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Gale

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2004
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My jeweller''s setter took a huge chip out of the table of one of my Richard Homer amethysts. I am so very disappointed. I guess i am going to have one really nice pendant instead of two really nice earrings though!

On the up side, my jeweller is being very accommodating, and I don''t think he should have to be this nice to me.
 
I''m sorry to hear that what a shame.
 
Date: 4/21/2005 3:44:48 PM
Author:Gale
My jeweller''s setter took a huge chip out of the table of one of my Richard Homer amethysts. I am so very disappointed. I guess i am going to have one really nice pendant instead of two really nice earrings though!

On the up side, my jeweller is being very accommodating, and I don''t think he should have to be this nice to me.
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HI:

OH! Dear!
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Did he not offer to get another stone to replace the chipped one? Although disappointed, you seem "OK"--am I understanding you correctly?

cheers--Sharon
 
Oh, Gale....i''m so sorry to hear this.

This is the nightmare we all fear happening. Pooh!

I''m glad your jeweler is being accomodating, hope he continues to be. Have you inquired to RH if there is any way to get a replacement stone?

This is such a pity...
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widget
 
Gale,
Got a picture ? If the chip is limited to the table and the crown is tall enough, that stone may be able to be recut with little effect on it''s look.


Michael E.
 
Thanks for the tea and sympathy guys! He has offered to replace the stone, although in my opinion, he does not have to. I assumed I was going to be taking the risk if anything happened, since I did not purchase the stones through him. He''s a great guy for doing this, and I will continue working with him.

Thanks for the hint Michael. Maybe that stone CAN be recut.
 
Gale,

Oh yes he does have to replace the stone! Whether or not he has liablity insurance is not the issue. His benchy made a mistake and he has to pay for it. It''s the cost of doing business, a mistake was made and he/she should make it all better.








"Gold there is, and rubies in abundance, but lips that speak knowledge are a rare jewel."
 
Karen,
Your opinion about replacing the stone brings up a good point about making some agreement about the responsibility for stone replacement BEFORE any work is done. There are some things that I just won''t touch anymore unless the customer is going to take responsibility for potential problems. Setting some emeralds or worse, apatite which is like setting a potato chip, come to mind. Diamonds and sapphires are generally bulletproof, but some softer or more included stones carry some risks that need to be discussed beforehand. No jeweler in their right mind would carry all of the risk associated with a very expensive stone that has the potential for being chipped or broken during setting, if they didn''t sell it. If you get $50 for setting a stone worth thousands, then there is no way that the risk of damaging it can be covered as a "cost of doing business". Make sure to discuss these things with your jeweler prior to any work so that no one makes assumptions about who will bear the cost of replacement if things don''t work out.
 
Maybe cost of doing business was a poor phrase to use. How about ''good will''. Any jeweler knows that if a client has a bad experience with them, accidental or not, that they will 1) not return and 2) tell everyone they know about what happened. No jewelery professional should take on a job that they cannot anticipate the outcome of. I find it hard to believe that an amethyst was that difficult to set properly without mishap. We could quibble all day over how big it was, the cut, whether the bench jeweler was having a bad day or just flat not paying attention. The fact remains, it happened and it is easily made right again. Blaming accidents on your employees is one way of wiggling out of liability and another common practice is throwing your hands up in the air and stating "S**t happens!"

I still contend that the jeweler''s offer to replace the stone is valid, right, whatever you want to call it. The jeweler shoudl pay for the replacement stone. Period. That he made the offer is the mark of good businessman. In his effort to make right what went wrong under his watch, he deserves another chance.





"Gold there is, and rubies in abundance, but lips that speak knowledge are a rare jewel."
 
This is turning into a very interesting and useful topic.

Think we all know, or certainly have recently learned, that it is important to to have an understanding with a jeweler PRIOR to leaving a valuable gemstone with him.

But I believe that it is the JEWELER'S responsibility to bring the subject up. That if he accepts a job without saying anything, then he is tacitly accepting responsibility and liability.

