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Blue Fluorescence in Diamonds

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michaelgem

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"I would say to be on the safe side, take GIA''s teaching that a diamond begins to ''draw color'' at G. If a VSB D color diamond stays in the D-F range that GIA calls colorless, it is safe to say it qualifies as blue-white.
If, as the more common VSB diamonds do, the color absent fluorescent stimulation drops three or more grades, the stone clearly does not qualify as blue-white. At some point (you decide) it is the ''false color'' diamond well known in the diamond trade going back before the turn of the 20th century." Michael D Cowing


Michael, I just revisited this and it should have an additional qualification - should the Fluorescence be Strong, Very Strong only, or is Medium also acceptable? Garry Holloway



Potentially, diamonds of Medium, Strong or Very Strong Blue can be blue-white.

Let''s go over what we know about blue-white diamonds from historical literature, and then use our current knowledge of diamond color grading and causes of diamond color to arrive at a modern definition and test.

From both Wade in 1916 and Bruton in the 70''s, we can see the working definition of blue-white and of those "false white" diamonds that should be excluded from this designation.

The rare, true blue-white is a term historically reserved for "a particular type of white stone … that is very slightly bluish, usually owing to its strong blue fluorescence" (Bruton, 1978). Bruton noted that the term blue-white "has been much abused," and speculated that 99% of the diamonds sold as blue-white were not only not blue-white, but had tinted yellow body color. He called the color of these diamonds "false white".

In his book "Diamonds A study of the factors that govern their value" (1916), Frank B. Wade warned dealers to be "on their guard against them". He said that few bluish appearing diamonds are really blue in body color. "Most of them owe their blueness to a bluish fluorescence which becomes more marked the stronger the light. ... Some of these stones are inferior in beauty to pure white stones when viewed under a light which does not cause them to fluoresce."

From these quotes we see at least as far back as 1916 that it was known that fluorescence was the principal cause of the blue-white nature in these diamonds, and that the additional requirement for a true blue-white was that the stone not be inferior in beauty to pure white stones in light which does not cause fluorescence. Notice that in this light the diamond no longer must be blueish, only pure white, because the principal cause of it appearing blueish is absent in fluorescence de-activating light.

From this historical definition it is clear that testing must be done in two lighting environments to make a determination. The first test is reasonably well expressed in the FTC guidelines, that is: observe the diamond in normal, north daylight or its equivalent, and if the diamond shows any color or any trace of any color other than blue or bluish, the diamond is not blue-white.

A reasonable working definition of normal, north daylight is a typical sky around noon in the northern hemisphere illuminating diamond bourses such as those in Antwerp, London, New York or Israel. This is the D65 or 6500K color temperature standard. So the FTC regulation''s wording gets us half the way to our definition:

1. The diamond is observed in normal, north daylight (which has > 500uW/cm2 of UV) or its equivalent along side a faceted, colorless quartz crystal or a colorless non-fluorescent diamond, and checked to see if it is any amount more blueish.

2. If it is, we go on to perform the same comparison in lighting of similar color temperature, but one that does not stimulate fluorescence. I would employ the lighting that the AGA Task Force has recommended to obtain the "true body color" absent fluorescence stimulation. Then decide if the diamond color in this light is "inferior in beauty to pure white stones."

What was meant by pure white is not restricted to GIA''s D. Here it is helpful to reference Pagel-Theisen''s book to decide what range of GIA letter grades equate to pure white. She has done as good a job as anyone in reporting on the equating of various color grading systems to the historical terminology.

D and E equate to river, rarest white, and Exceptional White. F and G equate to top Wesselton and rare white. Most gemologists and jewelers use the working definition of colorless from GIA which calls the grades D-F colorless, with the diamond just beginning to "draw color" at G.

The case is made from these definitions that you are on very firm ground to draw the line of "inferior to pure white" between F and G, and putting the boundary between E and F is rock solid. That is why I classified Antoinette''s VS Blue 3.02 cushion as the classical example of a blue-white diamond, since its "true color" grade was E.

The importance can be seen here of having a grading light that does not stimulate blue fluorescence, thereby allowing the grading of "true body color". Without it, the rare true blue-white is lost to history, consigned to being discounted just as the "false white" diamonds with their tinted "true color" justifiably are.

If the FTC regulation had added to it the requirement that a blue-white diamond must additionally be colorless (D, E, F) in lighting that does not stimulate blue fluorescence, diamonds which pass both tests could be justifiably sold as the true "blue-white".

