shape
carat
color
clarity

Bought a ring and rock! Proposal time

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Corely, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    Ok I pulled the trigger and hope I didn’t screw up. What do you guys think? 3.01 princess cut center diamond H color SI1 rating. 45 total diamonds in white gold got the purchase price down to $9,800. He wanted $16k originally purchased from a vendor I trust and have bought from many times in Afghanistan ring was made in India never bought diamonds f 17CE5687-A300-411D-8CD6-C9DD38CADF01.jpeg rom him before usually tanzanite that has appraised well this is for a proposal coming up 3C159523-259E-41CC-B7D2-6F9B9F17D9BA.jpeg very soon took months to find the right stones and make this ring came out pretty well I think any idea what this would appraise for back in the states D13BDF20-A0DA-4FF8-87B5-03F1CFA7F884.jpeg ? I know it’s hard based on pictures just hoping I didn’t get ripped off at $9800 I know it’s not perfect for sure am SI has some inclusions but I think the price to value ratio is good I plan on having it appraised and sent for a real certification once I home thoughts? Thanks everyone 41919532-2824-422B-9D76-E0E2F5A2FC67.png 571B6924-AE13-4D8E-9BE8-8EB6AF4E1161.png
     
  2. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    6,807
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Dec 9, 2018
    I realize you don't want to hear this, and I hate to be the one to say it, but yes I think you got ripped off. That certificate is meaningless because it isn't from any trusted lab. Yes it's a large stone, but it's certainly not I color (from the pics), and likely is very poorly cut.

    The setting has melee stones that are also likely of poor quality, and won't last (e.g. will fall out), or won't be lively.

    I totally understand the difficulty of trying to buy something while deployed, but I think you can get something so much nicer for your budget. Remember that cut is what makes diamonds look alive. A larger stone isn't always better.
     
    wander, frogplus, Nitedula and 5 others like this.
  3. peacechick
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,088
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    by peacechick » Dec 9, 2018
    I remember on your old thread that people warned you that this diamond was a gamble as it looked yellow and its grading may not be reliable. I don’t know much about diamonds but it does look more yellow than an I, which should look pretty white. The lighting doesn’t help, perhaps you should take the photos out in daylight?

    At this point though, I feel like you have had the opportunity to go another route but you went with this one. You seem to be happy with the end result and excited to propose. So why read any more feedback? I’m sure your girlfriend will be happy that you procured the diamond and had the ring made, and that shows how much you love her. Ultimately, it’s a symbol and not something that needs to have investment value.
     
    UserError, frogplus, Nitedula and 9 others like this.
  4. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    I appreciate yalls input for sure. And I have a backup plan as well. This vendor is backed by the US company that allows him to sell to us. If for any reason I want a refund I can get a refund at any time. This will for sure get appraised when it gets to the states and if it is not worth more than what I paid then it is coming back hands down. I was under a time crunch and not going back stateside anytime soon and do not want to risk mailing anything of that value out here. Plus prices in Europe would be worse than the states where we are going.. so trying to keep the surprise element of the proposal. I know I might hear things I don't want to hear but I welcome any feedback or suggestions. The lighting is pretty bad in that room. As for getting ripped off.. I do have the refund protections and I have bought probly 20 pieces of jewelry from this same guy through the past couple years. No diamonds mainly gemstones and Tanzanite and some Jade. But every single thing I have purchased appraised for much more in the states. I am hoping this does as well. If it doesn't then I'm taking it back for sure. As for the design of the ring do you think the main stone is set to high? That's what I am concerned with the most.. other than the actual value of course. If the stones are worth it we may have the entire thing extracted melted down and re set in a more reliable ring if the appraisal comes back and says that the integrity of the settings is unreliable to hold the diamonds in place. If I do get burnt on this hopefully it wont be by much... and if so.. its going back. Thanks everyone.
     
  5. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    6,807
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Dec 9, 2018
    Just an FYI about appraisals. They aren't accurate in terms of value, and are often incredibly inflated. So you don't want an appraisal based on this innacurate paperwork. What you want is to send the piece to a reputable lab (GIA/AGS), and see if they can accurately grade the center Stone. THEN you want to check comparison pricing online to check if what you got was worth the price. Appraisals ccoming back higher than purchase price really doesn't mean anything.
     
