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Bought a ring and rock! Proposal time

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Corely, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. Jimmianne
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Jimmianne » Dec 12, 2018
    Corely, best of luck.
    And to others on this thread, I would not fault the vendor too much. I have had a trusted jeweler for many years with a skilled bench, and they are still not up to PS geek standards. They don’t know that they don’t know. Here we get to see the best in high magnification. It changes one’s perspective on quality!
     
  2. Corely
    Rough_Rock

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    by Corely » Dec 12, 2018
    Oh yes.. any France updates would be very nice. I hear they are still planning on more protests this upcoming Saturday. We are staying in La Defense is there any inkling that nastiness could roll over into that part of town? Aslo.. Things are only closed down on Saturdays correct? So if we were to do city stuff Thurs, Fri and Sun and say maybe a trip out to Versailles on Sat to avoid the city would that be a good plan? After this Christmas Market shooting, the road blocks all the way to Marseilles and of course the Champs Elysees violence we are pretty on the fence about even going to Paris right now. The reaction to Macrons speech does not seem to be much a positive light in the peace direction. What do you think.. is it safe to bring a child to Paris right now? We will be there on the 20th. Any info would be great. Thanks,

    Matt
     
  3. TreeScientist
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    by TreeScientist » Dec 12, 2018
    Cannot comment on France, but if you change your mind, you can always come to Norway and say hi. :wavey:

    Land of oil-rich socialists where damn near everyone is content with life, and definitely the safest and most trusting place I've ever lived. We've been having some nice weather here too. Finally have snow on the ground, which brightens everything up, and it's been sunny and -2 deg C for about a week. If you want to come to Oslo, I'd be happy to give you the "locals" tour, meaning avoiding all of the tourist traps haha. Always happy to give back to our troops (2 generation military family).
     
  4. Corely
    Rough_Rock

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    by Corely » Dec 12, 2018
    Very cool thanks so much! We actually did a tour around Scandinavia 4 months ago. Copenhagen, Tallin, St. Petersberg, Helsinki, Stockholm. Didn't make it to Norway though so Ill pitch that to her if we end up switching from Paris. How are the Christmas Markets in Oslo? Would prefer to do this proposal in Paris because we have had some special memories there in the past. However.. riots an such might spoil all that. Thanks!
     
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  5. kipari
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by kipari » Dec 12, 2018
    La Défense is far enough away from the center, so shouldn't be a problem at all (obviously, I cannot vouch for any crazy protesters, but they haven't talked about any parts of the city that are outside the VERY city center at all) .
    I'm living close to Versailles, so I can conform that I haven't seen ANy protests whatsoever in my neck of the woods. For Saturday Versailles is the perfect plan because you're already on the right side of town. If you want to eat (lunch or dinner) close to the castle in a family friendly, warm, and delicious typically French restaurant, try "derrière l'église". For afternoon cake and hot Chocolate :gaulupeau (old school French pâtisserie with salon de thé) or the Waldorf Astoria Trianon Palace Versailles (fancy schmancy, and goes with the Marie Antoinette feel).
    Also :st. Germain en Laye is really cute, but in the right direction and the castle is soooooooo dreamy (it's the national archeological museum now...)
    Everything is open in Paris atm. I cannot say how things will evolve, but I but this week-end there probably won't be anything because of heightened security levels after Strasbourg. I don't know if they will postpone or if this will rather fade out the movement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  6. kipari
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by kipari » Dec 12, 2018
    Protesters seem to come into Paris for those marches and it seems there are some that are just looking for trouble (like hooligans) with the police. Any pretext will do for them. The French sure do like to live up to their French revolution reputation.
    The road blocks are more in the very north and south of the country , but definitely not between Paris and the western suburbs
     
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  7. kipari
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by kipari » Dec 12, 2018
    OK, I'll shoot you an email!!
     
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  8. tyty333
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by tyty333 » Dec 12, 2018
    Hi Corely...I've stayed out of this thread because you've gotten lots of good advice. I do want to post some nice princess cut and cushion cuts so you
    know what to look for when you got back.

