Are you vaccinated for COVID 19?

[LilAlex]

Good move.
We put that into our advanced directives as well.

Ventilators are lifesavers for many pneumonias and for some cardiac scenarios (e.g., acute pulmonary edema). Do NOT put "do not intubate" into your advanced directives unless you really know what you are talking about (or are chronically ill and/or 80+ and do not want any aggressive care no matter what). Anyone who knows medicine will tell yout that this is an arbitrary distinction. If you have an easily-treatable community-acquired pneumonia or flash pulmonary edema (for example), you can be on a "vent" for a few days and bounce back 100%. If you are on a "vent" for ARDS from COVID, that's in it for the long haul. Many get better -- and many have permanent lung injury but not from being ventilated. OTOH, many patients with COVID who are not intubated/ventilated or even are not hospitalized have life-long lung injury.

 

[Matata]

Anyone who knows medicine will tell yout that this is an arbitrary distinction. If you have an easily-treatable community-acquired pneumonia or flash pulmonary edema (for example), you can be on a "vent" for a few days and bounce back 100%. If you are on a "vent" for ARDS from COVID, that's in it for the long haul. Many get better -- and many have permanent lung injury but not from being ventilated. OTOH, many patients with COVID who are not intubated/ventilated or even are not hospitalized have life-long lung injury.

For clarification, there is a specific category on my advance directive directly related to intubation for covid. I did some research and found info that states that between 30% to 50% of intubated covid patients die. There are doctors quoted as saying that intubation due to covid is a death sentence. My concern is surviving intubation with permanent health issues negatively impacting my quality of life and then there's nothing I can do but grin and bear it. At least I can choose death over the risk of surviving with long term or life long debilitation. If I were under 50 yrs of age, I might think differently.

 

[LilAlex]

For clarification, there is a specific category on my advance directive directly related to intubation for covid. I did some research and found info that states that between 30% to 50% of intubated covid patients die. There are doctors quoted as saying that intubation due to covid is a death sentence. My concern is surviving intubation with permanent health issues negatively impacting my quality of life and then there's nothing I can do but grin and bear it. At least I can choose death over the risk of surviving with long term or life long debilitation. If I were under 50 yrs of age, I might think differently.

Makes sense.

Much of the ICU had a lower survival rate than that pre-COVID so those numbers -- 30 - 50% mortality -- do not strike me as particularly dire for an ICU patient. That's an awful situation to be in, but it's "routine awful" in a major hospital; numbers like that usually will not influence a family to change course on aggressiveness of care. Even 80 - 90% mortality seldom moves the needle, tbh.

 

[Dancing Fire]

So long.
Nice knowing ya, dude.

Kenny
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I still don't have any symptoms after 8 days returning for a mask less bar. Can I come to visit you?

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Kenny
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I still don't have any symptoms after 8 days returning for a mask less bar. Can I come to visit you?

I wish you could visit us but our boarder is going to be glued shut for months and months

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Gary is feeling fine this morning - got up at 5am after a very early night
i guess that means his immune system is shot

If it makes you feel any better hun I had zero reaction too!

In fact I was probably a bit more up and go than usual! I've heard rumours it means the vaccine is not working so well in me but who knows!

 

[Dancing Fire]

I wish you could visit us but our boarder is going to be glued shut for months and months

What, with 1 case?. Your government is crazy!

 

[missy]

Ventilators are lifesavers for many pneumonias and for some cardiac scenarios (e.g., acute pulmonary edema). Do NOT put "do not intubate" into your advanced directives unless you really know what you are talking about (or are chronically ill and/or 80+ and do not want any aggressive care no matter what). Anyone who knows medicine will tell yout that this is an arbitrary distinction. If you have an easily-treatable community-acquired pneumonia or flash pulmonary edema (for example), you can be on a "vent" for a few days and bounce back 100%. If you are on a "vent" for ARDS from COVID, that's in it for the long haul. Many get better -- and many have permanent lung injury but not from being ventilated. OTOH, many patients with COVID who are not intubated/ventilated or even are not hospitalized have life-long lung injury.

Yes we know all about it and have the appropriate instructions in our advanced directives. Thanks for your concern @LilAlex.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

What, with 1 case?. Your government is crazy!