Why ban such an historically important designation, when it can honestly be marketed with this modern definition as a uniquely beautiful, exceptional and very rare diamond of historical importance that few possess?

Michael D Cowing



 

strmrdr

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te:[/b] 7/9/2009 9:45:19 AM
Author: michaelgem



Why ban such an historically important designation, when it can honestly be marketed with this modern definition as a uniquely beautiful, exceptional and very rare diamond of historical importance that few possess?



Because it would be abused again.
Because anyone using it opens themselves to being called a crook even if they use it properly.


[/quote]
 

michaelgem

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Date: 7/9/2009 10:42:30 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/9/2009 9:45:19 AM
Author: michaelgem


Why ban such an historically important designation, when it can honestly be marketed with this modern definition as a uniquely beautiful, exceptional and very rare diamond of historical importance that few possess?


Michael D Cowing

Because it would be abused again.
Because anyone using it opens themselves to being called a crook even if they use it properly. Karl
Karl,

Blue-white is already being abused under the current FTC guidelines.

Use of this modern definition, which is true to the historical definition, is a correction of that abuse.

Under this modern definition of blue-white, and through use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, jewelers can ethically market a true "blue-white" diamond such as Antoinettes for the rare and exceptionally beautiful diamond that it is without the current fear of being called a crook.

Use of both types of grading illumination also reveals whether a diamond has been over graded by a laboratory due to fluorescence, and provides the proof that should effectively remove the stigma attached to blue fluorescent diamonds.

Michael
 

adamasgem

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Date: 7/9/2009 10:42:30 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/9/2009 9:45:19 AM
Author: michaelgem



Why ban such an historically important designation, when it can honestly be marketed with this modern definition as a uniquely beautiful, exceptional and very rare diamond of historical importance that few possess?




Because it would be abused again.
Because anyone using it opens themselves to being called a crook even if they use it properly.




D Goloconda, PERIOD!!! Somewhat is getting to sound like GIA continually changing to meet their customers whims or needs...in the US or elsewhere.. Read Richard Wises description!!!
 

adamasgem

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Date: 7/9/2009 11:56:45 AM
Author: michaelgem
Karl,

Blue-white is already being abused under the current FTC guidelines.

Use of this modern definition, which is true to the historical definition, is a correction of that abuse.

Under this modern definition of blue-white, and through use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, jewelers can ethically market a true ''blue-white'' diamond such as Antoinettes for the rare and exceptionally beautiful diamond that it is without the current fear of being called a crook.

Use of both types of grading illumination also reveals whether a diamond has been over graded by a laboratory due to fluorescence, and provides the proof that should effectively remove the stigma attached to blue fluorescent diamonds.

Michael
D, regardless of the illumination used... E''s and F''s show color, by definition...
 

diagem

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Date: 7/9/2009 1:55:13 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 7/9/2009 11:56:45 AM
Author: michaelgem
Karl,

Blue-white is already being abused under the current FTC guidelines.

Use of this modern definition, which is true to the historical definition, is a correction of that abuse.

Under this modern definition of blue-white, and through use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, jewelers can ethically market a true ''blue-white'' diamond such as Antoinettes for the rare and exceptionally beautiful diamond that it is without the current fear of being called a crook.

Use of both types of grading illumination also reveals whether a diamond has been over graded by a laboratory due to fluorescence, and provides the proof that should effectively remove the stigma attached to blue fluorescent diamonds.

Michael
D, regardless of the illumination used... E''s and F''s show color, by definition...
Correction...
On the GIA "D" scale..., 8 out of 10 D''s will exhibit minimal body color....
Not all "D''s" are equal at the GIA..., by fact and definition.

The GIA education books might teach Diamonds are colorless until hitting G..., but we know its NOT the case!
Maybe GIA means "face-up"???
11.gif
 

adamasgem

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Date: 7/9/2009 4:53:41 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 7/9/2009 1:55:13 PM
Author: adamasgem


Date: 7/9/2009 11:56:45 AM
Author: michaelgem
Karl,

Blue-white is already being abused under the current FTC guidelines.

Use of this modern definition, which is true to the historical definition, is a correction of that abuse.

Under this modern definition of blue-white, and through use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, jewelers can ethically market a true ''blue-white'' diamond such as Antoinettes for the rare and exceptionally beautiful diamond that it is without the current fear of being called a crook.

Use of both types of grading illumination also reveals whether a diamond has been over graded by a laboratory due to fluorescence, and provides the proof that should effectively remove the stigma attached to blue fluorescent diamonds.

