Brian Gavin Review

[Anise]

Brian Gavin Diamonds was the vendor my SO and I were working with in these two posts.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/custom-ring-design-woes.181410/page-2
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendor-experience-update.181702/

After the third round of CADs, we decided it was best to drop the project. The center stone we picked out is now available; you can view it here: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/0.738-f-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104054189061

After Lesley discovered the original miscommunication, she really did bend over backward to ensure our satisfaction and try to deliver to us a design that we liked. Deciding not to go forward with the project was really a difficult decision for us to make. Brian offered to buy the sapphires from us for what we paid for them, which was a nice gesture.

I think there were some mistakes made on both sides of the transaction, and the last time I spoke with Brian or Lesley I did get the impression they would improve their process because of this. They were very sweet to talk to on the phone and I have the utmost confidence in the quality of their work had we decided to go through with things.

Because my SO was working with BGD directly (in wanting to keep the timing and final price from me), I'm not privy to all of the communication that did or did not take place. My SO recently said that he has over 70 e-mails on this one ring (this includes some e-mails we had back and forth before we contacted BGD) over the almost two-months we've been focused on this.

After we decided on our design with the help of their Sales Associate, we should have been more forthright in relaying our main points/design features to their Sales Associate before she sent the information to the design staff for the quote. We assumed that she understood what we wanted and relayed that information onto the designer. Even then I'm not sure if this would have alleviated the original problem, but I think it would have helped.

The Sales Associate stated to us early on that we would need to source the sapphires ourselves, but when we spoke to Brian later he said that his preference was to not use outside stones. Their policy on this should be made more clear to the consumer, as we would have preferred that BGD source the sapphires. Some of the problems with our design could have possibly been alleviated with different sized/shaped side stones.

We didn't feel the process we went through closely matched their process stated on the website. I'm not sure what timeline was discussed between my SO and BGD, but their website states between 10 and 15 business days for most projects. I'm not sure if they considered our project more complex, or if they had a particularly high workload, but it took about 5 business days to receive our initial quote (to my knowledge we never did receive an updated price) and 7-8 business days to receive the first CAD. I know I've read on here somewhere that custom work from anyone typically takes around 6 weeks, but I think if we had a realistic view from the outset of how long it would take in total we would not have been so distressed.

We didn't know at the outset that they required the entire project to be paid in full before they started working on it. I'm sure they have their own reasons for implementing this policy, but from the consumer's point-of-view it would be more fair to only require a deposit on the ring until it is ready to be shipped out. I think the price of the center stone and half the expected price of the setting would be fair if they really needed a majority of the price. My SO was pretty stressed out over having paid for a ring in early/mid October and not have anything to show for it.

None of this is meant to say that they are a bad company or bad people; I definitely believe they tried their very best to take care of us. I also believe they sell a good product and have beautiful diamonds. These are just my observations of what I think we did wrong and what I think they could do better in the future, as someone who was involved but didn't see all of the communication. While we happened to get dropped through the cracks, I don't think our experience is typical.

 

[pandabee]

This is a very candid and objective review (I think, considering the situation). I'm glad you were able to resolve things cordially. It's too bad they couldn't complete your ring to the idea the two of you had...hopefully you can see its completion soon!!!

 

[mandasand]

I appreciate that you said it didn't work out because of miscommunication on both sides. I will say that over 70 e-mails seems like a lot. Perhaps on your next venture, you and your SO can come up with a way to be as clear and concise in the beginning as possible and wait to send additional emails until you've been able to compile all your thoughts into one email. Maybe all the back and forth confused things. I certanely was confused because your inspiration ring looked so different than the CAD.

 

[Polished]

I've had nothing but good experiences with BG. However, one observation I have is that right at the start the whole process might have benefitted from being slowed down. From the original concept to getting a quote seemed too rushed. Working through the whole design thoroughly from the onset would be more likely to prevent mistakes from magnifying as the project progressed.

 

[Maisie]

I always thought the 10-15 days was to actually create the ring. Did you think that was from the first contact to completed ring?

The CAD process isn't included in that time. Paying for the ring up front seems like the best way forward to me. What if the customer cancels the project after its made? What should the vendor do with a completed custom ring if the customer doesn't want it?

Have you decided what you are going to do now? Will you still be going custom, and have you chosen a new vendor to work with?

 

[Anise]

Throughout getting the whole design together, I never asked for design features that were on the original CAD. Also, when the sales associate says "It will be exactly as we discussed" throughout the entire process, and directly asks us if a ring design is close to what we want, and we say, "Yes, we'd like that", I don't see how that could have been made more clear from our end. I only mentioned that it would have been good to have sent a detailed list when the sales associate requested the quote because that was one thing we neglected to do, but from the story they gave us, it was an internal error/miscommunication that resulted in the design mix-up.