Crazy = yes but for reasons ww arnt allowed to discuss here anymore

Its kind of ballooned now
we have 10,000 close contacts self isolating, 3 people in hospital (not icu) 123 odd cases i think
Worryingly two universities, about 5 high schools, a big church, supermarkets, a couple of flights, petrol stations, large hardwear stores, k-marts, KFCs etc etc are on the list where infectious people have been

Seems it (the virus) slipped out through the managed isolation quareteen hotel, this first case than caused the lock down wasn't actually the first case in the chain, but thankfully that person who had no connection to the boarder, went and had a test. Unfortunatly that person had been out touring the Coromandle but the virus may have been circulating in the community since the begining of August

But hay on saturday they vacinated 1% of the population (how dear they crow about this)
And no, NZ hasn't ordered the booster shots yet, why ??????

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

If it makes you feel any better hun I had zero reaction too!

In fact I was probably a bit more up and go than usual! I've heard rumours it means the vaccine is not working so well in me but who knows!

And you are a lot younger than him
im sure it will still offer you both protection
Im very worried about you all over there
those protests in Melbourne (?) Looked terrible and looks like a super spreader event if those protesters arnt vacinated

 

[missy]

No, Vaccinated People Are Not ‘Just as Likely’ to Spread the Coronavirus as Unvaccinated People

This has become a common refrain among the cautious—and it’s wrong.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Dancing Fire]

My DD#2 say there are 7 unvaccinated coworkers on her hospital floor.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Hubs got his second dose of AZ on Thursday!!! So far so good but with AZ I'll feel much better about things in 2 weeks time!

Super mild side effects this time. He was just tired and went to bed two hours early. Was back to normal the next day.

 

[missy]

My DD#2 say there are 7 unvaccinated coworkers on her hospital floor.

Hope they are fired soon.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i can finally say i am too now after getting my 2nd shot on Saturday as a walk in after work
i wasn't due for anothet week but govt advice due to the present Auckland fuelled outbreak is to get the 2nd asap so it was 5 weeks not 6
arm was really sore but like Mr MellowYellow i was just real tired
my arm is only sore at the injection site if i touch it and its hot to the touch
otherwise back to normal

i had 6 people trying to fix my name as im reordered wrongly in the covid vacine register so hopefully that's fixed
this time they made me wait 30 min due to my ......possible cherry allergy
they made me sit right at the front in the observation section like a naughty kid at school

...there is no cheery in the vacine

 

[MamaBee]

i can finally say i am too now after getting my 2nd shot on Saturday as a walk in after work
i wasn't due for anothet week but govt advice due to the present Auckland fuelled outbreak is to get the 2nd asap so it was 5 weeks not 6
arm was really sore but like Mr MellowYellow i was just real tired
my arm is only sore at the injection site if i touch it and its hot to the touch
otherwise back to normal

i had 6 people trying to fix my name as im reordered wrongly in the covid vacine register so hopefully that's fixed
this time they made me wait 30 min due to my ......possible cherry allergy
they made me sit right at the front in the observation section like a naughty kid at school

...there is no cheery in the vacine

I’m so happy you got it @Daisys and Diamonds! I know how anxious you were to get it..

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hope they are fired soon.

How soon we forget. Maybe they should had been fired a yr ago for risking their lives by taking care of the sick before the vaccine came out.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@Daisys and Diamonds name changes and getting a Vaccine Certificate through Medicare has been the most harrowing ordeal for Aussies getting the covid vaccine. NOT the side effects.

Half the people I know have spent hours on the phone to get their names to match so the document will feed through.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

@Daisys and Diamonds name changes and getting a Vaccine Certificate through Medicare has been the most harrowing ordeal for Aussies getting the covid vaccine. NOT the side effects.

Half the people I know have spent hours on the phone to get their names to match so the document will feed through.

that is concerning
honestly i have never ever been Nicole !

sloppy work on someone's part

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Hope they are fired soon.

they will be here
also teachers
this is probably the best thing the PM has done all pandemic

Job termination and no compensation likely for unvaccinated workers

Workers who refuse to take the Covid-19 vaccine will likely have their contracts terminated and not be entitled to any compensation, employment law experts say.

www.stuff.co.nz

I’m so happy you got it @Daisys and Diamonds! I know how anxious you were to get it..

thank you @MamaBee

 

[CathB]

Hope they are fired soon.

I hope not.

 

[missy]

I hope not.

