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asscher question

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biblobaggins23

Shiny_Rock
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Nov 25, 2006
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are the asschers today exact replicas of the original asscher? i know true asschers are rare, but does the original have more brilliance than the stepped emerald aka asscher? who can create the specs of an original asscher? also, what are specs for the ideal asscher cut? shallow? deep? in betwee?
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
ok, i don''t know much about asschers but if you do a search here you''ll find a lot of helpful old threads. Also check out Goodoldgold.com''s website. they have some great info there on cut that might help you. I would also recommend checking out their asscher selection. We''ve got quite a few pricescopers who have purchased asschers from them and they are nothing less than stunning.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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14,581
Date: 11/30/2006 7:13:38 PM
Author:biblobaggins23
are the asschers today exact replicas of the original asscher? i know true asschers are rare, but does the original have more brilliance than the stepped emerald aka asscher? who can create the specs of an original asscher? also, what are specs for the ideal asscher cut? shallow? deep? in betwee?
i think the original company markets a 4 step pavilion and crown stone under the name Royal Asscher. Most stones are 3 step that are sold today. The extra facets would be only useful above 3 or 5 cts

the original patent expired 5 or 6 decades ago.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
The original pattent was granted in the 1920s and expired a long time ago.
It was prettty much ignored or worked around anyway.

To answer question, asschers also called square emeralds have been cut in many forms since the beginning.
Some of the early ones were very deep with huge crowns and small tables.
They arent cut anymore.

But at the same time some were being cut that were pretty much identical to what is being cut today.

As Garry noted the Asscher family has a current pattent on one variation of the asscher cut they call the Royal Asscher.

There is really no clear cut answer to your question of if they are the same as was cut long ago.
I will say that the best asschers today are cut with a precision far beyond what most of the old ones were.

As far as what is ideal there are a bunch of threads in the FAQ section on the subject.
The bottom line is the numbers tell you very little about them.
Pictures and a vendor that knows them or seeing them in person is needed to make the final cut.
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
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1,792
The vintage Asschers that I''ve seen appear to be more bulky and less precise in the facet alignment / structure than the modern day renditions that we see. I wasn''t fond of the look of the traditional Asscher cut diamonds that I''d seen, but do like the modern rendition which provides better light return due to a more balanced cut and better facet alignment. It might be easier to try and find an existing antique asscher through retail / pawn / collector channels than it would be to convince most of the current producers of the modern asscher to re-create the heavier looking vintage option... David Atlas of Accredited Gem Appraisers in Philadelphia might be able to provide a better handle and provide some direction on this because he used to trade in vintage stones, no doubt he knows a retailer or internet dealer who trades in them.
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
I have read the threads from the FAQ''s, but still don''t have a solid understanding of the most desirable proportions for an Asscher. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the criteria I read here was:

1. Table: high 50''s - low 60''s
2. Depth: 65%-75%
3. Crown: 10-15%
4. L/W: 1.00 or as close as possible
5. Look for strong even windmills
6. Look for defined concentric squared
7. Look for that "10-mile deep", hall-of-mirrors effect

However, I started doing more research and found some conflicting info. For Asschers that have more of a Royal look to them, I read that you should look for:

1. Table: Less than 60%
2. Depth: 67-72%
3. Crown: 12-17%

I would love to know with certainty what to look for. Are there any mathematical rules of thumb for the clipped corners?

If Kenny is around, I''d love to know the proportions on his gorgeous "Kiss my Asscher"!
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,295
either set of numbers will get you in the ballpark but it wont get you on base.
over 70% depth requires a discount to me but some very awesome asschers are deeper than that.

Crown height over 10% with a table under 63% (maybe 65) and square as possible is as close as numbers can get you.
Most of the best asschers being cut today are in 58% to 62% table range and the 67%-69% depth range.
There are 2 maybe 3 cutters that cut kicken asschers out there right now and that is where they generaly cut them.
In the new year (feb) AGS will start grading asschers and sometime soon after that I expect that Paul ( http://infinitydiamonds.be/ ) will dazzle us with some kicken asschers.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,295
As far as quality, looks and personalities goes its pretty much impossible to tell by the numbers.
Thats where a skilled vendor who knows asschers is very very handy.
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
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2,398
Thanks Storm. It''ll be interesting when they start grading Asschers. I wonder if there is any market play to be made between now and February.

What about the clipped corners - any rules there? Or is that where the skilled vendor comes in?
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 12/1/2006 11:51:14 AM
Author: starryeyed
Thanks Storm. It''ll be interesting when they start grading Asschers. I wonder if there is any market play to be made between now and February.

What about the clipped corners - any rules there? Or is that where the skilled vendor comes in?
clipped enough for good strong windmills at a min, from there its personal preference.
I generaly go by yep that looks good enough :}
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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26,928
starryeyed wrote, "If Kenny is around, I'd love to know the proportions on his gorgeous "Kiss my Asscher"!

Width 7.38mm
Length 7.41mm
Depth 4.96mm
Length to width ratio 1.004

Table 61.35 %
Depth 67.27 %
Crown 16.95 %
Pavilion 46.23 %
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
Thanks Storm! It really helps to have a "resident expert"! And thanks Kenny!

