Buying my first diamond for proposal

[kLvru]

Hi guys,

I'm planning to get my first diamond for the upcoming proposal, from zero knowledge to knowing a bit now. I have been shopping around locally and found one that I'm keen on.

I did read through a few post in this forum, where basically suggested VS1 feather is not of a concern and Medium Blue fluorescence should still be fine in D color.

Based on the proportions, everything seems to fall within or borderline Ideal/SuperIdeal proportions? And one of the older thread also suggested that 34-41.2 should have no light leakage. But when I put these into the HCA, the result return a 3.0.

Thus; would like to ask what you guys think of this?

GIA dated 2010

Weight: 0.5 CT
Color: D
Clarity: VS1
Cut: Ex

Proportions
Depth: 61.6%
Table: 57%
Crown angle: 34
Crown Heigh: 14.5%
Pavilion angle: 41.2
Pavilion depth: 43.5%
Star length: 50%
lower half: 75%
Girdle: Thin to medium, Faceted, 3.0%
Culet: None

Polish: Ex
Symmetry: Ex

Fluorescence: Medium Blue

Clarity: Crystal, Feather

 

[LaylaR]

That is not a good angle combo. The HCA is pass fail, and anything over 2 is a fail. But it is not a selection tool. Only a rejection tool.

If you want the brightest, sparkliest diamond out there maximize cut. No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.
Stick to these proportions:

Table: 54-58
Crown: 34-35 (35.5 is OK with pavilion of 40.6)
Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9 (41 is ok with crown of 34)
Depth: 59.5 to 62.3


Does the recipient value high color and clarity?

 

[ringo865]

Or size?

 

[kLvru]

For the same price, I could get a 0.44 E VS1 which fall within the suggested criteria.

34.5 crown angle
40.6 pavilion angle
57.8 table
60.5 depth

Recipient have no knowledge on diamond, so I would say maybe size and sparkling ness (which is cut?).

 

[TreeScientist]

For the same price, I could get a 0.44 E VS1 which fall within the suggested criteria.

34.5 crown angle
40.6 pavilion angle
57.8 table
60.5 depth

Recipient have no knowledge on diamond, so I would say maybe size and sparkling ness (which is cut?).

Have you considered buying online? And dropping down in color? If you post your budget here, we could help you find something great from one of the online vendors. And I'm guessing we could get you in the .6 carat range for the same price as you'd be paying for this .44 carat.

 

[TreeScientist]

I don't know your budget, but I'm guessing it's around $2k for the stone based on the specs for the diamonds you posted (and what these would cost at local jewelers because they have higher mark-ups). For around 2k, you could have a .64 carat diamond that would perform excellently. You'll never see the color in a G, so this would be a great choice to maximize the two things that your girlfriend will actually be able to discern, which is "size and sparkly-ness":

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3684819

If you ask for the "PriceScope Discount" that should knock about $100 off the purchase price, bring the cost down to right around 2k.

 

[kLvru]

Have you considered buying online? And dropping down in color? If you post your budget here, we could help you find something great from one of the online vendors. And I'm guessing we could get you in the .6 carat range for the same price as you'd be paying for this .44 carat.

Not really, havent had any experience buying diamonds online

Well, basically I'm looking D/E/F, around 0.5 or so (dont mind if is larger). My budget is about 2,500 USD or less. Been trying to get the best with the budget

 

[TreeScientist]

Not really, havent had any experience buying diamonds online

Well, basically I'm looking D/E/F, around 0.5 or so (dont mind if is larger). My budget is about 2,500 USD or less. Been trying to get the best with the budget

Ah, see my post above then. I think you would be much happier with that diamond. So the $2500 is for the setting and diamond together? What type of setting are you looking for?

 

[kLvru]

Ah, see my post above then. I think you would be much happier with that diamond. So the $2500 is for the setting and diamond together? What type of setting are you looking for?

Thanks for the reply.

2500 just for diamond. I’m custom making a setting with Silver 925.