@CathB Unless one cannot medically get vaccinated there is not an acceptable excuse. Those refusing vaccination who are medically cleared to get vaccinated are keeping the pandemic going. Are causing more people to get ill and to die. Innocent human beings like children and the elderly and the immunocompromised. Other health care workers who are the true heroes. Who are there in the front lines working selflessly to save others. They deserve protection from this horrible disease. They do not deserve to be put at greater risk. There is absolutely no valid excuse to refuse vaccination unless one has a valid medical reason. Not the ridiculous reasons they give. Unacceptable. And the fact you and @Dancing Fire think it is OK is a big part of the reason we are still dealing with so many dying. I hope you don't feel good about that.

"Over 100,000 Americans are currently hospitalized with Covid-19, and over 1,000 people are dying every day. These are people from all walks of life - rich and poor, white collar and blue collar, old and young. But according to an estimate from the Kaiser Family Foundation, over 98% of them have one thing in common: despite the ready availability of Covid vaccines, they chose not to get them.

The fact that Covid-19 has become a “pandemic of the unvaccinated” has been well-covered, and it dominates communications from public health authorities. However, millions of Americans who are eligible for shots still choose not to get them, and FDA approval of Pfizer’s vaccine doesn’t seem to have changed the rate of vaccinations nor people’s views on getting it. Some of those sitting out the shot are adamantly opposed to the vaccine while others claim to still be on the fence. Here’s a look at the adults who are still refusing to get a Covid vaccine, according to an analysis of nationwide polls.

21%​

OF 18-29-YEAR-OLDS SAY THEY WILL NEVER BE VACCINATED​

According to polling from the Kaiser Family Foundation, this age group also has the lowest percentage of adults who’ve received at least one vaccine dose (57%). (Only 41% of parents of kids ages 12 to 17 say their child has received at least one dose.) ​

​

This age group is followed closely by 30-49 year-olds, 19% of whom say they will never be vaccinated and 58% of whom report at least one dose. ​

​

18%​

OF MEN SAY THEY WILL NEVER GET A SHOT​

A gender gap in vaccine uptake has emerged and persisted in recent months, according to Kaiser. Fewer women say they will refuse the shot—10%—and are much more likely (71%) to report being vaccinated than men (63%). ​

​

According to data collected by the CDC, which covers around 90% of shots given, 53% of recipients are women and 47% men.​

​

46%​

OF REPUBLICANS HAVE NOT YET BEEN VACCINATED​

Polls consistently identify Republicans as the group least likely to report being vaccinated and the most likely to say they will never get a shot. ​

​

While the proportion has changed over time—42% said they would probably or definitely not get a vaccine when available in December, 29% said they would never get one in March and in Kaiser’s most recent polling this fell to 20%—the group still has one of the highest rates of vaccine refusal among groups polled. ​

​

Democrats consistently poll in the other direction, with just 5% saying they will never be vaccinated and 86% reporting having at least one dose.​

​

44%​

OF WHITE EVANGELICAL PROTESTANTS HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED​

This religious group, along with Hispanic Protestants, are the least likely to say they have or plan to be vaccinated, according to polling by the Public Religion Research Institute. ​

​

This remains unchanged from polling in March, though both reported double-digit moves towards vaccination. 24% of white evangelical Protestants say they will never get vaccinated, the highest percentage among religious groups polled. ​

​

But, as another group proves, these numbers aren’t set in stone: in March, only 56% of Hispanic Catholics had or planned to get a vaccine dose, but by June—which was even before the Pope urged everyone to get vaccinated and the FDA fully approved Pfizer’s shot—that number was 80%, which among religious groups is second only to Jews (85%).​

GETTY IMAGES

33%​

OF RESIDENTS IN SOUTH DAKOTA SAY THEY WON’T GET THE VACCINE​

According to polling by Morning Consult, South Dakota has the highest share of residents who say they are unwilling to get the vaccine - Covid cases have surged there nearly 700% since the August Sturgis Motorcycle rally. ​

​

South Dakota is followed by Idaho (32%), Alaska (29%) and Oklahoma (29%). Despite massive Covid-19 outbreaks, refusal rates in the most vaccine-resistant states have remained largely unchanged between June and August. ​

​

Mississippi and Louisiana are notable outliers, with the proportion unwilling to receive a vaccine falling from 31% to 26% and 28% to 22% respectively.​

​

37%​

OF AGRICULTURAL WORKERS SAY THEY WON’T BE VACCINATED​

According to polling from Morning Consult, this group of workers also has the highest percentage of people who say they won’t get vaccinated, followed by construction (27%) and food and drink (24%). ​

