Are you worried about the Coronavirus?

[missy]

We just lost a relative to Covid who happened to be in her sixties. She had no known underlying conditions. She and her husband decided that going on vacation to Florida, Texas and then ending their trip in Vegas over several weeks was a risk they were willing to take. Three hot zones in their very early stages one after the other. The risk, sadly, was too great.
Just a sad thing all around.
I only hope they didn't spread it.

I’m so sorry

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I’m so sorry

Thanks, missy.
Me too, and doubly so, because I'm also a little disgusted by it and feel guilty.

 

[missy]

Thanks, missy.
Me too, and doubly so, because I'm also a little disgusted by it and feel guilty.

Don’t feel guilty. Your feelings are valid. Though no one deserves Covid 19 not matter how foolish their behavior might be. But I totally understand how you are feeling. I’m so sorry. Terrible situation all around.

 

[MamaBee]

We just lost a relative to Covid who happened to be in her sixties. She had no known underlying conditions. She and her husband decided that going on vacation to Florida, Texas and then ending their trip in Vegas over several weeks was a risk they were willing to take. Three hot zones in their very early stages one after the other. The risk, sadly, was too great.
Just a sad thing all around.
I only hope they didn't spread it.

I’m so sorry @ItsMainelyYou That’s heartbreaking....

 

[VRBeauty]

We are traveling to two family gatherings this weekend: two long-delayed memorials for young men who left us too soon, one on each side of the family.

My boyfriend’s family includes a lot gen X-ers who are openly skeptical of covid measures and very lax about social distancing guidelines, including some who will be flying in from other states. Fortunately it will be a graveside service, with no reception following. My sweetie and I can easily limit our exposure here - and we won’t be around for the many informal visits and get-together that will take place during the rest of the weekend.

My family is much smaller, and most have been following social distancing guidelines, generally. The memorial get-together is at a remote location and will involve four households sharing three spaces, and one planned meal. So low-probability individuals, but a more prolonged get-together with more opportunities for exposure.

From a personal risk perspective I have to admit I’m somewhat concerned about my family’s gathering. I know how easy it is to drop safeguards when you’re with people you’ve known so well for so long.

It’ll be nice when things return to normal and we no longer have to worry about these things, but I fear “normal” is a long ways off.

 

[MamaBee]

CDC documents say states should prepare to distribute Covid-19 vaccines as soon as late October - NewsBreak

(CNN) — The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has told public health officials around the United States to prepare to distribute a potential coronavirus vaccine as soon as late October. It also provided planning scenarios to help states prepare. The documents were posted by The New...

www.newsbreakapp.com

 

[Calliecake]

@ItsMainelyYou , I’m so sorry. My condolences to you and your family.

 

[AGBF]

We just lost a relative to Covid who happened to be in her sixties. She had no known underlying conditions. She and her husband decided that going on vacation to Florida, Texas and then ending their trip in Vegas over several weeks was a risk they were willing to take. Three hot zones in their very early stages one after the other. The risk, sadly, was too great.
Just a sad thing all around.

I only hope they didn't spread it.

I am sorry for your loss and their suffering.

 

[voce]

He didn't take any risks and they do not know how he contracted it. At home, completely sip, family and caregivers coming to him ( distancing & masked). He did have to go to specialists and hospital, though. It is thought he might have contracted it there. (Masks are mandatory here,and evidently he was super careful...still puzzled where and how)

Where and how? No one's able to prove where. Could've been at home or at the specialists' or hospital. How? No mask blocks the viral load 100%. Must have contracted it from the viral load that made it past the wearer's mask.

Masks greatly reduce the risk of transmission. Masks do not eliminate transmission.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Where and how? No one's able to prove where. Could've been at home or at the specialists' or hospital. How? No mask blocks the viral load 100%. Must have contracted it from the viral load that made it past the wearer's mask.

Masks greatly reduce the risk of transmission. Masks do not eliminate transmission.

