Asscher Experts Needed!

[Menlikediamondstoo]

When one practically jumps out of the pile, I'd say that's a good sign. If you feel like it, share some more of its measurement details and maybe take a little video!

Very true! I knew I could spend days looking online but in person is the way to go!

The measurements are 7.8x7.7

It didn’t look smaller than my 2carat round (which was my biggest fear) and to be completely honest, it not gong to be hard letting that one go after seeing this.

I’ll get some videos on my next visit

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

Surely you took pics or a video, RIGHT? I think - with step cuts - the numbers only tell some of the story; but your eyes are what dictates the ending, and it sounds like your eyes fell in love with a diamond!

I have what I consider somewhat oddball taste in step cuts - I tend to prefer what is not mainstream, ‘preferred’, etc. If my eyes love it, it doesn’t matter what the numbers are. The only caveat there is if you think you may want to resell it, then it’s probably wise to at least consider that in the bigger picture, so just be certain you LOVE it before you write the check.

Thank you for the feedback! I completely agree! I was soo in the moment I didn’t even get a photo!

I must say that the stone looked amazing next to every stone “until” they took out the 8 carat... but even then (although impressive) the smaller ones had more “pow”

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

This might be a dumb question, but how do you find the crown angle/height on an asscher?

 

[Venzen007]

I assume you're asking about a tool? Just in case, though, crown height is the vertical distance from where the crown meets the girdle to the table, expressed as a percent (avg. crown height/avg. girdle diameter) x 100. Angle is just the avg drop in degrees that the crown facets take from the table toward the girdle.

If you had good magnification, a good high-resolution ruler, and a steady hand you could get a close approximation for crown height percent and angle. For angle, you'd measure the horizontal distance (not the slope) from the table edge to the girdle edge (mm) and then, knowing the height of your crown (mm), you could divide the height by the horizontal distance then take the inverse tangent.

So, if your crown height were 1mm and you had 1.4 mm of horizontal distance from the edge of your table to the edge of your girdle, you have the inverse Tan of .71, or @35°.

Beyond that, and this might have been what you were asking all along, you need a pretty expensive instrument.

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

I assume you're asking about a tool? Just in case, though, crown height is the vertical distance from where the crown meets the girdle to the table, expressed as a percent (avg. crown height/avg. girdle diameter) x 100. Angle is just the avg drop in degrees that the crown facets take from the table toward the girdle.

If you had good magnification, a good high-resolution ruler, and a steady hand you could get a close approximation for crown height percent and angle. For angle, you'd measure the horizontal distance (not the slope) from the table edge to the girdle edge (mm) and then, knowing the height of your crown (mm), you could divide the height by the horizontal distance then take the inverse tangent.

So, if your crown height were 1mm and you had 1.4 mm of horizontal distance from the edge of your table to the edge of your girdle, you have the inverse Tan of .71, or @35°.

Beyond that, and this might have been what you were asking all along, you need a pretty expensive instrument.

Thank you. Wow, it gets intense! Would be much easier if gia would just list it on the report!

At this point, I am trying to find something “wrong” with the stone to save future headaches but it seems to check out. I think I know my answer now

 

[Venzen007]

At this point, I am trying to find something “wrong” with the stone to save future headaches

Lol, you sound a lot like me. Once I had it narrowed down, that was biggest worry. I knew it looked good, but I wanted as objectively good a stone as one that I just thought looked good. It came down to looking at the ASET images and seeing it perform against others and, frankly, posting a lot about it here on Pricescope, getting supportive and positive feedback from "prosumers" and experts alike.

The only thing you haven't done yet that I did was post some pictures, an ASET image, and a video for the folks here to see. Maybe you're at the point in your decision you don't need to, but that's what I'd do, for additional peace of mind.

Edit: I'd think wherever the stone is coming from would have these additional measurements you're interested in, not your jeweler, but his source.

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

Lol, you sound a lot like me. Once I had it narrowed down, that was biggest worry. I knew it looked good, but I wanted as objectively good a stone as one that I just thought looked good. It came down to looking at the ASET images and seeing it perform against others and, frankly, posting a lot about it here on Pricescope, getting supportive and positive feedback from "prosumers" and experts alike.

The only thing you haven't done yet that I did was post some pictures, an ASET image, and a video for the folks here to see. Maybe you're at the point in your decision you don't need to, but that's what I'd do, for additional peace of mind.

Edit: I'd think wherever the stone is coming from would have these additional measurements you're interested in, not your jeweler, but his source.

I’m going to ask today. It all comes down to what I personally love. I’m giving up an F, 2 carat round which most likely holds more resale value than the 2.50 h vvs1 asscher (even though the asscher costs more). I have seen F vs2 asschers in my price range. I would even even up my budget, but that doesn’t change the fact that I really like the H VVS1.

I really like the whole “letting the stone pick you” idea.

 

[Karl_K]

This might be a dumb question, but how do you find the crown angle/height on an asscher?