From their website:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/custom-design/customized-jewelry/
"How Long Will It Take? Most custom design projects are completed within 10 to 15 business days. Small modifications made during the process result in a much shorter turnaround, while very complex work can take longer. Fees and timelines are clearly established at the outset of the project." It's not made very clear that this probably is intended to reflect how long it takes after CAD approval. I don't know what the timeline established was, but I'm under the impression that we expected to receive our completed ring by late October or early November. If the first CAD was not so completely off I think that was a reasonable estimate.

I really don't think it was rushed at all; we spent almost two weeks with the sales associate hammering out a design. We spent almost two months from initial contact to throwing in the towel, without an acceptable CAD produced. I don't think that's rushed, especially after they accepted payment over a month ago.

I don't want to sound harsh, but because this whole experience has been so emotionally draining for both my SO and myself, it's highly doubtful we will ever try to commission a custom piece of this magnitude again. We've selected a ring that is already made; the only thing that needs to be done is to have it resized.

I do want to stress that I feel like they gave us their best effort. We really would have liked to have purchased from them, as they came highly recommended from a PSer we know in person. I also believe our experience was not typical. Lesley mentioned that you can judge the quality of a company based on how they respond when things go wrong, and I think it's important that people can read about those experiences as well as the glowing reviews.

 

[TravelingGal]

I've been following your story, but had no idea it was them (I've never done custom through them, and can't recognize cads around here like some others). If it's any consolation, I didn't have a good experience with them either. I think they're great for a lot of PSers, but they're not for me.

That being said, custom in general can be a real doozy. So it could really be that custom is not for everyone!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am very sorry you had a difficult experience. I hope you will love your new ring!

So you are buying a stock ring that is not in your size? If it has diamonds in the shank, I would recommend having them order one in your size, if possible. I just don't want to see you have new problems.

 

[Ashleigh]

Hi Anise,

Sorry to hear about your experience but glad to know that you're moving forward. Since most ladies are more detailed oriented than men, would it be possible for you to communicate directly with the next benchman/designer? Hope to see your dream ring soon.

 

[milton333]

Since I think you're likely to get some "defenders" to respond, I thought I might just share that I haven't been thrilled with them, either. I think they sell lovely stones, and their stock settings are generally quite lovely and well-executed. But . . .

First, their pricing for custom is extremely high. Highest of any vendor I contacted, including nationally-known jewelry designers. And I'm not sure that price is justified by the quality of their metal or pave work, which is generally good but not high-end-pricing quality IMO.

Second, I have had unfortunate communications experiences with them, with seemingly arbitrary and capricious departures from the written policies contained on their website. Without getting into too much detail, it certainly seemed to me that BGD had changed a policy specifically in response to my communication with them, though it was not changed on the website (i.e., I was told this was a "new policy implemented yesterday," which seemed highly unlikely to have been unrelated to my communication).

Communications have been challenging all around, with an episode that made me uncomfortable in particular. I was interested in a new stone that did not have pictures, AGS report, or IS posted yet on the website. I inquired, and they placed a courtesy hold while they got the pictures. It took about a week, and my sales associate never told me that the pics et al. were ready (and did not send them to me), just posted them on the website. She assumed I was constantly monitoring the website, apparently, and then suddenly started bombarding me with calls and terse emails about how many people were waiting to buy that stone and I'd better hurry up and make up my mind because "everyone was talking about" whatever was going on with me. I'm not thrilled to think that I'm the subject of gossip around my vendor's office, kwim?

Finally, I had my stone set into one of their stock settings for a pendant. The entire process, from payment to shipment, took more than a month. I had hoped to have the setting for Christmas or my birthday, but no dice. They advertised the setting for a 1/2 carat center stone, which is what I had, but I was told that they had no settings in stock, and had to order each one from another vendor. They took more than a week "evaluating" my stone, so by the time they placed the order for the setting, it was into the holidays and past mid-January by the time I received my setting.

With the pendant, the setting is nice and the melee are excellent quality, but they are not precisely set into the halo. They are not all on exactly the same plane, and some are noticeably closer to the outer edge of the halo, while some are closer to the inner edge, leaving an uneven appearance to the milgrained outer edge of the halo if you look closely. It's nit-picky, but for the price and the hassle, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I would not want to pursue custom work.

 

[Laila619]

I always thought the 10-15 days was to actually create the ring. Did you think that was from the first contact to completed ring?