I know. It's still unusual not to know where one has contracted it, though, for someone who chooses to have very very reduced interactions.

If both parties are masked, the risk is significantly reduced. It is not zero, though.
It has never been presented this way.

Very uncomfortable reminder of this fact.

 

[Arcadian]

Thanks, missy.
Me too, and doubly so, because I'm also a little disgusted by it and feel guilty.

(hugs) I feel awful for you and your family. But, you have a right to feel disgusted, because quite frankly, their willful ignorance is what did her in. The unfortunate issue is that this ignorance started at the head of the snake.

The United states had PLENTY of warning, and we saw what was happening in other countries.

Few days ago on the news they had a whole thing about people coming down here on vacation. They're not quarantining, they're barely wearing a mask (except at disney and even they, doing what they can to cirumvent that) because its their vacation and they want to make the most of it.

OK, well now you got corona as your vacation souvenir....

Sadly those who believe its not a big deal don't take it seriously until they get it. Then its kinda too late...

You're feeling a lot of emotions and its OK to feel them, even the guilt of being disgusted.

 

[OboeGal]

CDC documents say states should prepare to distribute Covid-19 vaccines as soon as late October - NewsBreak

(CNN) — The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has told public health officials around the United States to prepare to distribute a potential coronavirus vaccine as soon as late October. It also provided planning scenarios to help states prepare. The documents were posted by The New...

www.newsbreakapp.com

I don't want to be Doomsday Dora here, but I would be very, very cautious about this. I've been following the vaccine research pretty closely, and based on the opinions of a whole lot of professionals in vaccine research, immunology, and infectious disease research, broad distribution of a vaccine by October would be taking far too fast a track through what is supposed to be stage lll of trials, which are critical mainly for determining efficacy, especially in high-risk groups like the elderly. Stages l and ll are mainly about safety, although not a complete picture, and much less about efficacy, whereas stage lll is about efficacy mainly (and also looking for rarer, more obscure events around side effects and safety). Done correctly, it is the longest of the three stages, and establishes efficacy not only in the young with robust immune responses, but in those who mount less of a robust response to a vaccine, such as the elderly, those with immune issues, and those who are obese. It really can't be rushed if done correctly. To establish these adequately should take closer to end of winter/beginning of spring next year at the earliest. If incorrect assumptions about efficacy are made, or questions about it overlooked for the purposes of speeding it out there, the effects when people take it and resume "normal life" not knowing they are not adequately protected against severe disease or death.......well, carnage. You get the picture, I imagine.

My HOPE is that they are simply trying to push the states to get their storage and distribution infrastructures in place, thinking that, like with most things bureaucratic, if they tell states October, states will actually manage to be ready by, say, February! I also frankly don't care if it's just an empty statement to manipulate the public, for whatever purposes. My REAL fear is that the vaccine WILL actually be pushed out that fast regardless due to reasons other than good science and good public health practices. Suffice it to say that, if it's released then widely, I will absolutely not trust it until it's proved itself over many, many months.

 

[OboeGal]

(hugs) I feel awful for you and your family. But, you have a right to feel disgusted, because quite frankly, their willful ignorance is what did her in. The unfortunate issue is that this ignorance started at the head of the snake.

The United states had PLENTY of warning, and we saw what was happening in other countries.

Few days ago on the news they had a whole thing about people coming down here on vacation. They're not quarantining, they're barely wearing a mask (except at disney and even they, doing what they can to cirumvent that) because its their vacation and they want to make the most of it.

OK, well now you got corona as your vacation souvenir....

Sadly those who believe its not a big deal don't take it seriously until they get it. Then its kinda too late...

You're feeling a lot of emotions and its OK to feel them, even the guilt of being disgusted.