I ran into a problem around this once. A few years ago I had a gemstone mounted by a local jeweler. He happily accepted the job with no mention of liability. I later went back to the same jeweler to make some adjustments on the same ring. In between visits, I'd seen a conversation similar to this one on another forum. On the second visit, I brought up the liability issue in case the stone was damaged, and he VERY nervously said "oh, no, I couldn't take that responsiblity! You must have this work done at your own risk!"

Needless to say, I never went to that jeweler again. But this experience DOES make me wonder: If I the consumer bring up this issue first....will I EVER find a jeweler who will do the work for me? (The gemstone mentioned above was a rather expensive sapphire).

Steve? Michael? Karen? Any comments??

widget
 
Widget,
With an experienced bench jeweler there are some stones that you just don''t think about as being a problem. This is because they are strong, tough and the chances of damaging them is nearly zero. Diamonds, sapphires and many other gems fall into this category. The stones that p[ose a significant risk are stones like tanzanite and emeralds that may be fracture filled or are highly included. Even the quartz stones like amethyst and citrine are a bit chippy. Generally a jeweler won''t say anything if the stone''s replacement cost is low or the stone is very tough and they have a very high confidence in the outcome being positive. The burden for bringing this up IS completely on the shoulders of the jeweler. If they say nothing, then they are assuming the risk. This is just my opinion, but to do this any other way just leaves a wide door for problems later on, (including legal entanglements that everyone is better off avoiding). On the other hand, if you have a piece that means something to you and you are concerned about it, well, it just makes sense to inquire about the chances of a problem and to arrange the outcome beforehand, if a problem does come up. I think that this is one of those areas where you''re better safe than sorry and making an assumption could lead to unnecessary problems later.
The difficulty of finding someone who will do things that are risky or shouldn''t be done is real and that''s why you should enter any project with an open mind to any possibilities that would help to limit the risk of damage. For instance, setting a stone that is prone to chipping, into a heavy bezel that requires a powered hammer or lots of pressure to press the bezel down on the stone is extremely risky. If you are open to setting the stone from the back side or using a thinner bezel that needs less force to close, then you have eliminated your risk through a more appropriate design. If you find someone who will work with you and is honest about the risks and who will shoulder them, then you are way ahead and you should keep that person in your back pocket !
 
Interesting!

The other interesting thing this raises is the loss of a gem or piece of jewellery. It does happen and whether it''s caused by theft or simply geting lost in transit, it can be very upseting to the owner. With the best intentions in the world, some things just cant be replaced. This also needs to be discussed with whoever you leave the valuable with. Quite often insurance will be mentioned as the remedy to any unforseen event, but without a recent valuation certificate it may be hard to get the true worth of the item out of an insurance company.
With precious gems we ship world wide on a daily basis, if I dont specifically recommend the buyer pay for extra insurance, I am prepared to replace the item to the best of our ability out of my back pocket. If I recommend the buyer pays for insurance and they choose not to, then I guess they must bear some of the risk although depending on the circumstances we would probably try to come to some arrangement in the interests of good will. Luckily we have never had to try and claim on our insurance for a lost parcel - hope we never have to because I suspect the insurance company are not interested in good will for their customers and would try to weasel out of paying anything any way they can.

Cheers Andrew Lane
www.aussiesapphire.com.au
 
Thanks, everybody! "Read the small print on the repair ticket" now there''s some sensible advice!! I''ve never been good at that, but I will be from now on!
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Gale: I''m sorry we got sort of sidetracked, here...do let us know how you resolve this: Re cut the stone? Get a replacement? Have a pendant or ring made instead?

And or course, we''ll need pictures!
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widget
 
Date: 4/22/2005 2:54:45 PM
Author: widget

If I, the consumer bring up this issue first....will I EVER find a jeweler who will do the work for me?

(The gemstone mentioned above was a rather expensive sapphire).
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With the kind of baubles you are talking about... it should be rather hard. Can you imagine breaking one of THESE on the bench (shudder) ?

Any reasonable jeweler might say the same as that one (being sincere) or promiss the risk is tiny.
 