  6. Matilda
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    467
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2018
    by Matilda » Dec 9, 2018
    The above advice is excellent in my opinion. Honestly I’m concerned it’s not simply a lower color diamond but that it’s not a diamond at all or clarity enhanced etc at best. As @lovedogs said I’d send it ASAP to GIA or AGS
     
    Nitedula, lovedogs, Corely and 2 others like this.
  7. Lula
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    4,511
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    by Lula » Dec 9, 2018
    The lighting is not good and the paperwork has no numbers on it, so it's really difficult for me to give you any useful feedback. Maybe post some additional photos of the ring in brighter, natural light.
     
    Nitedula and Corely like this.
  8. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    Thanks guys... Oh yes I plan on sending it to GIA or AGS asap. I am very confident it is real. We used a diamond tester on it and this vendor has always come through for me over the past two years. I mean worst case scenario here... If it is say SI2 and a K or L in color is less than $10k still a really bad deal for this entire ring?... Main stone and the 44 other small diamonds and 14k white gold custom made job? Its modeled after a Ring she saw in Honduras years ago that she fell in love with.. and I gotta say they nailed the execution of getting the molding and look right based on the pictures I sent them. I'm confident she will like the ring.. I'm fairly confident to have one re made to look exactly like this in the states would cost more than I paid for it. I am anxious to see what AGS or GIA say about it. I'm just hoping at the end of the day its worth more than $10k. If it is then I will be satisfied. If its not or just marginally more than that.. then Ill be upset. Pretty confident after the diamond testing and the good reputation of the vendor and personal successes I have had with him that they are real and not color enhanced at all. I mean if they were color enhanced I doubt it would have the yellow tint (which in person does not look bad at all only in photographs) and wouldn't have all the inclusions. I understand I could get a better quality stone for the same price.. but with this particular lady size does matter and she has always liked large loud get attention pieces of jewelry. Thanks for all the input and anything else is welcome.
     
  9. kmoro
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    878
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2018
    by kmoro » Dec 9, 2018
    I kind of feel for you ... I mean, you have been all excited and looking for confirmation that you got a good deal, but no one here can know for sure. We can vent our doubts about the lab or the jeweler.. but at the end of the day, don’t let anyone rain on your parade - if you are confident the diamonds are natural and real, the worst case scenario is that you overpaid, and that’s not the end of the world, and it may not even be the case.
    Certainly other places in the world have skilled jewelers. I’m looking forward to hearing what the US apprisal comes in at ... fair market value, not inflated for insurance purposes (standard is 1.6 x market value).
    If size matters most to your fiancée, I would say that you hit the mark, and I would also offer my guess that it would cost more than $10000 in the US too. Eternity bands with 3 carat total weight melee can cost that much or more.
    My two cents.
    :wavey:
     
    Siyah, acv123, junhox212 and 6 others like this.
  10. rainydaze
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,593
    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    by rainydaze » Dec 9, 2018
    Yes, I do think it is set too high. One bump or whack and she might have a broken diamond on her hands. Princesses are especially vulnerable already. I would say lower it as much as possible, and also have your jeweler make sure the prongs are as smooth and contoured to the stone as well. I see a fuzz clinging to the prongs (last pic, north prong) which tells me they are snagging and pulling. With only four prongs, if one catches on something and pulls away, you also have a high risk of losing the stone.
     
    Nitedula, GliderPoss, kipari and 2 others like this.
  11. kgizo
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,252
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    by kgizo » Dec 9, 2018
    The measurements on the report don’t equate to a 3ct diamond. Since you said you plan to send it to GIA do that first, then come back with the report. Only a fortune teller can tell you what it is worth without accurate carat, color, clarity...
    08B9203A-0122-4520-A1AD-BD0F586B24C6.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  12. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    6,807
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Dec 9, 2018
    Again, not trying to rain on your parade, but you wouldnt know if it was clarity enhanced, nor would you know if it's a moissanite or other sim. All test as diamond on a diamond tester. Clarity enhanced stones are a nightmare and largely considered worthless. That's my guess about what he sold you, unfortunately. And the fact that the measurements don't actually add up to 3cts is a massive red flag.
     
