Buying A CUT ABOVE diamond for an engagement ring...but need help!

[Malzer]

Hi,

I’m new to diamonds but was fortunate to find PriceScope. I’m hoping to get some feedback on the following list of assumptions I am making during my search for a diamond that will be used for an engagement ring. Thanks in advance for any and all replies.

Please note that my goal is to maximize carat weight and minimize cost but not sacrifice the diamonds ability to present well during everyday life. This is not an investment diamond. And therefore, I am willing to make some compromises when it comes to clarity and color as detailed in my list of assumptions below.

My goal is to hopefully find a diamond that is stunning to the naked eye in everyday settings.

My Assumptions:

• *Cut is the most important of the four (4) “C’s”
• *Reviewing light performance (e.g. Ideal Scope, ASET, and Hearts and Arrows images) is a reliable way to confirm the quality of the Cut.
• *“Eye Clean” is good enough for clarity grade. The difference between VS2 and SI1 is not apparent to the naked eye.
• *Color Grade “J” will still look good for a round brilliant diamond mounted on a solitaire platinum or white gold ring.

Based on these criteria, I am looking at the following “A CUT ABOVE” diamonds from WhiteFlash (see links below). Any feedback on these options (including comments on the ideal, ASET, and H&A images) would be greatly appreciated. I have also highlighted the one diamond that is within my current budget. Any specific feedback on this diamond (AGS-104109403001) is greatly appreciate.

Comparison of 5 Diamonds:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare/?idnos=4187475,4113560,4104633,4104639,4039667

Diamond in my Budget:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4187475.htm


Thanks again for any and all replies.

 

[whitewave]

They are all beautiful and great choices. I supposed I’d say choose the largest for the price you want to spend.

 

[Malzer]

Thanks for the reply. Any thoughts on the "J" color grade? I read that "J" is okay for round diamonds on white rings. Apparently round shape diamonds hide color better than other shapes? Color grade adds a lot to the price. But I am still hoping a "J" color will look white to the naked eye...

 

[whitewave]

Thanks for the reply. Any thoughts on the "J" color grade? I read that "J" is okay for round diamonds on white rings. Apparently round shape diamonds hide color better than other shapes? Color grade adds a lot to the price. But I am still hoping a "J" color will look white to the naked eye...

I have a super ideal I and it’s white from the top but I can see tint from the sides. You are looking at around 2 carats so maybe the I then? You should call tomorrow and ask about these things... like can you see tint more in a 2 carat.

@diamondseeker2006

 

[kenny]

Thanks for the reply. Any thoughts on the "J" color grade? I read that "J" is okay for round diamonds on white rings. Apparently round shape diamonds hide color better than other shapes? Color grade adds a lot to the price. But I am still hoping a "J" color will look white to the naked eye...

Well cut diamonds do hide body color better because they return more light out the top, but only in a top-down view.
They are designed to do their magic when viewed from the top - their cut is graded when only looking into the top.
Diamonds show their body color most when viewed from the side, which incidentally is how we usually see our diamonds on our fingers.
Tellingly, labs grade the color of white diamonds (D-Z) looking at a side view, not a top view.

Thoughts on a J?
Diamond color grade is 100% personal preference.
Some simply MUST have a D E or F, others perceive a "just-right" value in G H I, others not only love the larger carat size they get as they go further down the alphabet, but some prefer a warmer diamond.
Again, it's 100% personal preference; no right or wrong.
If you were buying this diamond for me, then I'd tell you my preference.

Develop your color preference.
Go out and see diamonds of many color grades for yourself, and get them away from those jewelry store lights.
Stand by the window with those lights behind you so the diamond is in the shadow your body casts from those lights.
Look at top view AND side view, preferably with a D E or F next to a J, next a G H or I next to the J.
But if in the USA, please look only at diamonds graded by GIA or AGS.
Some other labs have much looser standards for grading color and clarity.
Those seem cheaper for the same color grade, but a J from a lab like EGL USA might get a color grade several grades worse if sent to GIA or AGS.

