Brilliancescope and ACA diamond

[belle]

i see you added to your post while i was replying

Date: 1/30/2007 8:11:31 PM
Author: shiatsu

If the light return was that important to Whiteflash, we''d probably see them using brilliancescope like Excel Diamond does- even if the perfection of this instrument is in question you''d think he''d want stones with excellent brilliancescope scores over a stone with medium scores.

i addressed this before in previous postings...
bs has a predefined metric that favors a certain set of configurations (never mind the repeatability issue). this does not mean that one type or group of diamonds are any less beautiful or brilliant...or whatever you think the bs machine rates, it just means that these stones don''t do well on the metric. the machine is able to pick up differences that do not necessarily correlate to what our eye sees anyway.

Date: 1/30/2007 8:11:31 PM
Author: shiatsu

I''m not saying ACA diamonds aren''t great or anything, they do a great service for online diamond shoppers. Like Eightstar, Hearts on Fire, or Superbcert you know you''re getting a great diamond when you buy one. There just isn''t any real difference between an ACA diamond and any other AGS-0 diamond that I know of anyway. AGS and GIA are the authorities when it comes to grading diamonds, that''s why we send our diamonds to them so we know what we are getting. When you buy a branded diamond you just get another source telling you it''s a great diamond as well.

i think i see more of where you are coming from with this, and suffice it to say that for the most part i agree with you. when you are buying a branded diamond, you are buying their promise of what they believe is a quality product.
is that what you were saying?

 

[shiatsu]

Date: 1/30/2007 8:32:52 PM
Author: belle
i see you added to your post while i was replying

Date: 1/30/2007 8:11:31 PM
Author: shiatsu

I'm not saying ACA diamonds aren't great or anything, they do a great service for online diamond shoppers. Like Eightstar, Hearts on Fire, or Superbcert you know you're getting a great diamond when you buy one. There just isn't any real difference between an ACA diamond and any other AGS-0 diamond that I know of anyway. AGS and GIA are the authorities when it comes to grading diamonds, that's why we send our diamonds to them so we know what we are getting. When you buy a branded diamond you just get another source telling you it's a great diamond as well.

i think i see more of where you are coming from with this, and suffice it to say that for the most part i agree with you. when you are buying a branded diamond, you are buying their promise of what they believe is a quality product.
is that what you were saying?

Yeah, that's really the jist of what I was saying. I think the jist got lost in the hearts & arrows, AGS-0 rejects, and usefulness of the brilliancescope discussion. When you buy an ACA diamond you know you're getting a great diamond, but for that matter when you buy any AGS-0 diamond you're getting a great diamond and I'd take AGS's opinion over Whiteflash's in a heartbeat. I think where I disagree is when people start marketing their diamonds as being better than AGS-0, to me there's no such animal.

But what do I know, I'm just an average engagement ring shopper who took it upon myself to learn as muuch as I could about diamonds, and to me the Brilliancescope represents a useful tool even if it's slightly imperfect and some have an agenda against it. Where do I get my info? From talking with nearly a dozen vendors and an expert appraiser, and a lot of reading.

 

[Finding_Neverland]

Date: 1/30/2007 8:38:39 PM
Author: shiatsu

Date: 1/30/2007 8:32:52 PM

Author: belle

i see you added to your post while i was replying

Date: 1/30/2007 8:11:31 PM

Author: shiatsu


I''m not saying ACA diamonds aren''t great or anything, they do a great service for online diamond shoppers. Like Eightstar, Hearts on Fire, or Superbcert you know you''re getting a great diamond when you buy one. There just isn''t any real difference between an ACA diamond and any other AGS-0 diamond that I know of anyway. AGS and GIA are the authorities when it comes to grading diamonds, that''s why we send our diamonds to them so we know what we are getting. When you buy a branded diamond you just get another source telling you it''s a great diamond as well.

i think i see more of where you are coming from with this, and suffice it to say that for the most part i agree with you. when you are buying a branded diamond, you are buying their promise of what they believe is a quality product.

is that what you were saying?

Yeah, that''s really the jist of what I was saying. I think the jist got lost in the hearts & arrows, AGS-0 rejects, and usefulness of the brilliancescope discussion. When you buy an ACA diamond you know you''re getting a great diamond, but for that matter when you buy any AGS-0 diamond you''re getting a great diamond and I''d take AGS''s opinion over Whiteflash''s in a heartbeat. I think where I disagree is when people start marketing their diamonds as being better than AGS-0, to me there''s no such animal.


But what do I know, I''m just an average engagement ring shopper who took it upon myself to learn as muuch as I could about diamonds, and to me the Brilliancescope represents a useful tool even if it''s slightly imperfect and some have an agenda against it. Where do I get my info? From talking with nearly a dozen vendors and an expert appraiser.

Is the Brilliance Scope a useful tool?? Yes.

As long as you bear in mind that the BS only captures a portion of any diamond''s performance capabilities. In a BS, the diamond sits on its table while light bulbs flash and cameras snap photos. The diamond is static.

How often will the diamond on any woman''s finger be static?? Hardly ever. Peoples'' hands are constantly in motion during their waking hours.

Can cutters cut diamonds specifically to perform well on a BS?? Probably. Do they?? Only the cutters know for sure, and I''ll bet they won''t tell.

 

[belle]

Date: 1/30/2007 8:38:39 PM
Author: shiatsu

Yeah, that''s really the jist of what I was saying. I think the jist got lost in the hearts & arrows, AGS-0 rejects, and usefulness of the brilliancescope discussion.

got it.