  13. kmoro
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    878
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2018
    by kmoro » Dec 9, 2018
    Ok geez well this is highly suspicious and a good catch by kgizo ...

    I want to change my answer, lol.

    That right there would have me running for the refund, not sending it off to anywhere.
    Unfortunately, the best scammers will complete a few honest deals to gain trust before they actually rip you off.
     
    gm89uk, wander, Nitedula and 4 others like this.
  14. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018

    This is very interesting and concerning. He weighed it in front of me as a loose diamond and I saw the carat weight and the zeroed scale as 3.01. I most certainly will investigate this further. If it does come back after appraisal as less than 3.01 carat that is enough to get a full refund no questions asked by the sponsor of the vendor. Just out of curiosity where did the 4.85mm come from? The last multiplier in the equation. I see the 7.35 and the 4.31. I'm obviously not versed in measuring the surface area to get carat weight amount. This is a great flag though and I'm glad you pointed it out to me.
     
  15. rainydaze
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    2,593
    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    by rainydaze » Dec 9, 2018
    So there is something called 'spread'. This refers to the face-up dimensions of the stone. The diamond could in fact *weigh* 3.01 carats, however if it does, it is cut very, very deep with much of that weight on the underside where it cannot be appreciated. Being cut deep also affects the performance of the diamond (scintillation, fire, brilliance). It will have less of these, have dead spots, etc.

    A 3.01 carat princess that is well cut should have a spread of 8.0mm, not 7.34. So while your FI can *say* she has a 3ct, it *looks* like a 2.25ct.
     
  16. kgizo
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,252
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    by kgizo » Dec 9, 2018
    As rainydaze pointed out, a 3ct would normally be around 8mm and 5.65mm deep so I thought your report (7.35 x 4.31) was odd. I did a quick search and could not find anything at 7.35mm cut as shallow as yours. The example I found of 7.35 x 4.85 is actually deeper than yours so in theory should weigh more, but it is only 2.32ct. Either the weight or measurements is wrong in your report; or it isn’t a diamond. All are critical mistakes and I wouldn’t trust that “lab” at all.
     
    Nitedula, kindred and lovedogs like this.
  17. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    6,807
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Dec 9, 2018
    This is the Crux of the issue. Nothing in the report makes sense or is trustworthy. So I would return and get your hard earned $$ back!
     
    Morenita21, kindred and whitewave like this.
  18. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    OK.. hangin on by any thread I can here haha. I have gone to multiple diamond weight calculator sites IE: Blue Nile, WP Diamonds and some more. Then looked up multiple appraisal sheets on their websites and entered the dimensions on the weight calculators.. and I have yet to find a match to any of them. Some are really close and some are way off from what the major retailer websites are advertising their appraisal sheets and carat weights to be. Yet you do bring up a great point and that is something I am going to scrutinized when I get this thing appraised and could very well be what I need to get a refund if it comes to that. I am assuming that the 7.35mm is just to be used twice because its square. I am not putting much of any value to that Jauipur Geological cert.. its most likely useless. I did see him weigh the thing on a zeroed scale though. I hope I'm not crying after this thing gets sent out to GIA/AGS. Thanks again
     
    Nitedula and lovedogs like this.
  19. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    I'm gong to lean toward the side of useless piece of paper on that geo report (hopefully not just with false hope). This guy knows better than to attempt to sell fake stuff.. but you never know. That sheet did not come with the stone originally. Only after it was sent to the shop that manufactured the ring setting in India did it come back with a certificate. The stones were looked at first here in Afghanistan. I like the guy and have purchased much from him and so have many friends. But make no mistake if it comes back a fake or of less value or size than advertised its going back and he will be reported and possibly banned from selling to use. Its the guys livelihood out here so I doubt that is the case. I bought at least 4 different tanzanite stones from him that all appraised for 3X as much as what I paid for them back in the states. Not to say that I'm not nervous about the whole thing.
     
  20. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    Proposal idea:

    On a different note.. What do you guys think of my proposal idea? I haven't really run it past anyone so.. why not here.