​

Workers in the tech sector reported the lowest levels of vaccine refusal—12%—and 71% of financial services workers reported being vaccinated, the highest among the sectors polled. ​

​

Health care workers came in the middle of the pack, with 17% unwilling to be vaccinated and 68% reporting having received at least one vaccine.​

​

20% ​

OF FOX NEWS CHANNEL VIEWERS ARE UNWILLING TO GET VACCINATED​

Viewers who tune in to Fox News Channel at least once a month report the highest rates of vaccine refusal and the lowest level of vaccine uptake (59%) of all outlets polled by Morning Consult, including CNN, CBS and The New York Times. ​

​

Fox, with 63% reporting vaccination and 17% saying they won’t get vaccinated, had the second-lowest metrics. ​

​

Viewers tuning into MSNBC reported the highest vaccination (73%) and lowest refusal (10%) rates.​

​

22%​

OF PEOPLE WITH LESS THAN A COLLEGE-LEVEL DEGREE SAY THEY WON’T GET A VACCINE​

Willingness to get vaccinated falls sharply along educational lines, according to polling by Morning Consult. ​

​

10% of college graduates and just 7% of post-graduates said they would never get the vaccine, while 78% and 83% report having been vaccinated, respectively.​

AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES

Why People Refuse Vaccines​

Why are people not getting vaccinated? These disparate groups of people who are refusing the vaccine have a variety of reasons, but here are some commonalities between them.

75%​

OF ADULTS REFUSING VACCINATION ARE SKEPTICAL OF BOTH COVID AND ITS VACCINES​

The vast majority—90%—of this group say they are not worried about getting sick from Covid-19 and are less convinced the vaccines work, according to Kaiser polling. ​

​

Those with no plans to get vaccinated also expressed distrust in companies making vaccines (17%) and against vaccines more generally (12%). ​

36%​

OF ADULTS ON THE VACCINE FENCE ARE MOSTLY WORRIED ABOUT SIDE EFFECTS​

Concerns about side effects were consistently the top concern for different groups open to taking the vaccine, according to polling by Morning Consult. ​

​

Fears the vaccines moved through clinical trials too quickly was another top concern among, reported by 31% surveyed. ​

22%​

OF UNVACCINATED ADULTS DON’T THINK VACCINES PREVENT DYING FROM COVID-19​

14% of unvaccinated people believe the shots are minimally effective at preventing death from Covid-19 and 19% say they do nothing to prevent serious illness, hospitalization or becoming infected if exposed, according to polling by Kaiser. Only 2% of vaccinated adults hold similar opinions. ​

​

Not only should those refusing to get vaccinated (who are medically cleared to get vaccinated) they should not receive any unemployment benefits whatsoever.

New York hospitals fire, suspend staff who refuse COVID vaccine

New York hospitals on Monday began firing or suspending healthcare workers for defying a state order to get the COVID-19 vaccine, and resulting staff shortages prompted some hospitals to postpone elective surgeries or curtail services.

www.reuters.com

Hospitals Begin Firing Staffers Who Refuse Covid Vaccines — Leading Some To Fear Staffing Shortages

Healthcare workers have lost their jobs and been put on unpaid leave after refusing coronavirus vaccines.

www.forbes.com

These Health Care Workers Would Rather Get Fired Than Get Vaccinated (Published 2021)

Monday is the vaccination deadline for New York State health care workers. Thousands of refusers have failed to meet it.

www.nytimes.com

And I truly hope they cannot get unemployment benefits.

Fired for refusing a Covid vaccine? You likely can’t get unemployment benefits

Thousands of Americans are being fired for refusing to comply with Covid vaccine mandates. They probably don't qualify for unemployment benefits.

www.cnbc.com

I don't understand the mentality. If people behaved like this during smallpox most of us wouldn't even be here today. Thank goodness our ancestors were smarter than that.

Smallpox and Vaccinia - Vaccines - NCBI Bookshelf

"

Smallpox, which killed 300 million people in the 20th century alone and was eliminated through vaccination, not herd immunity, TRUE FACT, as it is supported by our research. Smallpox is an ancient virus. The first vaccine created by Edward Jenner in the late 18th century helped control disease transmission and, two centuries later, eliminate smallpox worldwide, thanks to a global eradication effort implemented by the World Health Organization. Herd immunity, the phenomenon when immunized people within a community or population protect those who lack immunity by preventing disease transmission, is not possible unless a certain percentage or threshold of immunity is held uniformly across a population. For smallpox, this uniformity has only been achieved successfully through vaccination and not through any natural occurrence of herd immunity.