BTW, I have a Whiteflash ACA round, and the cut and light performance is spectacular.
Also WF has excellent customer service.

Take your time and learn lots and lots to defend yourself; it's a jungle out there.

 

[Gussie]

WF ACA J SI1, it is white enough for me but color is always personal.

 

[coda72]

To be on the safe side, you might want to get an I color stone, but since you’re buying from WF, you can upgrade at any time to a higher color stone if J shows too much tint.

I had a J stone for 3 years, and to be honest, although it was a beautiful stone, the color always bothered me. I upgraded to an I stone that I just received today, and honestly I can’t believe the color difference. I didn’t think the I would be so much whiter, but it is.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Welcome @Malzer

Some people are color sensitive and do not like any tint in their diamonds; others see tint and aren’t bothered by it and/or prefer it. I’m one of those who actually prefers a little bit of ‘warmth’ in a diamond because - to my eyes - it adds dimension and ‘life’. So personally - I think that ‘J’ is BEAUTIFUL and the inclusions are on the perimeter vs under the table (where they’d be easier to see). If you’re seriously considering that ’J’, I’d suggest you put it on hold ASAP; it’s not uncommon for people to snag diamonds others’ post about/are considering on here if they’re not on hold.

The only question/concern I’d have about it (and given this is in WF’s ACA line, it’s probably a non-issue) is do the clouds create any haze or impact the overall performance at all. My previous WF K VS1 had a couple tiny clouds that I could only spot with a loupe, and did not impact performance, so it’s probably fine, but still worth asking to confirm.

Also, as noted by others - be sure the intended recipient is okay with any ‘tint’ or a non-‘icy’ white diamond; it’s entirely personal preference, and what I or someone else likes/prefers has zero bearing on the recipient of your diamond.

For reference, here is my current diamond - a WF ACA K VS2 (same as my avatar in motion):




I don’t have any My WF Sales Associate advised that this ’K’ was a ‘high K’, meaning that it was closer to a ’J’ (though still lab-graded a K). While I could see some tint from the side in my previous WF-ES ‘K’, I really have to strain to see side-tint in this one (keep in mind, that picture is blown up considerably from what you normally view a diamond). And it’s important to note that as you go ‘down’ the color scale, the range of tint that particular grade comprises widens to a degree. So I think it’s worth asking your Sales Associate where that particular ‘J’ falls ... but it looks pretty darn bright in the images. Another factor that may weigh in on your color choice is the type of setting ... if it’s open from the side, then any tint may be visible; if it’s a more closed setting (e.g., a bezel or has an ornate gallery), then side-visible tint isn’t as visible.

Lastly, I’m not sure why you’re looking at diamonds in the $17-18K range if they’re not in budget, but if you are maybe considering increasing your budget, open to a non-ACA branded diamond while getting guaranteed quality, and don’t want to risk the color being ‘ill-received’, I’d consider adding this WF Expert Selection diamond and this WF Premium Select diamond to your list. They both have high clarity/eye clean, higher/safer color at G (ES) & I (PS), and while the ES is just shy of $18K, the PS appears in-line with your current budget/range. These diamonds would also qualify for WF’s upgrade program. I’m not even sure why the ES isn’t in the ACA line to be honest (but WF will tell you if you ask). These two WF diamond ‘lines’ offer a tremendous value for those who want a great performing & well-cut diamond, but don’t ‘demand’ super-ideal cut/branding. I loved my previous ES and felt it was a knock-out, and would have happily gotten another one if there was one available in my goal-specs when upgraded recently.

Hope this was helpful as you consider your options!

 

[TODiamonds]

Edit:

Your budget is $11k and you're looking at $18-19k stones? I'm confused...


Original Post:

Color is a very subjective thing.

I will say that once you get past H, it can be a slippery slope and color can vary quite a bit once you're in the I-J range.

Based on the size you're looking at I'd probably go as low as I, preferably H to be safe, but that's just me. If I were buying and had to choose between those, I'd take the H stone easily here.

