I am not responding to your post at all! I think it is wonderful that your husband sees you as beautiful, as I am sure you are. I love the way you recount what your husband said about your beauty.Date: 6/10/2009 11:12:49 PM
Author: Haven
Date: 6/10/2009 10:56:13 PM
Author: hlmr
I guess some people need that mirror, mirror routine to get through life. It''s a shame that there is only the reflection and no substance behind it.
It looks like you''re responding to my post. All I can say is that being quick to judge others is the best way to show your own true colors.
Date: 6/10/2009 11:21:04 PM
Author: hlmr
Date: 6/10/2009 11:12:49 PM
Author: Haven
Date: 6/10/2009 10:56:13 PM
Author: hlmr
I guess some people need that mirror, mirror routine to get through life. It's a shame that there is only the reflection and no substance behind it.
It looks like you're responding to my post. All I can say is that being quick to judge others is the best way to show your own true colors.
I am not responding to your post at all! I think it is wonderful that your husband sees you as beautiful, as I am sure you are. I love the way you recount what your husband said about your beauty.
No worries! I think most of us feel a bit strange about sharing a wonderful comment like that, because we are generally humble beings.Date: 6/10/2009 11:24:24 PM
Author: Haven
Date: 6/10/2009 11:21:04 PM
Author: hlmr
Date: 6/10/2009 11:12:49 PM
Author: Haven
Date: 6/10/2009 10:56:13 PM
Author: hlmr
I guess some people need that mirror, mirror routine to get through life. It''s a shame that there is only the reflection and no substance behind it.
It looks like you''re responding to my post. All I can say is that being quick to judge others is the best way to show your own true colors.
I am not responding to your post at all! I think it is wonderful that your husband sees you as beautiful, as I am sure you are. I love the way you recount what your husband said about your beauty.
Sorry, I went back and edited the post before I saw this response because I realized I was being overly sensitive. I felt a bit vulnerable articulating that last post, apparently.
Thank you for your kind words, and for your kindness in response to my inanity above.
Date: 5/22/2009 4:45:06 PM
Author: Ellen
Not here.Date: 5/22/2009 10:11:01 AM
Author: janinegirly
Our society absolutely rewards people who are more attractive. It also rewards people who are more outgoing/big talkers (not so in other cultures). Just like beau pointed out (like the name) , this happens in day to day life as well as in the workplace. There is even data to show that taller men are more likely to be successful,etc. Alot of our culture is built around perception. If you are beautiful, the assumption is you must be successful and someone who should be sought after. Life is easier for those .. from childhood on. However, beauty fades and the crash is much tougher to take for those who were given an easier path. This makes me think of the stereotype that beautiful women are more likely to be crazy (I''m talking about sterotypes single bachehlor men give). The idea is that if you''re beautiful you get away with a lot as there is less pressure to adjust /reel in your feelings. You will still get attention and be considered desireable. The less attractive person is more likely to be funny, easy going, have some unique skill etc...because this is how they level the playing field.
Hope I''m not offending anyone, I just find some of these sociological behavioral stuff interesting, even if it can be overgeneralized.
While I agree in general that attractive people may get some small breaks others might not, my life has been anything but easy, and I imagine other attractive people could say the same thing. ''Life'' does not care if you''re pretty.
I''m not trying to contradict the intention behind both of your statements about the importance of beauty, but the research doesn''t suggest that being beautiful guarantees that you will have a good life. What it suggests is that *all else being equal* being beautiful most definitely predicts all of the things that Janine mentions. So the more accurate way to think of this issue is to say, "If *I* was more of less attractive than I am, would my life have been different?" The answer to this is irrefutably "yes". Whether we like it or not, this is one of the clearest and most replicated findings in social psychology from the last 50 years.Date: 6/11/2009 1:27:28 AM
Author: whitby_2773
Date: 5/22/2009 4:45:06 PM
Author: Ellen
Not here.Date: 5/22/2009 10:11:01 AM
Author: janinegirly
Our society absolutely rewards people who are more attractive. It also rewards people who are more outgoing/big talkers (not so in other cultures). Just like beau pointed out (like the name) , this happens in day to day life as well as in the workplace. There is even data to show that taller men are more likely to be successful,etc. Alot of our culture is built around perception. If you are beautiful, the assumption is you must be successful and someone who should be sought after. Life is easier for those .. from childhood on. However, beauty fades and the crash is much tougher to take for those who were given an easier path. This makes me think of the stereotype that beautiful women are more likely to be crazy (I''m talking about sterotypes single bachehlor men give). The idea is that if you''re beautiful you get away with a lot as there is less pressure to adjust /reel in your feelings. You will still get attention and be considered desireable. The less attractive person is more likely to be funny, easy going, have some unique skill etc...because this is how they level the playing field.