Michael
D, regardless of the illumination used... E''s and F''s show color, by definition...
Correction...
On the GIA ''D'' scale..., 8 out of 10 D''s will exhibit minimal body color....
Not all ''D''s'' are equal at the GIA..., by fact and definition.

The GIA education books might teach Diamonds are colorless until hitting G..., but we know its NOT the case!
Maybe GIA means ''face-up''???
11.gif
Well we have two issues.. a "True D" range and their "new D" range, i.e. lucky or bribed D''s...

You are correct that there is a range of D, maybe "high D", sort of fit the Goloconda IIa pure concept..

Diagem, you realise that some here are trying to legislate a broad and loose definition... No matter what is defined, I''ll submit something to the FTC regarding it, like I did with the non disclosure of laser drilling fiasco, people were trying to ram through, as well as the initial "we don''t have to dosclose HPHT, well we fixed that with the clause of treatments that effect value clause. LKI/GE also tried to advertize that it (HPHT) wasn''t detectable, at the same time submitting a detection method using a 20 WATT laser
41.gif


We pointed out to them that NYS business law REQUIRED disclosure...

We have had a series of years starting in the 90''s where none may equal some, and flim flam, bribery, and G-D knows what else, and I believe the FTC will be given their marching orders to TIGHEN, rather than loosen regulations, but there will be some (if not most) that will try to stretch the point to thier advantage no matter what is ultimately done.

We are already working on a Petition to the FTC to change some of the 16CFRpart 23 regs on another abused issue, all you have to do is a rudimentary search of Ebay to find one violation after another in Gems and Jewlery. Phoney or bad paper and scams like the colored stone Andesine issue where one of the networks were even issuing phoney paper from a non existent lab "created " by a partner of the wholesaler...That is a whole nother issue..

If I''d get a chance, if I were in court, I''d ask the very pointed question as to how many fancy colored diamond dealers (or big ticket diamond dealers in general) bought $20-30K "paintings" done by the lead GIA "grader"? Just an opinion, (but a nice way to establish a friendly "bond") and whether or not special consideration was given in exchange. When a similar question was broached on IDEX forums, they shut the forum down very shortly after that. (Surprizingly, the "dealer/designer" who was supposed to have one of these "masterpieces" just went Chapter 11. ) And just as surprizingly, there were certains names absent from the list of major creditors listed, who were also supposedly involved in Certifigate, but of course GIA would list the name of the bribers, even in a deposition. It will all come out eventually
17.gif
 

michaelgem

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Date: 7/9/2009 4:53:41 PM
Author: DiaGem


Date: 7/9/2009 11:56:45 AM
Author: michaelgem
Karl,

Blue-white is already being abused under the current FTC guidelines.

Use of this modern definition, which is true to the historical definition, is a correction of that abuse.

Under this modern definition of blue-white, and through use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, jewelers can ethically market a true ''blue-white'' diamond such as Antoinettes for the rare and exceptionally beautiful diamond that it is without the current fear of being called a crook.

Use of both types of grading illumination also reveals whether a diamond has been over graded by a laboratory due to fluorescence, and provides the proof that should effectively remove the stigma attached to blue fluorescent diamonds.

Michael
Correction...
On the GIA ''D'' scale..., 8 out of 10 D''s will exhibit minimal body color....
Not all ''D''s'' are equal at the GIA..., by fact and definition.

The GIA education books might teach Diamonds are colorless until hitting G..., but we know its NOT the case!
Maybe GIA means ''face-up''???
11.gif
DiaGem and Karl,

Yes, we can distinguish with master stones, the almost imperceptable difference between D and E, upside down in proper grading conditions and lighting, but when the terms such as river, top Wesselton and blue-white were established the grading conditions and lighting were very different.

There is no need and it would be incorrect to set the bar for blue-white higher than the historical meaning of the term.
It would be incorrect to impose more stringent definitions than those used to define them in the first place.

It is clear from comparisons (by IDC, CIBJO, RAL, SCAN D.N. and GIA) of current D-Z color grades to such historical terms as pure, fine, river, exceptional white that those terms at a minimum include D-E, and arguably also include F. You can toss out F''s if you must, but no one tosses E from the finest color categories of blue-white, river, finest white, rarest white and exceptional white.

There wasn''t the splitting of D, E, F hairs back in 1916, especially not in the types of relatively UV-free artificial lighting available to make the comparisons with pure rock crystal or non-fluorescing “exceptional white” color master stones.

