shape
carat
color
clarity

August Vintage Lab grown diamonds poll

Discussion in 'Laboratory-Grown Diamonds /Man-Made Diamonds (MMD)' started by Rpb, Oct 5, 2018.

Would you be open to buying AV lab created diamonds

  1. Yes

    85.8%
  2. No

    12.3%
  3. Yes but under a different brand name

    1.9%
  1. WhatAboutTheCats
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    25
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2018
    by WhatAboutTheCats » Nov 15, 2018

    Hmmmm I understand where your perspective comes from and I understand why you feel thus. I think your handbag analogy is misplaced though. Additionally, your tone is disparaging.


    The growth pattern is different for lab grown diamonds but in all other respects that matter in chemistry, lab grown diamonds are diamonds. For many people who have a background in the sciences, or have a love for all things new in technology, there isn’t much of a mental block to viewing a lab diamond as just a diamond.


    I understand why you would presume those who opt for lab-growns must be poor. The heuristic is that buying cheaper when there are more expensive (OG) options == must not have money. In actuality, it may be true, SOMETIMES. Because there certainly aren’t many lower income people who are buying a cheaper $10k diamond. (And please keep in mind the average and median net worth of Americans by age).


    There are those who have a more limited budget and want the best possible for the price; I say more power to them. In other cases, many young people were traumatized by the last recession and thus plan to live conservatively (the tide went out and they saw many were swimming naked). And it is by living and spending conservatively that they are on their way to becoming high net worth individuals. There are a whole bunch of people who are high income and well on their way to becoming high net worth that you would never suspect — precisely because they spend much less than they can. So judging someone’s liquidity (since the single greatest asset of most Americans is their home) based on how much they spend, isn’t reliable once you are looking at middle to upper middle class groups.


    And lastly, younger people have mostly fallen out of love with diamonds. Lab growns might be a way to get them interested again (the science, the fact that it’s supposed to be more eco friendly, and the newness of gem quality stones, and of course lower prices)


    Don’t even get me started on the resale argument. Buy a $24,000 diamond and manage to sell it for $7000 and you’ve lost $17,000 (not to mention the opportunity cost of the cash). Buy a $6000 lab diamond, cannot sell it at all, and you’ve still only spent/lost $6000 (and lower opportunity cost). Diamonds aren’t investments. It’s a luxury item. And if purchased, IMO, shouldn’t be thought of as retaining much value. I don’t understand why the higher price of mined diamonds is considered to be value added. Do people enjoy diamonds for the high price or for the look?
    If anyone wishes to make money off of diamonds, they should invest in diamond circuitry.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  2. molecule
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    by molecule » Nov 15, 2018
    Am I the only one let down that there are no IS or ASET images?
    Rhino is one of the pioneers of using those tools and while they are offered on the specialty cuts, they are missing on the LG stones. Those tools would be what would convince me pay what I see as a mark up over other lab grown diamonds. I don't need D color, I want optics evaluation.
     
    kgizo and Rhino like this.
  3. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Nov 16, 2018
    Have you checked out the lab reports on the stones?

    They include a range of assessments, including IS and (I think) ASET.

    I was quite impressed by the comprehensive nature of the reports :) All the MRBs I looked at were AGS000, so from what I can tell, Rhino is rolling out high colour/high clarity/Ideal cut options to begin with.
     
    kgizo and Rhino like this.
  4. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Nov 16, 2018
    When you say 'generic', is that to say AGS000 MRB stones are generic?

    I don't think we have any evidence as to whether D is or isn't more difficult to grow than a G, and therefore whether it costs the same (or VVS2 vs SI2 etc.) so I don't think we can say if a given price is 'too expensive'.
     
    


    


  5. vintageloves
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    347
    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    by vintageloves » Nov 16, 2018
    Generic, as in not a branded cut, like I said in my post. I was hoping for August Vintage cuts, not just a middleman situation selling stones but by someone else. And "too expensive" is a matter of opinion and I stand by mine. None of these offerings are the least bit tempting to me, that's all I'm saying.

    But these are early days. Lab diamonds are going to get more popular, the offerings will get better, and I believe prices will come down as well. I was just overly hopeful because I'm personally in the market for a ring now. For those who have the patience, I only see a bright future.
     
  6. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,257
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    by blueMA » Nov 17, 2018
    If people don't mind lab diamonds, then they shouldn't mind moissanites - some are quite lovely and made very well nowadays. This, of course, would depend on whether a person is intent on passing a lab created diamond for a very costly natural mined diamond.

