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Appreciate thoughts about this Asscher

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xander8888

Rough_Rock
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A month ago I knew nothing about diamonds. After many hours of research and reading through the numerous informative posts on this board I know a little more, but no where even close to the knowledge of many people here. Would really value your opinions on the following stone...

Carat Weight 1.2ct
Color E
Clarity VVS1
Polish Good
Symmetry Very Good
Fluorescence Faint
Width 5.66mm
Length 5.65mm
Depth 4.21mm
Table Percentage 58.00%
Depth Percentage 74.50%

Many thanks for your valuable opinions. Here is a pic and ideal-scope image.

Image_00236.JPG
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
not bad but it is very very deep it would have to have a 22%+ crown height before I would consider it.
What is the crown height?
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
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23
I am going to find out the crown height tomorrow and will post it.

I was afraid of the depth being too large. From reading other opinions on the various Asschers posted here I thought that was not a very bad thing though with this type of stone.

thanks for your opinion.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
23,295
depth in the right place isn''t an issue.
But if its all in the pavilion then it isn''t good.
The trade off in spread isn''t worth it and there are performance issues.
Over 70 should be discounted unless it has a very very high crown.
The problem is with that one it would have to be discounted under the 1ct cost point if the crown isn''t high enough and it wont be discounted that much.
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
I see what you mean about where the depth actually is. That certainly helps me understand a little more.

Without knowing crown height is it possible to say what an ''average'' depth for a good Asscher would be or should depth and crown height always be considered together?
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Date: 4/22/2009 12:16:31 AM
Author: xander8888
I see what you mean about where the depth actually is. That certainly helps me understand a little more.


Without knowing crown height is it possible to say what an 'average' depth for a good Asscher would be or should depth and crown height always be considered together?
under 70 unless it has a very very high crown.
In general the best on the market today are usually in the 65-68 range with some in the 60-65 range.
Very few are cut right to make going over 70 worth it.
Keep the table under 65 and a high crown(10% min, 15% even better)
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
Got 2 more today that seem to have more reasonable depths. Waiting to get info on Crown Height on these and the one I posted yesterday.

1. 1.25c F VVS2

67.5% depth,
64% table,
Excellent Polish,
Very Good Symmetry,
faint fluorescence,
measures 5.90 x 5.88 x 3.97 mm
Very thick Girdle (concerning?)

Pics of this one attached


2. 1.22c F VVS2

68.1% depth
64% table
Excellent Polish,
Good Symmetry,
no fluorescence
measures 5.97 x 5.95 x 4.05 mm
Thick Girdle

No pic of this one yet.

#1 is about $1900 more than #2.

Any thoughts on these?

Image_00238.JPG
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
latest round of pics looks real good.
Whats the CH?
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
with the great advice I was well positioned to do better! I will have CH tomorrow.

I do have one more I'm looking at too. I really like this one although from what I think I understand the table is borderline acceptable.

1.23 E VVS2 - $7850 wire price
Fluorescence - Faint
Symmetry & Polish - Very Good
Measurements: 5.89x5.87x4.02

Image_00240.JPG
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
23,295
Date: 4/22/2009 8:44:49 PM
Author: xander8888
with the great advice I was well positioned to do better! I will have CH tomorrow.


I do have one more I''m looking at too. I really like this one although from what I think I understand the table is borderline acceptable.


1.23 E VVS2 - $7850 wire price

Fluorescence - Faint

Symmetry & Polish - Very Good

Measurements: 5.89x5.87x4.02
2 much green in aset
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
how bad is that? Would a diamond with similar specs but more red typically be priced significantly higher than a stone like this?

Reading on the ideal-scope site it says green is ''ok'' and ''it is reflected and from windows''. Does the last part mean that instead of light entering from a diagonal angle the light will enter mostly through the sides?


thanks again.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Date: 4/23/2009 2:32:20 AM
Author: xander8888
how bad is that? Would a diamond with similar specs but more red typically be priced significantly higher than a stone like this?


Reading on the ideal-scope site it says green is ''ok'' and ''it is reflected and from windows''. Does the last part mean that instead of light entering from a diagonal angle the light will enter mostly through the sides?



thanks again.
overhead light is generally stronger so red = brighter to some degree.
Some green is fine but to much can be an issue.
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
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Date: 4/23/2009 3:25:17 AM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 4/23/2009 2:32:20 AM

Author: xander8888

how bad is that? Would a diamond with similar specs but more red typically be priced significantly higher than a stone like this?



Reading on the ideal-scope site it says green is 'ok' and 'it is reflected and from windows'. Does the last part mean that instead of light entering from a diagonal angle the light will enter mostly through the sides?




thanks again.
overhead light is generally stronger so red = brighter to some degree.

Some green is fine but to much can be an issue.

thanks.

Would this one be better?

Carat: 1.30
Color: E
Clarity: VVS2
Ratio: 1.02
Measurements: 5.99x5.87x4.06
Depth Percentage: 68.5
Table Percentage: 64.6
Crown Height: 15.8%
Girdle: Thick to Very Thick
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None
Culet: None

Image_00241.JPG
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,295
Date: 4/23/2009 11:09:39 AM
Author: xander8888
other images for the 1.3 mentioned above.
better but not optimal.
It is in the range where there is a chance its a good one.