Michael
 

adamasgem

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Date: 7/9/2009 7:22:52 PM
Author: michaelgem
DiaGem and Karl,

Yes, we can distinguish with master stones, the almost imperceptable difference between D and E, upside down in proper grading conditions and lighting, but when the terms such as river, top Wesselton and blue-white were established the grading conditions and lighting were very different.

There is no need and it would be incorrect to set the bar for blue-white higher than the historical meaning of the term.
It would be incorrect to impose more stringent definitions than those used to define them in the first place.

It is clear from comparisons (by IDC, CIBJO, RAL, SCAN D.N. and GIA) of current D-Z color grades to such historical terms as pure, fine, river, exceptional white that those terms at a minimum include D-E, and arguably also include F. You can toss out F''s if you must, but no one tosses E from the finest color categories of blue-white, river, finest white, rarest white and exceptional white.

There wasn''t the splitting of D, E, F hairs back in 1916, especially not in the types of relatively UV-free artificial lighting available to make the comparisons with pure rock crystal or non-fluorescing “exceptional white” color master stones.

Michael
Seems to be a considerable price jump between a D and an E -IF, or even other clarity grades. Sounds to me like you are artificially trying to "hype" something...
 

michaelgem

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Date: 7/9/2009 11:56:45 AM
Author: michaelgem
Karl,

Blue-white is already being abused under the current FTC guidelines.

Use of this modern definition, which is true to the historical definition, is a correction of that abuse.

Under this modern definition of blue-white, and through use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, jewelers can ethically market a true ''blue-white'' diamond such as Antoinettes for the rare and exceptionally beautiful diamond that it is without the current fear of being called a crook.

Use of both types of grading illumination also reveals whether a diamond has been over graded by a laboratory due to fluorescence, and provides the proof that should effectively remove the stigma attached to blue fluorescent diamonds.

Michael
DiaGem and Karl,

The Golconda gets its mysterious blueish appearance, as described by Richard Wise, from other than blue fluorescence. Wise says the Golconda exhibited no blue fluorescence, which is a good thing. N3 nitrogen aggregation is the only cause of the blue fluorescence of which Bruton and Wade spoke. If there is enough N3 nitrogen aggregation to cause Medium, Strong or VS Blue fluorescence, the diamond is not a type 2A. By definition, it is a type 1A with its nitrogen-caused N3 absorption line at 415.2nm.

The Golconda that Richard examined is an especially rare type of blue-white, a relatively nitrogen free type 2A. As I have carefully noted and quoted Bruton and Wade as saying, the great majority of authentic blue-whites, the ones we are principally discussing, are the highly fluorescent, “pure white” diamonds such as those that came from the Jagerfontaine Mine. It is these type 1A diamonds which possess N3 nitrogen aggregation that have the blueish nature due to blue fluorescence, unlike the typical type 2A, Golconda that Richard saw that had no blue fluorescence.


We have developed a modern and accurate definition, true to the historical definition, of blue-white.


No mention was made of a test or definition of Golconda. Golconda diamonds are an extremely rare subset of blue-white, not a synonym for blue-white. Golconda, type 2A diamonds, with their almost complete lack of nitrogen are often D in color in fluorescence de-activating lighting. If they exhibit a blueish appearance in north daylight, they certainly qualify as an exceptional example of the exceptionally beautiful blue-white diamond.


Looking at the Golconda, Wise was amazed to find: “The blue glow was distinct and visible. In the Golconda stone, in direct sunlight, the blue hue floated above the gem like an early morning haze. Unable to believe my eyes I re-examined the certificate, it read: "no fluorescence"! I checked the stone myself, there was absolutely no fluorescence in either short or long-wave UV. How could this be?”

Wise certainly left me wondering, and with more questions than he or I guess anyone has definitive answers to about this most revered and rare of all blue-white diamonds.

I doubt that owners and sellers of Golconda type blue-white diamonds would take kindly to being told that they could not call them blue-white.

Michael
 

adamasgem

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Date: 7/9/2009 8:26:08 PM
Author: michaelgem


DiaGem and Karl,



We have developed a modern and accurate definition, true to the historical definition, of blue-white.



No mention was made of a test or definition of Golconda. Golconda diamonds are an extremely rare subset of blue-white, not a synonym for blue-white. Golconda, type 2A diamonds, with their almost complete lack of nitrogen are often D in color in fluorescence de-activating lighting. If they exhibit a blueish appearance in north daylight, they certainly qualify as an exceptional example of the exceptionally beautiful blue-white diamond.



