are girls getting greedier nowadays?

[chemgirl]

This is reminding me of the Canadian show "Princess". Its about girls in the Toronto area who expect the best of everything regardless of whether they can afford it. In one episode the girl told her fiance he had to spend at least 10k on a ring before she'd agree to marry him. So he put it on a credit card and said goodbye to his education goals (because how can he make minimum payments while in school?).

I've been seeing this a lot in real life. Our friends are mostly professionals (mostly engineers with some doctors and lawyers mixed in) so they make good money. They think that since they make good money than can afford ANYTHING they want. Trips, eating out, jewelry, clothing, manicures, all add up. Then there are expenses like the big namebrand engagement ring, the house, and the 35k+ wedding. Including debt repayment from these big purchases, they are spending more than they're making every month and getting in to serious trouble. We were out last night and the topic of debt came up. We still have a few thousand in student loans that we plan to pay in the next 3 months. Then we're debt free. Our friends are actually accumulating more debt on a monthly basis and one couple was up to over 60k on credit cards! Sure she has a nice Tiffany ring and she served crablegs at her wedding, but all of that will mean very little when the bank stops lending to them and they can't pay their bills anymore (at this rate soon!).

 

[winternight]

You could also say that men are getting more irresponsible with their budgets....

what do you meant by irresponsible? a girl should clean out the guy's saving account?

You seem to have some assumptions underlying your thinking to get to where you did from what I posted. I can't really see how you did it based on what I wrote about guys being irresponsible with their own money.

PS maybe your nephew needs a new girlfriend.

 

[LaraOnline]

This thread is getting interesting!
As a woman who was presented with a budget of $600 for my engagement ring (see! it still stings!) I think women will always want something they see as desireable...and maybe with a price tag that gives a little sting to the man who's paying for it.

After all, for many women, there's a lot of woman-hours at the kitchen sink after marriage... a woman needs a little bit of genuine beauty in her life. Otherwise, if a wedding ring is to be functional only (like a social handcuff lol) why not choose iron or steel?

Not many other objects in your life that are 'meant' to stay the same from the moment you become engaged.
Same house for the rest of your life? Same shoes? didn't think so.

So maybe girls (and their guys) would have an easier time of it, if buying an engagement ring was like buying a car...great for now, the most you could afford yadda yadda...with an automatic upgrade cycle every seven years *snigger*

But at the moment, for a lot of girls, it kind of feels like 'do or die'. One shot!

 

[Snow_Miser]

I can definitely feel the societal pressure to get a "so big" engagement ring. Although I know we can probably afford my dream ring if we want to, I know the hit we would take to our savings really isn't worth it at this point in our lives. I plan on wearing an alternative engagement ring (probably a 5-stone or eternity band and use that for both ering and wedding ring) and am prepared for the looks and snarky comments from my other young coworkers that have 2 carat rocks.

It hurts me inside a little not to have exactly the ring I want, but I know the time in my life when I got to be a spoiled brat is long past.

I do think the overall mentality of a lot of people right now is to spend, spend, spend and so off everything you have. It very much a keeping up with the joneses society where I live. And it's hard not to fall into that way of living. I have seen family members and friends struggle with large amounts of debt though, and I never want to be In a situation like that.

If only all these young girls and guys were forced to take some type of financial planning class, so they could see how their decisions could affect their later lives...

 

[lulu]

Love what Kaleigh said:

"It's not the ring , it's a marriage... It's not the wedding... It's the life after all the candles are blown out... "

 

[JewelFreak]

Everybody's greedier these days. Want what I want, want what I see on tv (even though I don't know anybody who has it at my age), want what they have. I deserve it because I want it, now! Entitlement, immaturity.

 

[CharmyPoo]

After all, for many women, there's a lot of woman-hours at the kitchen sink after marriage... a woman needs a little bit of genuine beauty in her life.

Huh? I don't spend any more time at the kichen sink than I did before marriage. In fact, my husband probably spends triple the time at the kitchen sink than I do.

 

[tyty333]

Yes...my soon-to-be ex-SIL is a cop. My brother was working as a contracter in Afghanistan trying to pay off some of the
credit card bills they had run up. She decides she wants a BMW...they buy one (used) even though she doesnt really run
with a crowd that drives cars like that. Then for their 10 anniversary she decides she wants a 2 carat EC. She buys one.
Its not even paid off and they are going through a divorce. They have no money in savings and nothing saved for college
educations or retirement but she's got that 2 carat EC! Just ridiculous!

