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Buying a non-certified diamond

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runmikerun

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 14, 2003
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1
I recently started the search for a diamond, and was pointed, by a very good friend, to a gentleman that is a Diamond wholesaler, who typically sells to Jewelers. This guy has sold 6-7 rings to friends and aquaintances and everyone has been very very happy with the diamonds and the price.

My concern is that his diamonds do look great, however they are not GIA certified. The vital stats that I have are the carat weight and his word on the color, clarity etc. The sizes that I am looking at are 1.8-2.2 and he was able to show me 6 different stones in that range with varying color and a few with blemishes at 10x and a few without.

I guess my question is that I trust my friends and they trust this guy... but should I get the diamond looked at after purchase or before purchase or what?

Thanks a bunch!
 

diamondsman

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Messages
648
I wonder why they did not have certs?
It is very unusual nowadays not to have a certificate on larger stones! From my experience I know that if the stone doesnot have a cert,from either the g.i.a,a.g.s, e.g.l, h.r.d, i.g.i, (in that order)
than there is somthing that is questionable .
the above labs are reputable and give you the color and clarity that are acceptable throughout the world!
why don't you find out from that dealer what the color and clarity's are and then compare on the net for the same type of stones,Only with certs1 otherwise you can't copmare

good luck
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,390
There are many diamond dealers who will tell you the truth and you won't needlesly pay for a grading report. However, how in the world do you know you are being told the truth? This issue makes people flock to grading reports and those who offer them with the diamond. I think it is not rocket science to understand why this has occured.

While you can do it the old way, on faith, you can certainly do it the new way, with a reliable document.

You take risks everyday when you get out of bed. Do you needlessly take them? That is up to you.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
----------------
On 5/16/2003 8:43:47 AM runmikerun wrote:

My concern is that his diamonds do look great, however they are not GIA certified. The vital stats that I have are the carat weight and his word on the color, clarity etc. The sizes that I am looking at are 1.8-2.2 . . .

----------------

I would NEVER but a 1.8+ ct diamond from ANYONE without a reliable cert.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Before I found Price Scope, I considered buying an UnCerted diamond from my "trusted" jeweler of 10 years. She has a good "eye" for stones and I asked her to get some diamonds in for me. While I was waiting, I found PS and started to learn hard facts about diamonds. CUT, CUT, CUT was all I read in the forum. Every time I checked a post, someone was crunching numbers.

The diamonds came in at my jeweler. UnCerted of course. I went and looked. Since the diamonds had arrived a short time before I got to the shop, my jeweler hadn't even had a chance to "grade" them herself. I looked at them. Moved around the store and to the store front window. Learned on PS to check diamonds in all types of light. The jeweler pulled out Master stones and we graded the colors. I settled on one that she conservatively considered to be a G, SI2. It had lots of sparkle, color, and white light. Loaded with black carbon spots at the bottom, but 100% eye clean from the top. I remembered from PS to get diameter and depth measurements, came home and posted the info about my diamond on the forum.

The cut was too deep. I would be paying for weight no one could see and the diameter was small. The .81 carat diamond I was considering looked more like a .65 carat Ideal cut. The reason this diamond wasn't Certed was obvious. The folks here also told me that the price she was asking was too much. BTW,... That diamond came from The Diamond District in NYC. If you are in the US, your "wholesaler" might be getting his from NYC also. The sellers in the Diamond District aren't stupid. If a diamond can get a decent Cert, they'll submit it.

You can buy an UnCerted diamond for a fair price if you learn and use the info on PS to guide you. But you will also need some hard information to make an informed decision. Get physical measurements and ask for a Sarin Report. Once you have that info, assess the cut grade, crunch the HCA, and check Price Stats to compare with the PS vendors. Finally, make purchase contingent on a satisfactory evaluation by an INDEPENDENT appraiser. Not another jeweler who appraises or another diamond broker, an IDEPENDENT, free standing appraiser.

I wasn't that industrious. I used the price I'd been quoted by my jeweler as my budget. I bought a.766 carat A Cut Above, Hearts and Arrows, H, SI1 from White Flash set in a custom made bezel pendant for about the same price I would have paid at the jewelry store. Plus, my ACA has a larger diameter and visual appearance than most Maul store 1 carat diamonds.

Good Luck with your decision.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
jim34 what were the specs of the diamond you bought. You seem awfully keen to give out that/your number.
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
Here's a good compromise. Tell him you wanted certed or you won't buy it.

If the stone's grading matches what he said - you ask him to show you the cost of the grading, and then you pay for it.

If the stone does not grade the way he says, then you don't buy it or pay for the cert.

This is a good way to deal with uncertified purchases.

Buying and then going to find out what it is - INHO is very risky.

I get 10 emails a day from people who bought stones that weren't the grading represented by the seller. At this point, you have to hope that the seller will adjust the price or make a refund. Some will - some won't At that point you're alternative is to just accept the punch in the jaw, or you will have to look for legal alternatives. Hiring an attorney, and expert witness and go to trial is very expensive.

It's your money - and the choice is yours. For the $ 200.00 or so that it would cost to get a GIA report, it appears to me that taking unecessary risk is not the sensible and prudent way to purchase the stone.

Rockdoc
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Interesting Jim34.

You only registered today. Members of this forum do not know anything about your level of knowledge. Yet you are posting in many threads to contact an unknown vendor.


New members and visitors to Price Scope should use caution regarding this endorsement.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
This insistence of GIA grading in a relatively new phenom. Many diamonds have been bought & were exactly as represented with no cert. In fact, our original diamond was graded better when I had it appraised a few years later.

That said, your jeweler should have no problem sending a stone to an independent appraiser for reveiw prior to purchase. I believe someone on this forum did this very thing. Provided you are willing to purchase the stone if all checks out, then I see no reason why the jeweler wouldn't oblige.

I simply can not understand the "outrage" some feel about uncerted stones. Don't jewelers buy "packages"? Are all those 3/4 c G/VS stones graded by GIA?
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Are you talking about high grade stones (like D/VS or G/VS) or more usual grades (like K/SI 2 or I/P 1)?? If the specs aren't super high, then it's common to find uncerted stones. If it isn't like that, and the stones' specs are closer to case A, I really second Rock Doc's opinion: ask your dealer to send the stone to the GIA or AGS... AGS is MUCH faster (and more accurate in my opinion
).
 
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