Looking at the Golconda, Wise was amazed to find: “The blue glow was distinct and visible. In the Golconda stone, in direct sunlight, the blue hue floated above the gem like an early morning haze. Unable to believe my eyes I re-examined the certificate, it read: ''no fluorescence''! I checked the stone myself, there was absolutely no fluorescence in either short or long-wave UV. How could this be?”

Wise certainly left me wondering, and with more questions than he or I guess anyone has definitive answers to about this most revered and rare of all blue-white diamonds.

I doubt that owners and sellers of Golconda type blue-white diamonds would take kindly to being told that they could not call them blue-white.


Michael
But according to your double-talk and hyperbole, it seems perfectly acceptable to you that the owners of the true blue whites, like Golocandas, have their truly rare Blue White stones lumped in with fairly common Ia''s with common fluor, deminishing their relative value

An obvious agenda emerges...
 

michaelgem

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DiaGem, Garry, and Karl,

During this interchange and discussion, a modern and an accurate definition of blue-white has been developed that is true to the historical definition. It is both a definition and a test, which allows for ethical and defensible marketing of diamonds meeting the historical definition, something that Garry had questions about.


I commented that I doubt that owners and sellers of Golconda type blue-white diamonds would take kindly to being told that they could not call them blue-white. I made that comment to point out the absurdity of prohibiting the legimitate use of this rare diamond color designation. I doubt Richard Wise will refrain from the description of blue-white for the Golconda he observed. And that comment also applies in spades for Antoinette and any owner or seller of a Jager type blue-white.

This modern definition and test of blue-white, involving the use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, provides for completely legal and ethical marketing of true 'blue-white' diamonds such as Antoinette's, and in the process reveals the true nature of any of the many times more common "false white" diamonds.


Michael D Cowing

 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 7/9/2009 11:50:11 PM
Author: michaelgem

DiaGem, Garry, and Karl,

During this interchange and discussion, a modern and an accurate definition of blue-white has been developed that is true to the historical definition. It is both a definition and a test, which allows for ethical and defensible marketing of diamonds meeting the historical definition, something that Garry had questions about.



I commented that I doubt that owners and sellers of Golconda type blue-white diamonds would take kindly to being told that they could not call them blue-white. I made that comment to point out the absurdity of prohibiting the legimitate use of this rare diamond color designation. I doubt Richard Wise will refrain from the description of blue-white for the Golconda he observed. And that comment also applies in spades for Antoinette and any owner or seller of a Jager type blue-white.

This modern definition and test of blue-white, involving the use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, provides for completely legal and ethical marketing of true ''blue-white'' diamonds such as Antoinette''s, and in the process reveals the true nature of any of the many times more common ''false white'' diamonds.



Michael D Cowing

Thanks Michael.
I am with you on this - it seems a viable niche product and I would think any ethical vendor would be most unlikely to be attacked by a consumer watch dog.

I also like your choice of most approppriate colors in the text in you post.
Was this deliberate?
2.gif
 

adamasgem

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Date: 7/10/2009 12:48:03 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/9/2009 11:50:11 PM
Author: michaelgem


DiaGem, Garry, and Karl,

During this interchange and discussion, a modern and an accurate definition of blue-white has been developed that is true to the historical definition. It is both a definition and a test, which allows for ethical and defensible marketing of diamonds meeting the historical definition, something that Garry had questions about.




I commented that I doubt that owners and sellers of Golconda type blue-white diamonds would take kindly to being told that they could not call them blue-white. I made that comment to point out the absurdity of prohibiting the legimitate use of this rare diamond color designation. I doubt Richard Wise will refrain from the description of blue-white for the Golconda he observed. And that comment also applies in spades for Antoinette and any owner or seller of a Jager type blue-white.

This modern definition and test of blue-white, involving the use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, provides for completely legal and ethical marketing of true ''blue-white'' diamonds such as Antoinette''s, and in the process reveals the true nature of any of the many times more common ''false white'' diamonds.




Michael D Cowing

Thanks Michael.
I am with you on this - it seems a viable niche product and I would think any ethical vendor would be most unlikely to be attacked by a consumer watch dog.

I also like your choice of most approppriate colors in the text in you post.
Was this deliberate?
2.gif
No Michael, I beg to differ, no valid definition has been proposed by you, only that biased opinion of two merchants. Goloconda, period !!!
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Marty there are very few famous critics in the world.
Wwould you like to define what you believe would be an acceptable set of rules for Blue White?

