Bad On line purchase Experience

[maxspinel]

After reading all the good posts on online purchase, I though I would give it a try. So far, my experience has been nothing short of a heart throbbing roller coaster ride; even though it is educational, I am glad it is finally over. The items I received seldom look or even match the vendor’s description. This is part of a long disappointing list:
1) An intense bluish green Brazian paraiba tourmaline turns out to be extremely pale green Nigeria stock.
2) A pink diamond came with such a strong fluoresce that the stone looks milky and washed out of any color or sparkle.
3) A supposed to be fanta orange spessartite is actually a CITRINE!
4) A 14 ct necklace is actually gold plated
5) Items came scratched, dented and chipped

Each time that happens, I have to deal with the agony of shipping the item back and then wait for the mercy of the merchant to return my money. The goods at jewelry television are not cherry picked but at least they have an excellent return policy. Ebay is a joke and unless one is extremely savvy or lucky, he might as well consider the money down the drain.

But then, I thought I was dealing with the lower end of the market and shouldn’t expect much. It is the last straw when I had to shelf out greater than $50,000 to order a pink diamond from a supposed to be big company. The diamond has only a color report but the dealer e-mailed me description of other pertinent details; clarity is SI1 with faint fluoresce. I was shocked when I received the stone. It has nicks on the girdle and black spots all over which was definitely not shown in the picture that the vendor sent me. The worst of all is the stone is milky and lifeless; it does not even sparkle like a diamond. I took it to an appraiser and based on his assessment, the stone is poorly cut with I1 clarity and displays very strong fluoresce. He told me it is not even worth ½ of the price. I wanted to ship it back immediately but even that is a huge hassle. The registered mail insured only up to $25,000. Also, for common consumer folks like me who don’t have an account with carriers such as Fed Ex, I can’t ship the item insured. Luckily, I have a friend in the retailed jewelry business and she allowed me to use her account. To give the company credit, they return my money immediately yet deducting $500 for shipping and handling cost

I didn’t even mention or question the discrepancy of the clarity, nicks and the fluoresce since I was afraid then they would accuse me of switching or damaging the stone.

I found a brick and mortar retailer who is able to locate a similar pink diamond for me. It is a little more expensive but looks ten times, no a hundred times better. I learnt my lesson and I should have listened to my hubby, never buy anything on line........

 

[jaz464]

Date: 8/8/2006 9:15:36 PM
Author:maxspinel


I learnt my lesson and I should have listened to my hubby, never buy anything on line........

Correction: never buy a diamond on ebay.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Ohh MaxSpinel..

I am sorry

you had this bad experience with your on-line transaction. I think you should not let one "Bad Monkey" ruine it for the "Whole Circus".The main thing you need to do next time is Educate yourself a little more. Please, I am saying this with all due respect, but there are many unscrupulus dealers out there who are waiting for people to throw there money at them. $50,000 is a lot to spend. I am not saying this is the case, but just because $50,000 is slapped on the table for something that has an expensive price tag attached, does not as you well know now mean your getting quality merchandise.

If you so wish I would share the vendor or jewelery store with us. There are so many good...No..Great stories on this site all dealing with On-Line vendor''s, I think you should attach the name if your comfortable to alleviate this from happening to another person who might find themselves in the same situation as yourself. Next time your going to spend this kind of money, COME to PRICESCOPE and post " Hey guys, Im interested in a pink diamond, garnet, etc... and I have "X" amount of dollars to spend, What is your Input and we will head you in the right direction.

There are vendor''s and professionals on this forum who go way above and beyond to educate the consumer and appraisers as well who offer their input and advice. It is a shame to not make good use of this advice and even more of a shame to in a way "Generalize" what every on-line experience is based on this ONE bad experience.

I am in no-way down playing what happened to you and this is a terrible thing which I am sure many more people can relate to. I just want to let you know there are vendors, educator''s and consumer''s out there who have much more to offer and would give much of themselves to help out in seeing a positive outcome come from the advice given in the format of the PriceScope Forum.

In the meantime, It will be neat to see your gems when you have them set. Do you have any picture''s?

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 8/8/2006 9:20:20 PM
Author: jazmine

Date: 8/8/2006 9:15:36 PM
Author:maxspinel



I learnt my lesson and I should have listened to my hubby, never buy anything on line........