Hope I''m not offending anyone, I just find some of these sociological behavioral stuff interesting, even if it can be overgeneralized.
While I agree in general that attractive people may get some small breaks others might not, my life has been anything but easy, and I imagine other attractive people could say the same thing. ''Life'' does not care if you''re pretty.
ditto this.
This is a perfect example of someone who's self-esteem is based on their looks, and the way that such contingency can affect someone's day to day life! It is sad.Date: 6/11/2009 1:46:44 AM
Author: TravelingGal
I'm late on this one too.
Pretty? Hm. Baby sucked it out of me if it was there.
I'll classify myself as DESIRED. Hee hee.
Seriously though, I wouldn't want to ever be a head turner. Because, well, you are too engrossed in the fact you are a head turner. Best example I can give is this:
My cousin is drop dead gorgeous. A stunner. Men DROOL over her full lips, exotic eyes, full thick long hair, slim body and big (bought) boobs. She's also bright, but that's beside the point.
A bunch of us gals were walking down Robertson Blvd in West Hollywood. A lot of gay men around. Most of us gals were walking and gabbing and having a grand ole time. Not my cousin. She actually said to us....
'Isn't it weird to be walking down the street and no one is looking at you?'
To her credit, she did 'tee hee' a bit to show how lame that sounded. We all turned around and stared at her incredulously and her sister (who is cute but didn't get those same looks) said, 'Oh my God. You MEAN that.'
I always thought that was sad. We mere mortals were having fun and enjoying the company while she was noticing that no one thought she was hot.
whitby, I just want to preface my statement by saying this is nothing personal, I like ya! But the highlighted statement evoked quite a strong reaction from me.Date: 6/11/2009 1:27:28 AM
Author: whitby_2773
Date: 5/22/2009 4:45:06 PM
Author: Ellen
Not here.Date: 5/22/2009 10:11:01 AM
Author: janinegirly
Our society absolutely rewards people who are more attractive. It also rewards people who are more outgoing/big talkers (not so in other cultures). Just like beau pointed out (like the name) , this happens in day to day life as well as in the workplace. There is even data to show that taller men are more likely to be successful,etc. Alot of our culture is built around perception. If you are beautiful, the assumption is you must be successful and someone who should be sought after. Life is easier for those .. from childhood on. However, beauty fades and the crash is much tougher to take for those who were given an easier path. This makes me think of the stereotype that beautiful women are more likely to be crazy (I''m talking about sterotypes single bachehlor men give). The idea is that if you''re beautiful you get away with a lot as there is less pressure to adjust /reel in your feelings. You will still get attention and be considered desireable. The less attractive person is more likely to be funny, easy going, have some unique skill etc...because this is how they level the playing field.
Hope I''m not offending anyone, I just find some of these sociological behavioral stuff interesting, even if it can be overgeneralized.
While I agree in general that attractive people may get some small breaks others might not, my life has been anything but easy, and I imagine other attractive people could say the same thing. ''Life'' does not care if you''re pretty.
ditto this.
i also think it''s salient to mention that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and one man''s meat is another man''s poison. as beau said, i think MOST men would send their wives in first if they were trying to make an impression with looks, but the truth is that what my husband, your husband, or her husband may find attractive are probably three totally different things. physical attractiveness is a hugely subjective measure.
