ask for help about my ring (cheated by Zales)

[Ironwoodlady]

1)It spent around 2 hours for me to think about should I buy that diamond in the store. I saw the certificate card showing that it was a diamond with E color (colorless) and SI2 clarity, and I was told that it is a good diamond because its color (E). They knew I was hesitate so that they didn''t tell me their policy (that is no return in this store). I was so tired that even didn''t carefully read the receipt. Then, next day (the ring was still in the store for re-sizing), I went back to the store to return the ring, they showed me the receipt with my initial below those small words saying no return policy. I was shocked. I was assuming that the products can always be returned unless I was told by the merchant. I finally recognized that now the economic situation is so bad that Zales Outlet has to cheat on its customers to sell its products. I called the customer service and argued with their manager back and forth for one week, and I was told that it is my responsibility to read the receipt before I signed it. I believe the store also has responsibility to tell their customers their exclude policy (actually I did ask the employee what the receipt said, and I was told that it was saying the price and another protection plan I bought but no mention about this policy).

After one week''s sadness and rage, I gave up and went to the store to pick up my ring. However,

2)when I asked for the certificate card, I was told that they have to call the insurance company to require one for me. So I brought my ring without a certificate card. But today, when I finally received the certificate card, I was shocked again. As I mentioned above, when I bought this diamond, whose color was shown E in the display cabinet, but the certificate shows the diamond''s color is F. E and F is big different for me and the money I spent. It cost me $5201 before tax. I just feel so disappointed with Zales. I called their customer service, and they told me I only have one choice that is going back to the store and get one exchanged. No refund. Now I don''t know what to do. I need help.

3) I have to go back to the store on Friday to exchange another ring, but I want to do a certificate test, because I don''t trust Zales anymore. Anyone know a good certificate center or lab I can go?

 

[swingirl]

I think that is the usual return policy (exchange only) when you buy from any outlet. Actually a lot of outlets doesn''t even accept exchanges. That''s the point of an outlet, to get rid of their merchandise at a low price without all the customer benefits associated with their regular stores. I hope you will find something you like and get the certificate before you leave.

 

[Sizzle]

Zales is known for poor customer service and shadiness. Sorry you had to go through this! You said you''re going in for the exchange, perhaps you can find something good. It''s my understanding that the outlet stores stock the cast aways, trade ups and returns!!???

 

[Itgirl76]

Outlet stores generally don''t offer returns (even at clothing stores) The most clothing stores do is exchange for merchandise credit...have you maybe gone down that route yet? You could try...I know that you wouln''twant to shop there but maybe you could get something that you like more...

Also if there was a colour issue can''t that be a arguing point?

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 12/31/2008 10:12:10 PM
Author:Ironwoodlady

1)It spent around 2 hours for me to think about should I buy that diamond in the store. I saw the certificate card showing that it was a diamond with E color (colorless) and SI2 clarity, and I was told that it is a good diamond because its color (E). They knew I was hesitate so that they didn''t tell me their policy (that is no return in this store). I was so tired that even didn''t carefully read the receipt. Then, next day (the ring was still in the store for re-sizing), I went back to the store to return the ring, they showed me the receipt with my initial below those small words saying no return policy. I was shocked. I was assuming that the products can always be returned unless I was told by the merchant. I finally recognized that now the economic situation is so bad that Zales Outlet has to cheat on its customers to sell its products. I called the customer service and argued with their manager back and forth for one week, and I was told that it is my responsibility to read the receipt before I signed it. I believe the store also has responsibility to tell their customers their exclude policy (actually I did ask the employee what the receipt said, and I was told that it was saying the price and another protection plan I bought but no mention about this policy).

After one week''s sadness and rage, I gave up and went to the store to pick up my ring. However,

2)when I asked for the certificate card, I was told that they have to call the insurance company to require one for me. So I brought my ring without a certificate card. But today, when I finally received the certificate card, I was shocked again. As I mentioned above, when I bought this diamond, whose color was shown E in the display cabinet, but the certificate shows the diamond''s color is F. E and F is big different for me and the money I spent. It cost me $5201 before tax. I just feel so disappointed with Zales. I called their customer service, and they told me I only have one choice that is going back to the store and get one exchanged. No refund. Now I don''t know what to do. I need help.