Angle is not that important to know as long as it works so that leaves crown height, when shopping in person or rotating video you can just look at it from the side.
For reference the crown height of a well cut RB is in part of range for an asscher
If it has the crown height as a well cut RB or more it passes that test.

 

[Karl_K]

As far as size in mm do a PS search with a wide range for color and clarity and click on a few and look at the sizes and compare:
https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds...1&pageview=24&adv=false&days=100&cert_number=

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

As far as size in mm do a PS search with a wide range for color and clarity and click on a few and look at the sizes and compare:
https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds...1&pageview=24&adv=false&days=100&cert_number=

Thanks, Karl.

The learning curve is that some have high crowns and look dead. Some have high crowns and look alive. Some have shallow crowns and look dead. Some have large spread and look great. Some have a small spread and look dead. Bigger tables, smaller tables ect.

Every which way is a hit or miss until I see them in person.

Something else I’m noticing is that even though I love a colorless stone, I’m finding that I see the steps more in the G-h-I stones. Is that a crazy thought?

 

[Karl_K]

Thanks, Karl.

The learning curve is that some have high crowns and look dead. Some have high crowns and look alive. Some have shallow crowns and look dead. Some have large spread and look great. Some have a small spread and look dead. Bigger tables, smaller tables ect.

Every which way is a hit or miss until I see them in person.

Yep, that is step cuts for you.
The facets are not locked into place like a round so a cutter could cut one with good angles but they are in the wrong place and its a dud.

 

[Karl_K]

Something else I’m noticing is that even though I love a colorless stone, I’m finding that I see the steps more in the G-h-I stones. Is that a crazy thought?

Cut determines how visible and how appealing the patterns appear.
The lower color stones are probably just better cut.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Menlikediamondstoo On your comment about color, maybe it’s just me, but I do find that a hint of body color - to MY eyes - adds depth/dimension to a diamond that I don’t tend to see in the colorless ranges. But that’s just me/my opinion & experience.

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

The video in the Adiamor link is half cut-off for me, and doesn’t look very crisp under the table of what I can see.

The second appears to have good ‘patterning’ (squares) under the table which I personally like, but that area under the table overall appears dark vs bright, which could be camera obstruction or something else.

I just posted in another thread: what I like to do is pull the image/video up on my computer screen, then take several steps back from it to look at the diamond overall in a more realistic size vs zoomed in, where I am more likely to focus on one particular thing/feature. If I don’t like what I see at that distance, or the inclusions (if any) are visible, it gets a ‘no/pass’ from me. Maybe try that and see what you think.

Just wanted to thank you for your comment! It looks like the second one is going to be the winner. When you said you liked the pattern of the squares going down- a lightbulb went off! That’s what the others were missing. As for the darkness, I think the video was obstructing it.

@OoohShiny, I’m also going to have this one brought in that you picked out (another H VVS2) I also love the patterning and want to see how it will preform next to the other.

You have such a good eye, if you could take one more peak- my ideal specs would be d/e/f vs2. The H is a vvs1, which is overkill! However, I don’t see any in the colorless range that are even worth bringing in.

In the end, this time around, cut is more important than color.

You all have been soo helpful, I wish my real life friends were this good

 

[OoohShiny]

You are far too kind - I am a mere noob with experience limited (sadly ) to online browsing only! If I am getting lucky then I am pleased to be of some assistance

I should be able to have a look round later tonight or by tomorrow afternoon - I have the joys of an early start and a three-hour meeting at 9am tomorrow... lol


EDIT: Don't forget to check out the 2.5ct colourless asscher on Yoram's www.gemconcepts.net website - antique-y cut and 'different', but a similar stone is awesome in the videos in Jimmianne's 'Mildred' thread!

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

You are far too kind - I am a mere noob with experience limited (sadly ) to online browsing only! If I am getting lucky then I am pleased to be of some assistance

I should be able to have a look round later tonight or by tomorrow afternoon - I have the joys of an early start and a three-hour meeting at 9am tomorrow... lol

Oh how fun! Thank you soo much!

This one just jumped out at me. Not sure if it’s too Leakey but D and nice step pattern!

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...DiamondDetails&action=newTab&catalogView=true

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

Nevermind. I like the windmills in the hvvs 2 more. Yikes! I’m a mess

 

[AV_]

I see why you were asking about crown heights - the H VVS has none to speak of; I am rather a fan of these things, somewhat going against the local grain. It is worth thinking through the species of step cuts - with & nearly bereft of internal reflections...

There used to be a comparison somewhere at the old bottom of this WWW rather making fun of some beautiful step cuts with no crown at all, to demonstrate why stuff above the girdle matters (these also have very defined steps - www )

looking around

 

[AV_]

.
This stands out to me, but it is small - WWW ; just curious what you make of it.

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

.
This stands out to me, but it is small - WWW ; just curious what you make of it.

If that was 2.5carats or at least 7.5mm I would scoop it up SOO fast You have no idea! It’s perfection.

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

I see why you were asking about crown heights - the H VVS has none to speak of; I am rather a fan of these things, somewhat going against the local grain. It is worth thinking through the species of step cuts - with & nearly bereft of internal reflections...