for instance, someone mentioned earlier eva mendes as a ''true beauty''. and yet only a few days ago i was chatting to my best girlfriend, telling her why i didn''t find eva mendes attractive at all. i find her face heavy, her jaw overly long and full, and her whole demeanor like an overblown, hot-house flower, whereas i prefer a paler kind of beauty. like uma thurman (drop dead gorgeous in my book) who tim finds....(and i quote)....''kinda odd looking''. and if anyone is interested, i''ve seen nicole kidman a number of times, up close and personal, and she is NOT that great looking in my opinion - tho she looks fabulous in the chanel #5 ads. and so on and so on. and lots of other things play a role. tim is turned right off by any woman who smokes. he can see a gorgeous woman and think ''WOW!'' - but if she lights up a cigarette, it''s like someone turned a fireman''s hose on him. when it comes to me and men, i dislike thin lips and find kissing them revolting (well, i used to!) and i could never, EVER, marry a man with a voice i didnt find attractive. or who had bad hands. they''re my three deal breakers - lips, voices, hands.
so the more i think about it, the more i think we can only ever say - ''i''m pretty - in my OWN opinion'' - or in that of our spouse, or some other specified person. there''s no absolute value for beauty, despite some features being generally more admired in certain cultures than in others.
probably makes most sense to behave in a humble manner rather than running the risk of being set straight by someone who doesnt agree with our own positive assessment of ourselves - and humility is always beautiful.
I can!Date: 6/11/2009 8:05:06 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
I''m not trying to contradict the intention behind both of your statements about the importance of beauty, but the research doesn''t suggest that being beautiful guarantees that you will have a good life. What it suggests is that *all else being equal* being beautiful most definitely predicts all of the things that Janine mentions. So the more accurate way to think of this issue is to say, ''If *I* was more of less attractive than I am, would my life have been different?'' The answer to this is irrefutably ''yes''. Whether we like it or not, this is one of the clearest and most replicated findings in social psychology from the last 50 years.Date: 6/11/2009 1:27:28 AM
Author: whitby_2773
Date: 5/22/2009 4:45:06 PM
Author: Ellen
Not here.Date: 5/22/2009 10:11:01 AM
Author: janinegirly
Our society absolutely rewards people who are more attractive. It also rewards people who are more outgoing/big talkers (not so in other cultures). Just like beau pointed out (like the name) , this happens in day to day life as well as in the workplace. There is even data to show that taller men are more likely to be successful,etc. Alot of our culture is built around perception. If you are beautiful, the assumption is you must be successful and someone who should be sought after. Life is easier for those .. from childhood on. However, beauty fades and the crash is much tougher to take for those who were given an easier path. This makes me think of the stereotype that beautiful women are more likely to be crazy (I''m talking about sterotypes single bachehlor men give). The idea is that if you''re beautiful you get away with a lot as there is less pressure to adjust /reel in your feelings. You will still get attention and be considered desireable. The less attractive person is more likely to be funny, easy going, have some unique skill etc...because this is how they level the playing field.
Hope I''m not offending anyone, I just find some of these sociological behavioral stuff interesting, even if it can be overgeneralized.
While I agree in general that attractive people may get some small breaks others might not, my life has been anything but easy, and I imagine other attractive people could say the same thing. ''Life'' does not care if you''re pretty.
ditto this.
That said, the links between objective attractiveness, one''s social experiences, and ones self-concept and self-worth are more complicated than ''If pretty then happy/succesful etc''. On the one hand, people who have higher self-esteem -- who feel valued and loved by others and who love and value themselves -- feel more attractive. Their sense of self-worth colors their views of their looks! Of course, there is little or no objective accuracy to thisGood looking people don''t have higher self-esteem! BEING beautiful in the objective sense doesn''t guarantee that you will be healthy psychologically. But being psychologically healthy pretty much guarantees that you willl feel pretty and attractive! But you probably won''t go around bragging about this, there is a real social prohibition about talking about one''s beauty -- sort of like their is a social prohibition about talking about one''s wealthBoth are socially valued commodities and it isn''t ''nice'' to talk about how blessed one is in either respect.
But on the other hand, having self-worth that depends on being attractive -- requiring others to compliment you to feel good, for example -- is related to fragile and narcissistic self-esteem: An outward display of confidence that is nevertheless masking an inner uncertainty and fragility. We all know people like thisThey act confident but if they sense a slight or insult they bristle and lash out. Truly confident people don''t do this. And truly confident people do *not* say or feel that their worth is based on their appearance. In fact, they deny that vehemently.
Can you tell I did my PhD on this stuff?Most of my publications center on the reciprocal relations between self-esteem and one''s social experiences.