If you like the warmth of the J and you're going for size, then it boils down to the 2+ ct stones. Between those I'd take the 2.365 ct, the other one looks scuffed up with many inclusions on the table. It also looks yellower to me from the face-up view. You should ask for side-view shots to confirm.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, my e-ring has an I color stone, and while it looks very white in natural outdoor lighting and certain other environments, it can look tinted in others...especially in my car with tinted windows. If I could transform it to G-H, I would. But I love it most of the time! I personally couldn't go lower than I color in a modern round. They are just brighter white as you go higher in color. But as others have said, color is very personal.

I really love this stone linked below. The cut is great, and it's one I'd buy. Ask them to put it beside the J and tell you if they can see a color difference and perhaps take photos. But it should appear whiter.

Diamond | 1.61 ct I VS2 Premium Select Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4180552

This fabulous 1.61 carat Round Excellent cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of I.It is an excellent choice for diamond engagement rings or other fine diamond jewelry. | 4180552

www.whiteflash.com

 

[TODiamonds]

Well, my e-ring has an I color stone, and while it looks very white in natural outdoor lighting and certain other environments, it can look tinted in others...especially in my car with tinted windows. If I could transform it to G-H, I would. But I love it most of the time! I personally couldn't go lower than I color in a modern round. They are just brighter white as you go higher in color. But as others have said, color is very personal.

I really love this stone linked below. The cut is great, and it's one I'd buy. Ask them to put it beside the J and tell you if they can see a color difference and perhaps take photos. But it should appear whiter.

Diamond | 1.61 ct I VS2 Premium Select Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4180552

This fabulous 1.61 carat Round Excellent cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of I.It is an excellent choice for diamond engagement rings or other fine diamond jewelry. | 4180552

www.whiteflash.com

Very candid (and helpful) advice here. Not many people around here would openly admit they would transform their stone to something else if they could.

Despite my feedback above, I also bought an "I" for my fiance's e-ring. I actually love it and can't notice the tint, even from the sideview (it's mounted high on a tacori cathedral setting). Guess I lucked out with a strong I, because I've seen much worse out there...

 

[headlight]

I would suggest you consider H color.

 

[Sunstorm]

I can tell you my objective opinion: an I is generally where I think the cut off of still white is. A great value. A J will be a chameleon; awesome stones and even greater value but you will see tint at certain angles and lighting conditions. A super ideal does help that and fluorescence can too. An H is definitely the safest choice but not necessarily what will work for you.

I can tell you that for me personally a J is where I draw the line mostly but I love warmth, it also looks great on my skin because I have slightly olive-yellow-orange hues. This is subjective/personalized view.

Third as it has been stated tint varies a lot within the same grade, I have seen GIA K before that looked almost like a fancy light yellow and O/P that was very white in many lights. I cannot explain how this can happen but it can.

If I were you I would put what you like on hold, talk to a sales rep and have them offer other suggestions too. Make sure the options are within your budget though! It is no point looking at Ferraris if you can adore a Toyota. Not that a Toyota is any lesser, only different. Just saying. So you can ask them about a white J and/or go down in clarity to eyeclean SI and/or go down in size a bit.

Think about the following though,see if you can somehow involve her in the selection process even if not openly. This would help you a lot in seeing her preferences regarding size, color, setting styles, metal color. You can let’s say go on a shopping trip to a mall for sweaters or whatever and casually stop at a jewelry store like wow look that is gorgeous no and go in for fun to try some stuff to get an idea.

This way you can find out what she likes and looks good on her. I love rose gold for example but it looks awful on me, I am not big on yellow gold but it looks amazing on me, due to my warmer tone it just glows on me. White looks good on everyone but she may have a different preference. Some ladies prefer an understated setting, some absolutely want an elaborate pave setting. I have had to change the stone and setting several times when the man did not ask the opinion of the lady and she had a very strong opinion.

Remember that marriage is about partnership and teamwork, this is the best time to start working on that.

 

[sledge]

Lastly, I’m not sure why you’re looking at diamonds in the $17-18K range if they’re not in budget...