3) I have to go back to the store on Friday to exchange another ring, but I want to do a certificate test, because I don''t trust Zales anymore. Anyone know a good certificate center or lab I can go?

You were sold an e color SI2...You can expect nothing less and if they cant produce this they violate their side of their agreement(if its in writing)and you have a genuine argument to return the ring...misreputation of quality....good luck.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Ironwoodlady:

I''m sorry for what you are going through. Have they ever put it in writing that what you bought is an E colour stone? If so, as Jewelerman says, you have a pretty good argument to ask for a refund - through the courts if necessary. If it''s your word against theirs, I''d suggest keeping a relatively low profile and accepting their exchange offer - this time making sure you get what you want.

One thing I would definitely not do is to spend more money to get another grading report on that stone - or any other stone you buy from Zales. There is no universally accepted authority on diamond grading, so Zales would have an easy game to say that "according to xyz the stone is as they represent" and it''d be impossible to prove them wrong.

Best of luck!

 

[makemepretty]

Do you have proof that you purchased an E diamond? If so, then return the ring(the F one) and leave the ring with them and contest it with your charge card. If you paid cash however, I don''t know how you could get them to refund your money. This should be a happy purchase, I''m sorry it''s not going that way so far.

 

[marcy]

Wow, that really stinks. I hope they put "E" in writing so you have something to go on. Good luck.

 

[Ironwoodlady]

I really appreciate with your guy''s suggestion. Unfortunately, I have tried all possible means for refund, but never get to the point.

On Nov 30th, when I was first time there I did see a certificate with the ring shown in E, but after I paid it using Zales Credit card, I didn''t ask for the certificate card because my ring was still there for resizing. Then one week later, I went back to pick up the ring and asked for the certificate, but I was told that they had to require a certificate card for me and will mail it to me. Instead of a real certificate card, I did ask a paper about the certificate card. The clerk then gave me a paper showing what I bought with her signature and date. But I found out that the color was E/F, so I asked her why it is E/F but not E as I bought a E-color diamond. She told me that my ring is E and I will get a certificate shown E ( I have my friend with me and she also remember what the clerk told me). I called the customer service and argued with them about this, but they insisted that they presented me a correct information and I can not get refund, the only choice for me is going back to the store and exchange my ring with another one they prepared (they told me it will be a D color, SI2 diamond with same weight 1.01 Carat). I told them how I could trust their product after all of these happened. So the customer service manager offered me another free certificate test by any other certificate lab with GIA approved. That''s why I asked you guys to recommend a good lab I can go. The customer service manager also suggested me to call credit card company to request a purchase dispute, and I also tried and the credit card company said whenever I admitted that purchase was done by myself, there is no way for me to dispute that purchase. See, this is Zales company.
Another thing made me very mad is that I called the store to check whether the ring they offered is ready for me to go to exchange, they told me I should not call them anymore (why? I don''t know) and they said they don''t know things about my ring and I have to wait until tomorrow when their manager is there. This is totally different as what I was told by customer service. Customer service said the ring is ready in the store and I can go there anytime to pick it up.
Now the store clerks make me so angry. I feel like they are ruffian who cheated on customers before they buy and turn back to them after they paid.

 

[Magic_Stick]

Try calling the better business bureau. You have a valid argument and it''s worth a shot.

BBB.org

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/1/2009 6:27:08 PM
Author: Ironwoodlady
[snip] So the customer service manager offered me another free certificate test by any other certificate lab with GIA approved. That''s why I asked you guys to recommend a good lab I can go. [snip]

The problem is that - as far as I know - no lab worth its salt will assess mounted stones, and no jeweller would accept a return on a ring where the main stone has been unset and re-set. You could have an appraiser look at it, but I believe it''s unlikely the appraiser will come down to a single colour (or clarity) grade with a set stone, particularly in high-colour stones.

I think Zales have been deceptive and possibly at the edge of misrepresentation, but unfortunately providing proof of that is going to be very difficult. The fact that you have a witness (your friend) is going to be helpful if you want to take this to court; before you consider doing this, see if you are happy with the replacement stone.