Correction: never buy a diamond on ebay.

correction: never buy a diamond or color stone on ebay and expect to get quality goods.

movie zombie

 

[perry]

And you think that the local jewelers are any better..... In general, no.. (and you should see those stories as well).

What you need to find is jewelers who are knowlegable about what you want, have long established credibility, and then send the gemstone to a good independent appraiser.

If you reseach what Pricescope is about - you will find that we generally have presorted out a handfull of very knowedgable and trustworth vendors and independent appraisers - who work for you. You would find many many warnings about ebay. If you search a large compaines name you will probably find reports on them.

In your case - for colored gemstones: Goto Wink Jones (Winfields). You will not be disapointed.

For diamonds: My personal favorites are NiceIce, Good Old Gold, and Wink Jones.

Others may refer you to perllmans and a few others.

I note that everyone one of those are also stand alone stores (or offices) that you can visit with large established clientell.

Then there are a few pure internet players who are highly recommended on this site.

The key is personal education and research. Pricescope was set up just for people like you and me. It serves the client''s interest.

But, no one can force you to use it.

Perry

 

[denverappraiser]

Maxspinel,

OK, what lesson did you learn?

Choose your dealer carefully, right? Is the problem really that the bad ones you chose advertise online or could it be that you were using a bad selection criteria in the first place? I mention this not because I don’t think you will do well at a storefront dealer but it sounds like in every case you have selected a dealer who provided an inflated product description along with a promise of a bargain price. It’s easy to make the same mistake with a store and mistakes can be equally as bad. It’s common to assume that the only difference between dealers is the price. Unfortunately, this is not the case, as you have discovered. Did they tell you up front to expect the $500 shipping fee if you returned it? This is not unreasonable and, assuming you agreed to it, it’s entirely appropriate.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[movie zombie]

actually, there are several good sources for color stones.....let your fingers do the walking over to the color forum, do a search and see what comes up. there have been recent posts giving good vendor names.

movie zombie

ps as in all things, let the buyer beware. don''t expect a fab stone of any kind for dirt cheap prices. and whether spending $.50 or $50K, be an educated consumer. there is lots of good info on what constitutes a good quality stone and having that information makes asking the vendor the right questions easier.

 

[maxspinel]

Note:

That particular store that I got the pink diamond was not ebay. The company was actually recommended by this web site. I didn''t want to make a scene and since they promptly refunded my money, I chose not to disclose the name. Because of their good reputation, I trusted this store and shelfed out the money. And believe me, $50,000 was no bargain. During this process, I lost $750 but gained a valuable lesson.

Also, I am not an idiot that I can''t tell a blatantly bad stone in person. Even though I am just a consumer, I''ve learnt to use some of the instrument and am studying to get my GG degree. I''ve always been skeptical about buying diamonds/gems on line and this experience confirms it.

 

[GotStones]

I''m really sorry to hear about your experience. You really got ripped off.

As a consumer I''d love to know who you dealt with.
I understand you don''t want rock the boat, but if all we hear are the positives we don''t get the full picture of who we are dealing with.
Plus they may have an explanation (I''m skeptical, but I''ll give ''em the benefit of the doubt).

As far as the refund...Someone else may be able to answer this:
Is it common practice not to refund the S&H and insurance for a returned item.
I''d understand if the item was returned just because someone didn''t like it, but this seems to border on fraud.
I don''t know what representations were made explicitly or implicitly, but this situation seems extreme.

 

[JulieN]

Is it common practice not to refund the S&H and insurance for a returned item.

Standard

 

[pricescope]

Date: 8/9/2006 2:35:02 AM
Author: maxspinel
Note:

That particular store that I got the pink diamond was not ebay. The company was actually recommended by this web site. I didn''t want to make a scene and since they promptly refunded my money, I chose not to disclose the name. Because of their good reputation, I trusted this store and shelfed out the money. And believe me, $50,000 was no bargain. During this process, I lost $750 but gained a valuable lesson.

Also, I am not an idiot that I can''t tell a blatantly bad stone in person. Even though I am just a consumer, I''ve learnt to use some of the instrument and am studying to get my GG degree. I''ve always been skeptical about buying diamonds/gems on line and this experience confirms it.

Did you mean Pricescope?