I'm not saying that my brother was innocent in all of it. He spent money on himself too that he shouldnt have!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I've been seeing this a lot in real life. Our friends are mostly professionals (mostly engineers with some doctors and lawyers mixed in) so they make good money. They think that since they make good money than can afford ANYTHING they want. Trips, eating out, jewelry, clothing, manicures, all add up. Then there are expenses like the big namebrand engagement ring, the house, and the 35k+ wedding. Including debt repayment from these big purchases, they are spending more than they're making every month and getting in to serious trouble. We were out last night and the topic of debt came up. We still have a few thousand in student loans that we plan to pay in the next 3 months. Then we're debt free. Our friends are actually accumulating more debt on a monthly basis and one couple was up to over 60k on credit cards! Sure she has a nice Tiffany ring and she served crablegs at her wedding, but all of that will mean very little when the bank stops lending to them and they can't pay their bills anymore (at this rate soon!).

Very strange - I am in Toronto and most of my friends are also engineers, doctors and lawyers (and financial folks). We do the things you mentioned above - no one is in debt (school all paid off or work pays for post-grad) and we all have nice homes, etc. Perhaps the difference is that we are in our 30s and you may be a bit younger.

 

[movie zombie]

DF, what does your daughter have to say in answer to your question? what does she expect to receive as an e-ring?

 

[jewelerman]

I wouldn't call it greed. Exactly. I'd label it . . . entitlement.

And we've had this conversation many times.

This is true! Ive seen this happen with many of the young couples Ive helped over the years!The young lady has seen the excitement caused by her mother or grandmothers ring or upgrade and is determined that is what she wants regardless of cost to her future fiance so she can show everyone how much he really loves her.Ive witnessed many a fight over this exact topic. 20 years ago it was a carat and now today its 2 carats. When this happens its a sure thing that one or both of the couple are not ready for marriage!

 

[jewelerman]

Love what Kaleigh said:

"It's not the ring , it's a marriage... It's not the wedding... It's the life after all the candles are blown out... "

Future brides need to remember this when planning the wedding and the bills that may take years to payoff and not just the rings.Why go into a marriage with the stress of so much debt!

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, what does your daughter have to say in answer to your question? what does she expect to receive as an e-ring?

i don't know i have never ask them the Q.

 

[LaraOnline]

After all, for many women, there's a lot of woman-hours at the kitchen sink after marriage... a woman needs a little bit of genuine beauty in her life.

Huh? I don't spend any more time at the kichen sink than I did before marriage. In fact, my husband probably spends triple the time at the kitchen sink than I do.

What a lucky duck you are!
I get the feeling my man buys me expensive jewellery to 'pay me off' for all my unpaid labour!
Mind you I get the feeling that these US fellows are a fairly advanced lot.
I think I also have a fairly 'macho' type... I don't think I've seen him bend over to pick up a sock since we wed!
He also sets the agenda fairly comprehensively in terms of work lifestyle, which then influences pretty much every aspect of how we live our lives.

In many ways, I think women in most parts of the world still 'follow their man' in terms of overall lifestyle. eg the man's job taking precedence, meaning they move if the man's job requires it, etc. I don't doubt that the opposite does happen, but my view is that it doesn't happen nearly so often. THis particularly applies once a couple has kids. I guess it's kind of practical that way.

Intererestingly, this macho husband of mine is the only boyfriend I ever had that was even remotely interested in buying me jewellery. (he was also the only one that was interested in marrying me, but that's another story! )

 

[LaraOnline]

[quote="jewelerman|1326573384|3103031 20 years ago it was a carat and now today its 2 carats. When this happens its a sure thing that one or both of the couple are not ready for marriage![/quote]

There you go DF, girls ARE becoming more greedy.

A two-carat diamond as an engagement ring, just when you are starting out in life, seems kinda crazy.
Big diamonds seem like an older lady's pleasure... in my world, any way.

 

[melave]

After all, for many women, there's a lot of woman-hours at the kitchen sink after marriage... a woman needs a little bit of genuine beauty in her life.

Huh? I don't spend any more time at the kichen sink than I did before marriage. In fact, my husband probably spends triple the time at the kitchen sink than I do.

What a lucky duck you are!
I get the feeling my man buys me expensive jewellery to 'pay me off' for all my unpaid labour!
Mind you I get the feeling that these US fellows are a fairly advanced lot.
I think I also have a fairly 'macho' type... I don't think I've seen him bend over to pick up a sock since we wed!
He also sets the agenda fairly comprehensively in terms of work lifestyle, which then influences pretty much every aspect of how we live our lives.