Steve,

Steve,

Sorry, I don''t use emoticons. "Depending on the circumstances..."?! Oh, please! Gale needs a replacement stone regardless of the eclipse, bad hair, bezel, hammer. What circumstances would you NOT replace something you broke that you were paid to set and were not smart enough to refuse based on your experience? Didn''t read the ticket? Didn''t know it was a potato chip? Didn''t listen to your customer? Didn''t care because the gem was inexpensive? None of the above?

Waffling on this subject makes my teeth itch. And it sure has turned up who I will and will not entrust my clients to in the event of their needing a bench jeweler.










"Gold there is, and rubies in abundance, but lips that speak knowledge are a rare jewel."
 
Karen,
I''m not sure why your teeth are itching, but I don''t see anyone here waffling. If the gem is cheap, then I don''t care about the cost of replacing it. That doesn''t mean that I''m not careful in setting it. I don''t want to waste my time and and wait around for a replacement. It means that it''s not worth going through a big speech with the client about who''ll bear the responsibilty if it gets broken and perhaps making them feel that I won''t do a good job. If it''s a potato chip and it''s expensive, then I won''t even try setting it, because I know that it will be a problem. Why would that bother you ? Anyone here would have replaced Gales stone if they had broken it, that''s not the point. Your comment about not listening to the customer IS the point. Problems can and do happen. Communicating the level of risk and who will bear that risk, beforehand is the whole point that is being made here. I would think that you would want to refer your clients to someone who will communicate those risks and discuss it beforehand, rather than taking any work that comes their way. Part of this discussion is an explanation of why some jewelers do not communicate those risks and then try to avoid responsibility. No one is advocating acting in that way, in fact just the opposite. If you could explain further where you think that there is waffling going on or better yet, how you feel the subject of risk should be addressed differently, I would love to hear it.
 
Wow! What a change in topic. And all I wanted was a shoulder to briefly whine on!

Well, there was no specific agreement between the jeweller and me. However, I honestly believe the broken stone is MY responsibility. That''s what I thought going into the deal, and that dictates my response and attitude towards this incident. I really believe that he does not bear responsibility for something he did not sell me, and made that clear when he told me about the mishap. Accidents happen, and this is an unfortunate one.

My jeweller and I have a fabulous business relationship. There are times when things work out better for me than for him. This just represents a little bit of give from me this time. There''s no point in being upset about it, it''s only a stone afterall. It''s difficult around here to find someone that''s willing to work with stones that aren''t sold in house. Not to mention, his benchman is an artist, and he''s also terribly convenient as well. And, to top it all off, his prices are so very reasonable for all the work I have him do.

Richard has agreed to cut me a new set of amethysts. Since he will be shipping me a sapphire in the near future in any event, I will just tack that on to the ticket. At the moment, I am contemplating size and shape. There''s no real hurry for these to be finished in any event, as I am going to save the final product to wear on our wedding day. Which seems, at the moment, far off in the future.

The broken stone will be sent back to Richard to do with as he pleases, and I will have a pendant as well as an eventual pair of earrings.
 
Date: 4/23/2005 6:30:36 PM
Author: Gale
Wow! What a change in topic. And all I wanted was a shoulder to briefly whine on!

Well, there was no specific agreement between the jeweller and me. However, I honestly believe the broken stone is MY responsibility. That''s what I thought going into the deal, and that dictates my response and attitude towards this incident. I really believe that he does not bear responsibility for something he did not sell me, and made that clear when he told me about the mishap. Accidents happen, and this is an unfortunate one.

My jeweller and I have a fabulous business relationship. There are times when things work out better for me than for him. This just represents a little bit of give from me this time. There''s no point in being upset about it, it''s only a stone afterall. It''s difficult around here to find someone that''s willing to work with stones that aren''t sold in house. Not to mention, his benchman is an artist, and he''s also terribly convenient as well. And, to top it all off, his prices are so very reasonable for all the work I have him do.

Richard has agreed to cut me a new set of amethysts. Since he will be shipping me a sapphire in the near future in any event, I will just tack that on to the ticket. At the moment, I am contemplating size and shape. There''s no real hurry for these to be finished in any event, as I am going to save the final product to wear on our wedding day. Which seems, at the moment, far off in the future.