"This web site" does not recommend any company.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/8/2006 9:15:36 PM
Author:maxspinel

After reading all the good posts on online purchase, I though I would give it a try. So far, my experience has been nothing short of a heart throbbing roller coaster ride; even though it is educational, I am glad it is finally over. The items I received seldom look or even match the vendor’s description. This is part of a long disappointing list:
1) An intense bluish green Brazian paraiba tourmaline turns out to be extremely pale green Nigeria stock.
2) A pink diamond came with such a strong fluoresce that the stone looks milky and washed out of any color or sparkle.
3) A supposed to be fanta orange spessartite is actually a CITRINE!
4) A 14 ct necklace is actually gold plated
5) Items came scratched, dented and chipped

So, you knew all this to be the truth how?

What cert did the pink diamond come with?

 

[perry]

Maxspinel says:

The company was actually recommended by this web site. I didn''t want to make a scene and since they promptly refunded my money, I chose not to disclose the name. Because of their good reputation,...


Max:

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with a vendor apparently highly recommended by people on this site.

In order for this site to work properely - you need to identify the vendor; and may have to identify other details.

Pricescope forums in general (public pressure) has worked to raise the standards at some vendors, and in other cases Pricescope (the owners) has banned companies from participating - or even being mentioned due to decietfull practices.


Now you have implicated that a general forum recomended vendor supplied you with an approximate $50,000 pink diamond that came with such a strong fluoresce that the stone looks milky and washed out of any color or sparkle; that the diamond was poorly cut, and did not seem to match the dealer supplied information on it (which was not a lab report).

We would all want to know who this Vendor is. Truely we would.

It will benifit all who come after you to know this information, and may benifit a number of people now to know.


Perry

 

[denverappraiser]

Maxspinel.

I don’t mean to pick on you and I’m thrilled that you got your refund but I really do think it’s helpful to other readers to deconstruct this complaint and how this could have gone so wrong. It’s actually better for this purpose that we don’t know who the dealer is because that makes the whole think less of a personal attack. That said, here are a few general comments:

Fluorescence
Fluorescence in a fancy colored diamonds is very common. Misgrading strong for faint is certainly reasonable grounds for returning it if you don’t care for this effect but this is not the same offense as selling a citrine as a spessartite or gold plate as 14k. Something is certainly off here but are you certain that the appraiser is correct and the dealer wrong, not visa versa? Why?

Clarity
SI-1 vs. I-1 clarity. This seems to be a key topic. Eye visible black spots, nicks on the girdle and a cloudy appearance all suggest I-1 but I’m curious why it doesn’t have a lab report with a more definitive answer to this question. Let me rephrase. Every $50k diamond has a lab report, the question is why it wasn’t given to you. You’ve got a big red flag by being presented only an origin of color report. Why was this type or report ordered instead of a full grading report? I’ld be willing to bet that it wasn’t to save a few hundred dollars in grading fees. Whoever ordered this report, possibly the dealer or possibly their supplier decided that they didn’t like the conclusions on the grading report and ordered the other flavor because they thought it would make a better advertisement. It was a mistake not to require this paperwork on a stone of this magnitude. The first stop of the stone should have been GIA for accurate grading. Assuming it passed that and the results were acceptable to you, then it should have gone to the appraiser. “Cloudy” appearance is usually from problems of clarity, not fluorescence by the way.

Price
As I’m sure you know, big beautiful pinks are pretty hard to come by and can be extremely expensive. Subtle differences can have a huge effect. I’m curious how the appraiser came about their ½ price figure. They may very well be right, I wouldn’t know without doing the research but this is not an easy thing to value. Where did they get their data? What was their chosen marketplace? Did they have comparable stones that have been sold or being offered for sale elsewhere that they could use for comparison? This should all be contained in their report. If the value conclusion is going to be important to you in making your decision, make sure you understand how they came by it and be careful of ‘garbage in – garbage out’ type logic. You're putting a lot of confidence in your appraiser, make sure it's justified.