Ah, yes......vacationers. This is apparently what is causing much of western and northern Europe their recent spikes, as well. According to my DH, Europeans are REALLY obsessed with their vacations and traveling, so whereas they otherwise have been for the most part listening to science and compliant, when summer vacation time came, way too many just couldn't skip a year - including some of his family. He doesn't understand it and is frustrated by it. There should be a vaccine sometime next year, for crying out loud, people! This isn't forever, and you certainly won't die if you miss one season of sports or do a "staycation" for just one freakin' summer.

It's like western society is utterly failing one big, epic marshmallow test. Of course, here in the US, we're "winning" at that.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Remember the outbreak from the Maine wedding? It has now spread to the York County Jail system/Maplecrest rehab. It turns out it was an evangelical Baptist preacher, who tells his congregation Covid is a hoax, that was officiating that gathering...there are now 149 total cases(72 at the jail, 19 at Maplecrest Rehab) with 3 deaths, so far.
It made Rachel Maddow.

Trump camp politicizing coronavirus has deadly consequences for followers, United States

Rachel Maddow highlights the example of Maine pastor Todd Bell, the center of a deadly coronavirus superspreader event who refuses to follow scientific guidance on controlling the spread of the virus because he believes the Trump campaign's rhetoric about a Democratic plot against going to church.

www.msnbc.com

 

[Arcadian]

I don't want to be Doomsday Dora here, but I would be very, very cautious about this. I've been following the vaccine research pretty closely, and based on the opinions of a whole lot of professionals in vaccine research, immunology, and infectious disease research, broad distribution of a vaccine by October would be taking far too fast a track through what is supposed to be stage lll of trials, which are critical mainly for determining efficacy, especially in high-risk groups like the elderly. Stages l and ll are mainly about safety, although not a complete picture, and much less about efficacy, whereas stage lll is about efficacy mainly (and also looking for rarer, more obscure events around side effects and safety). Done correctly, it is the longest of the three stages, and establishes efficacy not only in the young with robust immune responses, but in those who mount less of a robust response to a vaccine, such as the elderly, those with immune issues, and those who are obese. It really can't be rushed if done correctly. To establish these adequately should take closer to end of winter/beginning of spring next year at the earliest. If incorrect assumptions about efficacy are made, or questions about it overlooked for the purposes of speeding it out there, the effects when people take it and resume "normal life" not knowing they are not adequately protected against severe disease or death.......well, carnage. You get the picture, I imagine.

My HOPE is that they are simply trying to push the states to get their storage and distribution infrastructures in place, thinking that, like with most things bureaucratic, if they tell states October, states will actually manage to be ready by, say, February! I also frankly don't care if it's just an empty statement to manipulate the public, for whatever purposes. My REAL fear is that the vaccine WILL actually be pushed out that fast regardless due to reasons other than good science and good public health practices. Suffice it to say that, if it's released then widely, I will absolutely not trust it until it's proved itself over many, many months.

I'm going to give my thoughts and, maybe a bit of info that I learned 2nd hand;

Its my belief that CDC will say in October that they have enough safety data to proceed with a real vaccine. I say this for a few reasons.

1. Third phase began in July, they started with 10k and ramped to 30Kat each location. Thats a whole lot of people.

2. By end of September most people in the study (myself included) will have gotten their booster shot. There will be at least enough data to decide if the symptoms that most have (which are minimal and on par with what some experience with flu shot) is safe enough to proceed.

3, This announcement in October will likely be the October Surprise.

My feeling is that while they will make that announcement, they may not go forward with an actual implementation of that plan until December because things have to be coordinated ya know? I do believe states are being pushed to get their ducks in a row but it will take time and money. Goverment, no matter where it is, is like a damn turtle sometimes.

The study I'm in is slated to last 2 years. I don't think it will last that long.

I still will not know what I have until sometime after the 2nd booster. (I will go test myself if they don't end the study by then)

 

[Calliecake]

Thank you @OboeGal for posting your thoughts on the virus and the vaccine. I’m concerned about the vaccine being fast tracked without the proper clinical trials.