    Any stone should have nice light return (lots of little mirrors flashing on/off). Minimize the mushy areas (these areas do not return light well).
    Its easy to post these stones as good examples because they are all AGS000 with proven light return.
    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-4054979.htm
    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3986317.htm
    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-4007489.htm
    Stones that are not-so-good. Mushy areas on princess cuts usually show up just in side the table. We usually try to find princess cuts where the table is
    smaller than the depth. Also, when you turn the stone sideways, look for some crown (instead of a complete flat table surface).
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.34-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-6194324
    The stone linked above (and pictured below) has a flat table with no crown
    flat table, no crown.PNG
    This stone is showing too much mush (facets should be clearly defined and flashing on/off) Black areas show mush.
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.51-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-5981935
    princess with too much mush.PNG
    Others with too much mush
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.50-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-6124575
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.51-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-5768054
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.50-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-6211487
    Not a nice faceting pattern
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.51-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3693471

    I'll make another post about cushions. It will be hard to find a cushion that will fit in that setting (I think).
     
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  9. tyty333
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  10. pearaffair
    Ideal_Rock

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    by pearaffair » Dec 12, 2018
    Op you seem very loyal to this seller. I think it’s clouding your judgement. Good luck though!
     
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  11. Corely
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    by Corely » Dec 12, 2018
    Wow very informative. Thank you. Ill check out what he has on Sunday and if nothing is spectacular.. which it very well might not be then Ill go the refund route. As for loyalty to the guy and him clouding my judgement from the other post. I have lots of time on my hands out here and he has done me well in the past with non diamonds so I will give him a few days as a show of faith. If he comes through then Ill keep buying from him. And he wasn't upset or anything like that if I return it I return it. He just wanted me to know that he was not knowingly on purpose tyring to scam me hence the scales and diamond tester. He gets it and he knows he is looking at a return in a few days if he cant do better. Thanks
     
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  12. Matilda
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Matilda » Dec 12, 2018
    Please also make sure you check if the diamond he brings has been enhanced in any way. Testing as diamond is not enough really. Also take a look at rarecaret.com for price references even if not for options to buy
     
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  13. PreRaphaelite
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    by PreRaphaelite » Dec 12, 2018
    It’s kind of you to give him a chance to do better but unless it has a GIA cert, I’d keep my money if I were you because clarity enhancement is rampant. Good luck to you and best wishes.
     
  14. TreeScientist
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    by TreeScientist » Dec 12, 2018
    Yeah, I agree the Paris proposal would normally be more romantic. But riots do tend to, you know, kill the mood and all... :mrgreen: Guess you'll need to see how the France situation plays out over the coming days.

    Regarding Christmas markets in Oslo: We do have them, but they're not as big of a "thing" as they are in Germany. The main Christmas market between Oslo Central station and Nationaltheatret is quite nice though. Has a bunch of play areas and rides for the kids. Nice classical Norwegian Christmas food. Concerts and activities on the weekends. You know, all of the usual European Christmas market stuff. But, just like every other activity in Oslo, the prices are very high. For example, when I was living in Germany, you could go to a Christmas market and get a cup of the hot spiced wine (glühwein in German) for 3-4 Euro. At the Oslo Christmas market, it's the equivalent of about 12 Euro for a small cup of hot wine. The first time I went to the Christmas market here and saw the prices I said aloud "F$&#! I'm not paying 120 Krone for a .3L cup of hot sugar wine!"

    ...And so now I partake in the Christmas market festivities sober. :mrgreen: Still quite fun though.
     
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  15. metall
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by metall » Dec 12, 2018
    Wow! I've just read all three posts related to this ring and I have to say that this is one Heck of an engagement story to tell your kids later on!

    I'm so happy to see that you've "seen the light" a little bit and have started the process of returning this ring. Honestly, with the huge red flags that the current ring has brought up (grading report with dimensions that couldn't physically be 3ct, the color of the stone being grossly misrepresented, @whitewave's observation of the deep pavillion not being what is reported on the report, the too good to be true pricing, the poorly executed setting) I am surprised that you're willing to stick with this vendor.

    From my calculations, your 30 day money back guarantee card will be nearly invalid (if not invalid) by the time you get back from Paris, having proposed to your lady love. The 30 days probably started running the second you paid for the ring, which looks to be sometime before December 9th - Christmas will be ~16 days from your purchase date. That's already over half your return period. I don't think that exchanging the stone will actually extend your return window. . .so it seems all the vendor is doing is stalling.