Shipping
This seems to be another key topic and is certainly an advantage of the local stores. Depending on where you and they are, it may be reasonable to travel to the dealer to make a purchase like this. This is a common problem with goods like this because a vast majority of dealers, both online and on the street, simply don’t sell this sort of thing. If the store doesn’t have what you want, they will have to ship it in and, if you don’t buy it, they will have to ship it back. The shipping company gets their money either way so the big questions are whether the stone you want is already locally available and whether the dealer can get a better rate on shipping and insurance than you can. You already knew this because of your friend in the business. In the end, the consumer is going to be the one absorbing this cost no matter where they shop. This is part of that ‘higher’ price that the b&m store is charging, it’s just not being separately billed.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[niceice]

I''m sorry to hear that you have suffered several bad shopping experiences online, however this should not be misconstrued to mean that all online dealers provide bad service or do not deliver their product as advertised, described or promised. The fact of the matter is that the majority of online dealers do make an effort to provide their clients with an excellent level of customer service if for no other reason than those of us conducting business online essentially live in a glass fish bowl where every mistake is blasted about the internet for all to see.

Unfortunately we hear more bad eBay jewelry shopping experiences than good... Quite often this seems to be due to vague product descriptions that seem to be just accurate enough to deny a faithful and trusting customer a refund. I''m glad to hear that you did in fact receive a refund, many people do not.

Regardless of whether you are shopping online or in a brick and mortar store, people should make major buying decisions based upon accurate documentation - a color grade only report leaves much to be desired and honestly we''d find ourselves asking "if the vendor took the time to send the diamond to the laboratory, why wouldn''t they order the full report?" and the obvious answer might well be "because a full report would have provided a consumer with information about the gem which the seller felt might prevent the gem from being sold".

Many jewelry stores, online and brick and mortar, make an excellent living by providing their clients with very little detail. There have been so many times when people have waited until years after making a major purchase to obtain an appraisal and only then do they discover that they have been duped. Today''s consumer needs to be smart and savvy and needs to conduct their due diligence about a purchase before making the purchase...

Request accurate and complete documentation before buying.

Only buy from vendors who offer a reasonable inspection and return policy - in writing. If published on their web site, print down a copy complete with the header and footer information and date to prevent it from being changed at a later date. You can accomplish this from within the File / Page Setup or Print Options tabs on your browser.

Verify that a vendor does not have any complaints filed against them with the Jewelers Vigilance Committee before making a purchase and report bad experiences to the JVC to prevent other people from making the same mistake.

If you do experience a problem or think that you may be disatisfied with an online purchase, telephone AND email the vendor as soon as possible to make it easier to return the goods. The fact of the matter is that MANY of the online vendors sell goods on consigment off of the multiple listing service that is available to the trade and it is probably easier to return something to a vendor before they have paid their supplier for it than after they have paid their supplier for it... Awhile back we were contacted by a woman who purchased a brand name diamond from a brick and mortar jewelry store in Florida and although the brand name diamond manufacturer had a 30 day return policy, the store didn''t have a return policy (beyond their word at the time of sale) and when she went to return the stone (after doing her homework after the sale) the store owner told her that the diamond was not returnable because she had already paid the supplier for it. Last I heard, she was still running in circles between the JVC, an attorney in Florida and the source manufacturer. A headache that nobody needs and the transaction was not conducted online, thus it should be noted that purchase problems can occur anywhere.

 

[WinkHPD]

I wish your complaint was unusual and rare, but unfortunately it is a common complaint, and one we hear frequently, both on and off line.

For the first batch of complaints, I agree, you were definitely dealing with the bottom of the barrel (ebay and television). For the second complaint it would be interesting to have both sides of the story, but I have shipped $50,000 items before and it DOES NOT COST $500. Personally I would have been screaming about the discrepancies, but can understand and accept your decision not to.

I would like to list a couple of ways to avoid the sight unseen issue if there is a stone you should ever find on line that you would like to see.

1. Depending on where you live you can often have a stone shipped directly to an independent appraiser who will receive the stone and hold it in his custody without you ever having to pay for it up front. (You might have to pay the postage and agree to be liable for the return postage.) This is an ideal situation, but not every one lives in an area with a trusted local appraiser to whom the vendor will send the gem involved without prepayment.

2. Your vendor can arrange to have the stone shown at a local jeweler and pay a commission to the jeweler if the stone sells. I have done this on more than one occasion when my client did not live near a trusted local appraiser. Most times I have just sent the stone to the jeweler, but on one occasion with a diamond of greater than $50,000 I actually flew to San Fransisco and met with the client at the store of a jeweler associate of mine, payed him a small commission and directed the actual mounting of the stone to my jeweler friend rather than having to ship it back and forth through the mail.