That does looks good. What do you think of this for a cheaper price

0.5 ct E VVS2
Depth 62.3%
Table 56%
Crown angle 35.0
Crown height 15.5%
Pavilion angle 40.8
Pavilion depth 43%
Star length 55%
Lower half 80%
Girdle medium to slightly thick 4.0%
Clarity cloud pinpoint

I wonder what sort of visual difference would that Be between D and E? Is D worth it?

 

[rockysalamander]

When you say "I'm custom making", do you mean you personally or you are having it made? In either case, sterling silver is NOT a good long-term setting metal for gemstones. It is much too soft for daily wear and to hold a valuable gemstone.

If you are personally making the setting or having it made, I would use a cast gold head in the design if you really want to use silver. You can solder gold to silver. Use a standard pre-cast gold head with a post passing through the shank and then solder it at that point. I'd stick with a solid colored metal (rose or yellow) to simplify the finishing. You'll have to be mindful of the differing finishing processes for the two metals. RG being more of a PITA than YG.

 

[farrahlyn]

Thanks for the reply.

2500 just for diamond. I’m custom making a setting with Silver 925.

That does looks good. What do you think of this for a cheaper price

0.5 ct E VVS2
Depth 62.3%
Table 56%
Crown angle 35.0
Crown height 15.5%
Pavilion angle 40.8
Pavilion depth 43%
Star length 55%
Lower half 80%
Girdle medium to slightly thick 4.0%
Clarity cloud pinpoint

I wonder what sort of visual difference would that Be between D and E? Is D worth it?

Is there a specific reason you going with Silver for the setting? it's a lot softer than gold or platinum, will scratch easily, may tarnish, more prone to breaking and losing the stone, etc etc etc.

Honestly, you're not going to be able to tell D, E or F from one another even side by side. they are all colorless so VERY white. The normal person isn't going to be able to glance at the stone and say, "hey, wow! THat's a D colored stone!" Especially in the size stone you are looking at, G and H are VERY safe and will still look very white. An I color is going to look white face up and youre only ging to see tint from the side. If you're putting it in a halo or a setting with an intricate basket, you're minimizing the color seen from the side so it's a great way to gain size and still have a white stone. (my stone is an H, .9ct and i see zero tint, even from the side)

some good reading before you decide what color you comfortable at:
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond-color
https://www.goodoldgold.com/colorless-diamonds
https://www.goodoldgold.com/near-colorless

 

[TreeScientist]

You have some great advice above. I would HIGHLY recommend against doing the setting in sterling silver. Way too soft to be a long-term setting for an expensive diamond. Go with 14K white gold if you want a cheaper white metal, as it will be much stronger and more secure. It's worth the extra $200-300 for the peace of mind. I'd hate to see your future wife lose her diamond because she knocked her ring against something and the diamond popped out of the prongs.

As for the color, no, no-one would ever be able to tell a difference between a D and an E, or a D and a G for that matter.

I'll offer a personal anecdote to help you decide: I am probably one of the most color-sensitive people in the world. I get paid a pretty high salary to discern minute differences in color within tree rings on a daily basis. When I went to look at diamonds, I could only begin to see a difference between a D and a G when in a setting. Keep in mind this was staring at them from the side pretty intensely for a few minutes. And it was still difficult to see any color in the G. These were also larger stones I was looking at (around 1 carat) so to the average person (aka someone who doesn't get paid to stare at colors all day), I highly doubt they would ever be able to see color in a G, or even an H for that matter.

I would recommend you go and look at diamonds for yourself. Ask to see a D and a G side by side in mounted settings. Look at them face-up and try to tell the difference.

So regarding the E you posted above, I would still recommend the G I posted above instead. You'll never see the difference in color, but you (or your girlfriend) WILL see the difference in size. A 5.55mm stone is going to look much different than a 5.15mm stone (which is the size I'm getting for the stone you posted when entered into Diamonddb). .4mm is actually a pretty huge difference all things considered, so I would try to maximize size by looking in the G-H range, as @farrahlyn suggested above.