Kenny, you don''t know what you have done to me! After seeing your stone, all I can think about are Asschers! I''m swooning. You chose an absolutely stunning stone! I may have to make your stone into a screensaver or something. Ha-ha!

Is there a thread about your decision process? I tried doing a search and couldn''t find one readily.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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You''d need a scalpel to see my decision process.
My first post about asschers is that long one titled "Have you noticed something missing?" but by then I had already bought it.

I just always admired them.
I like the clean lines and the parallel bars of color and contrast.
To me they have all the elegance and class of an emerald cut with the fire and excitement of a good round.

When I read Isaku''s threads and found out it was still available I just jumped.

I am so bad.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
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Hee-hee! Quaking in your booties, ay?

What I''d like to "extract" from your brain, is how did you discern from the B&W images whether the stone would have that dizzying hall-of-mirrors effect? These B&W images seem really hard to read....
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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26,928
I am no expert.
But I have been reading Pricescope for a year and a half.
After a while you get to know people here when certain ones are just tooting their own horn and when there is a truly fine stone being discussed.

There was enough agreement from key people here to assure me that this was my baby.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 12/1/2006 3:51:58 PM
Author: starryeyed
Did you ever consider this one? I''ve seen it on a few threads:

2.47 F IF from WF

I think you commented on this one Storm at one point?
It looks like a nice asscher not my favorite but nice.
Its one of those that the table is just a little on the big side its just a little over deep and because of the IF its fairly expensive.
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
Storm, of the 3 (or 4) types of step cuts - Wide Steps, Bright Drop, Narrow Steps, and is it, Multi-Step - which one is this?

Also, does the table being a bit too wide mean the hall-off-mirrors effect is diminished?
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 12/1/2006 4:25:34 PM
Author: starryeyed
Storm, of the 3 (or 4) types of step cuts - Wide Steps, Bright Drop, Narrow Steps, and is it, Multi-Step - which one is this?

Also, does the table being a bit too wide mean the hall-off-mirrors effect is diminished?
Too wide a table tends to make an asscher glassy.
This one isnt that far out.

The pic looks like a wide step(but lots of tilt) the IS shows a bright drop so most likely it could look like either one depending on the lighting.
In some lighting the step will seperate and others blend in.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
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14,581
Date: 12/1/2006 4:13:26 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 12/1/2006 3:51:58 PM
Author: starryeyed
Did you ever consider this one? I''ve seen it on a few threads:

2.47 F IF from WF

I think you commented on this one Storm at one point?
It looks like a nice asscher not my favorite but nice.
Its one of those that the table is just a little on the big side its just a little over deep and because of the IF its fairly expensive.
Added comments by Storm from below:
Too wide a table tends to make an asscher glassy.
This one isnt that far out.
The pic looks like a wide step(but lots of tilt) the IS shows a bright drop so most likely it could look like either one depending on the lighting.
In some lighting the step will seperate and others blend in.
Storm without an ASET image or more information I (once again) question your ability and right to make such pronuncements.

(The IF choice is a personal thingy)

Perhaps we should request a .srn scan from Wihiteflash.
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
Hi Garry - thanks a bunch for chiming in! I saw some of the ASET images you posted for Kenny''s gorgeous, albeit wounded, Asscher and they looked really useful. Well, useful to someone who knows what the heck they''re looking at anyway! ha-ha!

I had phoned WF and "Tracy" mentioned she would try to get an ASET image, but I haven''t seen anything yet. This is EXTREMELY educational for me, so thanks in advance for any knowledge you can impart! Cheers!
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
23,295
Date: 12/1/2006 10:04:31 PM
Author: starryeyed
Fascinating Storm! Is one more desirable than another?
personal preference.

in that size range multi-step like Kenny's is my favorite.
In smaller asschers wide step and drops are more my thing because the multi-steps tend to look too busy.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 12/1/2006 10:32:49 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 12/1/2006 4:13:26 PM
Author: strmrdr


Date: 12/1/2006 3:51:58 PM
Author: starryeyed
Did you ever consider this one? I''ve seen it on a few threads:

2.47 F IF from WF

I think you commented on this one Storm at one point?
It looks like a nice asscher not my favorite but nice.
Its one of those that the table is just a little on the big side its just a little over deep and because of the IF its fairly expensive.
Added comments by Storm from below:
Too wide a table tends to make an asscher glassy.
This one isnt that far out.

The pic looks like a wide step(but lots of tilt) the IS shows a bright drop so most likely it could look like either one depending on the lighting.
In some lighting the step will seperate and others blend in.
Storm without an ASET image or more information I (once again) question your ability and right to make such pronuncements.

(The IF choice is a personal thingy)

Perhaps we should request a .srn scan from Wihiteflash.
actual ASET image would be a lot better, WF can take em....
But it will show im right :}
 

UCLABelle

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2005
Messages
2,360
All of the above posts are much more helpful, but as someone who got a "nice looking" asscher a year ago without knowing what was considered "good", I can atest to the difficulty in finding a "good" one. I would suggest reading the tips mentioned above, getting the diamond from someone who deals with asschers and if possible, view it in person. My only problem with our asscher is that while it has a bigger carat weight (1.92) it looks like a 1.25 ct round...a nice looking asscher is typically "deep".
 
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