 

[ms_claudia]

If your receipt states that stone you paid for is E color then you have a right to return it despite their return policy because they didn''t give you what you paid for which was an F color stone. If your receipt doesn''t specify the E color then you have a problem because you have no proof from Zales that the stone you paid for was E color... You could make a complaint with the Better Business Bureau in your area. If you end up taking this to court I don''t know how useful your friend will be as a witness because it''ll just be your friend''s word against theirs. I''m so sorry this happened to you, I hope it works out. Good luck dear.

 

[Ironwoodlady]

Thank oldmancoyote and ms_Claudia, I just filed a complaint on bbb.org, although I don't even believe they will help me get the refund. The problem is that there is no information about the ring on the receipt. All I have is the paper she gave to me about requesting a certificate card. That paper statemented the color is E/F, and I asked why it is E/F, she answered me it is E. And she also admitted that I was there for a E-color diamond; this is the reason they offered me an exchange.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/1/2009 7:50:46 PM
Author: Ironwoodlady
Thank oldmancoyote and ms_Claudia, I just filed a complaint on bbb.org, although I don''t even believe they will help me get the refund. The problem is that there is no information about the ring on the receipt. All I have is the paper she gave to me about requesting a certificate card. That paper statemented the color is E/F, and I asked why it is E/F, she answered me it is E. And she also admitted that I was there for a E-color diamond; this is the reason they offered me an exchange.

tut tut, shady shady.

The more I hear about Zales, I am amazed ppl still buy from there.

I am very sorry you are having these issues, it does sound as if you have been treated quite unfairly. I''m sorry but with regards to how you paid, What is a Zales credit card?

 

[diamondgirl4382]

I am mostly a lurker on this site, but I just wanted to say that I am so, so sorry this is happening to you. I had a terrible experience with Zales as well, so I completely understand your frustration. I hope that you can get the situation resolved to your satisfaction. They definitely need to improve their customer service, it is the worst I have ever come across.

 

[Ironwoodlady]

Zales credit card is the card we applied at the store and usually have a 10% discount. But Zales credit card actually is from Citi Bank.

No matter what is the outcome, I still would like to thank all of you for understanding what I feel.

 

[Steel]

Hi IWL,

If I have understood correctly, your only written proof refers to E/F quality. Based on that evidence alone you do not have a great case.

If it were me I would follow up the BBB complaint with letters to anybody in Zales who had a postal address confirming that you feel you were misled. You said you understood that you were purchasing a E grade stone (from the info supplied in the display cabinet). The info further supplied to you post-sale mentioned for the first time E/F, which was further clarified to you as being E coloured. Subsequently you were negligently supplied with a F colour stone which is wholly unacceptable. I would mention that you have submitted a preliminary complaint to BBB. Furthermore should they not offer an immediate refund based on your perceived deception you will commission an appraisal and are confident that the stone supplied will not even comply with current standard to conform to an F colourless rating which further illustrates their deception. (I would add this bit on but don''t unless you agree with me. It is based on the standard scepticism that an uncertified stone rarely matches anticipated grading- but leave this out if you feel the stone is at least an F, best not to bluff.)

Then tell them in the letter what you want - a full refund, not credit, not exchange a refund. In return you will deliver the ring to the store and rescind your complaint with BBB. You will also (at this stage only) waiver your right to pursue them for compensation. (Don''t bluff here either)

Best of luck.

 

[Ironwoodlady]

hi, Steel,
Thank you for so detailed suggestion. I haven''t get response from BBB. Do you think I should write up a letter and try to ask the clerk signed it as she admitted she was understanding I was there for E colour diamond? and also my friend''s statement showing what she saw and heard when we were in the store for picking up my ring. Then I send these letters to BBB? I can not tell the color by myself. It does look colourless but it could be G colour.
The customer service representative promised me to call me back but she didn''t, and the customer service supervisor gave me a phone number but I can not reach him at all (always lead to message box), and even I leave message to ask him call me back, I still didn''t get any phone call back. (I totally agree with diamondgirl4382 that Zales'' customer service is the worst one I ever experienced.)

 

[got2goldens]

Ironwoodlady,
Don''t know if this will be helpful to you or not, but I had gotten an email right after Thanksgiving from my Mom, giving a list of all stores NOT to buy gift cards from, because the stores listed were all in some sort of financial trouble.
I just double-checked it, Zales was on there. They were listed as closing 82 stores in December, and another 105 after this month.
Maybe that will explain the shady behavior?
I do hope this works out, and I''m really sorry you have to go through this...