    Please Please Please ask him to give you your full refund NOW and if he is able to bring you something later on, you will pay for it then. If he produces something beautiful and worthy of your money (which I doubt) GREAT, he gets that 10K back from you. If not, it's no great loss to him as he will most likely go dupe someone else...BUT the BEST part is YOU have YOUR money back.
     
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  16. LinSF
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    by LinSF » Dec 12, 2018
    @Corely I think you *might* be wasting your time having him look for other stones. It sounds like you are set on the setting which is already made. If he looks for a 3 carat, the dimensions are not what that setting was intended for. A 3 carat spread is much bigger than what that setting can hold. If you have not already discussed with him, make sure he is looking for stones that will fit in that setting. As you've been told already, it's probably a stone with a lower carat weight if cut more "ideal". If you are set on a carat weight number then the stone and the setting will never add up!
     
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  17. Corely
    Rough_Rock

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    by Corely » Dec 12, 2018
    Yes It is most likely getting refunded.. its kind of a cultural thing out here to. Gotta give him a chance to save face and do everything he can. He even insisted I take a video with my phone of him saying inthe camera that if he does not get me a better stone he will refund the money no problem. This money doesn't go into this guys pocket directly... there are a bunch of pieces and family members and all kinds of things just to be allowed to sell here. Not to mention 2 hrs both in and out of base through security checkpoints each day. Ill give him his shot. Again, he doesn't even have to be there to get the refund. I can go to the main BX office and get the refund at any time. He knows what I'm expecting so well so what he can do. If not it will be no hard feelings to get the refund.... PLUS its a reputation thing. He gives me what I'm looking for and he knows other people will shop from him. He doesn't he knows his reputation will take a big hit with A LOT of people out here and it could actually shut him down. Which of course I don't want, but I'm not settling for crap either.
     
  18. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LLJsmom » Dec 12, 2018
    I really respect how you’re handling this. I suggest that you tel him you will takenyoru fiancé with iou to choose a ring so he doesn’t feel like you are rejecting his stone. But don’t let him talk or guilt you into keeping a ring that he secretly did a huge happy dance when he got off his hands.
     
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  19. amoline
    Shiny_Rock

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    by amoline » Dec 12, 2018
    I like LLJ's suggestion. -- I feel in this circumstance a little "white lie" may not be the worst option. Simply tell him that you need to have your SO with you to look at the ring, for such a high value item. In fact, that's not really a white lie either.

    I do however agree that you should press a little harder on at least receiving the refund now - and in turn give him your promise that you'd be happy to purchase from him again, if he well and truly does come up with something that you're interested in and is a good value. He may be a decent guy, or he may not be -- but at least that removes ALL the financial pressures from both sides while you continue to browse.

    I can only speak for myself, of course, but I really wanted to clarify that everyone getting a bit jumpy about the refund I imagine comes from our own paranoia or past burned experiences with jewelry. I know I certainly have been burned on jewelry before I found PS, so everyone is just trying to save you from making the same mistakes that lots of us already have. :))
     
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  20. diamondseeker2006
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by diamondseeker2006 » Dec 12, 2018
    Corely, he isn't going to offer you a selection of GIA graded diamonds. You are shopping in the worst possible place. How are you going to have any idea of whether what he offers you is good or not? You can't know, so that is what makes GIA grading essential. He could offer you a diamond worse than this one and you won't know! I think you should tell him whatever you think is best, but certainly tell him that you are not ready to buy a diamond from him at this time.
     
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  21. Corely
    Rough_Rock

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    by Corely » Dec 12, 2018
    He actually had a handful of GIA diamonds in his shop but they were marquis cuts. I saw the GIA certs with the bar codes and the numbers. He said he will ask around downtown Kabul and everywhere all the way down to India where they do the manufacturing of the rings. The way this is going to work. Is he is going to email me pics of the stones and certs before I go to look at them on SAT. If he actually can provide any GIA certs to the stones (which is a long shot to procure them in 4 days out here) I will have those numbers looked up in the database and make sure they are legit before going to see them in person. I have to go down there in person for the refund anyway. If he doesn't have anything worthwhile or cant find anything at all.. refund. Just giving him a chance I have some time to burn and I'm well within the return policy window. I bought the thing on Dec 9th only 3 days ago.