 

[farrahlyn]

Thought i'd show you the size difference you can get and how it will look visually. I totally get if you want to go with a colorless, VVS clarity stone and i do get that sometimes there are cultural reasons to go with the highest color and clarity. But high color and clarity doesn't always mean it will be the best and most sparkly stone, cut will determine much of that.

I"d jump on this stone like white on rice. seriously, LOVE it: (.71ct H SI1)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4508574

.66ct G VS2
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4327191

.64 F VVS2
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4361212

.65 F VS2
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4504295

size difference, all on a size 6 finger with a 2mm wide band.

this is the .71 stone compered to a .5ct stone. the size difference is visible


THis is the .66ct stone above with a .5ct stone. again, size difference is visible.

 

[TreeScientist]

Thought i'd show you the size difference you can get and how it will look visually. I totally get if you want to go with a colorless, VVS clarity stone and i do get that sometimes there are cultural reasons to go with the highest color and clarity. But high color and clarity doesn't always mean it will be the best and most sparkly stone, cut will determine much of that.

I"d jump on this stone like white on rice. seriously, LOVE it: (.71ct H SI1)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4508574

.66ct G VS2
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4327191

.64 F VVS2
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4361212

.65 F VS2
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4504295

size difference, all on a size 6 finger with a 2mm wide band.

this is the .71 stone compered to a .5ct stone. the size difference is visible


THis is the .66ct stone above with a .5ct stone. again, size difference is visible.

Good advice here. But I would still recommend the .64 G VS1 I posted above, as it will be cheaper too (around 2K after the PriceScope discount). The OP can take the extra $500 and apply it towards a White Gold Setting, which he DEFINITELY should do if he's paying 2K for a diamond. Please please PLEASE don't set it in silver, especially if going in a setting with prongs (a sterling bezel may be OK, but White Gold is still preferable).

 

[CareBear]

D VS1 is a bit overkill. Unless your fiance absolutely has to have a D/E/F, you won't see any color in a G, and a lot of folks can't see the color in an H. I think most of us here on PS will suggest that you go 'lower' and bigger!

 

[farrahlyn]

Good advice here. But I would still recommend the .64 G VS1 I posted above, as it will be cheaper too (around 2K after the PriceScope discount). The OP can take the extra $500 and apply it towards a White Gold Setting, which he DEFINITELY should do if he's paying 2K for a diamond. Please please PLEASE don't set it in silver, especially if going in a setting with prongs (a sterling bezel may be OK, but White Gold is still preferable).

Good point especially if OP is going with Silver for monetary reasons. You can even get a nice PLATINUM solitaire from JA for $630

 

[Luminous1]

If you think she is wanting to maximize size and sparkliness, I would re-vamp your search. A D color diamond is not going to be the first thing anyone notices, including her. I would totally drop in color and clarity. I would totally jump on that .71 H SI posted above. She will notice that cut and size most. I just wouldn't halo it with D color melee.

 

[TreeScientist]

Good point especially if OP is going with Silver for monetary reasons. You can even get a nice PLATINUM solitaire from JA for $630

True. Just as an example, this is a nice solitaire for $330 in White Gold (or $630 in Platinum):
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...mfort-fit-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7086

Or you could spend a little more and get this one, which is one of my favorite of the prong-style solitaires from James Allen ($550 in White Gold):
https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...gold-crown-diamond-engagement-ring-item-53314

I think the crown-style setting above looks particularly nice with diamonds under 1 carat, as the narrowing of the shank at the top makes the diamond appear larger.

 

[kLvru]

Hi Guys,

Thank you all for the reply, much appreciated.

As much as I want to, unfortunately I have no idea in crafting a ring. An overseas store is doing it for me, and after seeing the suggestions here, I've decided to change to white gold. The initial reason for not having gold was because the custom ring is made overseas and I'm not sure if I could trust it to pay additional for white gold (do note that, part of the ring will be painted over with enamel due to design, don't ask me why, it needs to be )

With that in mind, I'm deciding to reduce the budget a bit (although I'm very very tempted by the 0.6 CT given by TreeScientist ).

I have the following option (all within ideal cut range given by LaylaR, less than 2 in HCA and 100% score in enchantedcut score).