3. If it is a truly important sale, arrange to fly to where the gem is and view the gem at the vendor''s premises. This can be done for more than only the reason of cost too. A few times I have arranged for clients to visit Paul Slegers in Antwerpen, particularly easy for my European clients as travel within Europe is so easy, and also for my vacationing clients who want to make the purchase of their diamond a memorable experience for their loved one. Imagine telling your children and grandchildren about your gem buying experience when you were being courted by your husband.

4. This is probably not going to happen so much now, but in years past I would also hop on a plane if you paid the airfair. I once met a client from Japan at the airport in Los Angeles when he got off the international flight and we looked at gems with his fiance before they boarded their flight to Pheonix to visit family. (They chose a beautiful .99ct Internally Flawless light fancy pink pear shaped diamond. Three weeks later Benifer happened and they would have had to pay much more for that pink than they paid then. However, since they bought the diamond I paid the airfair.) Times were less dangerous then, and I know that I would not likely meet with a stranger in such an unsecure place these days.

I am sure there are other ways to avoid buying sight unseen also, but these just come to mind, and they avoid the necessity of trying to judge from an inadequate photo.

I am truly sorry that you have had these problems, and I know my list does not help you with past problems, but I hope that it offers possible solutions to you and others in the future.

Wink

 

[maxspinel]

Dave,
Thanks for your kind words and understanding that I chose not to disclose the name. I’d like to give the dealer, no matter how bad the situation is, some benefit of the doubt. The whole point of this post, just like you have stated, iis to raise consumer awareness so they can take appropriate steps not to fall into the same traps again. I am just lucky to get my money back; many others might not be so lucky. To answer some of your questions on the stone:


Fluorescence
I understand some fluorescence in fancy colored diamonds is very common. However, strong fluorescence will wash out the color in a colored diamond. It is graded fancy pink but it does not have much of any color under the sunlight. At some lighting and background, the stone is milkish off white. I did some research on the effect of fluorescence on colored diamonds and I particularly asked the vendor that question to make sure before I purchased the stone. I have gone to this appraiser for a long time. He belongs to the appraiser board and is well respected in the community. When I first saw the milky appearance of the stone, based on the knowledge that I obtained from taking the GIA class, I had suspected strong fluorescence. When I used the little pointer on the stone, it strongly fluorescents a bluish color. However, I still took it to the appraiser just to confirm my own findings and get an independent report for future reference. In this case, I do trust myself and my appraiser.


Clarity
The stone has only a GIA color report and is dated early 05. It depicts the dimensions, confirmation of natural fancy pink color and even distribution. The report was included in the package. I totally agreed with you that a red flag should have been raised at the time. When the vendor chose not to submit a stone for a full report, there must be pertinent details that they don’t want you to know. In hind sight, I should have insisted on a full report. However, in all honesty, the black spots and the tiny nick did not bother me as much as the fluorescence. If the stone retains the intensity of the color and sparkles, a lot of imperfections can be masked and I’ve seen gorgeous I1 stones. I was even willing to accept the I1 classification if the color and fire/brillance is acceptable. I also agreed that the stone should have gone directly to the appraiser, sealed and unopened, instead of to me first. That would help avoid the argument later on if the correct stone is being sent.


Price
I don’t know what data base my appraiser used for the ½ price. I did not question but it seems logical because in the dealer’s web site, he listed a similar pink diamond with full report which shows I1 and strong fluorescence, the price is about ½. I need to put my trust somewhere. Since I obviously can’t trust this particular dealer, I hope I can trust my appraiser since he has nothing to gain in this transaction. I paid for his fee.


Shipping
I fully understand that shipping and handling is not refundable. However, in their invoice, the shipping and handling charge is $170 and they noted that is non-refundable. When they refunded my money, they deducted $500 instead. The bottom line is they have misrepresented the stone and I have their e-mails and my independent appraiser report to prove it. I could have confronted them when I returned the item and demanded them waiving the fee but since they got a big chunk of my money, being abrupt and confrontational is not a good tactic if you want your money back. Later after the refund, I did not even bother to question them why they have deducted more than what they stated in the invoice. It has become such a hassle and I am so tired of it. Like I said, I am counting my blessing that I got most of my money back and I am treating the lost change as tuition fees to educate myself how not to be ripped off in the future.