    As for significant other being with me to choose.. Well.. Umm I don't know how to politically correctly say this but that would do nothing for me out here but weaken my stance. Not my point of view at all... but the general local populous here kinda has the mentality that the male decides everything. I bought our her daughter a traditional Afghan dress one time out here and the guy I bought it from said.. OK now what do you want to get for your son. I told him I don't have a son.... then get a 10 min lecture how I need to keep trying till I have a son an males and blah blah stuff.. didn't even bother telling him the little girl isn't even biologically mine. Long story short.. the significant other deciding with me will probly be what happens once we are on RR together.. however the vendor isn't going to know that. Just gonna tell him to keep trying and notify me down the line of anything spectacular that comes into his shop. I pop in there every few months anyway and end up walking out with some kind of gem stone jewelry or ear rings or jade carvings or what not... he usually ends up giving me some free stuff for the little girl too each time even if I don't buy anything. We have had a good relationship thus far. And getting the refund shouldn't effect that too much.
     
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  22. Bonfire
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Bonfire » Dec 12, 2018
    I’m keeping my fingers crossed Corely, but call me skeptical. I understand why you think you should handle this the way you are, but your vendor is not going to let you go easily and I’m doubtful he can procure something much better for you. Good luck to you!
     
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  23. kmoro
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    by kmoro » Dec 12, 2018
    My brother spent 15 years in the Middle East ... he said the business culture is different ... big points for scamming as it’s considered the customers’ faults and the seller’s genius. It’s not really a rip off because there is nothing forcing the customer to buy. I would say that this seller is genius. And there is nothing wrong with this attitude, imo - cultural differences exist ... as long as a person is aware, they can still do business successfully.
    I have to add a disclaimer that this is second hand opinion from my brother, and I have zero direct experience. He did buy hundreds of thousands of dollars in jewelry there for my sister-in-law, so had quite a few jewelry transactions. Many skilled jewelers are in the area - there is great wealth (maybe not in Afghanistan). However, his business practice assessment could be completely wrong ... just keep in mind not all people have the same view of ethical business.
     
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  24. TreeScientist
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    by TreeScientist » Dec 12, 2018
    Same goes for SE Asia. Not scamming per-say, as they won't ever directly lie to you about something or try to deceive you. That would be dishonorable. But they will most definitely try to overcharge you for everything, and they take great pleasure in gloating about how much they are able to overcharge foreigners. They see nothing wrong with this. Bargaining is part of business there, and if they can get a certain amount of money out of you for an item, well, that is a testament to them as a good businessman/woman.

    The few times I've gone out in Vietnam on my own without my fiance, I pretty much always get overcharged for things. I honestly don't mind that much, and I don't even try to bargain at all unless I'm being GROSSLY overcharged. I mean, if they really want that extra dollar out of me, then they can have it. But it's amazing how many of them will start gloating and telling their street vendor pals "Look how much I just charged this foreigner for Gỏi cuốn!!!" while you're still standing right in front of them. They think that every foreigner, if they do speak Vietnamese at all, only knows the words "I want that" and "How much?"

    Little do they know that I speak more than just a little bit of Vietnamese, and that I am perfectly able to understand that they are talking about me right in front of my face. You should've seen the looks on their faces when I said to them in Vietnamese as I'm walking away "It's not nice to make fun of customers in front of them." ;-)
     