In many ways, I think women in most parts of the world still 'follow their man' in terms of overall lifestyle. eg the man's job taking precedence, meaning they move if the man's job requires it, etc. I don't doubt that the opposite does happen, but my view is that it doesn't happen nearly so often. THis particularly applies once a couple has kids. I guess it's kind of practical that way.

Intererestingly, this macho husband of mine is the only boyfriend I ever had that was even remotely interested in buying me jewellery. (he was also the only one that was interested in marrying me, but that's another story! )

I have moved and given up jobs for my OH about 3 times now. The ONLY reason i do it is because his trade is a lot more rare (like becoming extinct) than mine. It is harder to find a job with his trade where i know i can pick up work nearly anywhere with my trade and skills.

He also does half the cooking and cleaning as i work long hours. This will change shortly and i will go back to doing most of the cooking, as he is really uncomfortable in the kitchen

I also buy most of my jewellery. I think it's because i earn more, and he sees it as frivolous. I tried to explain to him why women get dressed up and wear jewellery, even in tiny little bush towns. I think he is finally seeing my side as to why i love bling so much.

My OH set a budget with my ering, and i stuck to it, i actually went lower. I love love love my ring, and i don't see me ever upgrading (but never say never ) for me and my lifestyle, it works perfectly. I could never see a 2ct on my finger or spending that much. Heck i am arguing with myself over a $1600 diamond at the moment!!!

 

[chemgirl]

I've been seeing this a lot in real life. Our friends are mostly professionals (mostly engineers with some doctors and lawyers mixed in) so they make good money. They think that since they make good money than can afford ANYTHING they want. Trips, eating out, jewelry, clothing, manicures, all add up. Then there are expenses like the big namebrand engagement ring, the house, and the 35k+ wedding. Including debt repayment from these big purchases, they are spending more than they're making every month and getting in to serious trouble. We were out last night and the topic of debt came up. We still have a few thousand in student loans that we plan to pay in the next 3 months. Then we're debt free. Our friends are actually accumulating more debt on a monthly basis and one couple was up to over 60k on credit cards! Sure she has a nice Tiffany ring and she served crablegs at her wedding, but all of that will mean very little when the bank stops lending to them and they can't pay their bills anymore (at this rate soon!).

Very strange - I am in Toronto and most of my friends are also engineers, doctors and lawyers (and financial folks). We do the things you mentioned above - no one is in debt (school all paid off or work pays for post-grad) and we all have nice homes, etc. Perhaps the difference is that we are in our 30s and you may be a bit younger.

I just turned 28 and my group of friends ranges in age from 25-30. I think it might be an age thing? They're spending the money before they're really established in their careers. I think its a case of being restricted financially during school and now spending way too much because they have "so much money" coming in. Its not just the day to day (though those things do add up), but its trips and large purchases as well. The 30 year olds do seem to be in a much better place than the newer grads. The married couples are far worse off than the singles. Opposite to what I would have thought.

 

[LaraOnline]

Yeah, my husband's a 'professional' (whatever that means).
Which translates homewise to: never see him (he's either flat out on the couch snoring or at work).
The upshot is I could never really get a job outside our home and business, the house and kids would totally fall apart.

I used to have a very interesting and demanding job. All the 'career girls' in my job were single, highly stressed, and looked like they dressed from their laundry basket every morning. All the men were well-suited, with pictures of kids and family besides the lovingly packed lunch on their desk. To be a real success (as in, cope with the strains of the job and hours), I felt I needed a wife!

As that could never happen, I quit the job and became one!
But I am off-topic, please forgive me!

 

[Circe]

Honestly, what I think we're seeing is that society, in general, is getting more aspirational, for guys and girls alike. I don't know if I'd say that for EVERY girl who wants a two carat ring there's a guy who wants her to be wearing it - sure, there are probably more ladies who are aware of the implications of bling, just because for guys it's generally important during the engagement period alone, whereas a woman will be judged by her ring for basically her entire life. But - I think I first read this in I Do But I Don't, and it really resonated - for a dude, giving his lady a big ring is basically a way of advertising his success, since most people still assume that it's the guy who buys the ring, rather than the ring being a joint purchase. And since we know the "rule" about it being three months salary, the e-ring basically becomes a nice way for a guy to tell the world how well he's doing (or, if he's not, to at least make them think he is).

