are any of you not planning on having children?

[got2goldens]

Date: 4/23/2009 12:05:05 PM
Author: Logan Sapphire

Date: 4/23/2009 11:02:46 AM
Author: elledizzy5
Both parents are eligible for leave for a child for up to 12 weeks, whether it is a biological, adopted, or fostered child.


I don''t know why it would matter if someone physically gave birth or not, it''s still a new baby in the home, and they''re entitled to their time with their new baby. Men don''t give birth, and they''re entitled, so the same rules would apply to those who adopt.

Exactly!!!! Bonding and attachment are such important aspects of becoming a new family, and adoption experts have written a ton on how to bond and the dangers of not bonding. In fact, our agency mandates that one parent take off at least 6 weeks from work to care for their child.

In our case, our daughter went from spending almost 11 months with her foster mom (to whom she became very attached) to a new life with us, literally overnight. In the two visits and one overnight we had with her prior to our flight home, she screamed the entire time. Bloodcurdling screams too. She hated us and literally attempted to leap into her foster mom''s arms. She screamed non-stop the entire 14 hour flight back too. So I think it would''ve been a terrible and probably very damaging thing to immediately go back to work and put her in daycare, don''t you think??

And to answer Simply Splendid''s question, both my husband and I are each taking off 3 months to stay with her.

In the federal govt, we found that adoption and bio children aren''t treated quite the same. I could not use my sick leave for ''bonding'' or ''caring'' for my healthy adopted child, according to the Office of Personnel Management. http://www.opm.gov/oca/leave/HTML/adoptionfs.asp. I totally think that''s wrong, and fortunately, neither my employer nor my husband''s employer enforces that.

LoganSapphire,
Congratulations on completing the adoption of your daughter!
Just curious, you mentioned she had a foster mom...did you adopt from Guatemala? That''s where our daughter is from...

~Kat

 

[AGBF]

Date: 4/23/2009 12:05:05 PM
Author: Logan Sapphire

In our case, our daughter went from spending almost 11 months with her foster mom (to whom she became very attached) to a new life with us, literally overnight. In the two visits and one overnight we had with her prior to our flight home, she screamed the entire time. Bloodcurdling screams too. She hated us and literally attempted to leap into her foster mom's arms. She screamed non-stop the entire 14 hour flight back too.

LS, I don't know how you endured this. I really don't. Your empathy for your daughter must have been overflowing. I know that I could not have endured that kind of vicarious emotional pain; it is why adopting a young infant was among my top priorities when we were going through the adoption process.

Of course you could not have placed her in day care as soon as she came home! She was traumatized! How is she now? How much time has passed since you brought her home?

By the way, was she 11 months old when you brought her home or was she older and had she spent time somewhere else besides the home of this foster mother?

AGBF

 

[trillionaire]

There is nothing inherently selfish about not wanting kids. It is selfish to HAVE kids, and then not prioritize their care and needs.

When people ask me why I don''t want kids, I say, "Why would I?" This tends to fluster and confuse them.

Then they start babbling about giving my parents grandkids...

 

[got2goldens]

Date: 4/23/2009 1:27:31 PM
Author: trillionaire
There is nothing inherently selfish about not wanting kids. It is selfish to HAVE kids, and then not prioritize their care and needs.

When people ask me why I don''t want kids, I say, ''Why would I?'' This tends to fluster and confuse them.

Then they start babbling about giving my parents grandkids...

Totally agree with you there, Trillionaire. Both on the selfishness regarding having kids, but not prioritizing the kids'' care and needs...and I do hear you about nosy people. Seriously, what the heck do they care??? It''s not their life...sheesh!

Interestingly enough, now that we have adopted our daughter, I have at least 1 person per week ask if we are going to "get another one." WHAT DO THEY CARE??? Yeah, I''ve heard the guilt trip too, why don''t you give your parents another grandchild? Uh, no thanks...one is enough for us! (well, we also have 2 dogs and a cat that are babies to us as well

)

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. I feel cleansed now as a result of venting here...thanks to all who listened and have had input! And sorry for any threadjacking I may have caused...

~Kat

 

[simplysplendid]

Date: 4/23/2009 12:05:05 PM
Author: Logan Sapphire

Date: 4/23/2009 11:02:46 AM
Author: elledizzy5
Both parents are eligible for leave for a child for up to 12 weeks, whether it is a biological, adopted, or fostered child.


I don''t know why it would matter if someone physically gave birth or not, it''s still a new baby in the home, and they''re entitled to their time with their new baby. Men don''t give birth, and they''re entitled, so the same rules would apply to those who adopt.

Exactly!!!! Bonding and attachment are such important aspects of becoming a new family, and adoption experts have written a ton on how to bond and the dangers of not bonding. In fact, our agency mandates that one parent take off at least 6 weeks from work to care for their child.