Date: 6/11/2009 9:14:23 AM
Author: Ellen
whitby, I just want to preface my statement by saying this is nothing personal, I like ya! But the highlighted statement evoked quite a strong reaction from me.Date: 6/11/2009 1:27:28 AM
Author: whitby_2773
Date: 5/22/2009 4:45:06 PM
Author: Ellen
Not here.Date: 5/22/2009 10:11:01 AM
Author: janinegirly
Our society absolutely rewards people who are more attractive. It also rewards people who are more outgoing/big talkers (not so in other cultures). Just like beau pointed out (like the name) , this happens in day to day life as well as in the workplace. There is even data to show that taller men are more likely to be successful,etc. Alot of our culture is built around perception. If you are beautiful, the assumption is you must be successful and someone who should be sought after. Life is easier for those .. from childhood on. However, beauty fades and the crash is much tougher to take for those who were given an easier path. This makes me think of the stereotype that beautiful women are more likely to be crazy (I''m talking about sterotypes single bachehlor men give). The idea is that if you''re beautiful you get away with a lot as there is less pressure to adjust /reel in your feelings. You will still get attention and be considered desireable. The less attractive person is more likely to be funny, easy going, have some unique skill etc...because this is how they level the playing field.
Hope I''m not offending anyone, I just find some of these sociological behavioral stuff interesting, even if it can be overgeneralized.
While I agree in general that attractive people may get some small breaks others might not, my life has been anything but easy, and I imagine other attractive people could say the same thing. ''Life'' does not care if you''re pretty.
ditto this.
i also think it''s salient to mention that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and one man''s meat is another man''s poison. as beau said, i think MOST men would send their wives in first if they were trying to make an impression with looks, but the truth is that what my husband, your husband, or her husband may find attractive are probably three totally different things. physical attractiveness is a hugely subjective measure.
for instance, someone mentioned earlier eva mendes as a ''true beauty''. and yet only a few days ago i was chatting to my best girlfriend, telling her why i didn''t find eva mendes attractive at all. i find her face heavy, her jaw overly long and full, and her whole demeanor like an overblown, hot-house flower, whereas i prefer a paler kind of beauty. like uma thurman (drop dead gorgeous in my book) who tim finds....(and i quote)....''kinda odd looking''. and if anyone is interested, i''ve seen nicole kidman a number of times, up close and personal, and she is NOT that great looking in my opinion - tho she looks fabulous in the chanel #5 ads. and so on and so on. and lots of other things play a role. tim is turned right off by any woman who smokes. he can see a gorgeous woman and think ''WOW!'' - but if she lights up a cigarette, it''s like someone turned a fireman''s hose on him. when it comes to me and men, i dislike thin lips and find kissing them revolting (well, i used to!) and i could never, EVER, marry a man with a voice i didnt find attractive. or who had bad hands. they''re my three deal breakers - lips, voices, hands.
so the more i think about it, the more i think we can only ever say - ''i''m pretty - in my OWN opinion'' - or in that of our spouse, or some other specified person. there''s no absolute value for beauty, despite some features being generally more admired in certain cultures than in others.
probably makes most sense to behave in a humble manner rather than running the risk of being set straight by someone who doesnt agree with our own positive assessment of ourselves - and humility is always beautiful.
I can honestly say, without the slightest of hesitancy, that not only has my husband never done this, I am quite certain the thought has never crossed his mind. He is not like that, thankfully. He doesn''t need to ''use'' me for anything, nor would I want, or allow him to. To me, that seems cheap. (and he knows he is not the only one who finds me attractive, just for the record, as I didn''t quote the latter part of your statement)
Anyway, I just wanted to set the record straight, as far as I was concerned. I didn''t like my hubby being lumped in with men who use their wives for their looks.
Princesss...thank you. The unapproachable comment came from a former boss of mine with whom I just didn''t feel a very strong connection. She was 25, I was 21, there was some strange dynamic there and I hope that''s where it came from. She told me that during my annual review, and said that she felt like customers didn''t want to approach me or something. I had never heard anything like that before, up until then and since that job I can''t go anywhere without someone asking me if I know where the tabasco sauce is, or if I could please reach something on a shelf or rack that is too high for them to reach!Date: 6/11/2009 10:43:53 AM
Author: princesss
Hahahaha, so thinking back to my trip to Paris a few years ago (where I basically didn''t spend a dime on food because men kept insisting on buying it for me) I can safely assume I''m either stunningly beautiful or incredibly annoying!