    Have any of you heard of L'aperouse? http://www.laperouse.com/en/crt/bar.html

    It is a restaurant in Paris. We are going there soon for RR. Now me and my GF have been together for six years, we live together and she has a 10 year old daughter I have known since she was three. I am not one for cliché Eiffle proposals or anything that makes a public spectacle... She would not be happy about that. But I found this place.

    I am kind of a history buff and like to do things a bit differently. This L'aperouse restaurant has been a restaurant in Paris since 1766. It is famous for a number of reasons. Fine dinning insanely expensive French food is just one of them. So back in the artistic renaissance days of Paris all the social elite hung out there. Victor Hugo was a regular and all the poets and artists. What makes this place super famous are the mirrors in the place. Most of the décor is original to the time and the mirrors are the fun part.

    If you look at them they are super scratched up and etched. So back in the day the social elite would court the high society women of Paris there (some of which were paid for laides of the night.. it is Paris) And those men would offer poems, money, songs, devotion.... and jewelry to these high society women... The Mirrors are famous because those women would "scratch" the diamonds and gems on the mirrors there to see if they were real and their courting men were not actually broke or pulling a fast one on them. Hence the famous etched mirrors/ high class brothel restaurant of L'aperouse.

    I was thinking of telling her this story at the restaurant and then saying something like "try this one out".. and then the whole marry me I love you spiel... I think its kinda unique/quirky and cool. Has a fun story and history plus its a Paris proposal at a place most people have never heard of and avoids crowds and cheesy cliché eiffle tower proposals. Thoughts???
     
    gm89uk, ice empress, luvsdmb and 5 others like this.
  21. kgizo
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,252
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    by kgizo » Dec 9, 2018
    Your guy may not be trying to scam you - he may have been fooled as well. It rarely happens but it does happen. He may 100% trust his vendor and believe it is a 3.01ct diamond but the only way to know for sure is, as was mentioned above by another PSer, GIA or AGS. You seem attached to this stone so I hope everything comes out in your favor.
     
    lovedogs and Corely like this.
  22. kgizo
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,252
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    by kgizo » Dec 9, 2018
    Your proposal idea is lovely and I expect she will be thrilled. Well done!
     
    luvsdmb, Nitedula, GliderPoss and 2 others like this.
  23. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    Thank you.. been a nervous wreck the past few weeks.. with this ring and diamond stuff.. and ya now Paris rioting and on fire at the moment.. Plans are getting skewed all over the place. Hopefully Paris chills out and is safe to travel to. I leave in 10 days. Hence the urgency to get the ring.
     
    Sfadman likes this.
  24. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    6,568
    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    by whitewave » Dec 9, 2018
    I estimate (just my opinion) that the color is N-P. Certainly not an I.

    Good luck
     
    Matilda, quaddio and lovedogs like this.
  25. Matilda
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    467
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2018
    by Matilda » Dec 9, 2018
    I think thats lovely!!! good luck I am sure she will be very happy!!

    on a separate note, when will you be able to send the stone to GIA/AGS?
     
  26. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    Once she is back home. Probly mid January
     
  27. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    Wow.. you think its that bad? The lighting in there is rough. In person its not that bad at all. I was estimating at the very worst it was J-k.
     
  28. Jimmianne
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,215
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2013
    by Jimmianne » Dec 9, 2018
    I leave for there on Friday and think we are OK if we stay alert and stay out of certain areas.
    Reading this thread I am reminded of what brought me to PS in the first place. i bought a diamond, came to PS for opinions, and that is how I got my education. Wishing you all the best in all things! : )
     
  29. Corely
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    51
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by Corely » Dec 9, 2018
    Haha.. nice.. How did those opinions work out in comparison to the stone you bought? As for Paris. We are staying at Melia in La Defense hoping its clear of all the chaos. Really hoping the chaos is completely done with by then really. Looks like just around the Champs Elysees is where one needs to avoid. But if all the cool tourist things are closed that kind of kills the mood. If we go and protests are scheduled for that Saturday we may take a train to Lyon or just do Versailles that day. Stay safe good luck on your travels.
     
  30. Matilda
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    467
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2018
    by Matilda » Dec 9, 2018
    Versailles is really lovely! I definitely recommend!
     
    Corely likes this.

Share This Page