A totally tally of my educational fee during this transaction (I nearly forgot the appraiser report):
1) Money vendor deducted: $500
2) Shipping and insurance: $170
3) Appraiser report: $250
4) Wire money transfer: $25
5) 4 sleepiness nights and numerous heart aches
6) Non stop husband nagging

This is a mere $945. Not a cheap lesson but it could not worse, far worse

.

 

[mrssalvo]

maxspinal, I respect your decision to not name the vendor and you are a much nicer person than I. To me, Pricescope is a consumer forum where folks, diamond educated or not can come and gain valuable consumer insight and opinions about dealing with a vendor whom many times they will never see or step into their store. Others can learn from your experience that having a stone shipped and verified by and independant appraiser is very wise but a lot people will choose to take the trusted vendor and the info they provide on the stone straight to their insurance company without getting a second opinion. By not naming the vendor, there could be many that will follow the same recommendations you found on this site and also be out the $ for and expensive lesson. I'm very glad they refunded what they did, they should if it's their refund policy anyway, and I'm very sorry for all the trouble and heartache this has caused you

ETA: I also wanted to say that most of the vendors here have had some negative feedback from time to time. I think it's good for the vendors to see what the consumer perception of what happened is, sometimes the customer is right and other times it turns out the vendor was not at fault and how they handle the situation is what would earn my business. Folks are pretty good around here about being fair and trying to see both sides of a story as well as understanding that mistakes and screwups do happen.

 

[Rod]

Date: 8/9/2006 1:44:39 PM
Author: maxspinel

Dave,
Thanks for your kind words and understanding that I chose not to disclose the name. I’d like to give the dealer, no matter how bad the situation is, some benefit of the doubt. The whole point of this post, just like you have stated, iis to raise consumer awareness so they can take appropriate steps not to fall into the same traps again. I am just lucky to get my money back; many others might not be so lucky. To answer some of your questions on the stone:



Fluorescence
I understand some fluorescence in fancy colored diamonds is very common. However, strong fluorescence will wash out the color in a colored diamond. It is graded fancy pink but it does not have much of any color under the sunlight. At some lighting and background, the stone is milkish off white. I did some research on the effect of fluorescence on colored diamonds and I particularly asked the vendor that question to make sure before I purchased the stone. I have gone to this appraiser for a long time. He belongs to the appraiser board and is well respected in the community. When I first saw the milky appearance of the stone, based on the knowledge that I obtained from taking the GIA class, I had suspected strong fluorescence. When I used the little pointer on the stone, it strongly fluorescents a bluish color. However, I still took it to the appraiser just to confirm my own findings and get an independent report for future reference. In this case, I do trust myself and my appraiser.



Clarity
The stone has only a GIA color report and is dated early 05. It depicts the dimensions, confirmation of natural fancy pink color and even distribution. The report was included in the package. I totally agreed with you that a red flag should have been raised at the time. When the vendor chose not to submit a stone for a full report, there must be pertinent details that they don’t want you to know. In hind sight, I should have insisted on a full report. However, in all honesty, the black spots and the tiny nick did not bother me as much as the fluorescence. If the stone retains the intensity of the color and sparkles, a lot of imperfections can be masked and I’ve seen gorgeous I1 stones. I was even willing to accept the I1 classification if the color and fire/brillance is acceptable. I also agreed that the stone should have gone directly to the appraiser, sealed and unopened, instead of to me first. That would help avoid the argument later on if the correct stone is being sent.



Price
I don’t know what data base my appraiser used for the ½ price. I did not question but it seems logical because in the dealer’s web site, he listed a similar pink diamond with full report which shows I1 and strong fluorescence, the price is about ½. I need to put my trust somewhere. Since I obviously can’t trust this particular dealer, I hope I can trust my appraiser since he has nothing to gain in this transaction. I paid for his fee.