The broken stone will be sent back to Richard to do with as he pleases, and I will have a pendant as well as an eventual pair of earrings.
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Gale, congratulations to you for having such an incredible local jeweler, I know that many reading these posts would love to have someone they could rely on locally. I also applaud you for having such a realistic view of life and not always expecting someone else to be responsible for every thing that happens. It would appear that your confidence in your jeweler was entirely justified by his response to your "incident".

In our office that liability issue is one we frequently have with clients. It is not hidden in the small print and when doing a complicated job, like a stone recut, we get a signed release from our clients that they accept the possibility that the stone may be damaged during the process and that we can not assume liability for this. Over the years this has resulted in a few clients not having us do the work, which is just fine with me. Although we always have this discussion with clients that Richard is doing a recut for, we have yet to ever loose a stone and some of them have been VERY expensive.

Fedaykin and Michael E, thank you for stating your positions so elequently. I appreciate your willingness to speak out and take a position that may not be popular, but is correct.

Wink
 
I can''t say anything that hasn''t been said.

Included stones stones need to be set like all the rest, and it it is up to the customer to choose a jeweller who knows the risks and will take the apopropriate care, be it push less metal, or take a lot more time creating the perfect seat so you dont have to use the claws to create the balance.

That said, those who know, only know by making the mistakes. These lessons can''t be taught.

I rarely tell a customer ''all care but no responsibilty taken'', so I often take it off my own back. I hope machismo bravado doesn''t come into play. No salespeople to make the impossible promises, but I know that only too well...

I have done a lot of trade work and was asked by an excellent client to bare the burden of broken stones and I did my sums and told him how much per stone - on average (these were mostly diamonds - see above posts), and even 1-100 would drive me out of the competyative range.

All we can offer is the best job that we can do. I recently set some huge included emeralds (not badly included for emeralds) and the risk was all to real, given the consequences so I charged enough to make it worth my while - to seat them perfectly and shape the claws before bringing them over. It took away some of the fears but I was still shaky well after finishing the job.

Gale,
Amethysts are not so expensive to replace and I am sure, in the balance of things, that he is happy to pay a little extra or wing your deal on another one to make sure you have the jewels you want. Local or not it is good to see your being looked after!

Cheers,

Phillip

BTW, I dissagree that mechanically hammer setting stones is dangerous. I even set opals that way and it surprising (even though it looks increadibly dangerous) how much you can do. The metal buffers the impact to the stone (evidently), and I''d say at abt ten times as much as logic would suggest.
 
I''d like to thank everyone for their comments on this experience.

Just to let you know Platinumsmith, the average amethyst is easy to come by and inexpensive, but this particular situation represents a rather significant loss for either the jeweller or me to replace the broken stone. Indeed, given exchange rates, duties and taxes, the cost to replace one stone is only slightly less than the cost of the custom setting for two rather large earrings. While my jeweller quotes me great prices, it is still an amount not so easily dismissed. Add to that the issue of whether the remaining rough can be matched to the existing stone, and the problem gets even bigger.

NOTHING in my jeweller''s inventory comes close to matching the glorious colour of the amethysts Richard Homer sent me. Everything is literally pale in comparison. And certainly nothing compared to Richard''s cutting. I doubt amethyst of such quality could be found even in Toronto. In this instance, much of the cost of the stones is reflected in the artistry of the cutter rather than the value of the amethyst, but that''s only my opinion, of course.

In the interest of maintaining a great relationship with my jeweller, and his talented benchman, I chose this path. It''s the best one for me, and fair to the jeweller. I have a number of projects lined up for the next few months - he''ll probably cut me some slack somewhere. As Wink stated, I am lucky to have someone so able located on my doorstep!
 
The material you are talking about is top quality Uruguayan amethyst. Richard buys the highgrade from the mine owner every year at Tucson. Usually there is a kilo or less of the top material.

I know that some will scoff at the price, but we get from $50 to $100 per carat sometimes more for this material after Richard has worked his magic. This is a deep rich purple with flashes of red, highly reminiscent of the Siberian material we used to treasure thirty years ago.

Wink
 
Hey Wink! I got lucky! This was rough from Zambia, Richard happened upon while in Tucson.
 
Cool!
 
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