There is no reason that we can not propose standards and then guage the demand from the educated consumers on this site for this once favored classification.

We know that there are many people from labs who lurk here - perhaps a lab or two might get interested?
I certainly am - I have played around with a bit of Lexan and found that quite a few of my Strong blues seem to qualify - and this might easily explain why many of our wifes wear fluoro diamonds.
 

adamasgem

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Date: 7/10/2009 3:31:32 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Marty there are very few famous critics in the world.
Wwould you like to define what you believe would be an acceptable set of rules for Blue White?

There is no reason that we can not propose standards and then guage the demand from the educated consumers on this site for this once favored classification.

We know that there are many people from labs who lurk here - perhaps a lab or two might get interested?
I certainly am - I have played around with a bit of Lexan and found that quite a few of my Strong blues seem to qualify - and this might easily explain why many of our wifes wear fluoro diamonds.
A "true D" colored Golconda might fit the bill.... see http://www.rwwise.com/tgd2.html

To quote Richard Wise..
********
"Golconda: The Legendary True Blue White Diamond-- The Rarest of Them All"


"The gem I examined, a 9+ carat D-Flawless took on a distinct distinct bluish glow in direct sunlight. I had never seen this before. The blue glow was distinct and visible. Unable to believe my eyes I re-examined the certificate, it read: "no fluorescence"! I checked the stone myself, there was absolutely no fluorescence in either short or long-wave UV. "

"To summarize, there appear to be three visual characteristics that define the beauty of Golconda diamonds: A high degree of limpidity (crystal), an ultra-whiteness and a blue afterglow that appears in natural daylight. Golconda gems are Type IIa diamonds and this can be established by scientific testing. All Type IIa diamonds, however, are not Golconda diamonds; to be considered Golconda, they must possess the visual characteristics just described."

*******

If you've ever seen the finest of transparent green jadeite, almost looking like a Muzo emerald, or the sublety of the finest Kashmir Sapphire, you will understand that there are categories of stones apart from the rest.

May I add, that degrading the finest buy trying to lump in far less superior goods, is JUST LIKE what GIA did with cut grading, created a USELESS standard, hoodwinking and intentionally deceiving the consumer as to what is the best, and "you" are heading along that same type of path, unfortunately.

Besides, a cerain individual will publish anything said here, as his own.
 

michaelgem

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Date: 7/10/2009 12:48:03 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


DiaGem, Garry, and Karl,

During this interchange and discussion, a modern and an accurate definition of blue-white has been developed that is true to the historical definition. It is both a definition and a test, which allows for ethical and defensible marketing of diamonds meeting the historical definition, something that Garry had questions about.



I commented that I doubt that owners and sellers of Golconda type blue-white diamonds would take kindly to being told that they could not call them blue-white. I made that comment to point out the absurdity of prohibiting the legimitate use of this rare diamond color designation. I doubt Richard Wise will refrain from the description of blue-white for the Golconda he observed. And that comment also applies in spades for Antoinette and any owner or seller of a Jager type blue-white.

This modern definition and test of blue-white, involving the use of both 1. UV containing and 2. fluorescence de-activating lighting, provides for completely legal and ethical marketing of true ''blue-white'' diamonds such as Antoinette''s, and in the process reveals the true nature of any of the many times more common ''false white'' diamonds.

Michael D Cowing

Thanks Michael.
I am with you on this - it seems a viable niche product and I would think any ethical vendor would be most unlikely to be attacked by a consumer watch dog. If a vendor is attacked, our definition and test are his teeth to bite back.

I also like your choice of most approppriate colors in the text in your post.
Was this deliberate?
2.gif
Thank you, Garry for your questions and the opportunity to use the issue of what constitutes a true blue-white to illustrate the importance of knowing a diamond''s "true color" by its examination and grading in lighting which does not stimulate fluorescence.

The big issue for the diamond industry is less what constitutes the historical blue-white, and more the universal over grading of many blue fluorescent diamonds relative to the "true color" that it has always been the industry''s intent to have graded.

Michael
 

michaelgem

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The significance of Frank Wade’s 1916 work, Diamonds A Study of the Factors That Govern their Value cannot be overstated.

Al Gilbertson in American Cut The First 100 Years notes the importance of Wade, his work and his influence with Shipley and the GIA. Wade was the senior and it appears the most important academic member of GIA’s “Committee of 100 World Gem Authorities,” active during GIA’s formative years.