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  25. Bron357
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Bron357 » Dec 12, 2018
    Hi Corley, I’m so glad you are looking to get a refund.
    The truth is 99% of consumers know nothing about diamonds and trust their seller. However a sellers experience is going to be tempered by what gemstones they get exposed to and what customers are usually happy with. You can be kind and tell your seller you have a family friend who is a gemologist and they explained more about diamonds to you. The main thing Is now you realize that the size looks smaller than expected because it’s a different type of cutting. And the ring sits much too high and that can’t be changed because the diamond has a big underneath. You didn’t know this before. And you fiancé to be will be upset if it doesn’t look the right size and is too high up on her finger. Saves him face.
    Most people don’t have any idea how crucial cut is to a diamonds performance, a diamond sparkles best when cut properly and that’s all to do with angles.
    I ran your diamonds numbers through a calculator and because the diamonds depth must be around 6.8 mm to a 7.35 width (to get the 3.02 carat) the % proportion (depth to width) is over 90%. A well cut princess diamond should be under 74%, preferably 72%. So you can see how out of proportion for great sparkle your diamond really is.
    And the other issue is size, you bought and paid for a 3.02 carat diamond BUT it only looks like 1.9 carats to anyone looking at it!
    The diamond you were sold fits the two major criteria that many new diamond buyers know of - size and price but there’s soooooo much more.
    You want “spread” ie visual appearance that matches carat weight.
    You want excellent cutting so the diamond does all the sparkling you are paying huge money for (otherwise why not save your money and get a white sapphire or white topaz - both lovely gems but they don’t do diamond sparkle).
    You can have flaws as long as they are hard to see and not carbon flecks and you can have “lower” colour ie more yellow as long as your fiancée is happy with a diamond “less white”.
    I love the idea of a Cartier Triology ring for a proposal ring representing the three of you in your family forever linked together.
    Then with PS help we will help you find the diamond that knocks everyone socks off that your beautiful fiancée will adore.
     
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  26. Corely
    Rough_Rock

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    by Corely » Dec 12, 2018
    Very great information... Thanks so much. My plan B here when I do the refund (assuming he cant provide better which I'm sure he cant) Is the Cartier shop at CDG Airport. They will be in Paris a day before me and I am meeting them there so wont have any time to shop alone and luckily there is a Cartier inside the airport. The Trinity ring is cool but she doesn't do any yellow gold colors.. or green colors.. she is Hispanic and swears it makes her skin look green.. so she doesn't go for that haha. Cartier has its 1895 platinum wedding band for $1760 that has three tiny diamonds in it.. I like the idea that they could represent our family of three that someone suggested for the Trinity. That could be the wedding band if she wants.. but at least its something to propose with in Paris and then spend the rest of the trip discussing and looking at other diamonds. Hopefully they carry it at the airport and it isn't pirce marked up for being at the airport. Thanks so much everyone Ill keep you all posted. Meeting vendor on Sunday.
    https://www.cartier.com/en-us/colle...amond-jewelry/b4058300-1895-wedding-band.html
     
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  27. amoline
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    by amoline » Dec 12, 2018
    Keep us all updated, definitely! I'm too invested, now, not to see how this story ends! :) Fingers crossed for you, Corely.
     
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  28. PreRaphaelite
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    by PreRaphaelite » Dec 12, 2018
    Two questions: do you know her ring size in European measurement, e.g., size 58 etc, and could you contact the store at Rue de la Paix to work closely with their manager to make sure the ring you pick out for her is waiting for you at the airport!
     
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  29. Bron357
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    by Bron357 » Dec 12, 2018
    Yay to “team Corley” :appl::appl::appl:
    Yes yes yes to the 3 diamond Cartier ring. It sounds totally perfect and can be either her wedding ring or glamorous right hand band ring.
    Everyone knows and loves Cartier.
    Tell your gem guy “sorry but I have do right by the missus or I’ll be in trouble” and buy a few more Tanzanite from him to ease his pain.
    Funny thing is that a internet search brought up another US serviceman in in Afghanistan (2014) asking on a gemologist forum about the quality of diamonds from the local bazaar that came with reports from, you guessed it, Jaipur Gemmological lab. The overwhelming replies were basically “not worth the paper it’s written on, likely to be clarity enhanced and definitely not the place or venue for a novice to be buying diamonds.
    We here at Pricescope aren’t snobs ie “must be D colour and VVS clarity”, many of us have lower graded diamonds which we love to bits BUT we paid a fair price for those less than perfect diamonds.
    And that’s the point here, that diamond simply wasn’t good value at $9,000 odd dollars, that ring was awful quality workmanship and we want you to have the BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK.
    That’s all.
     
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  30. kmoro
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    by kmoro » Dec 12, 2018
    Yup.

    And if can add one last thing (I really need to leave poor OP alone as he must be sick of me, lol)...

    If I was in love with a Chanel purse but could not afford it, I would prefer a high quality no-name to a bad knock-off....:shifty:

    Really wishing you the best, Corely - I’ll leave you to the other fine folks now :wavey:
     

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