Are the hearts & arrows cut diamonds just a fad?

[Maxine]

Do Sarin machines have the ability to assign AGS grades???

 

[diamondsbylauren]

When you get a sarin done at the DDC in NYC it costs $2 and they give you the slip I photographed.
I myself am not a member of the DDC, but we do have friends ( believe it or not!) that are members.
One of them walked the diamond over to the club today and had the reports drawn, first one, then he waited an hour and kibbitzed, and gave it in again. This guy loves to kibbitz.

I could have gone in with my buddy as a guest and stood there while it was done- but my friend was nice enough to save me the time.

Anyway- those are the sarin measurements of the 1.71 L SI2 diamond referred to in the GIA report. The same diamond who''s photo you posted, the same diamond that was anylized by you and others.
If you can''t actually believe I am doing exactly what I say I am doing, and you know another way to have a sarin report drawn, I will gladly do it- as long as it''s done here in NYC and I do not have to send the stone out of town.

Garry- the diamond is what it is.
It''s not an ideal cut- but it shows a diamond can be pretty without Hearts and Arrows or perfect numbers.
Which says nothing at all negative about Hearts and Arrows.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 7/21/2005 10:00:38 PM
Author: Maxine
Do Sarin machines have the ability to assign AGS grades???

Yes- as do OGI

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/21/2005 10:01:17 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

Date: 7/21/2005 10:00:38 PM

Author: Maxine

Do Sarin machines have the ability to assign AGS grades???

Yes- as do OGI

old system ags grades can the new system grades cant be.
They have to be sent into ags for grading.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

David I asked for 3D Sarin files which have been available from Sarin only (and Helium) for 3 years.
Ogi wont do, and a sarin sticker will not do.

Another question - how far away in mm's approximately is your lens from the diamond?

 

[Iiro]

Why it is so hard to find a 3D SARIN in NY?

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 7/22/2005 6:04:00 AM
Author: Iiro
Why it is so hard to find a 3D SARIN in NY?

It''s not hard, it''s SIMPLE!!! Why every phone booth has one now- and not just a plain old sarin- a 3d sarin.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 7/22/2005 3:52:43 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
David I asked for 3D Sarin files which have been available from Sarin only (and Helium) for 3 years.
Ogi wont do, and a sarin sticker will not do.

Another question - how far away in mm''s approximately is your lens from the diamond?

Hi Everyone,
Garry- let''s pretend I''m very simple ( not to much work there...)

What is it you are accusing me of?

Are you saying that a regular Sarin, which was performed on the stone who''s photo you posted in this thread- a regular sarin does NOT give you enough information for the purposes of this discussion?

I understand that the 3d sarin report is more detailed- the 3d sarin give more specific angle information, as opposed to the average angle info the regular sarin gives- still- are you saying that a "regular" sarin would measure 35.3% crown angles while the 3d sarin would tell us the crown angles are above 38 degrees- like you said?
Isn''t a round diamond with 38degree crown angles obviously "off make"? Does the photo of mine you posted look "off make" to you?


Do you think the DDC in NYC has an innacurate sarin machine?
Are you saying I used a different stone?- please- if you are accusing me of something, tell me what it is!

 

[Rhino]

Date: 7/21/2005 10:00:44 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

Garry- the diamond is what it is.
It''s not an ideal cut- but it shows a diamond can be pretty without Hearts and Arrows or perfect numbers.

Who said it was pretty?



DOH... I''m just yankin ya Dave.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

NO JOKING ALLOWED!!!!


hehehehe


Seriously- Rhino- do you have the 3d machine Garry is talking about?

 

[belle]

in the name of science and all things beautiful, send it to me.
i will analyze it and let you know the results.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 7/21/2005 11:58:38 PM
Author: strmrdr

old system ags grades can the new system grades cant be.
They have to be sent into ags for grading.

strm... Ultimately if a person does want an AGS lab graded stone they will have to send it to them. However AGS will be featuring exclusive online software wherein a member (AGS Jewelry Stores Members only) can upload a 3 dimensional model and get the grade based on the model PLUS the ASET image which will probably be the most accurate representation depending upon the accuracy of the model.

Maxine... currently Sarin and OGI machines can give the old AGS grades as Dave noted. In the new systems I know that GIA Grades will be able to be assigned via Sarin but am not sure if AGS''s will be able to since their grade will be based on all facet construction which only a model can give. From what I have been learning, the only way to get the AGS Grade from a Sarin, it would be necessary for that Sarin to generate 3d models which can be uploaded to the AGS site and loaded into their proprietary software. To my knowledge OGI and Helium scanners will also have this capability as well through stereo lithographic files which both the OGI and Helium scanners can export.

I don''t think the new AGS Cut Grading system will be able to be assessed within the Sarin/OGI/Helium software alone.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 7/22/2005 2:48:51 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren
NO JOKING ALLOWED!!!!


hehehehe


Seriously- Rhino- do you have the 3d machine Garry is talking about?

LOL... Glad you took that in the right spirit man.

Yes we do have 3D modeling capabilities here, the one Garry is talking about.

