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both ACA E VS1 but big price difference?

cereal_diamond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
49
Hi everybody,

was doing a little browsing and then noticed these 2 stones, which are not far off in size and yet they have a big difference in price. Any idea why? I tried running the HCA scores as well but I don't really understand why. Any ideas?

1.115 ct E VS1 A CUT ABOVE $14,827.00 HCA1.2
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2581074.htm

HCA1.2
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good

AGS-104049269002
Depth % 61.4
Table % 56.5
Crown Angle 34.8
Star 54.0
Pavilion Angle 40.7
Crown % 15.0
Lower Girdle % 76.0
Measurements 6.65x6.68x4.09
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible
Girdle Thin to Medium Faceted


1.07 ct E VS1 A CUT ABOVE $18,042.00
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2676042.htm

HCA 1.4
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good

AGS-104052819009
Depth % 61.0
Table % 56.2
Crown Angle 34.8
Star 53.0
Pavilion Angle 40.8
Crown % 15.1
Lower Girdle % 77.0
Measurements 6.60x6.62x4.04
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible
Girdle Thin to Medium Faceted
 

Mayk

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
4,607
I am a newbie but guessing the certificate date. The less expensive has a January 11 date. With the rise is diamond prices the diamond with a July '11 certificate is much more!
 

centralsquare

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,201
Interesting...I feel like I've heard about hat a lot more since prices have increased so much so it probably has to do with when that came into their inventory relative to price increases
 

cereal_diamond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
49
Thanks for all your thoughts, I've emailed whiteflash and hope to share the info soon enough :) it is quite startling how much prices have increased over the past few months especially when you consider the actual residual value of a diamond compared to say gold. Anyway 18k for E VS1 does sound a little steep so we'll see what the folks at WF have to say on this one =)
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
I would definitely put those on hold! and I see no reason not to pick the 1.115...it looks great!
 

CedarRapids

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
146
Although this not appear to be the case for the two diamonds you list, in general, it is good to note that Whiteflash and other companies list diamonds in their inventory which they actually do not own.

I recently bought a diamond owned by James Allen (I'm pretty sure) but listed (same AGS cert) with five other vendors, all with different prices. The companies that don't actually own a particular diamond can't control the price as much.

Here's an interesting article discussing the recent price increases on Tiffany vs. Blue Nile.

http://torontostar.morningstar.ca/globalhome/industry/news.asp?articleid=392475

Basically, how a company decides to price their existing inventory in the midst of increasing prices depends on their business model. A company like Blue Nile does not actually own their inventory (drop shippers), thus their prices are very quickly influenced by market forces. A company like Tiffany which has lots of brand appeal can choose for themselves what to do with the prices on their inventory despite what is dictated by the market. Tiffany as a brand does not want huge fluctuation in their prices (their prices are already higher, too).

On BN, one thing I do is add particular diamonds at different price points on my wish list and make note of the prices. Over time, some diamonds will get sold. Among the ones that don't, the prices change and I can see the new prices on my wishlist.

The other day, a 14K diamond in the morning increased by $75 by the evening.

Anyway, that's my digression of the day.....
 

cereal_diamond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
49
slg47|1315149974|3009585 said:
I would definitely put those on hold! and I see no reason not to pick the 1.115...it looks great!
Hehe I wish I had enuf disposable income to indulge but the next one will have to wait a little and ideally I want to go up in size ;))

So back to the initial post. looks like MayK is right (or I'm misunderstanding their reply) although it still doesn't make much sense to me... I believe regardless of when the diamonds were graded they should follow the actual market rate, oh well if that's the answer they're giving me so be it :))

"Diamond prices have been rising over the last year . You will benefit from selecting this diamond based on our purchase price back in early January. Take a look at the certs and you will see why there is such a delta between these two diamonds."