I heard something about one of the possible vaccines needing to be stored at temperatures of -20 or -70 degrees. Special equipment would be needed for storing the vaccine. Have you heard this @OboeGal? I hate even writing this if it’s misinformation. It’s hard to tell what is fact or fiction right now.

 

[dazzle66]

Thank you @OboeGal for posting your thoughts on the virus and the vaccine. I’m concerned about the vaccine being fast tracked without the proper clinical trials.

I heard something about one of the possible vaccines needing to be stored at temperatures of -20 or -70 degrees. Special equipment would be needed for storing the vaccine. Have you heard this @OboeGal? I hate even writing this if it’s misinformation. It’s hard to tell what is fact or fiction right now.

A quick note about storage: -20 degrees Celsius is your standard kitchen freezer. -80 degrees Celsius is standard long-term lab storage and these freezers are in wide use and circulation.

Also @Arcadian Your study will definitely go for 2 years. They will continue to monitor you per the signed consent documents when you enrolled even if the vaccine is fast-tracked and distributed later this year.

I'm a lab manager for a pediatric gene therapy research lab and have been involved with several vaccine studies.

 

[Calliecake]

Thank you for the information @dazzle66 .

 

[OboeGal]

Remember the outbreak from the Maine wedding? It has now spread to the York County Jail system/Maplecrest rehab. It turns out it was an evangelical Baptist preacher, who tells his congregation Covid is a hoax, that was officiating that gathering...there are now 149 total cases(72 at the jail, 19 at Maplecrest Rehab) with 3 deaths, so far.
It made Rachel Maddow.

Trump camp politicizing coronavirus has deadly consequences for followers, United States

Rachel Maddow highlights the example of Maine pastor Todd Bell, the center of a deadly coronavirus superspreader event who refuses to follow scientific guidance on controlling the spread of the virus because he believes the Trump campaign's rhetoric about a Democratic plot against going to church.

www.msnbc.com

That "preacher" should be brought up on charges of public endangerment, at the very least.

 

[OboeGal]

I'm going to give my thoughts and, maybe a bit of info that I learned 2nd hand;

Its my belief that CDC will say in October that they have enough safety data to proceed with a real vaccine. I say this for a few reasons.

1. Third phase began in July, they started with 10k and ramped to 30Kat each location. Thats a whole lot of people.

2. By end of September most people in the study (myself included) will have gotten their booster shot. There will be at least enough data to decide if the symptoms that most have (which are minimal and on par with what some experience with flu shot) is safe enough to proceed.

3, This announcement in October will likely be the October Surprise.

My feeling is that while they will make that announcement, they may not go forward with an actual implementation of that plan until December because things have to be coordinated ya know? I do believe states are being pushed to get their ducks in a row but it will take time and money. Goverment, no matter where it is, is like a damn turtle sometimes.

The study I'm in is slated to last 2 years. I don't think it will last that long.

I still will not know what I have until sometime after the 2nd booster. (I will go test myself if they don't end the study by then)

The problem is much less in evaluation of safety at this point; you are correct that by fall, they will have mostly "filled out" the picture around that, as almost all adverse reactions would have been experienced and reported by then, as those occur quickly after receiving the injections. What I'm seeing researchers concerned about is whether the question of efficacy will have been answered adequately. A large enough number of recipients from enough of a diversity of risk groups have to have received however many initial shots and boosters needed; then they have to wait an adequate length of time for the immune system to respond completely, which will take as long as a month for some of the candidates; then they have to give it long enough to be reasonably certain that enough people from each of those risk groups have been exposed naturally and see what happens, in addition to things such as measure antibodies. Just checking blood markers, etc., for expected immune responses isn't enough; they have to see that it actually works in real life to have adequate confidence. There's no short cut to that short of something called challenge trials, where volunteers don't just sign up to get the vaccine, but also to be definitely deliberately exposed to enough of an inoculating dose of the virus to be sure that they would get sick if they were not vaccinated, then watch what happens. That is something that is very rarely considered ethical in medical practice or research, and while some have been very vocal in calling for such trials, and there are even groups that have set up lists where people could sign up to volunteer, none of the candidate companies has been willing to seriously consider this because we don't have a really effective treatment yet, in case the vaccine was NOT effective and the volunteers become ill.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thank you @OboeGal for posting your thoughts on the virus and the vaccine. I’m concerned about the vaccine being fast tracked without the proper clinical trials.