Through his 1916 book and other writing, Wade provides us with the only remaining window into technical and gemological aspects of the diamond industry’s grading and valuation of diamond cut and quality going back almost 100 years.

Michael D Cowing
 

adamasgem

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Date: 7/10/2009 10:14:06 AM
Author: michaelgem


The big issue for the diamond industry is less what constitutes the historical blue-white, and more the universal over grading of many blue fluorescent diamonds relative to the ''true color'' that it has always been the industry''s intent to have graded.

Michael
THAT IS ONE THING I CAN AGREE WITH YOU ON 100%, Something I, and others, have been fighting about for a decade or more.

Is your G a J?
 

michaelgem

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Date: 7/10/2009 10:25:08 AM
Author: michaelgem
The significance of Frank Wade’s 1916 work, Diamonds A Study of the Factors That Govern their Value cannot be overstated.

Al Gilbertson in American Cut The First 100 Years notes the importance of Wade, his work and his influence with Shipley and the GIA. Wade was the senior and it appears the most important academic member of GIA’s “Committee of 100 World Gem Authorities,” active during GIA’s formative years.

Through his 1916 book and other writing, Wade provides us with the only remaining window into technical and gemological aspects of the diamond industry’s grading and valuation of diamond cut and quality going back almost 100 years.

Michael D Cowing

Quoting from Wade’s book, Diamonds A Study of the Factors That Govern their Value, around the turn of the 20th century, the top color designation was River, closely followed by Jager.

Quoting just the parts pertaining to blue-white and these top color grades, Wade says: “Probably the finest white diamonds are those classed as Rivers. These stones are either snowy white or blueish white … The finest of the old Indian (Golconda) and Brazilian diamonds, when recut to proper proportions, belong in this classification. … A small percentage of African stones belong in this classification.”

“Next after the Rivers, come, perhaps, the so-called “Jagers”. These … are blueish white stones … there is really very little difference between some blue-white Rivers and some fine Jagers, and values are closely similar and very high for either class.”


From Wade’s words, we can take away the understanding that there were two types of true blue-white diamonds whose “values are closely similar and very high.” Today we know these as the “mysterious-blueish-appearing, but non-fluorescent, type 2A, the Golconda, Indian example of which was recently described by Richard Wise, and the blue fluorescent, type 1A “Jager class”, the example of which is Antoinette’s stone in the study’s 25-diamond data base.

Michael D Cowing

 

strmrdr

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michaelgem

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Date: 7/3/2009 6:34:01 AM
Author: DiaGem



one Very Strong Blue in particular, Antoinette's 3.02ct cushion that turned out to be a true 'blue-white' or Jager stone. Michael D. Cowing

How do you define a 'true blue white Jager diamond' Michael? Garry Holloway



I go by the historical definition. The earliest definition to be found in works about diamonds is in Frank Wade's 1916 book, Diamonds, A Study of the Factors That Govern their Value.

Wade says:

'Jagers', named after the Jagersfontein mine, which yielded some especially fine stones, are bluish white stones. ... there is really very little difference between some blue-white Rivers and some fine Jagers, and values are closely similar and very high for either class.

In the Gemmological Association article, I address this true 'blue-white' diamond versus the 'false color' diamond at the beginning of the Problem section:

The Problem

The light yellowish tints in a Type Ia diamond combine with the various amounts of blue fluorescence, stimulated by daylight and other illumination containing Ultra Violet energy, to give blue-fluorescent diamonds a whiter, “perceived colour“, than its “true body colour” seen in lighting where fluorescence is not stimulated.



Diamond Colour ¯ “True” or “False”
Going back over 100 years, there was concern in the diamond trade for this fluorescence-improved, “perceived colour”, which was viewed as a “false colour”. The rare, true blue-white (also called Jager after the Jagersfontein Mine) is a term historically reserved for “a particular type of white stone … that is very slightly bluish, usually owing to its strong blue fluorescence” (Bruton, 1978). Bruton noted that the term blue-white “has been much abused,” and speculated that 99% of the diamonds sold as blue-white were not only not blue-white, but had tinted yellow body colour. He called the colour of these diamonds “false white”.

I believe these 'false-white' Diamonds were also marketed as 'Premier' type Diamonds which as I recall had a slightly yellowish tinted body color with a nice bluish glow face up appearance..., which also commanded a certain value premium.
Like the Jagersfontein (for better whites)..., Premier was known for their tinted material.