Monnie, I can''t imagine people being so rude to you! I think you''re a beautiful woman, but an especially kind one as well. I worked retail a lot, and it would have hurt me to be considered unapproachable. (I''ve been called intimidating, too, and I still have no clue why! I mean, yeah, I''m tall....but I''m also goofy, silly, and nice. People are more likely to see me dancing or laughing than they are to see me being standoffish, so I have no clue where intimidating comes from.)
And honestly, the only reason BF would send me in before him is because I''m WAY better at bargaining than he is. I definitely use the way I look to an advantage there. They never expect me to be a shrewd bargainer with the guts to say ''I''ve done the research, this is what I''m willing to pay or I walk away.'' I guess being a research queen who grew up in a country where bargaining was expected has its benefits.
This is TOO funny!!Date: 6/11/2009 11:21:10 AM
Author: jas
*struts in to techno beat*
I''m too sexy for this thread, too sexy for this thread, so sexy it hurts my head!
*struts out, oblivious to the looks received by other posters and lurkers*
You are hilarious woman.Date: 6/11/2009 11:21:10 AM
Author: jas
*struts in to techno beat*
I''m too sexy for this thread, too sexy for this thread, so sexy it hurts my head!
*struts out, oblivious to the looks received by other posters and lurkers*
Ditto, we missed you~!!~!Date: 6/11/2009 11:45:23 AM
Author: Ellen
You are hilarious woman.Date: 6/11/2009 11:21:10 AM
Author: jas
*struts in to techno beat*
I''m too sexy for this thread, too sexy for this thread, so sexy it hurts my head!
*struts out, oblivious to the looks received by other posters and lurkers*
I''m dying to go, I took 4 years of French in high school and can read/write/comprehend spoken words but am not able to speak much. I''ll just be one of those tourists who acts like she doesn''t know what''s going on when in reality I''ll know what people are saying, ha ha. Have you ever read David Sedaris'' Me Talk Pretty One Day? He gives a hysterical description of that same scenario, takes place on a bus or something in France. Even the title of the book is in reference to him struggling to learn the language when he moves to France.Date: 6/11/2009 11:24:30 AM
Author: princesss
Do it! I think there''s something thrilling about going to a new city and having a budget (and, in my case, the inability to speak more than 10 words of French). There''s a great mix of cheap and free things to do, and tons of little sandwich shops and crepe stands where you can eat for cheap (or free, if you''re annoying enough, lol!).
Date: 6/11/2009 10:55:48 AM
Author: janinegirly
DD: had no idea you were a PHD on this stuff, that''s so interesting.
Thanks for putting it better than me. It''s clear beautiful people do not have easier lives (look at Hollywood!), but certain things do come easier (doors get opened more, seated faster, get job in front office more readily, compliments flow,etc). Yet often a beautiful person will not realize this since this has been their norm for their whole life. This is similar to race issues, often one sees the surface and it seems equal, but cannot necessarily understand that day to day, things are more of a struggle for certain segments of the population due to how they are perceived by society. In those cases, an individual has to battle and overcome perceptions based on their physical appearance alone--just to keep the playing field somewhat level. This is too big an issue to generalize, I''m just staying it''s hard for one person to understand another'' persons reality objectively--unless you spend alot of time thinking about it--because you will always assume your reality is the norm.
Haven''s recent post kind of drove that point home for me...how she said she got a lot of free meals b/c she was friendly..I mean I 100% believe Haven thinks this is the case, but to many of us, we have to chuckle like her hubby, b/c clearly it is related to her being attractive! (I''ve seen your picture Haven, you can''t deny it!! . I mean I can''t say I''ve ever received free meals unless I complained about a service issue!
Yes! That''s exactly what I was talking about, ha ha! I haven''t read the Flames one yet, it was checked out of the library last time I was there. I need to reserve it!Date: 6/11/2009 12:39:44 PM
Author: princesss
I *love* that book! Especially that chapter about the guy on the train imagining David Sedaris is a pickpocket. I was dying laughing so hard. Have you read ''When You Are Engulfed In Flames'' yet? The chapter about the woman next to him on a plane cracks me up so much! I have both as books on tape, and I''ve been listening to him non-stop for the last few weeks.