I don't understand you liberals. First you guys wanted a vaccine as soon as possible but now you are afraid that it'll be here before the election.

 

[OboeGal]

I don't understand you liberals. First you guys wanted a vaccine as soon as possible but now you are afraid that it'll be here before the election.

1) We're not talking about "liberals" - we're talking about concerns held by professional experts who spend their careers doing this work, and by regular folk like me who are interested in that research and follow it closely. It has literally zero, zip, nada to do with political affiliation.

2) My concern is not how it affects the election, or the timing related to the election. My concern is that a vaccine widely available by fall will be rushed, whether or not we are having an election; there will not have been sufficient time to have confidence that it provides enough immunity to protect vulnerable populations, but people will assume it does and run around without precautions. To not rush it, an appropriate timeline would be sometime in the first half of 2021 at the earliest, and experts would think that even if we were to subsequently have an election afterward.

3) People regardless of political affiliation want a safe and effective vaccine as soon as possible, not just anything called a vaccine that doesn't actually work, especially if it catastrophically deludes people into no longer taking precautions while not realizing that they're not actually protected.

4) There are many reasons why a vaccine may be rushed that are worrisome, and the most likely scenario is that there are multiple reasons motivating multiple individuals and organizations and entities. There is the obvious motive that people want to save lives and may not be doing a good job of risk analysis about rushing the process. There are obvious political motives around the election for some. There are obvious motives from some wealthy and business-oriented factions who have undue power and influence, especially from certain industries in particular who are suffering, to get this over with so they can make money again. There are obvious motives by the companies developing the vaccines themselves; vaccine development is very expensive, and the longer the trial process goes on, the longer they go on paying for development and manufacturing without actually making any money back on it. There are obvious motives by those in government at the state and federal level who are concerned about the continuing costs of unemployment payouts.

99.9% of life is gray and complex. You miss a lot when you try to make everything black-and-white and easy.

 

[Dancing Fire]

On the other hand if they take their sweet time more people will die. Either way I'm not gonna take the vaccine shot. I don't like getting injected with any type of drugs unless I have to.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Ah, yes......vacationers. This is apparently what is causing much of western and northern Europe their recent spikes, as well. According to my DH, Europeans are REALLY obsessed with their vacations and traveling, so whereas they otherwise have been for the most part listening to science and compliant, when summer vacation time came, way too many just couldn't skip a year - including some of his family. He doesn't understand it and is frustrated by it. There should be a vaccine sometime next year, for crying out loud, people! This isn't forever, and you certainly won't die if you miss one season of sports or do a "staycation" for just one freakin' summer.

It's like western society is utterly failing one big, epic marshmallow test. Of course, here in the US, we're "winning" at that.

I hear you on the vacationing.
However many European countries rely so heavily economically on the vacation industry that governments were just too afraid of too strongly discouraging it. Bearing in mind the total lockdown for two months and the heavy heavy government aides that still couldn't save all businesses.

I'm definitely in the "err on the side of caution" Camp, but several family members who are directly affected (hotel owners, restaurant owners) have understandably a very different opinion. We're starting to get around the six months marks, where many people have just used up their savings and are getting more and more desperate.

 

[dk168]

Just like a snap of the fingers, bam, and England is back to tougher social gathering measures to prevent a second wave from next week, hey ho!

DK

 

[missy]

Just like a snap of the fingers, bam, and England is back to tougher social gathering measures to prevent a second wave from next week, hey ho!