In our case, our daughter went from spending almost 11 months with her foster mom (to whom she became very attached) to a new life with us, literally overnight. In the two visits and one overnight we had with her prior to our flight home, she screamed the entire time. Bloodcurdling screams too. She hated us and literally attempted to leap into her foster mom''s arms. She screamed non-stop the entire 14 hour flight back too. So I think it would''ve been a terrible and probably very damaging thing to immediately go back to work and put her in daycare, don''t you think??

And to answer Simply Splendid''s question, both my husband and I are each taking off 3 months to stay with her.

In the federal govt, we found that adoption and bio children aren''t treated quite the same. I could not use my sick leave for ''bonding'' or ''caring'' for my healthy adopted child, according to the Office of Personnel Management. http://www.opm.gov/oca/leave/HTML/adoptionfs.asp. I totally think that''s wrong, and fortunately, neither my employer nor my husband''s employer enforces that.

Hi, I see the need for bonding. I think the initial issues/challenges for having delivering a newborn and adopting an older child rather different. After a mother has delivered a newborn, she is not at the best of her health and her body needs recovery. That''s why leave, if taken after an adoption, is not considered sick leave. That said, I believe insurance companies and many government do not even consider maternity leave sick leave. In Singapore, insurance companies will never allow maternity expenses to be claimed as illness. Government medical subsidies at hospitals may also not apply to maternity cases.

Looking after a newborn is also very physically draining as they wake up every 3 hours or so for a feed. That said, bonding with a newborn may be a little easier than bonding with say a 1 year old toddler and the bond may take longer to achieve the older the child gets. How old is your child? Do you have any other assistance rather than daycare? I understand that it will be hard to put her in day care now but just a heads up that starting daycare is traumatic to a young child, whether they are your own, and whether you have bonded or not. Have you considered starting daycare a little earlier before your leave ends so that you can help her adjust to daycare by being there for the first week or two?

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Date: 4/23/2009 12:44:11 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 4/23/2009 12:05:05 PM

Author: Logan Sapphire


In our case, our daughter went from spending almost 11 months with her foster mom (to whom she became very attached) to a new life with us, literally overnight. In the two visits and one overnight we had with her prior to our flight home, she screamed the entire time. Bloodcurdling screams too. She hated us and literally attempted to leap into her foster mom''s arms. She screamed non-stop the entire 14 hour flight back too.

LS, I don''t know how you endured this. I really don''t. Your empathy for your daughter must have been overflowing. I know that I could not have endured that kind of vicarious emotional pain; it is why adopting a young infant was among my top priorities when we were going through the adoption process.


Of course you could not have placed her in day care as soon as she came home! She was traumatized! How is she now? How much time has passed since you brought her home?


By the way, was she 11 months old when you brought her home or was she older and had she spent time somewhere else besides the home of this foster mother?


AGBF

She''s been home 2 weeks today! These days, Korean children are a little older than they used to be when they come home. This is because the Korean government wants to promote domestic adoption and passed a new law that children must be held in Korea for 5 months before they''re eligible for international adoption. But in general, there''s a stigma against adoption in Korean culture, and no one wants to adopt. As a result, the babies are at least 5 months old before they can be adopted internationally. Our daughter was 7 months when we accepted her referral, and it took almost 4 months of additional paperwork before we could travel.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Date: 4/23/2009 7:54:06 PM
Author: simplysplendid

Hi, I see the need for bonding. I think the initial issues/challenges for having delivering a newborn and adopting an older child rather different. After a mother has delivered a newborn, she is not at the best of her health and her body needs recovery. That''s why leave, if taken after an adoption, is not considered sick leave. That said, I believe insurance companies and many government do not even consider maternity leave sick leave. In Singapore, insurance companies will never allow maternity expenses to be claimed as illness. Government medical subsidies at hospitals may also not apply to maternity cases.


Looking after a newborn is also very physically draining as they wake up every 3 hours or so for a feed. That said, bonding with a newborn may be a little easier than bonding with say a 1 year old toddler and the bond may take longer to achieve the older the child gets. How old is your child? Do you have any other assistance rather than daycare? I understand that it will be hard to put her in day care now but just a heads up that starting daycare is traumatic to a young child, whether they are your own, and whether you have bonded or not. Have you considered starting daycare a little earlier before your leave ends so that you can help her adjust to daycare by being there for the first week or two?

I don''t want to totally threadjack this, but the adoption discussion is simply too interesting to pass up! My daughter is 11 months old, and yes, we''re going to ease her into daycare. You may not have recognized the significance of your wording, but I do consider my child to be my own, despite the fact that I didn''t give birth to her.