So, no, I'm not seeing girls getting greedier. What I am seeing on other boards I peek at, is an increased interest in and lack of shame over wearing artificial gems on the part of both genders. And I don't quite know what to call that. Almost all of the women who make the choice to go fake are quick to point out the ways in which their stones are more moral than diamond (debatable) and prettier than diamond (debatable), but the fact remains, they're, a) still going for substances that mimic diamonds, and carry all the attached baggage, and, b) usually going for BIG fakes. I'm just not seeing a lot of ladies who say, "Diamonds are immoral, so I got this 1/3 carat CZ instead." It's always "Here are my moral/aesthetic justifications: now check out my 2 carat rock! Do you think it's believable?" So perhaps society is getting more ... public? More about appearances? In an age where we're quick to immortalize our lives on FB, where people can pore over the (doctored, edited, photoshopped) pics in loving detail, it sort of stands to reason ....

 

[Tuckins1]

Girls are girls. Personally, if I were a guy and my girl demanded any certain size or cost... She'd be out the door. It speaks to the personality of the individual.

 

[anne_h]

I think people in general (well, North America at least, that's the market I know) are feeling more entitled. We want what we want, and we want it now. Up until a generation or two ago, people often saved up before buying things. Now, many people prefer to avoid the delay of having to save up, and instead buy on credit. Low interest rates and the (well, at least previous) availability of relatively easy credit has made this all the more possible. It's interesting to note that consumer debt (as a percentage of total income) is pretty much the highest it's ever been.

I do like what a few others on this thread have had to say - about couples delaying marriage, therefore being older and more established, etc. So disposal income and expectations are higher. I also agree with media exposure - we see more now, so we know more, and therefore want more. lol

Personally, my dream upgrade only became available because of a great stock pick DH made years ago that finally paid off recently. Part of those proceeds were also used to pay down our mortgage.

All my other jewelry (and some of it I do consider quite nice), I've bought myself.

Personally, I would never buy jewelry with money I did not already have. But that's just me.

So bottom line - no, I don't think girls are greedier. I think what we're seeing is an artefact of an overall consumer/societal trend.

My two cents.

Anne

 

[Skippy123]

You love stirring the pot DF... Well in DD's circle only one is married, and I helped find the ring...It was an EC under 2 carats...

With the economy these days, people are just trying to keep their jobs and move forward...

I just got a 3 stone OEC ring, it's not a blingy piece. But DD saw that and said, see that's what I want for an ering....

If people are getting greedier, they need to wise up....

It's not the ring , it's a marriage... It's not the wedding... It's the life after all the candles are blown out...

That should be my new tag line!!!!

so true and very wise Kaleigh!!!

 

[LaraOnline]

I think it's definitely a USA thing as well... culturally, you guys seems to really celebrate success and enjoy showing off your spoils of success... Australia is more like England...more subdued...well that's my take on it, anyway.

Although from what I see of it, the Singaporean girls could give the Americans a good run for their money!
And i hear the Chinese girls love massive large diamonds as well

IT's probably just directly related to disposable income.. let's face it, wouldn't we all love to rock a 4ct something?
Hmm... maybe but maybe not...
and definitely maybe not for an engagement...seems kinda the opposite to what a marriage represents
But that could just be my Catholic upbringing

I the eyecandy...but a massive eternity alongside a massive discoball engagement ring?
That's just never gonna rock here...but I run with the 'get real' crowd heheh (Otherwise known as 'boring' or even 'small and cheap' heheh)
I'm sure Sydney, Perth and every other capital city has a relatively small market for out-and-over-the-top bling...

 

[Skippy123]

I think people in general (well, North America at least, that's the market I know) are feeling more entitled. We want what we want, and we want it now. Up until a generation or two ago, people often saved up before buying things. Now, many people prefer to avoid the delay of having to save up, and instead buy on credit. Low interest rates and the (well, at least previous) availability of relatively easy credit has made this all the more possible. It's interesting to note that consumer debt (as a percentage of total income) is pretty much the highest it's ever been.

My two cents.

Anne

true and people don't save as much as people in other countries.
http://topforeignstocks.com/2010/04/24/household-debt-gross-domestic-savings-china-vs-other-countries/

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I think most "girls" don't realize what 2cts costs and have probably not tried them on either. I also think there's a good amount of people out there rocking sims like they're diamonds and making people think it's perfectly normal and attainable to own a 2ct diamond on a middle class salary.

I have to admit I had these "greedy" notions when I was younger and have made a fair share of financial mistakes. I learned from them and now I know better. People are going to make mistakes, hopefully they figure it out before it's to late and they get in real financial trouble.