I’d consider adding this WF Expert Selection diamond and this WF Premium Select diamond to your list. I’m not even sure why the ES isn’t in the ACA line to be honest (but WF will tell you if you ask).

You had a long post, so I clipped a bunch of it. Not meaning to change your context, but wanted to preface my comments for transparency.

I'm also confused why the budget is $12k or so but most the stones are $17-18k. Can you clarify OP?

To me, it appears the 1.712 G missed the ACA mark because of depth. WF limits depth from 59.5-62 for the ACA line. This stone falls just shy of that range at 62.3. Doesn't appear to be hurtful in the least, and a way to pocket a few dollars savings and not surrender any perks.

A CUT ABOVE® Diamonds Specifications and Qualifications

Uncover the diamond specifications and qualifications that make up the Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® diamonds. The most carefully crafted diamonds in the world.

www.whiteflash.com

Well, my e-ring has an I color stone, and while it looks very white in natural outdoor lighting and certain other environments, it can look tinted in others...especially in my car with tinted windows. If I could transform it to G-H, I would. But I love it most of the time! I personally couldn't go lower than I color in a modern round. They are just brighter white as you go higher in color. But as others have said, color is very personal.

Lots of people are echoing this and I hope it sticks....color is personal!

Also, you should know women are typically more color sensitive than women. You would be wise to learn her own preferences and tolerances for color before pulling the trigger.

My wife's stone is a BGD 0.867 H VS2. It's very white in many conditions, but there are times we both see tint. She is both more sensitive and tolerant of color than I am. When it comes time to upgrade I would like to bump the color for her.

Third as it has been stated tint varies a lot within the same grade, I have seen GIA K before that looked almost like a fancy light yellow and O/P that was very white in many lights. I cannot explain how this can happen but it can.

This came up in a thread where we were discussing fluorescence. I think it's a good interesting read and gives some additional insight to how GIA grades color.

https://www.gia.edu/doc/Coloring-Grading-D-to-Z-Diamonds-at-the-GIA-Laboratory.pdf

The first part gives the history and can be a bit dry. But it has good info.

By chance, did either the K or O/P stone have any fluor in it? Could it have been a contributing factor? They've changed methodology a few times and I'm wondering if one of the stones could have been graded in a different time/method period than the other stone.

Either way, not the point of this thread, but you may find it interesting.

Also, I think I asked this before, but I see you are in the trade. What vendor do you work for, or shop do you own?

 

[Sunstorm]

Hi @sledge. Nope, neither stone had fluor. This made it even more bizarre since obviously that can and does affect tint.

Ah I did not see you asking! Generally people can get an idea by checking our profiles but I do not work for anyone. I am independent, wholesale and private diamond dealer in my area and jewelry designer. I do work for local auction houses as a gemologist expert. I did not want to be rude and hope it is ok to answer this much.

I am here because this is my passion, obsession and plus really love the people here. If it was not such a great community perhaps I would be long gone.
Yikes now that was a threadjack!

 

[distracts]

As others have written - color is personal. I can easily see color differences, but I mostly do not mind them. A J is slightly tinted to my eyes, but I still think it looks white and I like the color. But I am the weird person who finds D/E/F too white to enjoy except as sidestones for colored gems.

 

[KKJohnson]

I am confused as well as to why you are doing a comparison of stone higher then your price point, is this flexible and that is why?

Based on your budget I think this is more suitable for comparison, I would ask WF to do a side by side for you so then you can see the size and color difference

Loose Diamonds for Sale: Discover Our Exceptional Range

Discover your perfect gem from our extensive collection of loose diamonds on sale. Buy loose diamonds that align seamlessly with your style and budget.

www.whiteflash.com

 

[kenny]

I am confused as well as to why you are doing a comparison of stone higher then your price point ...

People expecting help getting more than they can afford happens all the time on PS.
I've never been able to figure it out.