Kat

 

[steph72276]

No advice, but just wanted to say sorry you are going through this...

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/2/2009 5:47:22 PM
Author: Steel


Hi IWL,

If I have understood correctly, your only written proof refers to E/F quality. Based on that evidence alone you do not have a great case.

If it were me I would follow up the BBB complaint with letters to anybody in Zales who had a postal address confirming that you feel you were misled. You said you understood that you were purchasing a E grade stone (from the info supplied in the display cabinet). The info further supplied to you post-sale mentioned for the first time E/F, which was further clarified to you as being E coloured. Subsequently you were negligently supplied with a F colour stone which is wholly unacceptable. I would mention that you have submitted a preliminary complaint to BBB. Furthermore should they not offer an immediate refund based on your perceived deception you will commission an appraisal and are confident that the stone supplied will not even comply with current standard to conform to an F colourless rating which further illustrates their deception. (I would add this bit on but don''t unless you agree with me. It is based on the standard scepticism that an uncertified stone rarely matches anticipated grading- but leave this out if you feel the stone is at least an F, best not to bluff.)

Then tell them in the letter what you want - a full refund, not credit, not exchange a refund. In return you will deliver the ring to the store and rescind your complaint with BBB. You will also (at this stage only) waiver your right to pursue them for compensation. (Don''t bluff here either)

Best of luck.

IWL, steel has given you fantastic advice here.
I would absolutely write this letter/email asap and send it to as many people at Zales as you can get an address for.
Keep asking until you get the email for someone highup, don''t give up.

Sometimes you have to go over the heads of local store people who often don''t give a damn about their own job, let alone the consumer.
In 2 different situations recently, members of my family have been buggered around by companies. After getting no love for complaints at local level, both my dad and my father in law emailed the CEO''s of the respective companies.
Within 24 hrs, both had the desired response and things were getting done.
These are different situations to yours but the basics are the same - local managers etc didn''t give a hoot, were giving them the run-around, and the consumer was being wronged. You can bet your bottom that these people will be reprimanded by their bosses now too.

I sincerely hope you have this resolved quickly and to your satisfaction. (hugs)

 

[Ironwoodlady]

Thank arjunajane for your suggestion and encouragement. But I have no idea to get any email address from Zales. Yesterday, I only called the store to ask about the ring they want me to exchange, but I was told that I should not call them anymore ( I was totally dumb). When I argued with the customer service supervisor, I did ask for talking with his supervisor but was rejected.

 

[Steel]

Sorry for the delay responding, I am probably 5 hours ahead of you and was probably in bed when you posted

.

Date: 1/2/2009 8:28:05 PM
Author: Ironwoodlady
hi, Steel,
Thank you for so detailed suggestion. You are very welcome. I haven't get response from BBB. Do you think I should write up a letter Yes and try to ask the clerk signed it as she admitted she was understanding I was there for E colour diamond No? and also my friend's statement showing what she saw and heard when we were in the store for picking up my ring No. Then I send these letters to BBB Just send one letter; your own? I can not tell the color by myself. It does look colourless but it could be G colour I would bet a fiver that it is not even an F, uncerted stones rarely pass muster, but it is up to you if you want to wave this threat at them, I would wager that they know most of if not all of their stones would not stand true against a strict appraiser and as a result will buckle to your refund, but it is up to you. Worse case they call your bluff and you pay for the appraisal, they then give your your refund (and you suck up the appraisal cost) or your sue for your refund plus appraisal costs. (ETA: Worse case #2 it appraises for F or higher colour which does not prove misrepresentation. If it is an F then you are back to square 1 proving that you had an oral agreement with their rep/agent to buy an E not an F. If higher colour than an F you might be happy?)

The customer service representative promised me to call me back but she didn't I am sorry, it is frustrating when you are ignored, and the customer service supervisor gave me a phone number but I can not reach him at all (always lead to message box) Surprise, surprise

, and even I leave message to ask him call me back, I still didn't get any phone call back Again, I am sorry IWL. (I totally agree with diamondgirl4382 that Zales' customer service is the worst one I ever experienced.)