Cedar your theory sounds very plausible but these diamonds are meant to be in house and available immediately... so not sure but it would make sense.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Yo uwill see deals like this on many vendor sites for "older" stock. Maybe they want to mov eit? I don't know. But I have seen similar on GOG and BGD stock, to name a couple, on stones that have been sitting around a while.
 

Phoenix

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
9,364
CedarRapids|1315151238|3009592 said:
Although this not appear to be the case for the two diamonds you list, in general, it is good to note that Whiteflash and other companies list diamonds in their inventory which they actually do not own.

I recently bought a diamond owned by James Allen (I'm pretty sure) but listed (same AGS cert) with five other vendors, all with different prices. The companies that don't actually own a particular diamond can't control the price as much.

Here's an interesting article discussing the recent price increases on Tiffany vs. Blue Nile.

http://torontostar.morningstar.ca/globalhome/industry/news.asp?articleid=392475

Basically, how a company decides to price their existing inventory in the midst of increasing prices depends on their business model. A company like Blue Nile does not actually own their inventory (drop shippers), thus their prices are very quickly influenced by market forces. A company like Tiffany which has lots of brand appeal can choose for themselves what to do with the prices on their inventory despite what is dictated by the market. Tiffany as a brand does not want huge fluctuation in their prices (their prices are already higher, too).

On BN, one thing I do is add particular diamonds at different price points on my wish list and make note of the prices. Over time, some diamonds will get sold. Among the ones that don't, the prices change and I can see the new prices on my wishlist.

The other day, a 14K diamond in the morning increased by $75 by the evening.

Anyway, that's my digression of the day.....

That's been my experience and generally very much what I've been told too. I imagine Tiffny (being the all-might Tiff) has much more power over pricing (and can offer more consistent pricing over their goods, but of course to a certain degree subject to market forces) than smaller internet vendors, whose prices are on the whole dictated by the cutters and again market forces. I remember one specific incidence not too long ago, whereby I was looking at 3ct F VS2 (was thinking of buying a match for my existing stone, to make into big earrings), and prices for similar stones to mine of those specs varied from the late $80's to $112k. Now, that's a HUGE difference, and the vendor told me there was nothing he could do abt that. He said that's what the cutters want, and there no real/ good reason for such a large discrepancy.

Also, someone mentioned the pricier stone being more expensive, due to a more recent date on the cert. I've seen that too. Though of course, any smart vendors (or those that have control over the own inventory) would at least try to apply the same or consistent increases (% wise or otherise the same percentages across thes same group, say anything under 1ct, underthing over 1.5ct, anything over 2ct and etc. with each one of the carat jump necessitated by a larger and larger % increases) across the board, to all their own stones.

Not sure if all this rambling is making any sense, ha ha! :wink2:
 

CedarRapids

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
146
I should add that the 'deal' described by the OP is consistent with the 'deal' I got a couple of weeks ago. The price was suspiciously lower than expected (about 8-12% lower). Interestingly, the AGS report was from 2010. I bought it just a week before prices overall went up a smidge.
 

InnaR

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
328
I upgraded to 1.81 D SI1 GIA Excellent Cut from Whiteflash Premium selection in June, 2011. Stone was listed for 16,800 while comparable stones were listed above $20,000. I think the reason was that mine had certificate dated back to November 2008 and probably was somebodies returned or upgrade stone. Anyway, the closest match i found now is their Virtual selection 1.7 D SI1 GIA Ex for 20,5000.
So I guess the certificate date theory does make sense.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,946
I reeeeeeeeally doubt Whiteflash or any diamond vendor prices "returned stones" lower.

If they are not perfect they either not take them back or get them re polished and send it in for a new grading report.
If they are perfect, why would they sell them cheaper?
Even new diamonds are billions of years old.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,121
Sometimes it is a mistake. The last time I called and inquired about an item whose price didn't make sense compared to another similar item, I was told that prices had increased and they had missed that item, so the price went up immediately! ;( (This was another popular vendor here.)
 
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