Evidence is found of concern for this fluorescence-improved, “false colour“ going back to at least the turn of the 20th century. In his book “Diamonds A study of the factors that govern their value” (1916), Frank B. Wade warned dealers to be “on their guard against them”. He said that few bluish appearing diamonds are really blue in body colour. “Most of them owe their blueness to a bluish fluorescence which becomes more marked the stronger the light. ... Some of these stones are inferior in beauty to pure white stones when viewed under a light which does not cause them to fluoresce.”

So a followup question is how do I know Antoinette Matlin's 3.02 cushion cut is a true 'blue white'? The answer is found by grading both the fluorescence improved 'false color' obtained by grading in the GIA DiamondLite and comparing it to the 'true body color' obtained in lighting that does not stimulate fluorescence.

The data base contained five Very Strong Blue's including Antoinette's. The other four VS blues dropped four up to almost 5 grades in color. These are the much more common 'false color' diamonds referred to by Wade and Bruton. Antoinette's blue-white went from D to E, an imperceptable change proving it to be the much more rare 'true color' Jager stone.

Michael D. Cowing

Diagem,

Your observations are right equating the old Premier class of diamond with what Wade and Bruton indicated were called "false white" diamonds. Premiers were the extreme example of the "false colour" diamond. They were often called "Over-Blue", having what Bruton describes as an "oily bluish appearance" in daylight, and a yellowish "true color" when their extremely strong blue fluorescence was not being stimulated.

Premier diamonds with their extreme fluorescence were easy to spot and so less given to deception than the typical "false white" of which Bruton wrote, which required a "white light free of ultra-violet (to) disclose the true tinted body colour."

Michael D Cowing
 

LaraOnline

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Date: 6/17/2009 10:14:49 AM
Author: adamasgem
Guys.. Face up color is a function of the cutters art AND the cut style

True body color is a related to the purity of the diamonds matrix, the lack of contaminents, mostly Nitrogen, a long held TRUE rarity issue.


Face up color is much more subjective, in my opinion, and will vary with both the lighting color temerature AND lighting envirionment (angles of incidence), much more than the current comparative method.


It would turn into a greater bastardization of color grading, much like we see in fancy color diamonds, as an example ''lucky vivids'' in radiant cuts, where one cuts to concentrate the color.

As a mug punter, I have to agree with adamasgem and strm. I can see why it would be great for marketers and cutters to have ''face-up'' colours marketed, but not all diamonds are fully bezelled! I want and enjoy my diamond''s PROFILE view, very much indeed. Colour (or the lack of it) is important to me, and for GIA to go to to face up colour grading seems misleading. Cut should be be measured and paid for on its own terms.
 

Sagebrush

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Gentlemen,

A very interesting thread. In his book, The Six Voyages..., Jean Baptiste Tavernier describes the best way to see the blue in a diamond is to take it under a tree, i.e. shaded sunlight. Now, Tavernier mentions at least three sources of diamonds, Raolconda, Kollur and Sommelpour. These are fairly widely geographically separated and though we know that type IIa diamonds were found in India, it does not follow that all Indian diamonds are or were type IIa. Tavernier also distinguishes between the technique used to grade a diamond in Europe and India. In India, the diamond is placed in a little niche in the wall with a lamp to light it, in Europe, daylight is used.

I did pretty extensive research and read Tavernier several times, both the Indian and Persian voyages. The results will be available in November in my new historical novel of his life, The French Blue.

Best,
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Back to one of the main themes of the article - here is a comment from Tom Tashi as a Letter to the Editor regarding over grading D-Z diamonds by GIA
http://www.gia.edu/research-resources/gems-gemology/issues/summer2009-contents/SU09LT2.pdf

Tom is a very considered and careful Gemologist - those who know him - know that his opinions carry weight.
Here is one paragraph from his letter:

"I was shocked when I first discovered in 1995, by
shielding the Verilux lamps in the GIA DiamondLite with
a clear Makrolon plastic film (which acts as a UV filter),
that stones with very strong blue fluorescence could
appear three or four letter grades lower in color. Similarly,
after sharing my findings and offering others some
Makrolon film for their own experiments, several of my
colleagues and former associates were as shocked as I was
to see these dramatic color shifts in strongly fluorescent
diamonds. I believe this to be a very significant issue in
the accurate color grading of D-to-Z diamonds, and I cannot
accept GIA’s recommendation for their standard viewing
environment."

(And BTW a page or two down is a Letter to Editor from Sergey regarding the origin of the Hope diamond)
 
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