Shipping
I fully understand that shipping and handling is not refundable. However, in their invoice, the shipping and handling charge is $170 and they noted that is non-refundable. When they refunded my money, they deducted $500 instead. The bottom line is they have misrepresented the stone and I have their e-mails and my independent appraiser report to prove it. I could have confronted them when I returned the item and demanded them waiving the fee but since they got a big chunk of my money, being abrupt and confrontational is not a good tactic if you want your money back. Later after the refund, I did not even bother to question them why they have deducted more than what they stated in the invoice. It has become such a hassle and I am so tired of it. Like I said, I am counting my blessing that I got most of my money back and I am treating the lost change as tuition fees to educate myself how not to be ripped off in the future.

A totally tally of my educational fee during this transaction (I nearly forgot the appraiser report):
1) Money vendor deducted: $500
2) Shipping and insurance: $170
3) Appraiser report: $250
4) Wire money transfer: $25
5) 4 sleepiness nights and numerous heart aches
6) Non stop husband nagging

This is a mere $945. Not a cheap lesson but it could not worse, far worse

.

Indeed, one would hope you can trust your appraiser. Was your appraiser an independent appraiser? Or was your appraiser tied to a jewelry store in any way??

 

[jaz464]

Would you mind telling us why the appraiser had a similar pink diamond listed on his website for 1/2 the price? He/she wasn''t selling it were they? That would make them far from independent, in your case especially, since they would have a potential sale to be earned by selling their pink diamond to you.

 

[Rod]

Date: 8/9/2006 2:52:29 PM
Author: jazmine
Would you mind telling us why the appraiser had a similar pink diamond listed on his website for 1/2 the price? He/she wasn''t selling it were they? That would make them far from independent, in your case especially, since they would have a potential sale to be earned by selling their pink diamond to you.

This was my point exactly jazmine. Me thinks something smells foul here...........

 

[maxspinel]

Sorry for the confusion. I meant the same dealer that sold me the pink diamond, not the appraiser. The appraiser is not affiliated with any retailer jewelery. The dealer had a web site which listed some selection of pink diamonds. I did not choose the half price one because of the clarity (I1) and fluorence (strong blue) shown on the full cert. I opted for the more expensive one because I thought I should get more quality out of it. This is clearly not the case. That is why I got so upset especially with myself because I did trust the dealer when he told me this stone is SI1 and faint fluorence. I shelfed out more money and got the same crappy quality.

 

[denverappraiser]

Maxspinel.

Dave is that guy in Philadelphia. He’s the good looking one.

I’m certainly not intending to disparage your appraiser. You’re right that you must trust someone and I’m encouraging people to make sure that trust is well founded. Not all appraisers are well trained, well equipped for every assignment and not everyone uses the term ‘independent’ in the same way. It sounds like you’ve already done this but the first step in any appraisal is to appraise the appraiser and I would add this to the list of excellent advice given above about how to protect yourself in this sort of situation.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[RockDoc]

Max

I am wondering why the dealer charged you $ 500.00? You paid shipping charges.

You even advanced the money for the purchase to him..... and he sent you a stone that was misrepresented.

If a dealer sends out a misrepresented stone, and charges $ 500.00 to do it, I think there is an INCENTIVE to keep doing it, over and over and over.

If he does this 10 times, he''s made himself $ 5000.00! If he knows the stone is mispresented, he knows he will get it back, and if he doesn''t he get what appears to be a "very healthy" price for something potentially sub-standard.

This is why I came up with a list of sellers that are willing to send stones without having to pay for them a number of years ago. If the sellers only got a deposit enough to cover his shipping costs to you, and sent it to an appraiser, he couldn''t have kept your money, because he didn''t have it.

Rockdoc

 

[maxspinel]

Neil,
I don''t know why I was thinking Dave. I agreed that finding a trustworthy appraiser who has no conflict of interest is the first and most important step in assessing items purchased via B&M or online. Appraiser fee is a small and fair fee to pay for the service that can prevent huge financial loss. This is among one of the many lessons that I learnt.

I''ve always have a passion for diamonds/gems (which woman doesnt''t?) In the course of pursuing more of them, I have encountered numerous heartaches and scams. Somtimes I don''t know if it is me or them. Do I sound gullible or do I look gullible? Those listed are just part of a long list. Sometimes I also wonder who can I trust besides my hubby, my kids and my dog. That is why I picked up the GIA course and have been purchasing more and more equipment. For small inexpensive items, I can do some of my own assessment. For expensive big ticket items like this, my best resource is still my independent appriaser and I''ve always been grateful.