Having any child is a choice, whether by birth or adoption. I understand this, and I don''t believe that child-free people should bear a greater burden because some choose children. But I wish that insurance and employers would be more understanding (yes, I''m looking at you, Uncle Sam) and flexible with adoption as well. If you think about it, my adoption had no physical effects on me, unlike pregnancy. I never had to go to a dr''s appointment and didn''t have the insurance company cover the costs of my labor, delivery, and recovery, which surely would cost waaaay more than adoption if people had to pay out of pocket. Yet people act like you have unreasonable demands and costs. I just don''t get it.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 4/23/2009 9:51:46 PM
Author: Logan Sapphire

Date: 4/23/2009 7:54:06 PM
Author: simplysplendid

Hi, I see the need for bonding. I think the initial issues/challenges for having delivering a newborn and adopting an older child rather different. After a mother has delivered a newborn, she is not at the best of her health and her body needs recovery. That''s why leave, if taken after an adoption, is not considered sick leave. That said, I believe insurance companies and many government do not even consider maternity leave sick leave. In Singapore, insurance companies will never allow maternity expenses to be claimed as illness. Government medical subsidies at hospitals may also not apply to maternity cases.


Looking after a newborn is also very physically draining as they wake up every 3 hours or so for a feed. That said, bonding with a newborn may be a little easier than bonding with say a 1 year old toddler and the bond may take longer to achieve the older the child gets. How old is your child? Do you have any other assistance rather than daycare? I understand that it will be hard to put her in day care now but just a heads up that starting daycare is traumatic to a young child, whether they are your own, and whether you have bonded or not. Have you considered starting daycare a little earlier before your leave ends so that you can help her adjust to daycare by being there for the first week or two?

I don''t want to totally threadjack this, but the adoption discussion is simply too interesting to pass up! My daughter is 11 months old, and yes, we''re going to ease her into daycare. You may not have recognized the significance of your wording, but I do consider my child to be my own, despite the fact that I didn''t give birth to her.

Having any child is a choice, whether by birth or adoption. I understand this, and I don''t believe that child-free people should bear a greater burden because some choose children. But I wish that insurance and employers would be more understanding (yes, I''m looking at you, Uncle Sam) and flexible with adoption as well. If you think about it, my adoption had no physical effects on me, unlike pregnancy. I never had to go to a dr''s appointment and didn''t have the insurance company cover the costs of my labor, delivery, and recovery, which surely would cost waaaay more than adoption if people had to pay out of pocket. Yet people act like you have unreasonable demands and costs. I just don''t get it.

Logan Sapphire,
Congrats on your daughter, I knew you were looking into adoption. I am beyond thrilled for you. I had fun meeting you and your sister way back when. You saw my asscher , won''t forget your kindness.

Can you start a new thread?? We''d love to hear all that you have been through. My SIL adopted a few years ago. My nephew is just the best kid ever. I''d love to hear more about your experience. I am sure it will help many. How is your sister doing, does she love being an Auntie???
All the best,
Lisa

 

[simplysplendid]

Date: 4/23/2009 9:51:46 PM
Author: Logan Sapphire

Date: 4/23/2009 7:54:06 PM
Author: simplysplendid

Hi, I see the need for bonding. I think the initial issues/challenges for having delivering a newborn and adopting an older child rather different. After a mother has delivered a newborn, she is not at the best of her health and her body needs recovery. That''s why leave, if taken after an adoption, is not considered sick leave. That said, I believe insurance companies and many government do not even consider maternity leave sick leave. In Singapore, insurance companies will never allow maternity expenses to be claimed as illness. Government medical subsidies at hospitals may also not apply to maternity cases.


Looking after a newborn is also very physically draining as they wake up every 3 hours or so for a feed. That said, bonding with a newborn may be a little easier than bonding with say a 1 year old toddler and the bond may take longer to achieve the older the child gets. How old is your child? Do you have any other assistance rather than daycare? I understand that it will be hard to put her in day care now but just a heads up that starting daycare is traumatic to a young child, whether they are your own, and whether you have bonded or not. Have you considered starting daycare a little earlier before your leave ends so that you can help her adjust to daycare by being there for the first week or two?

I don''t want to totally threadjack this, but the adoption discussion is simply too interesting to pass up! My daughter is 11 months old, and yes, we''re going to ease her into daycare. You may not have recognized the significance of your wording, but I do consider my child to be my own, despite the fact that I didn''t give birth to her.

Having any child is a choice, whether by birth or adoption. I understand this, and I don''t believe that child-free people should bear a greater burden because some choose children. But I wish that insurance and employers would be more understanding (yes, I''m looking at you, Uncle Sam) and flexible with adoption as well. If you think about it, my adoption had no physical effects on me, unlike pregnancy. I never had to go to a dr''s appointment and didn''t have the insurance company cover the costs of my labor, delivery, and recovery, which surely would cost waaaay more than adoption if people had to pay out of pocket. Yet people act like you have unreasonable demands and costs. I just don''t get it.

Logan, I think I could have phrased that better. I do not mean to say that an adopted child is not your own. The original intent of my statement was to say that daycare will be traumatic to any child, whether he/she is adopted or not.