Date: 1/30/2007 8:38:39 PM
Author: shiatsu

When you buy an ACA diamond you know you''re getting a great diamond, but for that matter when you buy any AGS-0 diamond you''re getting a great diamond and I''d take AGS''s opinion over Whiteflash''s in a heartbeat. I think where I disagree is when people start marketing their diamonds as being better than AGS-0, to me there''s no such animal.

i think you''re still missing the point about the benefit of optical symmetry. to some people it is a big deal. just like it is a big deal to have a certain color or clarity. as mentioned already, ags0 does not guarantee optical symmetry. having an aca does. some people want and need that guarantee.
they certainly do not market their diamonds as being better than ags0. their diamonds ARE ags0, there is no reason to try and market them as ''better'' than ags0.

Date: 1/30/2007 8:38:39 PM
Author: shiatsu

But what do I know, I''m just an average engagement ring shopper who took it upon myself to learn as muuch as I could about diamonds, and to me the Brilliancescope represents a useful tool even if it''s slightly imperfect and some have an agenda against it. Where do I get my info? From talking with nearly a dozen vendors and an expert appraiser.

bs can be a useful tool, i am not saying it isn''t. i was just pointing out the issues and the reasons that it can''t be relied up for making useful assessments.
i don''t think there is any ''agenda'' against it. there are just those that choose not to use it.

 

[shiatsu]

Date: 1/30/2007 8:53:33 PM
Author: Finding_Neverland

Is the Brilliance Scope a useful tool?? Yes.

As long as you bear in mind that the BS only captures a portion of any diamond's performance capabilities. In a BS, the diamond sits on its table while light bulbs flash and cameras snap photos. The diamond is static.

How often will the diamond on any woman's finger be static?? Hardly ever. Peoples' hands are constantly in motion during their waking hours.

Can cutters cut diamonds specifically to perform well on a BS?? Probably. Do they?? Only the cutters know for sure, and I'll bet they won't tell.

Well yeah you have to keep in mind it's limitations when using it, but for the online shopper the pictures of the diamond under certain lighting conditions alone speak a thousands words towards what you are getting... The brilliancescope isn't nearly prevalent enough for the cutters to be looking for ways to cheat it yet. How many jewelry stores do you know of that carries one? Heck, I only know of two places online that carries it. Once they start looking at how certain cut perform under the Brilliancescope and cutting them accordingly, it would probably be a good thing though.

 

[shiatsu]

Date: 1/30/2007 8:56:29 PM
Author: belle

Date: 1/30/2007 8:38:39 PM
Author: shiatsu

Yeah, that''s really the jist of what I was saying. I think the jist got lost in the hearts & arrows, AGS-0 rejects, and usefulness of the brilliancescope discussion.

got it.

Date: 1/30/2007 8:38:39 PM
Author: shiatsu

When you buy an ACA diamond you know you''re getting a great diamond, but for that matter when you buy any AGS-0 diamond you''re getting a great diamond and I''d take AGS''s opinion over Whiteflash''s in a heartbeat. I think where I disagree is when people start marketing their diamonds as being better than AGS-0, to me there''s no such animal.

i think you''re still missing the point about the benefit of optical symmetry. to some people it is a big deal. just like it is a big deal to have a certain color or clarity. as mentioned already, ags0 does not guarantee optical symmetry. having an aca does. some people want and need that guarantee.
they certainly do not market their diamonds as being better than ags0. their diamonds ARE ags0, there is no reason to try and market them as ''better'' than ags0.

Date: 1/30/2007 8:38:39 PM
Author: shiatsu

But what do I know, I''m just an average engagement ring shopper who took it upon myself to learn as muuch as I could about diamonds, and to me the Brilliancescope represents a useful tool even if it''s slightly imperfect and some have an agenda against it. Where do I get my info? From talking with nearly a dozen vendors and an expert appraiser.

bs can be a useful tool, i am not saying it isn''t. i was just pointing out the issues and the reasons that it can''t be relied up for making useful assessments.
i don''t think there is any ''agenda'' against it. there are just those that choose not to use it.

AGS-0 does guarantee Ideal symmetry, which they say is a grade above GIA''s excellant symmetry. Which is why an AGS-0 diamond without good hearts and arrows is neary impossible to find...

No agenda against the Brilliancescope? I''d say some people would consider themselves better off if the Brilliancescope would just go away or nobody would use it.

 

[belle]

Date: 1/30/2007 9:06:51 PM
Author: shiatsu

AGS-0 does guarantee Ideal symmetry, which they say is a grade above GIA's excellant symmetry. Which is why an AGS-0 diamond without good hearts and arrows is neary impossible to find...

aha...here is the disconnect!
physical symmetry, which ags and gia both grade, is not the same as optical symmetry. you can have great physical symmetry and not so great optical symmetry and vice versa.
aca guarantees top optical symmetry. the ideal grade from ags guarantees top physical symmetry.

Date: 1/30/2007 9:06:51 PM
Author: shiatsu


No agenda against the Brilliancescope? I'd say some people would consider themselves better off if the Brilliancescope would just go away or nobody would use it.

i don't agree but.. c'est la vie. i don't think it matters much either way. those that use it do fine by it and those that don't do too.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 1/30/2007 7:59:09 PM
Author: CaptAubrey
Reading through all this, the aphorism about ''a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'' keeps running through my head.

This a very complex subject, and consumers need to be careful about thinking they know enough to be having meaningful opinions about it. That there is disagreement between the experts should tell you something.

Amen.