 

[maxspinel]

Rockdoc,
I toured your site briefly and it is highly informative. It is good to know there are dealers out there who are willing to ship stones out for appraisals w/o charging credit card first. In your site, you stated that it is stupid for consumers who shelf out their credit cards before having the stone in their hands. In my case, I am even more stupid because I wired the money out so I don''t even have the normal credit card protection. I am totally at the mercy of the dealer; it is up to them to refund my money or to deduct whatever as their transaction fee. Since they have the money and hence all the cards, I am left with very little room to manuveur. It was a very unwise and difficult situation that I have placed myself in.

You are so right in the web site stating that consumers should not just rely on advice from a forum or people that they have never met regarding to what should they buy, where should they buy and how should they buy. All advice should be taken with a grain of salt. The bottom line is it is our responsibility to protect our hard earned money and I failed to do it this time.

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Just out of an appraiser''s curiousity, what carat weight was the pink?

I tend to be a little skeptical of your story, unless you substantiate it in some way. Name of the vendor, or copy of the invoice, or copy of the appraisal, something...

Sorry, but I''m a skeptic by nature. Prove me wrong, and I will apologize profusely.

 

[maxspinel]

Rich,

Sorry to say that. I''ve got nothing to prove to you or anyone else as a matter of fact. My invoice, shipment and appraisal report is well under my possession. It is reserved for litigation purpose when the time should come. As you have noted, I left out most of the facts w.r.t to carat size, exact $$, the vendor, the vendor location or even my location so nobody can deduce who the person is from my post. Sometime ago, another member posted his bad e-transaction experience. He disclosed the vendor''s name and published all the e-mails traffic. He was accused by several "ideal rocks" of being tactless since the vendor had kindly refunded all his money already. He shouldn''t have rocked the boat and destroyed the vendor''s good name as he is well known in the community. In my case, I was trying to be more tactful here by leaving out the details to give some benefit of the doubt to the vendor. Somehow, it seems that I am being accused now for not doing the opposite. Damned you do and damned you don''t. I am wondering if the new lessons learnt here is that the consumer is always wrong.

Look, I''ve got nothing to gain by sharing my experience with people in this forum so consumers could be aware of appropriate steps to protect themselves. I hope this forum is not just for glorification of a risk free on line e-shopping. I am not affiliated with any jewelry company, stores, appraisers or lab. I''ve got nothing to sell, no services to offer and I am not here looking for unfounded sympathy or pity. I do have a normal job and it does not depend on selling, grading or cashing out gems/diamonds to make a living.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/9/2006 5:53:01 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Just out of an appraiser''s curiousity, what carat weight was the pink?

I tend to be a little skeptical of your story, unless you substantiate it in some way. Name of the vendor, or copy of the invoice, or copy of the appraisal, something...

Sorry, but I''m a skeptic by nature. Prove me wrong, and I will apologize profusely.

Rich, I am soooo on board with you.

 

[Cyberj10]

Maxspinel,
I feel for your monetary loss and the frustration that you have gone through but in order to help others not go through the same ordeal that you did you should at least give the vendors name that you have been dealing with. I know that you have stated your reasons for not wanting to disclose this information but if you think about it there is absolutely nothing wrong with stating “YOUR” personal experience in dealing with this particular vendor. I think the people of this forum are smart enough to realize that your situation may not be indicative of what someone else’s buying experience may be but it does give us consumer’s additional valuable information to be able to search for vendors with an more discerning eye. I am new to this site but I can’t even begin to tell you the money and frustration it has saved me because it’s members describe their buying experiences and list who has treated them fairly and supplies great service and merchandise (Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, Sister’s, etc.) and who they have had less than favorable dealings with (Ebay, in particular global_bargain_hunters and shenoa_and_co both which are the same company so I’ve heard). Just answer yourself this question when deciding whether or not to divulge this information, “Why am I protecting a business that, in my opinion (Remember this is your opinion and no one can ever say you don’t have a right to voice it!), misrepresented the goods that were sold to me and then didn’t even honor their own return policy????” I understand your decision but I hope you do reconsider.
P.S. Please tell me it wasn’t Good Old Gold or Whiteflash as I’ll be ordering from one of these vendors in the coming months, hehe. Cheers!