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Brilliance on paper vs. in person

EL

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
6
Hi PriceScope members,

My GF and I would like to get a diamond with the best brilliance. After much reading we figured to get a very brilliant diamond we should get a stone with:
GIA excellent cut
AGS cut grade 0-2
HCA score under 2

The concern I had was that the stone might might rate well on these cut grading scales, but not be the most brilliant/good looking stone.
1. Are we taking the right approach to getting the most brilliant stone?
2. Would we be able to tell the difference between GIA excellent vs. GIA very good cut?
3. Should we be considering any other measurements such as idealscope pictures and gemadvisor models?
4. A Robbins bros. associate told us yesterday that there could be other factors (not listed on a lab report) that might make a stone less brilliant, such as being cut from a cloudy rough. Is that true, and is there any way to screen for that besides an appraisal?

We are considering buying the stone online because of the competitive pricing online, and might not be able to view it in person against other options so we wanted to make sure we are going down the right path in selecting a nicely cut, brilliant quality stone.

Other parameters we are thinking of going with:
Color: DEF
Clarity: vs2 or above, eye clean at a minimum
symmetry: excellent
no fluorescence or culet

Thanks everyone!! This site has been super helpful to us so far.
-EL
 

Gibson486

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
91
you also want good clarity too (which is what he means by "cloudy rough"). Your best bet is to go eye clean. I would start with SI1's...if you do not think they are eye clean, go to VS2. Anything above that is hard to see.

You need to pick the color. This is totally up to you. Some can live with a J color, some cannot live below an F color. Total preference.

Go to a jeweler and look at as many diamonds in different ranges. This will give you an idea of what you like and do not like,

As for you Ex vs VG questions....it's debatable. You have to see for yourself if you can see the difference.

idealscope is nice, but if you are seeing them in person, your eyes are a better tool. gemex reports....lots of places I have been too do not even bother with them.

HCA is a good tool, but keep in mind that it is only a weeding out tool and it is based on assumptions, so it is not flawless.

Also, where do you live? You may be able to still get some great deals at your local B&M store.
 

EL

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
6
Thanks Gibson!

We want to go with colorless (DEF) and eye clean (VS2 or better) at a minimum.

We live in the Los Angeles/Orange County area so I think we have a lot of options to go look at stones. Sounds like that might be a good route to go. Since we are average consumers, do you suggest examining the stones in daylight/LED lights/fluorescent light? With the naked eye or a loupe?
 

Gibson486

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
91
you choice. Some people just care if it's eye clean and clear. Others really go into detail to see what the inclusion is and how detrimental it is. Any good retailer or e-tailer should be able to walk you through the process. The whole idealscope thing is really nice for online stones, but doing it with B&M can be annoying.

Just to let you know, there are eye clean SI1s out there. However, what may be eye clean to me, may not be eye clean to you.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,845
EL|1304362975|2910242 said:
Thanks Gibson!

We want to go with colorless (DEF) and eye clean (VS2 or better) at a minimum.

We live in the Los Angeles/Orange County area so I think we have a lot of options to go look at stones. Sounds like that might be a good route to go. Since we are average consumers, do you suggest examining the stones in daylight/LED lights/fluorescent light? With the naked eye or a loupe?
Look at the stone in all different lighting. Before you buy, post the GIA/AGS number and the carat size here on PS so we
can take a look. If you want bang for your buck G/eye-clean SI1 is good but DEF/VS2 or higher is fine too. Happy hunting.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
20,686
EL|1304360067|2910182 said:
Hi PriceScope members,

My GF and I would like to get a diamond with the best brilliance. After much reading we figured to get a very brilliant diamond we should get a stone with:
GIA excellent cut
AGS cut grade 0-2
HCA score under 2

The concern I had was that the stone might might rate well on these cut grading scales, but not be the most brilliant/good looking stone.
Yeah - you've hit on a really important distinction: the paper tells you what the diamond is doing. Your eyes, and only your eyes, can tell *you* how you percieve what the diamond is doing, and if you like what you see.

1. Are we taking the right approach to getting the most brilliant stone?
What do you mean by "brilliant", exactly? Do you mean generically "sparkly all over", or specifically "lots of white light return"? Stones can be proportioned in various ways, and lots of "well cut" stones will have different nuances - some proportions predispose the stone toward white light return in some lighting types whilst others err toward coloured light return in those same lighting types, some proportions will produce big slow flashes whilst others produce speedy twinkles.. depends on what you prefer - and if you care ;))

2. Would we be able to tell the difference between GIA excellent vs. GIA very good cut?
Go first by what you see, or if you're deciding to have a stone shipped out, by pictures/numbers/scans, not the assigned cut grade

3. Should we be considering any other measurements such as idealscope pictures and gemadvisor models?
Yes, if you're buying blind especially The reason for this is that GIA EX and VG are both ranges that include a variety of proportion combinations. Usually EX is better than VG (it's higher on the scale, right?) but.. not always. GIA has a rather odd way of grading cut - the EX range includes certain crown facet values, pavilion facet values, girdle thickness measurements, table facet values.. as does vg, good... but GIA does not consider how some of those crown and pavilion and table proportions work together (this is AGS' niche), so some EX graded stones will have very different appearances and light return amount and type than others. And some VG stones will have more or "better" light return than some EXs. And since the numbers they're using to assign cut grade are all averaged and rounded, we don't have any idea what sorts of ranges or artifacts are hidden - which is why pictures & seeing the stone w/ your own eyes are really invaluable tools

4. A Robbins bros. associate told us yesterday that there could be other factors (not listed on a lab report) that might make a stone less brilliant, such as being cut from a cloudy rough. Is that true, and is there any way to screen for that besides an appraisal?
Inclusions can definitely play an important part in evaluating light return in the lower ranges - but you're looking at reputably graded VS2s, so this won't be a concern for you. You have the big advantage of being able to see stones in-person - compare in lots of lights, as tyty said, and see what your eyes consistently pick out as "best" in a variety of lights. Compare once w/ freshly cleaned stones and again w/ dirty stones (just - touch them, and get your finger oils all over)

We are considering buying the stone online because of the competitive pricing online, and might not be able to view it in person against other options so we wanted to make sure we are going down the right path in selecting a nicely cut, brilliant quality stone.
You can always have the stone shipped out to you to inspect before you have it set - in fact I'd highly recommend it. Going out and looking at stones will give you some idea of what you like to see, and then you know what characteristics to look for in an online stone if you then decide to go that route.

Other parameters we are thinking of going with:
Color: DEF
Clarity: vs2 or above, eye clean at a minimum
symmetry: excellent
no fluorescence or culet

Thanks everyone!! This site has been super helpful to us so far.
-EL
 
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