    Consider getting a moissy for now and later "upgrade" to lab diamonds when they inevitably get much cheaper.
     
    kmoro and chunkyfacetlover like this.
  7. bludiva
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,841
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2017
    by bludiva » Nov 17, 2018
    i like them all personally but i could see how someone may not like the refraction of even a high quality moissy and would have a strong preference for lab diamond vs moissanite
     
    vintageloves likes this.
  8. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,257
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    by blueMA » Nov 17, 2018
    Some have strong dislikes for the double refraction because it's a dead giveaway that it's not a natural mined diamond. A typical mossiy stones do tend to look quite flat and glassy under some lighting situations, and I dislike that quality. Many people who choose a moissy for an engagement ring don't seem to mind that, because they don't care to pretend it's not a natural diamond.

    Moissy stones have beautiful scintillation (lacking in CZs) and colorful rainbow fires that's quite mesmerizing under most lighting. If you put a moissy and a diamond in front of a child unaware of the perceived value of the stones, I'd assume most would prefer moissy.
     
    kmoro, JrJ and bludiva like this.
  9. rockhoundofficiando
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    174
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    by rockhoundofficiando » Nov 17, 2018
    Acceptance of a lab re-creation of a natural stone such as a diamond does not necessarily infer acceptance of a man created, ie artificial stone, such as a moissanite or cubic zirconia. Especially given the stigma associated with ersatz products.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  10. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,257
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    by blueMA » Nov 17, 2018
    Of course - as I've stated above it "would depend on whether a person is intent on passing a lab created diamond for a very costly natural mined diamond."

    I've known people who prefer alternate gems strictly in order to boycott the mined diamond industry, but many don't go around wearing something that could be mistaken for one either especially when the choice was due to ethical/value/beliefs.
     
    


    


  11. MelloYello8
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    95
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2018
    by MelloYello8 » Nov 17, 2018
    Except no other gemstones are as hard. As one of those boycotters, I picked out my engagement ring with a Chatham diamond when they weren’t much of a bargain compared to natural diamonds. Before I found out about lab diamonds, I had considered a sapphire as a center stone but was afraid it wouldn’t be hard enough for something I planned to wear indefinitely.
     
  12. blueMA
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,257
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    by blueMA » Nov 17, 2018
    My sapphires and rubies from over 20 years ago still look the same now, but yes although they're pretty hard at mohs scale of 9, they could get scratched up if one's not careful with them and it also depends on the setting and the person wearing them. I'm also very careful with my diamond e-ring because you'd be surprised how many people end up chipping their diamond on the girdle although they're pretty scratch resistant.
     
  13. Rpb
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    314
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    by Rpb » Nov 22, 2018
    @Rhino, will you be cutting any J to L AVC cushions in 1.5-2.0 CT in lab diamonds? Would like to know at what price range they would have...
     
  14. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Nov 22, 2018
    Thanks for your replies, Rhino! :))


    I think the second point touches on something previously discussed on the forum - personally speaking (and I don't think I am alone in this) I am hopeful that the cheaper cost of MMD rough (when compared to Mined rough) will mean:

    - an increased focus on cut quality and light performance, because there is a lot less need to 'save' as much rough weight as possible in an attempt to create sustainable profit margins;

    - more experimentation with new and exciting cuts, because it is not such a financial burden to risk MMD rough not working out; and

    - the potential for skilled cutters and cut-designers to become 'names', so that consumers actively seek out their work and the price of a diamond is viewed more in terms of paying for the artisanal/skilled labour required to create a bespoke stone than the current focus on the rarity of a piece of carbon found by luck/judgement.


    I am still hoping for the day that I can purchase an awesome-cut 2.5ct colourless VVS Asscher for Lightbox's $800/ct, of course ;)) :lol: but top-notch stones at half the equivalent Mined diamond price puts so many more options on the table for consumers, it is very exciting! :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2018
    blueMA, chunkyfacetlover and kgizo like this.
  15. MakingTheGrade
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    10,099
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    by MakingTheGrade » Nov 23, 2018
    Ditto, I would not at all mind some lower colored precision cut lab diamonds. I actually prefer lower colors in oecs and vintage cuts, and I don't think I"m the only PSer that feels that way given all the I and lower OECs over in the SMTB forum :)
     
    kgizo likes this.
    


    


  16. Rhino
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    6,225
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    by Rhino » Nov 24, 2018
    Happy Thanksgiving/Black Friday/Cyber Monday all!

    As you know this is my focus. In the past couple of years as I've always had access to lab grown I wasn't always crazy about the cutting quality and would even recut them to what I know is best. The people I am hooking up with think just like me and that's a good thing. :)

    Yasss... :) As we are rolling out the AVC/AVR I'm also setting my sites on a vintage oval I've designed for my next project. :) I'd like to test it out on the less expensive material first of course.

    Agreed.