 

[MissStepcut]

I have two more things to add:

1) I hear a lot of girls saying their ring is "two carats" but they mean two carats total weight, and that often includes a wedding band, but with a half carat center stone and a ton of melée. So if that's your reference point, I can see wanting "two carats" without it making you a brat.

2) Others have alluded to the relationship between a man's ability to provide and carats. I think a lot of girls, when they say they want a big ring, they also mean they want to wait for the time (or the guy!) who can give them that. While there are girls who demand their boyfriend charge a $10k ring to a credit card, I think it's more common that a girl use a big demand in an engagement ring as a way of pushing off a proposal. I sometimes hear something like this: "Oh Jane is so ridiculous, she wants a two carat diamond and her boyfriend Tom only makes $20,000 a year!" Well maybe Jane doesn't want to marry Tom, or not to marry Tom until he's making $200k a year.

 

[distracts]

I think part of the problem is that today there are so many cheap (but pretty) fashion rings out there.

A girl's sense of what is estheticaly pleasing on her hand is often developed/warped by dirt cheap cz. When it comes to translate that look to gold/platinum and diamonds, she has no idea of the vast price differences.

Fashion jewellery in the last 10 years has not been about subtlety, and as a result of this influence, many girls want their engagement rings to be the ultimate statement peice. (Hello pave and halos!)

I wonder if we'll ever retun to the days when the engagement ring was a simple reminder of his affection?

I think it is this. I like pear-shaped stones, but all the ones I really LOVE are 4+ carats. This is doable for me in CZ and cheaper gemstones... not so much in diamonds. But I have plans for when I'm old and fabulously wealthy. Just you wait.

My fiance told me that I could set the budget for my ring and if it was higher than what he could do, we would save up until we could get it. I knew he could comfortably, without saving, spend $40,000, but that would mean we couldn't renovate our house that year (since that money was marked for home improvements). I spent a quarter of that, and imo ended up with an AMAZING ring. People are always telling me how much they like it and how big it is (which, really, it's only around 6.5mm across, so while it is a good size, I don't consider it huge). And the money left over we were able to use to make our home just about perfect. IMO spending that money on a ring would have been kind of ridiculous, and spending more even more so. Not for everyone - but for us. There are people who can afford $40,000 rings or more expensive ones easily, but we are not those people (yet! we are young, give us some time!). And if we had spent three month's salary on a ring... god, I'm glad we both find that rule to be ridiculous, because even though I LOVE jewelry, I think spending that much huge a percentage of your income on it would be extremely unwise.

And yes, I think a lot of it is ignorance. They know that bigger stones are expensive, but they don't even have a baseline price for what a one carat stone costs, and have NO idea they're asking for a ring that costs at least $30,000. I think if they knew the prices, they would adjust their expectations. I think jewelers and men are complicit in this - when my fiance and I were shopping for rings, the jewelers would always write the prices down on a little piece of paper and show it to my fiance, and wouldn't show it to me, and were reluctant to even after he told them they HAD to. So you can even go shopping for a ring and be ignorant of its price! I bet there are PLENTY of men who never let their fiancee know the engagement ring budget or the price of the final ring. The whole thing where the ring has to be a surprise doesn't help either.

 

[HollyS]

I wouldn't call it greed. Exactly. I'd label it . . . entitlement.

And we've had this conversation many times.

This is true! Ive seen this happen with many of the young couples Ive helped over the years!The young lady has seen the excitement caused by her mother or grandmothers ring or upgrade and is determined that is what she wants regardless of cost to her future fiance so she can show everyone how much he really loves her.Ive witnessed many a fight over this exact topic. 20 years ago it was a carat and now today its 2 carats. When this happens its a sure thing that one or both of the couple are not ready for marriage!

I didn't know my guy had been storing up funds for a ring purchase, and was floored by what he was willing to spend. But . . . he knew I would have married him, at the courthouse, with a plain band.

As Kim K. has so clearly demonstrated, real love has little to do with fairytales and flaunting.

 

[VRBeauty]

my nephew's gf wants a 2ct Ering and couple of my friend's gfs are thinking 1.5- 2ct. i guess a 1ct stone ain't good enough anymore...

I suspect that if you look for girls who are "demanding" 2 ct Erings you can find them...

and if you look for girls who are more interested marrying the guy, no matter what the ring, you can find them too.

And I'm guessing that what you're hearing from your nephews includes a fair amount of hyperbole. Sort of a game of "my girl's demands are bigger than your girl's demands..."

 

[rosetta]

I dont know anyone who would demand a 2 ct ring.

Sure, plenty would WANT one but wouldn't be as crass as to DEMAND one.