The CAD process isn't included in that time. Paying for the ring up front seems like the best way forward to me. What if the customer cancels the project after its made? What should the vendor do with a completed custom ring if the customer doesn't want it?

Other vendors only require a CAD deposit, and don't require you to pay for the ring until the CADS are approved.

 

[Laila619]

Since I think you're likely to get some "defenders" to respond, I thought I might just share that I haven't been thrilled with them, either. I think they sell lovely stones, and their stock settings are generally quite lovely and well-executed. But . . .

First, their pricing for custom is extremely high. Highest of any vendor I contacted, including nationally-known jewelry designers. And I'm not sure that price is justified by the quality of their metal or pave work, which is generally good but not high-end-pricing quality IMO.

Yes, very true. They wanted an absurd amount of money just because I wanted to make one of their settings have double prongs instead of single.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

My recollection of Leon and Victor Canera was that they asked for half payment to begin the work on a custom piece. The other half was due right before shipment.

 

[yssie]

I'm very sorry that this has been a difficult experience for you and your DH. The uncertainty involved in custom work is stressful under the best of circumstances, things going off-track makes it completely nerve-racking

I think your review was honest and fair to both your experience and to BGD. They do lovely work, but it's true that all vendors have their ups and downs - it sounds like there were several miscommunications and things just really weren't coming together with your project. I'm glad they stepped up and offered to buy back the sapphires, and I'm *very* glad that you've found another ring that you love!


I do want to add one thing - custom work is such an independent venture! One person's experience may be very different from another's even with the same vendor, and there's no meaningful way to judge whether someone else is doing it the "right" way! How quickly a project progresses and how much communication takes place both depend on what sort of relationship vendor and customer have, whether they *click*, what sort of project it is, what the expectations are... some of my custom projects took ten emails and others needed hundreds. The only thing that anyone can say with certainty is that it's super important to find a vendor with whom you're really comfortable!

I think WF requires full payment at the get-go too. Canera requested half to begin work, same as DS' experience, and I paid DBL in full at the end.. I remember paying BGD up front too, but I don't know if that was a requirement..? So apparently it's all over the place!

ETA: Now I'm not so sure about WF either - maybe they only actually require a CAD deposit at first? I've only ever done it one way to avoid multiple wire transfer fees!

 

[Laila619]

I'm very sorry that this has been a difficult experience for you and your DH. The uncertainty involved in custom work is stressful under the best of circumstances, things going off-track makes it completely nerve-racking

I think your review was honest and fair to both your experience and to BGD. They do lovely work, but it's true that all vendors have their ups and downs - it sounds like there were several miscommunications and things just really weren't coming together with your project. I'm glad they stepped up and offered to buy back the sapphires, and I'm *very* glad that you've found another ring that you love!


I do want to add one thing - custom work is such an independent venture! One person's experience may be very different from another's even with the same vendor, and there's no meaningful way to judge whether someone else is doing it the "right" way! How quickly a project progresses and how much communication takes place both depend on what sort of relationship vendor and customer have, whether they *click*, what sort of project it is, what the expectations are... some of my custom projects took ten emails and others needed hundreds. The only thing that anyone can say with certainty is that it's super important to find a vendor with whom you're really comfortable!

I think WF requires full payment at the get-go too. Canera requested half to begin work, same as DS' experience, and I paid DBL in full at the end.. I remember paying BGD up front too, but I don't know if that was a requirement..? So apparently it's all over the place!

ETA: Now I'm not so sure about WF either - maybe they only actually require a CAD deposit at first? I've only ever done it one way to avoid multiple wire transfer fees!

I ordered a custom piece in 2010 from WF, and they required only a CAD deposit up front. If I wanted to walk away from the project, I was only out the CAD deposit. If I wanted to go ahead with the piece, the deposit was applied towards the total, and I had to pay the remaining balance once the CADS were approved. They would then cast the piece once it was paid in full.

 

[yssie]

I'm very sorry that this has been a difficult experience for you and your DH. The uncertainty involved in custom work is stressful under the best of circumstances, things going off-track makes it completely nerve-racking

I think your review was honest and fair to both your experience and to BGD. They do lovely work, but it's true that all vendors have their ups and downs - it sounds like there were several miscommunications and things just really weren't coming together with your project. I'm glad they stepped up and offered to buy back the sapphires, and I'm *very* glad that you've found another ring that you love!


I do want to add one thing - custom work is such an independent venture! One person's experience may be very different from another's even with the same vendor, and there's no meaningful way to judge whether someone else is doing it the "right" way! How quickly a project progresses and how much communication takes place both depend on what sort of relationship vendor and customer have, whether they *click*, what sort of project it is, what the expectations are... some of my custom projects took ten emails and others needed hundreds. The only thing that anyone can say with certainty is that it's super important to find a vendor with whom you're really comfortable!