If you''re anywhere around Long Island I''ll be glad to do the scan for ya... FOR FREE TOO.

hehe

BTW if you do bring your guitar and we''ll do a few tunes. Do you know Beatle songs? I do a heluva John Lennon.

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Date: 7/22/2005 1:21:04 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

Date: 7/22/2005 3:52:43 AM
I understand that the 3d sarin report is more detailed- the 3d sarin give more specific angle information, as opposed to the average angle info the regular sarin gives- still- are you saying that a ''regular'' sarin would measure 35.3% crown angles while the 3d sarin would tell us the crown angles are above 38 degrees- like you said?

does that make me the closest with a guess at the crown angle at 34.9°?

 

[MissAva]

This may be a silly question...

What does a 3D sarin report give you that the slip does not? Is that what consumers ought to be looking for?

 

[Lord Summerisle]

i believe it creates a computer model of the diamond that can be loaded into dimcalc for further analysis...

tho i have been known to be wrong (see p5

 

[MissAva]

But what does Diacalc tell that is more useful?

 

[pyramid]

Complicated figures that only Garry, Serg, Rhino and others seem to understand

I think it is things like Ray tracing.


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamcalc.21475/=

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Date: 7/22/2005 7:14:17 PM
Author: Matatora
This may be a silly question...

What does a 3D sarin report give you that the slip does not? Is that what consumers ought to be looking for?

Excellent Question Matatora!


let's put everyone's minds at ease- people that are experts in Hearts and Arrows can easily look at a sarin, and the diamond, and give you a rock solid assesment-
It's commendable that GOG has invested in all the very latest testing equipment. No doubt, it's used to the consumer's advantage.
Still, I'll bet Rhino would not need a 3D sarin- a plain old slip like I posted here with a chance to examine the diamond- and he could tell you if he reccomended the diamond as far as it's cut.
Lots of folks can get a good deal of info from a plain ond sarin- even if Garry can't.......

Still- just to give Garry everything he wants, I'm getting very tempted to take Rhino up on his offer......

Lord Summerisle- I did not notice that you had estomated a crown angle near 35 degrees- did the rest of your numbers come close?

Beatles? Sure- I adore the Beatles!
I can say , without hesitation, that I can play at least one note of any Beatles song! heheheeh

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Keep your shirt on David - i am not accusing anyone of anything

How far away os your camera lens please?
It''s important - I think I have an error in my logic

 

[pyramid]

It is probably because of things like 3D Sarin and Diamcalc and Idealscope that people like Rhino know how one uppergirdle facet angle relates to another on the other side of the stone or the pavillion

 

[MissAva]

Wow! Thanks ya''ll....I am just trying to make sure I know what I need to. Decision time is only two moths away...EEKK.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/22/2005 7:14:17 PM
Author: Matatora
This may be a silly question...

What does a 3D sarin report give you that the slip does not? Is that what consumers ought to be looking for?

It gives the information for each facet instead of the average of the facets.
It also provides the information on the minor facets that that one doesnt report.
Visit GOG''s website and click on one of his diamond''s pages and install the sarin viewer then the link for the sarin file.
The sarin file for the diamond in question is what Gary is looking for.

 

[MissAva]

He he...I have wanted to do this but I keep downloading to the server comp for the house LAN rather then my laptop. I may have to wait until I am back in AL.

 

[widget]

OK....I''ve got a question, too..

All things being equal (in the opinion of the GIA), how much of a premium does an ideal, H&A RB command over a well cut, "pretty" 60/60?

Just wondering....
widget

 

[belle]

Date: 7/22/2005 9:14:29 PM
Author: widget
OK....I''ve got a question, too..

All things being equal (in the opinion of the GIA), how much of a premium does an ideal, H&A RB command over a well cut, ''pretty'' 60/60?

Just wondering....
widget

by all things equal, i am assuming you mean color, clarity and carat weight (?)
obviously, i don''t know if any of the 60/60''s presented here qualify as ''pretty'' but, here is a comparison.....

 

[widget]

Thanks, Belle!

widget

 

[Iiro]

Date: 7/22/2005 12:37:34 PM
Author: diamondsbylauren

Date: 7/22/2005 6:04:00 AM
Author: Iiro
Why it is so hard to find a 3D SARIN in NY?

It's not hard, it's SIMPLE!!! Why every phone booth has one now- and not just a plain old sarin- a 3d sarin.

I dont have any kind of SARIN, we dont sell diamonds enough to justify such a investement, but NY is one of the Diamond centers of the world, and I find it a bit odd DDC has not invested to latest tech.

 

[strmrdr]

David if you do go over the gog for a visit how about this:
Find the best to you 60/60 diamond you can and bring it along and have Jon run his battery of high tech tests on it and report the results compared to the super-ideals.

I think it would be very education for us consumers to see that.

 

[pyramid]

Just wanted to add here. I received a private message from someone suggesting that John Quixote may know something about Ray tracing, experts jargon etc. So as a layman person on here I vote that he should step forward to discuss these technical issues with Garry, DiamondsbyLauren, Iiro, Rhino etc.

Ooops just noticed that he has already been taking part, I forgot to add his name to my post apparently but he is included in the 'others'. It was not him who pointed it out but another valuable member of this forum.