Because immunity varies with age and not everyone can get vaccinated — such as those who are immunocompromised, have specific allergies or pregnant women with certain types of vaccines — herd immunity is a crucial protective phenomenon.

One important factor is the number of immunized people within a population has to be at a certain percentage or threshold. According to the WHO, this figure was eight out of every 10 people for smallpox, based on its early eradication effort.

And because pathogens are not confined by geographical borders, this 80% immunization or higher is not a threshold restricted to one population — it has to be shared by all, whether at a local, national or global level. This means if any populations have vaccination rates below the threshold, there is a great risk for disease transmission to other unvaccinated or vulnerable individuals, even in populations with adequate herd immunity, such as in the case with measles outbreaks in recent years.

For smallpox, this homogeneity in vaccination rates across varying populations was only successfully achieved with mass smallpox vaccination,

A second important determinant for herd immunity is how long biological immunity against a pathogen lasts. While immunological memory forms with every new infectious encounter, this can fade over time, which is why booster shots are typically given.



"

 

[Dancing Fire]

@CathB And the fact you and @Dancing Fire think it is OK is a big part of the reason we are still dealing with so many dying. I hope you don't feel good about that.

I'm not against the vaccine, IMO it is up to the individual to decide. A yr ago all the Drs and nurses were unvaccinated heroes today they are goats.

 

[musicloveranthony]

@Dancing Fire There wasn't a vaccine available for people to demonstrate willful neglect at the time.

Any healthcare worker who actively chooses to rally against healthcare should lose their license, certification, or accreditation.

 

[Demon]

I don't understand the mentality. If people behaved like this during smallpox most of us wouldn't even be here today. Thank goodness our ancestors were smarter than that.

Luckily for them, they had not had 25 years of 'alternative facts' tv.

 

[Dancing Fire]

@Dancing Fire There wasn't a vaccine available for people to demonstrate willful neglect at the time.

I understand, but they could had walked away from their job a yr ago w/o risking their own lives to save others, but then they would had been labeled as cowers.

 

[musicloveranthony]

I understand, but they could had walked away from their job a yr ago w/o risking their own lives to save others, but then they would had been labeled as cowers.

They could have. They didn't. A lot of things could hypothetically happen. In reality, they're currently bucking best-practice. That's a failure of their oath to protect.

 

[missy]

That's a failure of their oath to protect.

And definitely a failure of their oath to do no harm.

Any healthcare worker who actively chooses to rally against healthcare should lose their license, certification, or accreditation.

100% agree.

I'm not against the vaccine, IMO it is up to the individual to decide. A yr ago all the Drs and nurses were unvaccinated heroestoday they are goats.

No. @Dancing Fire-It should not be up to the individual to decide. COVID-19 vaccines should be required for all eligible Americans before more lives are lost that could have been saved. Before the situation becomes even more dire. Before more deadly mutations.

Everybody who is eligible should be required to get vaccinated if they want to engage with others in public spaces. No one has the right to infect others with a potentially deadly illness.

Vaccination cannot be perceived as an individual choice. Instead, let's compare it to drunk driving. You can drink in private which is your choice but you can't just decide to get behind the wheel because you feel like it and don't think you'll get hurt. There are laws against drunk driving for a good reason. One's decision to choose to partake in a dangerous activity does not override the rights the public has from deadly harm.

I hope that we move to a system similar to the one France enacted. Which is to require vaccines or a recent negative test to enter virtually all public spaces. If you want to go to a restaurant, bar, train station or concert, for example, you need to show proof of vaccination or a recent negative test. That is in the interest of public health and is exactly what we should be heading toward in the U.S.

We have an obligation to protect our children, our elders and the most vulnerable among us. And if you cannot see that-If you refuse to see that- I have no words left to say. Just utter disappointment at how selfish and blind some people are being.

 

[musicloveranthony]

Vaccination cannot be perceived as an individual choice. Instead, let's compare it to drunk driving. You can drink in private which is your choice but you can't just decide to get behind the wheel because you feel like it and don't think you'll get hurt. There are laws against drunk driving for a good reason. One's decision to choose to partake in a dangerous activity does not override the rights the public has from deadly harm.

This is brilliant!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

@missy you know we would never get to 80% vaccination, right?