With all due respect I recommend you get moving on this. Stop talking to people, stop trying to make Zales see your point of view and get your position in writing. I will give you a better draft if you need it, but I imagine you are perfectly capable of filling out my points. I would not make my letter to them more than 3/4 of a page. Do not get personal just the facts. Not how somebody said something, just what they said. Top tip - be brief. Then send it to as many people in Zales as you can. Ideally by mail not e-mail but e-mail as a back up is good too.

Stop thinking that anybody cares, Zales clearly want you to go away and the longer you waste talking to them makes any formalised (written) complaint look more like a simple change of mind. At this stage nobody cares what your friend witnessed so do not bother including her at the moment, if you do sue she will be invaluable but not now - just mention you have a witness in your letter and move on to the next point. I know that the sales rep supported your current view at point of sale but times are tough and she would probably have given you a signed photo of the man in the moon to make your sale and equally she will do anything to protect her job. So she probably will not back you up. Do not talk to her at all, it will only give her an opportunity to deny what you said she said!

Write the letter. Tonight. Now...get moving....do I see you typing?

 

[Steel]

 

[Ironwoodlady]

Hi, Steel,
Really appreciate with your help. The other problem for me is time. I am planning to move to other country in the end of Jan. I think if I send the letter by mail will run out my time. So I probably will write up a letter to discribe the process how I was decepted by Zales and fax it to the CEO office of Zales Corp (or call CEO office?) on Monday. And call BBB office and fax one letter to them also.

 

[Ironwoodlady]

Hi, Steel,
I hope I am as strong as you are. Maybe I do need your help about the draft. All I think I am going to write up it is similar as I posted here. Be honest to what I said and communicated with Zales.

 

[Steel]

I understand the pain of moving. I really do. So I understand that you do not need another pain in the a$$ at the moment. But war makes men out of boys, more so than peacetime. I mean that now is the time to deal with this, especially now, before you start to put your life in boxes and cannot even remember the new way home!

Yes, I will help anyway I can. I think you are well able to write this for yourself, perhaps you could do a rough draft then post it (please please please delete your real name, address of the store and anything else too identifying!) for me and I/we(ps) will tidy it up if necessary. I hate to do something for somebody who is perfectly capable and just needs a little encouragement. Try to write it now?

Sending your letter to BBB will not achieve much it is more like documenting that you have sent a letter to Zales, following your initial complaint to them. So do not see that as being proactive towards resolution, more like archiving!

Sending one (1) letter to Zales is not good enough. Not by a long shot. Ok. I get what you mean by using snail mail. I understand your urgency, so how about this. Send the letter as an e-mail attachment to as many e-mail addresses as you can*. BUT also send it by snail mail to all the offices *you can. These e-mails will get the ball rolling for you asap, but a real paper letter is the best in my view. Especially when we are talking over 5k. (Did you look up the addresses like I did on BBB - there are plenty of people to send letters to there!)

IWL, I am much stronger now than I was. But it takes time to learn how to stand up for yourself and even more time to learn how actually be heard and get what you want, one step better is when you stand up, get what you want AND an apology. I try to live by this- we cannot control how others treat us, only how we react to it. So react with your laptop, with your words and get yourself a big slice of justice. It does not matter if you do not win (and you should here) it matters that you stand up for yourself.

ETA: Zales e-mail and Zales offices - I don't mean sending the letter to everybody with an e-mail address!

 

[Ironwoodlady]

Hi, Steel,
Thanks. I am writting a letter and will post here. But I still can not find address from BBB. would you copy the search website to me? Thanks.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I am so sorry that this is happening to you. I just wanted to add that you shouldn't expect BBB to do anything. I was frauded by a contractor - I gave a deposit and they disappeared and I lost my money. I did everything in my power and found others who have been frauded by the contractor (their cases were 100 times more severe than mine). I filed a complaint with BBB but they just act as a mediator and have no authority or power. If the vendor does not respond to them, nothing happens other than a case in their BBB records. If the vendor doesn't care about the bad record, they will not be inclined to act upon it.

 

[Steel]

Good , get typing.

I really do not want to copy/paste or post the link. I am not familiar with the locations and would hate to point the finger at an innocent company. Go to BBB, search by business or charity type in Zales; HQ is the first hit with lots of others beneath it. Or could another (US) poster help out here?

Please be careful when you post, put X''s over or delete any identifying info. Area, address, names etc. Please be careful doing this. Remember we are in a public space here.

Get typing.