DK

And the USA is not behaving as wisely or conservatively. Our malls have now gone to 50% occupancy allowed and movie theaters open and indoor restaurants etc. We shall see. I’m guessing you fare better than we do. We haven’t learned from the past. Sigh :/

 

[Arcadian]

We've gone to phase II opening. We're hardly ready but hey....

I'm working to convince my husband to not go to a conference right now. And its not like he doesn't know better but he thinks there's enough in place to prevent or minimize transmission. This is a science conference y'all...why they're doing this is another story but...yeah....

I told him if he gets sick he's on his own because I can't visit him in the hospital.
I told showed him the story in Maine where the little itty bitty wedding sickened near 150 people and killed 3.

And I told him he can't come back here until he gets a Covid test done thats negative. That is NOT negotiable.

Because I don't know if I got vaccine or placebo, I still have to be safe about it.

 

[BMI]

This article was linked by a chemist friend of my husband. It describes an interesting theory about how Covid-19 impacts the body.
The following paragraph is from the article.

Covid-19 stands out for both the scale of its global impact and the apparent randomness of its many symptoms. Physicians have struggled to understand the disease and come up with a unified theory for how it works. Though as of yet unproven, the bradykinin hypothesis provides such a theory. And like all good hypotheses, it also provides specific, testable predictions — in this case, actual drugs that could provide relief to real patients.

A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19 — and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged

A closer look at the Bradykinin hypothesis

elemental.medium.com

@OboeGal Have you heard anything regarding this theory during your research?

 

[Snowdrop13]

Ah, yes......vacationers. This is apparently what is causing much of western and northern Europe their recent spikes, as well. According to my DH, Europeans are REALLY obsessed with their vacations and traveling, so whereas they otherwise have been for the most part listening to science and compliant, when summer vacation time came, way too many just couldn't skip a year - including some of his family. He doesn't understand it and is frustrated by it. There should be a vaccine sometime next year, for crying out loud, people! This isn't forever, and you certainly won't die if you miss one season of sports or do a "staycation" for just one freakin' summer.

It's like western society is utterly failing one big, epic marshmallow test. Of course, here in the US, we're "winning" at that.

Completely agree! I live in Scotland and am utterly shocked by the number of colleagues and friends who are now just jetting off all round Europe, including to some places where they know they’ll have to isolate for 2 weeks on return! Madness. Why is everyone so entitled these days?

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Completely agree! I live in Scotland and am utterly shocked by the number of colleagues and friends who are now just jetting off all round Europe, including to some places where they know they’ll have to isolate for 2 weeks on return! Madness. Why is everyone so entitled these days?

I'm with you @Snowdrop13 .

And I might add that I'm utterly tired of selfish behaviorbehavior from all possible groups of people.

- We've been invited to : a 100 th birthday bash (!!) - around 80 people

- a 77th birthday bash (birthday boy is diabetic) around 20 people

-several (more than 5 off the too if my head) first communions with grandparents present etc etc.
- several get-togethers hosted by people over 65

Every time the old (in the case above VERY old) grandparents will meet with the college age grandkids.
We're in PARIS where numbers among young people are sky high. Our hospital system is OK, because it's the young and healthy for the moment - death and icu care rates are low.

Who in their right mind thinks it's ok to mix college age kids and schoolkids with 100 year old granny???


When I politely declined I was flooded with phone calls and people who tried to convince us to come.
It's the same around me - my friends tell me the same. In many cases they went and attended, because the family pressure was so high.
My MIL has ridiculed me several times on the WhatsApp family group for not wanting to put 77y/o diabetic FIL at risk.

We've shut down our economy for THEM - the old and vulnerable, those with comorbidities.
I happy do my share. I think it's important. But if people are actively putting themselves at risk I'm starting to get very angry. And my motivation for the next lockdown is way down.

I'm so frustrated.