offer a 30-day return.

GIA 6302186887 3.png 3652714_1.jpg
any feedbacks?
 
I simply said buying Tiffany allows you to use their brand as the strength instead of trying to puff up an online vendor that the GF likely has never heard of. You tell me which is easier to accomplish; educating someone on an online brand or convincing the same person that Tiffany rings are sub-par to that online vendor? What am I missing here? Seems like common sense to me, but maybe not to you.

If the world blows dust onto your stone, you can wash it off. If you buy a stone with a white spec that is visible at tilt angles after washing, then you're the one who compromised. Fairly simple concept. The videos you see of diamonds online consistently show white specs on the table/crown of VS1 diamonds at tilt angles while VVS usually don't have the issue. I have a hard time believing that it's dust in the videos. In-person viewing of "dirty mall diamonds" and jeweler diamonds only reinforces the bias that some of the specks are indeed inclusions visible at tilt angles. Some women don't want an VS1. What am I missing here? Seems like common sense to me, the OP's GF literally told him a VVS or better was required because she doesn't want to deal with rationalizations or compromises.

If you mount a H stone next to F/G melee, some people can see the yellow of the H stone due to the contrast of the melee colors. What am I missing here? H is likely going to appear more yellow than an F; especially next to F/G melee or pave. Seems like common sense but I guess you can call it the dog piss effect to feel better about your opinion.

I think by now it's obvious the folks on PS strive for a super-ideal cut that is only marginally better than the regular ideal cut. Last I checked, an HCA score of 0.8 was better than compared to an HCA of 2.0? What am I missing here? You guys talk about HCA scores all the time, and 0.8 is really good? Right?

3B9B3609-526D-4447-851F-B09EC4A9D416.png

Do you need me to point out the little kinks in the tips of the hearts and slightly irregular heart shapes of the hearts in this image? That Whiteflash ACA doesn't have those irregularities on the scope. And the definition/color on the ASET is very good. Are you saying you can find a better ASET result than the Whiteflash 1.6?

pic.jpg

Don't let your pride get in the way of exploring options. You don't know what's going through the mind of someone else or their parents, and it's more "tacky" to assume you know what's best without asking.
 
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I simply said buying Tiffany allows you to use their brand as the strength instead of trying to puff up an online vendor that the GF likely has never heard of. You tell me which is easier to accomplish; educating someone on an online brand or convincing the same person that Tiffany rings are sub-par to that online vendor? What am I missing here? Seems like common sense to me, but maybe not to you.

If the world blows dust onto your stone, you can wash it off. If you buy a stone with a white spec that is visible at tilt angles after washing, then you're the one who compromised. Fairly simple concept. The videos you see of diamonds online consistently show white specs on the table/crown of VS1 diamonds while VVS don't have the issue. I have a hard time believing that it's dust in the videos. In-person viewing of "dirty mall diamonds" and jeweler diamonds only reinforces the bias that some of the specs are indeed visible at tilt angles. Some women don't want an VS1. What am I missing here? Seems like common sense to me, the OP's GF literally told him a VVS or better was required because she doesn't want to deal with rationalizations or compromises.

If you mount a H stone next to F/G melee, some people can see the yellow of the H stone due to the contrast of the melee colors. What am I missing here? H is likely going to appear more yellow than an F; especially next to F/G melee or pave.

I think by now it's obvious the folks on PS strive for a super-ideal cut that is only marginally better than the regular ideal cut. Last I checked, an HCA score of 0.8 was better than compared to an HCA of 2.0? What am I missing here? You guys talk about HCA scores all the time, and 0.8 is really good? Right?

3B9B3609-526D-4447-851F-B09EC4A9D416.png

Do you need me to point out the little kinks in the tips of the hearts and slightly irregular heart shapes of the hearts themselves this image? That Whiteflash ACA doesn't have those irregularities on the scope. And the definition/color on the ASET is very good. Are you saying you can find a better ASET result than the Whiteflash 1.6?

pic.jpg


No. HCA is an exclusion tool, not an inclusion tool. A .8 is not better than a 1.9

IMO and YMMV, super ideal diamonds are superior to ideal cut diamonds. I have seen this with my own eyes. The edge to edge brightness and fire can’t be beat.
 
@holeydonut RE: the HCA 0.8 is NOT better than 2. Once below the 2 threshold lower does not mean better. The HCA is not a selection tool; it is only an elimination tool for GIA graded stones.