Do you have an ASET of the 1.25 you posted pictures of above in the tweezers?
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
nope. vendor does not have one to send. Still waiting on the crown height for that one as well.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Date: 4/23/2009 11:56:11 AM
Author: xander8888
nope. vendor does not have one to send. Still waiting on the crown height for that one as well.
Ask them to take a picture of it against a dark background since they don''t do ASET.
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
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Date: 4/23/2009 12:04:05 PM
Author: strmrdr


Ask them to take a picture of it against a dark background since they don't do ASET.
For the 1.25 in the tweezers above: The crown height is 15.4%, and the pavilion depth is 46.9%

Image against a dark background is coming soon...
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
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Hi Storm,

Any thoughts now that I know crown height is 15.4%, and the pavilion depth is 46.9% and have the dark background image? Don't mean to be pushy but I'm really anxious to know your and anyone else's opinion!!
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,295
Date: 4/23/2009 2:11:31 PM
Author: xander8888
And here's the pics against a dark background...
Date: 4/23/2009 2:11:31 PM
Author: xander8888
And here's the pics against a dark background...
That is my favorite so far.
An aset would help to confirm that but it is talking to me and the pics look good.
It is hard to explain why it is speaking to me where with aset it is easy to explain.
I would give it serious consideration.
What is the return policy?
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
Full return. Union Diamond.

Wish they''d send an ASET but they say they don''t have them.

I think I''m going to go with it and hope for the best. Whatever I give her I know she will be happy. Unless it''s like coal she would never part with it I''m sure.

The sales contact said it is a 4 step which is less common. I counted against the other stones I posted and I don''t really see that. I''m sure I''m not doing it right.

many thanks!!
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 4/23/2009 8:43:48 PM
Author: xander8888
Full return. Union Diamond.


Wish they'd send an ASET but they say they don't have them.


I think I'm going to go with it and hope for the best. Whatever I give her I know she will be happy. Unless it's like coal she would never part with it I'm sure.


The sales contact said it is a 4 step which is less common. I counted against the other stones I posted and I don't really see that. I'm sure I'm not doing it right.


many thanks!!
thats kewl
The 4 steps would be on the pavilion.
looking over what else you have found I think I would be real tempted to take an in person look at it.
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
Date: 4/23/2009 9:05:42 PM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 4/23/2009 8:43:48 PM
thats kewl

The 4 steps would be on the pavilion.

looking over what else you have found I think I would be real tempted to take an in person look at it.
I'm going to see the one with too much green in the ASET tomorrow in person just to have a look. Am going to ask for clarification on the steps as I'm having a tough time knowing where to begin and end counting using the pics alone!

Anyway, the vendor for the one with too much green said the following without any prompting at all from me. I never mentioned or asked about the green.

"Also the aset pic is a little blurry viewing the diamond live you will see less green also I am getting a new aset camera next week and the pic's will look much better."

I don't know how blurriness causes green to appear but I'm willing to hear him out.


Leaning very hevily towards the 1.25 4 step though. I really like the way it looks (probably most important) in the pics and as a complete novice trust the valuable feedback you've given, even without an ASET.
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
For the record, the crown height is 19.3% for the very first stone I posted with the very high depth. Below your suggested 22%.

I was sent part of the Sarin report and the rest of the details are in the image below.

Going to see the one with too much green on Sunday but still leaning very heavily towards the 1.25 in the tweezers.

Image_00245.JPG
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 4/24/2009 9:12:22 PM
Author: xander8888
For the record, the crown height is 19.3% for the very first stone I posted with the very high depth. Below your suggested 22%.


I was sent part of the Sarin report and the rest of the details are in the image below.


Going to see the one with too much green on Sunday but still leaning very heavily towards the 1.25 in the tweezers.
19 is kewl but it just don''t make up for a 74% depth.

kewl you are going to see it report back on what you think of it.
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
Hey storm - out of curiosity - what is it about the dark background that helps if no aset is available? What do you look for that gives an indication of whether or not a diamond could be good or bad?

I had a look at the stone with green in it today and will post more details a little later...


Thanks!!
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 4/26/2009 9:03:48 PM
Author: xander8888
Hey storm - out of curiosity - what is it about the dark background that helps if no aset is available? What do you look for that gives an indication of whether or not a diamond could be good or bad?


I had a look at the stone with green in it today and will post more details a little later...



Thanks!!
leakage and patterns


http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/60/1/Performance-and-the-p3-facets%2c-a-discussion-about-step-cut-diamonds.aspx
 

xander8888

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
23
that helps but I need to read it a few more times to really digest it.

Correct me if I''m wrong, but for a novice like myself, I think this is one of the more important parts, especially without an ASET.

"Notice the area the red arrow points to is very close to the color of the background. This can be used to detect leakage but one needs to be very familiar with such photo setup results to make the call."

So I take this to mean that if against a dark background, the more of that background that shows through the more potential leakage.

This is the one with the green in the ASET that I had posted, with it against a dark background. I take it the black background showing in the different parts of the diamond could indicate leakage?

Image_00247.JPG
 
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