There used to be a comparison somewhere at the old bottom of this WWW rather making fun of some beautiful step cuts with no crown at all, to demonstrate why stuff above the girdle matters (these also have very defined steps - www )

looking around

Yes. It’s lower for sure, but it looks nothing like some of the ones I have seen (example below- which is wayyy too flat, in my opinion.)

Personally, I like a medium crown height. Im not a fan of the lumpy look. I like nice window looking into the stone. However, the H VVS from the top view has steps going pretty far into the stone- and it’s alive. That’s why it’s still at the top of my list.


Also, I haven’t made any final decisions yet. I always get excited and rush into diamond purchases. I want to scope everything out as well as take all of your suggestions into consideration.

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

I think I’ve overstayed my welcome, but I really like this stone as well.

It goes dark (like basically all of them) but then turns right back on. I love that it’s colorless, has a higher crown, and the step pattern!

Thoughts? One of the steps looks like it might have dust on it.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...DiamondDetails&action=newTab&catalogView=true

 

[OoohShiny]

I'm getting confused lol

So, to confirm, we are looking for ~2.5ct, 7.5mm+, colourless, eye-clean?

And so far we have the H VVS as a favourite:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11505219

but you also like this D VS2?
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD12431912

and you like the style of this one but wish it was bigger?
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11918545


These two looked promising to me when browsing earlier but I think the first (F VS) is too small in terms of spread:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD12628778
and the second (F VVS) might be too big in price and, perhaps, a touch window-y when nearing 90degrees tilt/rotation angle??
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD06734905

 

[OoohShiny]

This one (G VS2) looks potentially interesting but I'm not sure if it windows when tilted/rotated:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11005872

This (F VS2) looks like it has potential but budget is blown!
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD12358562

Potentially interesting but I'm not sure if certain angles have too much obstruction in adjacent facets at the same time:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/2.50-carat-g-color-if-clarity-sku-6399659

A maybe?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/2.50-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-5626831

Maybe a smidge of windowing at tilt angles in the bottom triangles? but does look very 'crisp' to my eyes:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/2.52-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-6411893

 

[OoohShiny]

Yoram's asscher that is a larger version of Jimmianne's Mildred lol

https://gemconcepts.net/diamond-boutique/2-52-carat-asscher-cut-diamond-of-first-water/
https://gemconcepts.net/product/d-color-square-emerald-cut-2-52-carat/

Video:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-code-name-mildred.236249/page-6#post-4388328

 

[AV_]

I think I’ve overstayed my welcome

Not from my part; my own taste is much like yours so (just make everything size three ,), obviously I am delighted to read everything ('guess it doesn't show if I am not writing, does it...)

gotta go & will come back

 

[AV_]

... this stone ...

It goes dark (like basically all of them) but then turns right back on. I love that it’s colorless, has a higher crown, and the step pattern!

Thoughts? One of the steps looks like it might have dust on it.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...DiamondDetails&action=newTab&catalogView=true

The clarity characteristics plotted & mentioned (in 'Comments') on the GIA report seem to correspond with the stuff & the widespread 'turbulence' (texture? - is there a better word? GIA calls such faint things 'Clouds' & - the entire Cloud Atlas might be there in diamonds... to dream about!) in the crystal...

I have been looking last evening for one that doesn't turn dark to mention, found two - one 30K WWW one just 7mm WWW ... Then, I am leery of such fine judgements of 'optics' because these videos are not taken in a standard environment, & I am not living in one either (a standard, if they did put one up, would want to be a summary of a life of impressions - my contrarian instinctis goes for glaring extremes instead.... digressing)

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

This one (G VS2) looks potentially interesting but I'm not sure if it windows when tilted/rotated:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11005872

This (F VS2) looks like it has potential but budget is blown!
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD12358562

Potentially interesting but I'm not sure if certain angles have too much obstruction in adjacent facets at the same time:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/2.50-carat-g-color-if-clarity-sku-6399659

A maybe?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/2.50-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-sku-5626831

Maybe a smidge of windowing at tilt angles in the bottom triangles? but does look very 'crisp' to my eyes:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/asscher-cut/2.52-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-6411893

My savior! Thank you! The G IF that’s my FAVORITE one. I was actually looking at it last night. The report also looks great on it. Small table. Depth isn’t too deep. The report is from 2013. I wonder is someone sold it back to the trade.

It’s over budget, but I might sell off more stuff to get it if I can’t find anything better!

 

[OoohShiny]

I'm never sure if it's better to have too few options or too many - with the first, one feels limited but it's easier to make a decision, whereas with the second, one constantly second-guesses the choice made!

 

[Menlikediamondstoo]

I'm never sure if it's better to have too few options or too many - with the first, one feels limited but it's easier to make a decision, whereas with the second, one constantly second-guesses the choice made!

That’s soo true! My next venture is to see what’s out there that’s not listed online! I’ve made soo many mistakes, I have to be sure this time around.