EDIT - whitewave beat me to the punch
 
upload_2018-9-7_14-57-50.pngare those specks related to the pinpoints shown in the GIA report? the one on the table does look concerning
 

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upload_2018-9-7_14-57-50.pngare those specks related to the pinpoints shown in the GIA report? the one on the table does look concerning

I don’t know what to tell you guys. I want to say stop worrying about it. But maybe you all need to stick with IF FL. I mean, if your GF believes her worth depends on that high of a clarity, then I guess you had better get what she wants.

My first engagement diamond was an eye clean I1.OMG. And yet, I am still married to him 23 years now and together for 30...
 
No. HCA is an exclusion tool, not an inclusion tool. A .8 is not better than a 1.9

IMO and YMMV, super ideal diamonds are superior to ideal cut diamonds. I have seen this with my own eyes. The edge to edge brightness and fire can’t be beat.


Thanks for correcting! So an HCA of 0.8 may not be perfect for a ring. But it doesn't exclude the diamond as being good for an engagement ring. Although I'm still not sure why a 0.8 is sub-optimal for a ring.

I guess the 1.0 HCA that I went with was the right choice after all.
 
I simply said buying Tiffany allows you to use their brand as the strength instead of trying to puff up an online vendor that the GF likely has never heard of. You tell me which is easier to accomplish; educating someone on an online brand or convincing the same person that Tiffany rings are sub-par to that online vendor? What am I missing here? Seems like common sense to me, but maybe not to you.

If the world blows dust onto your stone, you can wash it off. If you buy a stone with a white spec that is visible at tilt angles after washing, then you're the one who compromised. Fairly simple concept. The videos you see of diamonds online consistently show white specs on the table/crown of VS1 diamonds at tilt angles while VVS usually don't have the issue. I have a hard time believing that it's dust in the videos. In-person viewing of "dirty mall diamonds" and jeweler diamonds only reinforces the bias that some of the specks are indeed inclusions visible at tilt angles. Some women don't want an VS1. What am I missing here? Seems like common sense to me, the OP's GF literally told him a VVS or better was required because she doesn't want to deal with rationalizations or compromises.

If you mount a H stone next to F/G melee, some people can see the yellow of the H stone due to the contrast of the melee colors. What am I missing here? H is likely going to appear more yellow than an F; especially next to F/G melee or pave. Seems like common sense but I guess you can call it the dog piss effect to feel better about your opinion.

I think by now it's obvious the folks on PS strive for a super-ideal cut that is only marginally better than the regular ideal cut. Last I checked, an HCA score of 0.8 was better than compared to an HCA of 2.0? What am I missing here? You guys talk about HCA scores all the time, and 0.8 is really good? Right?

3B9B3609-526D-4447-851F-B09EC4A9D416.png

Do you need me to point out the little kinks in the tips of the hearts and slightly irregular heart shapes of the hearts in this image? That Whiteflash ACA doesn't have those irregularities on the scope. And the definition/color on the ASET is very good. Are you saying you can find a better ASET result than the Whiteflash 1.6?

pic.jpg

Don't let your pride get in the way of exploring options. You don't know what's going through the mind of someone else or their parents, and it's more "tacky" to assume you know what's best without asking.

You are wrong on most of the above. 1.8 HCA vs .5 doesn't matter. It's a rejection tool. Anything over 2 = reject. Under 2 = potentially accept. If you don't want to believe posters who have years of experience looking at and buying diamonds (with no agenda or any skin in the game for what brand people buy) then that's your parrogative. If you want to think Tiffany is best or that VS1 isn't eye clean, then go for it. But facts and data say you are wrong, and you aren't helping your case by trying to convince us of your misinterpretations.
 
You are wrong on most of the above. 1.8 HCA vs .5 doesn't matter. It's a rejection tool. Anything over 2 = reject. Under 2 = potentially accept. If you don't want to believe posters who have years of experience looking at and buying diamonds (with no agenda or any skin in the game for what brand people buy) then that's your parrogative. If you want to think Tiffany is best or that VS1 isn't eye clean, then go for it. But facts and data say you are wrong, and you aren't helping your case by trying to convince us of your misinterpretations.

Are you just mis-interpreting my point on purpose? I'm so confused...

I said it would be hard for the OP to convince his GF about the virtues of an online-ordered super-ideal cut instead of Tiffany. There's benefit to avoid trying to modify perception instead of just going with it.

I personally don't have any issue with online vendors. I have on order a Black by Brian Gavin because I thought it was the best option available for all of my requirements. My point, which I hope you understand, is that I've had to spend effort trying to explain to my GF why some "guy named Brian" has better jewelry than what you can get with a Tiffany Soleste.

I don't like Tiffany & Co... Most Women like Tiffany & Co.
I'm not buying for myself... I'm buying for my future wife (I hope).
OP isn't buying the ring for himself... he's buying for his future wife (we hope).
 
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