    It really is. I've already bugged my friends at DeBeers and even asked them if I can cut my AV stuff for Lightbox ... to no avail of course but I'm not letting that discourage me. :razz:

    Yep. I haven't actually seen yet but am told I may be able to have lab rough grown in yellow tones as opposed to brownish so I'll be exploring this too. :mrgreen:

    Warm regards,
    Rhino
     
    Nitedula, blueMA, SandyK and 2 others like this.
  17. Rhino
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    6,225
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    by Rhino » Nov 24, 2018
    The material I'm going to be working with is of the CVD or chemical vapor deposition type. This growing technology produces lots of colorless. The only colors I've seen thus far in the lower colors have been brown ... some with pink undertones but I haven't seen with yellow undertones just yet although I'm told it can be done. I'll know more for sure this coming week.
     
    AV_, kgizo and OoohShiny like this.
  18. MakingTheGrade
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    10,099
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    by MakingTheGrade » Nov 24, 2018
    Haha there’s also a thread in Rocky Talky that a decent number of pricescopers don’t mind a brown tint over a yellow one, if that’s of interest to you.
     
    Rhino likes this.
  19. Rhino
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    6,225
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    by Rhino » Nov 24, 2018
    the "champagne" tone ... no problem! CAN DO
     
    elliefire99 and bludiva like this.
  20. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Nov 24, 2018
    This is all cool stuff! I applaud your hard work and look forward to what's coming next :))
     
  21. OboeGal
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    218
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    by OboeGal » Nov 24, 2018
    @Rhino, how do you keep reading my mind? First the ideal antique cuts in MMD, and now an antique oval? :appl::love::dance: It just keeps getting better and better - so exciting!
     
    Rhino, elliefire99 and OoohShiny like this.
  22. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Dec 5, 2018
    Loads more stock has arrived!

    Mostly MRBs but a nice selection :)
     
    Rhino likes this.
  23. elliefire99
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    558
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    by elliefire99 » Dec 5, 2018
    Yaaaaassssss. This just made my week! Ideal antique fancy cuts! My dreams have become a reality. The Opulence absolutely knocks my socks off, but too splintery and modern for my own collection. Perhaps my long search for the perfect old pear/oval will finally come to an end.
     
    Rhino and OoohShiny like this.
  24. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Dec 5, 2018
    Rhino, may I ask if there will be a line of smaller stones (say 0.3ct, 0.5ct, 0.75ct) with AGS000 specs?

    As a colour- and clarity-freak with a limited budget, I like the idea of not having to spend $$$$ to buy a pair of high colour. VS+, very modestly sized 0.5ct studs for my good lady! lol
     
    blueMA, SandyK and Rhino like this.
  25. Rhino
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    6,225
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    by Rhino » Dec 5, 2018
    in which shape Shiny?
     
    Mamabean likes this.
  26. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,984
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » Dec 5, 2018
    May I ask what the rough looks like?
     
  27. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Dec 6, 2018
    D'oh! Sorry, I meant MRBs :)

    I guess that any of the larger-facet vintage cuts might not really 'work' at that sort of size, because the facet pattern would be too small to really notice??

    (Although 'in the old days', vintage faceting was all that was available and performed just fine in the lighting of the time?! :twirl: lol)


    EDIT:
    I suppose I'm tilting at the possibility of options that would rival the Lightbox offerings but actually have a guaranteed quality of cut, rather than the (deliberately? hmmm!) somewhat leaky Lightbox stones?

    I know that it is very likely your pricing would need to be higher than the $800/ct Lightbox has rolled out, but then us PSers are already used to the concept of paying a little bit more for better cut and guaranteed light performance ;)) lol, and who wouldn't want a pair of AGS000 H+ VS+ studs for not that much more than a Lightbox offering in an equivalent size? :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
    blueMA likes this.
  28. Rhino
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    6,225
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    by Rhino » Dec 6, 2018
    You sure may! Here is the rough the 1.51ct F VS2 AVC was cut from.
    IMG-20181205-WA0007.jpg
     
    blueMA, Nitedula, MeowMeow and 4 others like this.
  29. Rhino
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    6,225
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2001
    by Rhino » Dec 6, 2018
    Hi OS. :)

    No way! You can definitely and distinctly see it in the smaller goodies!

    LOL I hear you. From what I hear the Lightbox options are extremely limited and yes ... nothing on cut.

    There ya go. :) You can bet I'll be keeping abreast with the trends and if pricing or things change I'll be there to roll with it. The less expensive material will also allow me to experiment more freely with new concepts I have on que as well. 2019 is going to be an exciting year. ;-)

    Kindest regards,
    Rhino
     
    Hounddog, blueMA, Nitedula and 4 others like this.
  30. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,627
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Dec 6, 2018
    Thank you for the detailed reply! :))

    I'm excited to see what is on the near horizon :D
     
    Rhino likes this.

Share This Page