Prices are before discount

a) 0.5 F VS2 (Feather) - 1680 $
b) 0.5 E VS2 (Crystal, Cloud, Feather) - 1740$
c) 0.5 E VS1 (Crystal, Needle, Feather, Indented Natural) - 1800$ (I don't like this despite being VS1)
d) 0.5 E VVS2 (Cloud, Pinpoint) - 1900$ (with this, I might as well top up to 0.6 CT)
e) 0.62 E VS2 (Cloud, Crystal) - 2150$

I'm inclined on option B. But these are GIA DD graded, so no plotting

 

[SimoneDi]

@kLvru the folks here gave you such awesome advice, why aren’t you following it?

This stone is absolutely gorgeous! https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4508574

JA has an even budget friendlier solitaire: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/e...nife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7115

You can ask JA for their $100 discount as well.

You don’t need to go so high or color and clarity especially in a less than carat stone, unless your SO specifically desires that.

We cannot advice you on your last choices because you have not posted the reports and we have no pics/videos.

 

[kLvru]

@kLvru the folks here gave you such awesome advice, why aren’t you following it?

This stone is absolutely gorgeous! https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4508574

JA has an even budget friendlier solitaire: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/e...nife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7115

You can ask JA for their $100 discount as well.

You don’t need to go so high or color and clarity especially in a less than carat stone, unless your SO specifically desires that.

We cannot advice you on your last choices because you have not posted the reports and we have no pics/videos.

Yes, I am indeed following the advises given by the folks here, which is why I’m changing my ring to white gold.

I’m unable to buy solitaire rings and such because I need to have a specific design for the ring (there’s no 2 ways around this). It needs to be custom made.

As for diamond, as much as I would like to buy online, but I’m not from the states. And import duties will be an issue in where I reside. The only way is based on the wholesaler here who can purchase online but not all. Which is why my choices are limited, unfortunately

Attached the GIA report for optIon A, B and C.
I’ve tried searching the online stores, but there’s no pictures for the specific GIA reported stones. On whiteflash or enchanted.

As for color, yes it has been specified a minimum of F.

I’ve also revised the budget to accommodate white gold for the ring as well. So 1700 region would be wonderful. If there’s any suggestions within this, I’m more than happy to ask if I can ask my friend to get it.

PS the reason for the VVS2 option there is solely for the peace of mind because there’s no pictures or idealscope image or plotting for the VS2. I would take the VS2 option in a heartbeat if the feather inclusion is not near the girdle (but can’t tell for sure now)

 

[TreeScientist]

OK, now I'm beginning to understand your situation better. So the color is a cultural thing? In that case, I understand why you must have a "colorless" stone. There's many Asian cultures which prioritize color above all else (even if it doesn't matter) so you should've specified that at the beginning.

When you say "I can ask my friend to get it" do you mean you have a friend in the U.S. who you could ship the stone to and they could bring it to you? That may be the best option, and many people who live overseas do exactly that.

Here's another option for you to consider in the D-F color range from Blue Nile. A little over budget at $1900, but get's you a .07 carat increase over the stones you're considering. And, most importantly, it shows excellent internal symmetry in the video. Also, I specifically chose a diamond without fluorescence, as I know that this is also looked down upon in some cultures:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

I would check and see if you could purchase from Blue Nile directly (if your friend isn't able to get it for you). Blue Nile is pretty good with shipping overseas, and ships to something like 40 countries. They're familiar with handling customs and import duties, so check with them.

Of the 5 options you posted, I like option a (the F VS2 with the feather) the best just based on the GIA report alone, but it's almost impossible to choose a diamond without even a picture or video. As you said yourself, you have no clue where that feather is. It could be running through the girdle, or it could be directly across the table and causing an ugly line in the diamond's profile. Also, keep in mind that the external angles alone do not determine whether a diamond will perform well. The internal symmetry is also vitally important, which is why seeing a picture/video (and ideally an IdealScope image) is essential before making a purchase. As you can see among all of the recommendations that myself and the other posters have made, they all have very nice "arrows" in the center of the diamond (the 8 dark triangles under the table). This is indicative of a well cut stone with excellent symmetry. Keep in mind that, just because a diamond fits into the external parameters recommended above and has an HCA score below 2 DOES NOT mean that the diamond will perform well, as it could have crappy internal symmetry. This is why we say that the HCA is an exclusion tool, NOT a selection tool. Diamonds with an HCA above 2 should be excluded (in most cases) while diamonds with HCA scores below 2 are worthy of further consideration. So again, without pictures/videos (and an IdealScope image) it impossible to determine whether a diamond would perform well in terms of light return.