I think WF requires full payment at the get-go too. Canera requested half to begin work, same as DS' experience, and I paid DBL in full at the end.. I remember paying BGD up front too, but I don't know if that was a requirement..? So apparently it's all over the place!

ETA: Now I'm not so sure about WF either - maybe they only actually require a CAD deposit at first? I've only ever done it one way to avoid multiple wire transfer fees!

I ordered a custom piece in 2010 from WF, and they required only a CAD deposit up front. If I wanted to walk away from the project, I was only out the CAD deposit. If I wanted to go ahead with the piece, the deposit was applied towards the total, and I had to pay the remaining balance once the CADS were approved. They would then cast the piece once it was paid in full.

Ah, k. Thanks for the clarification Laila

 

[CharmyPoo]

I am so sorry this happened to you - I can only imagine the disappointment you feel. I went through a similar experience but to a far less degree.

What are your plans now? Why don't you try using DBL or Steven Kirsch? I have a feeling they will be able to execute your vision.

Do you mind sharing who the sales associate is that you were dealing with?

In terms of payment, other than Leon - I didn't pay anyone else anything until the ring was done. Having my diamond was sufficient.

 

[Octavia]

I ordered a custom piece in 2010 from WF, and they required only a CAD deposit up front. If I wanted to walk away from the project, I was only out the CAD deposit. If I wanted to go ahead with the piece, the deposit was applied towards the total, and I had to pay the remaining balance once the CADS were approved. They would then cast the piece once it was paid in full.

This used to be BGD's policy as well -- I got a couple custom pieces from them in their early days and it was something like a $250 CAD fee to start (it has been a few years so I don't remember exactly). I wonder when they changed it?

 

[justginger]

My recollection of Leon and Victor Canera was that they asked for half payment to begin the work on a custom piece. The other half was due right before shipment.

Yes, this is how Leon handled my order as well. He estimated what the final cost would be (left some wiggle room in case something major came up), required 50% at time of beginning, and the balance before shipping. The balance ended up being less than he had estimated, which was a bonus that I imagine happens most of the time.

When I worked with Adam, I didn't pay for anything until the project was completed. I had a wasted set of CADs along the way that he ate the cost of as well. For a custom job, his bench was amazing - was able to exactly replicate what I wanted, in record time, and with no miscommunication whatsoever. It's such a shame that custom is so up or down, right or wrong.

I'm sorry you had such a stressful and disappointing experience, Anise. I think you should do whatever makes you happiest at the end of the day, and if that's a stock setting, go for it.

 

[Maisie]

I always thought the 10-15 days was to actually create the ring. Did you think that was from the first contact to completed ring?

The CAD process isn't included in that time. Paying for the ring up front seems like the best way forward to me. What if the customer cancels the project after its made? What should the vendor do with a completed custom ring if the customer doesn't want it?

Other vendors only require a CAD deposit, and don't require you to pay for the ring until the CADS are approved.

I thought the OP meant they had to pay the full cost of the ring up front before it was made. This is normal practise isn't it? I know you have to pay a CAD fee but i'm sure the OP was saying they weren't happy about paying for the entire ring up front.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Several of us just mentioned ring makers like Leon and Victor Canera who require half payment up front and the remaining half before shipping, Maisie. All do not require full payment up front.

 

[Anise]

@TravelingGal, thanks! We've both been turned off by this custom experience so it's possible that custom is not for everyone!

@DiamondSeeker, the stock ring only needs to be sized up a 1/4 size, so I think we will be OK. The store has their own bench that they send jewelry out for work like that and formal inspections; I feel confidant that they would ensure the setting is sound. They also have a policy of only being able to size up or down one size (not sure if they mean full sizes or quarter sizes - they have their own sizing system based on internal ring circumference, so each of their sizes is roughly a mm in circumference difference) This particular piece was the only stock ring that we both liked on my finger without wanting any changes. Everything else I tried on was, "I like this but. . . ." which is what encouraged us to pursue custom in the first place. We hadn't tried on the stock ring yet when we started the custom process, so we didn't know it was out there.

@Milton333, thank you for sharing your story! My SO mentioned that your troubles sound similarly to ours.

@CharmyPoo, we plan to get a stock ring from somewhere else. We are both so emotionally exhausted from this experience that we don't have anything left to try a custom job again. I have no doubt that the ring is executable, if only with different stones.

@JustGinger, thank you!

 

[purplesparklies]

So sorry that this experience has dampened your spirits. Enjoy your beautiful new, stress free ring and an amazing life together!