Clearly zillions of diamond shoppers, expecting what's not possible, is why those flakey labs that lie about color and clarity grades get away with it.
... "Oh Look! ... I got an F VS1 for the same price of a GIA H SI2."
Yeah right!

 

[the_mother_thing]

@sledge Thank you for checking that G/ES vs ACA specs to confirm why it missed the mark. I think I meant to go check that before hitting “post reply” and forgot to go back to it.

That Premium Select @diamondseeker2006 & I linked appears to have some painting or digging (I always get those two confused) but - from a quality/specs/value perspective - it really hits a potential sweet spot that I hope OP will consider, given what I think is his actual/target budget range.

 

[sledge]

@sledge Thank you for checking that G/ES vs ACA specs to confirm why it missed the mark. I think I meant to go check that before hitting “post reply” and forgot to go back to it.

That Premium Select @diamondseeker2006 & I linked appears to have some painting or digging (I always get those two confused) but - from a quality/specs/value perspective - it really hits a potential sweet spot that I hope OP will consider, given what I think is his actual/target budget range.

You're welcome. Glad I could help out.

Sorry, I didn't even look at the PS for why it missed. Agree about the girdle manipulation. From just before the 6 o'clock position to nearly the 9 o'clock position on the ASET. Also, there appears to be some minor variance in the hearts image that would probably exclude it from ACA. The depth is also 62.3. Lastly it has a GIA cert instead of AGS, which is likely why it moved to PS vs ES.

But as you already stated, all minor stuff. Best part is you get the perks of better color and great size for the price. Plus all the upgrade perks as if it were an ACA.

It appears to offer an excellent bang for the buck.

 

[Malzer]

Wow! The quality of these replies is incredible! This was my first post on PriceScope. I was not expecting to get this level of engagement from the community (pardon the pun). These replies are incredibly informative; especially considering I am basically new to diamonds. I am going through each reply individually and making myself detailed notes in an effort to further educate myself on this topic.

I could not be more appreciative to everyone who spent the time to add a comment offering me great insight.

One common comment that was raised was my decision to include one (1) diamond that was within my current budget and three (3) other diamonds that were clearly far outside of my current budget. This seemed to confuse some contributors so let me please clarify.

I am and have been with my life-partner for some time. Although we decided to be life-partners a long time ago, we never formally consummated the relationship via marriage. This engagement ring is intended to initiate that process. However, there is no sense of urgency for either of us…we literally have the rest of our lives…

Although I started my engagement ring savings fund some time ago, I’ve only just begun my research into diamonds. My originally timeframe was to formally propose sometime in the next couple years giving me time to further accrue more savings (which is why I included the three (3) options that aligned with where I expected my savings fund to be at time of proposal). However, for personal reasons I am considering making the propose much sooner than originally planned (hence the option within my current budget range).

I hope this helps explain my motivation for the options I included in the original post.

It is difficult for me to express how grateful I am for all the comments. What an amazing community you guys have fostered here. I will be sure to provide an update to the thread once I progress my decision.

 

[whitewave]

Ok so the ring is for her, not you? Your story is super sweet.

 

[distracts]

Although I started my engagement ring savings fund some time ago, I’ve only just begun my research into diamonds. My originally timeframe was to formally propose sometime in the next couple years giving me time to further accrue more savings (which is why I included the three (3) options that aligned with where I expected my savings fund to be at time of proposal). However, for personal reasons I am considering making the propose much sooner than originally planned (hence the option within my current budget range).

If you and she would be open to upgrading in the future, Whiteflash has a very generous upgrade policy so long as you are spending $1 more you can get another diamond. Most stores require you to spend twice as much as your initial purchase. So that way you could buy her an engagement ring now, with a simple setting, and in several years, for wedding or anniversary or just because, when you have saved up more money, upgrade to a larger diamond and get the forever setting (although of course she might also just be a simple solitaire kind of person). Many people on this forum who have large diamonds have done it that way - started smaller at a store with a good upgrade policy, and slowly upgraded as funds allowed.

Also I think your story is lovely and the effort you are putting into this is wonderful.