TLDR: If the vendor you're buying from cannot at the very least provide a picture/video of the diamond prior to purchase, don't buy it.

 

[kLvru]

OK, now I'm beginning to understand your situation better. So the color is a cultural thing? In that case, I understand why you must have a "colorless" stone. There's many Asian cultures which prioritize color above all else (even if it doesn't matter) so you should've specified that at the beginning.

When you say "I can ask my friend to get it" do you mean you have a friend in the U.S. who you could ship the stone to and they could bring it to you? That may be the best option, and many people who live overseas do exactly that.

Here's another option for you to consider in the D-F color range from Blue Nile. A little over budget at $1900, but get's you a .07 carat increase over the stones you're considering. And, most importantly, it shows excellent internal symmetry in the video. Also, I specifically chose a diamond without fluorescence, as I know that this is also looked down upon in some cultures:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

I would check and see if you could purchase from Blue Nile directly (if your friend isn't able to get it for you). Blue Nile is pretty good with shipping overseas, and ships to something like 40 countries. They're familiar with handling customs and import duties, so check with them.

Of the 5 options you posted, I like option a (the F VS2 with the feather) the best just based on the GIA report alone, but it's almost impossible to choose a diamond without even a picture or video. As you said yourself, you have no clue where that feather is. It could be running through the girdle, or it could be directly across the table and causing an ugly line in the diamond's profile. Also, keep in mind that the external angles alone do not determine whether a diamond will perform well. The internal symmetry is also vitally important, which is why seeing a picture/video (and ideally an IdealScope image) is essential before making a purchase. As you can see among all of the recommendations that myself and the other posters have made, they all have very nice "arrows" in the center of the diamond (the 8 dark triangles under the table). This is indicative of a well cut stone with excellent symmetry. Keep in mind that, just because a diamond fits into the external parameters recommended above and has an HCA score below 2 DOES NOT mean that the diamond will perform well, as it could have crappy internal symmetry. This is why we say that the HCA is an exclusion tool, NOT a selection tool. Diamonds with an HCA above 2 should be excluded (in most cases) while diamonds with HCA scores below 2 are worthy of further consideration. So again, without pictures/videos (and an IdealScope image) it impossible to determine whether a diamond would perform well in terms of light return.

TLDR: If the vendor you're buying from cannot at the very least provide a picture/video of the diamond prior to purchase, don't buy it.

Thanks TreeScientist for all your efforts and recommendation, appreciate it!

The 0.57 from BlueNile does indeed looks very nice and am currently confirming the availability with them (fingers crossed!) but unfortunately they don't ship to where I'm from but it does ship to Singapore. So might get a friend to help (with a 7% tax).

Upon looking further (backup plan in case the one above is not available, knock on wood), for similar price I came across this as well:

This is same price as above (but with internal graining VVS2)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4291138

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3671332

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4435685

Which looks great and seems to have quite a good symmetry as well! What do you think?

P.S Fingers crossed they can confirm the availability soon.

 

[TreeScientist]

Good to hear you're checking with BlueNile about the .57 F VS1. The F VVS2 you posted also looks nice, but I would prefer the .57 from BlueNile for the better angles (40.6 PA works better with 35CA than 40.8 PA with 34CA, especially with the GIA rounding) and because I'm not a fan of internal graining. It can sometimes have weird effects on the way light is reflected within diamonds.

Keep us updated! Hope you'll be able to make it work with shipping to Singapore.

 

[WillyDiamond]

I'm dizzy.