Appreciate any input

[micmac]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for all people that contribute to this forum and make buying a little less daunting and scary. I have educated myself as much as possible using mostly this site. I believe I have found _the_ diamond and here are the stats. I just want to get an oppinion from the community. Thanks in advance for your time and feedback.


Measurements: 6.52 - 6.56 x 3.94 mm
Carat Weight: 1.03 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: SI1 (apparantly SI1+ very eye clean)
Cut Grade: Excellent
-----
Depth: 60.3%
Table: 58%
Crown Angle: 33.0°
Crown Height: 14.0%
Pavilion Angle: 41.0°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
--------
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
-------

What is holding me back? Well not being able to see the stone before I buy. I must also confess I am hesitant on the H and SI1 even though I have read countless times that going up (one level) will bring very marginal visible differences, but big price increasses.

Thanks everyone,
Mike

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Mike!

The diamond has potential, if it is with an online seller then they might be able to supply an ASET or Idealscope image on request, that would give us more info on this diamond.

 

[micmac]

Hi Lorelei,

Thanks for the super fast reply and input! Yes it is through an online retailer and I have just sent off an email requesting the images. I''m not sure if they will be available, since I would have hoped they would have been sent along with the GIA certificate in the beginning without having to ask.

What do you (or anyone else) suggest as a course of action if the images are not available. I know the HCA isn''t a definitive measure of a great cut, but a score of 0.8 seems very good.

Thanks !

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/23/2009 12:39:36 PM
Author: micmac
Hi Lorelei,

Thanks for the super fast reply and input! Yes it is through an online retailer and I have just sent off an email requesting the images. I'm not sure if they will be available, since I would have hoped they would have been sent along with the GIA certificate in the beginning without having to ask.

What do you (or anyone else) suggest as a course of action if the images are not available. I know the HCA isn't a definitive measure of a great cut, but a score of 0.8 seems very good.

Thanks !

Glad to help!

If images aren't available, make sure the seller has a solid return policy in case you want to order it. It has potential but thats really all that can be said without more info. Also with the HCA a lower score isn't better than a higher one, the aim is to score below 2 and use it as a rejection tool, not for selection.

 

[micmac]

Lorelei - Thanks again for your reply. Your help is really appreciated.

I have confirmed that images are not available for that diamond. The vendor I am working with does not have the diamond on hand and the holder of the diamond does not provide those images. The vendor made what sounds like a good suggestion. Have the diamond sent to AGA and have Chris look at it and provide the necessary images. Now, this would obviously cost me money, but I wouldn''t have to pay for the stone unless I wanted it in the end. I guess what I''m trying to say/ask is whether this stone is worth making that investment in. Are the ASET and/or Idealscope the final pieces in determining whether the stone is a performer or not.

Again all comments/suggestions/feedback welcome.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[micmac]

I''m thinking of going ahead with having the ASET and idealscope images taken. If anyone thinks the proportions (or anything) on this stone are bad and that images are not going to change your opinion - please let me know

Thanks!
Mike

 

[micmac]

I realize this may be a impossible to answer question. But going strictly off numbers does this appear to be a better diamond? (besides the better color and clarity score).

Carat: 0.822
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
. Depth %: 61.5
. Table %: 56
. Crown Angle: 34.5
. Crown %: 15.2
. Star : 49
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 6.00-6.02X3.70
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

Stone

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/24/2009 1:30:04 PM
Author: micmac
I realize this may be a impossible to answer question. But going strictly off numbers does this appear to be a better diamond? (besides the better color and clarity score).

Carat: 0.822
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
. Depth %: 61.5
. Table %: 56
. Crown Angle: 34.5
. Crown %: 15.2
. Star : 49
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 6.00-6.02X3.70
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

Stone

This diamond looks great! My preference is for this one compared to the other - however if you like the sound of the other one then letting Chris at AGA take a look is certainly an option.

 

[micmac]

Hi Lorelei,

I respect your opinion very much - so can I ask you why you suggest the second over the first?

I''ve learned that a lower score on the HCA isn''t an indication of better cut (thanks for sharing that) and it is used for rejection. The first stone scores excellent on Light Return,Fire,Scintillation, and Spread. The second stone has excellent except on the spread.

I have a bachelor of mathematics so I appologize for my obsession with numbers I''ve been raised to trust the numbers.

(I feel like I should pay you for all this consultation)

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/24/2009 1:51:34 PM
Author: micmac
Hi Lorelei,

I respect your opinion very much - so can I ask you why you suggest the second over the first?

I've learned that a lower score on the HCA isn't an indication of better cut (thanks for sharing that) and it is used for rejection. The first stone scores excellent on Light Return,Fire,Scintillation, and Spread. The second stone has excellent except on the spread.

I have a bachelor of mathematics so I appologize for my obsession with numbers I've been raised to trust the numbers.

(I feel like I should pay you for all this consultation)

Thanks,
Mike

You are very kind Mike thank you!

The second diamond has numbers which fall smack dab into the sweet spot for many here. These proportions will give an excellent display of fire, brilliance, scintillation etc, all the things we value in a diamond. As to the spread, all but the more shallow diamonds will get a VG for spread so this is not of concern. We also know it is a branded h&a diamond if that type of precision cutting and patterning appeals to you.

The first diamond has a slightly shallower crown angle, usually this means that you can get a greater display of brilliance, fire or coloured light may be a bit less. Also GIA numbers are rounded as in the first diamond, AGS numbers in the second are considered to be more accurate.

Therefore to sum up, you have two promising diamonds here, but in my opinion with the first, it is a case of a good diamond which could possibly be excellent with further investigation, or with the second which we know to be a great diamond with all the info already provided. But really to me the second diamond is likely to be the best all round performer in any case. Also with WF you do get various benefits ( I don't know which seller has the other diamond) such as a solid upgrade policy etc.

 

[micmac]

That is great feedback once again, thank you! I read up on the complimentary angles in this post (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-found-one-need-some-advise.113579/)- so I see what you mean about the sweeter spot for the second diamond.



Chris from AGA is unfortunately unable to take ASET images. I would need to have a full appraisal done to get an idealscope image taken.

I took a look at the certificate again and noticed on the scan that there is a sticker at the top that says AGS Round. I suspect is related to an AGS certificate because the numbers are not rounded like on the GIA cert.
Table:57.9
Depth:60.6
Pavi: 41.0
Crown: 33.1
Cutlet: 0.4%

If I plug those numbers into the HCA the 0.8 score goes to 0.9. But way more importantly is that the spread changes to Very Good. So it is exactly the same as the WF stone.

The only problem is that the WF stone is 1 carrat. The price of the two stones is almost identical. I''m still trying to find a way to get ASET and idealscope images for that stone. But in the mean time I think I will keep looking

(I guess no one ever claimed this would be easy).

 

[micmac]

Any thoughts if this one is better than the original? I think the angles are a bit more on par with what some of the senior members prefer.

Thanks,

ROUND BRILLIANT
Measurements: 6.39 - 6.45 x 3.94 mm
Carat Weight: 1.01 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent

PROPORTIONS:
Depth: 61.4%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown Height: 14.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None

FINISH:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Mike!

This diamond definitely requires an Idealscope image as the angles are hovering around the shallower end, the diamond could be perfectly fine but an Idealscope image would be good to confirm. Who has this diamond, is it WF? Also don't go by the HCA to select a diamond, the aim is to just use it for rejection, all but the most shallow diamonds get a VG for spread, this is usual.

 

[girlie-girl]

Hi Micmac.

Are the different stones close in price? If so, how much would an appraisal add to the cost?

So far, I am also liking the second stone you posted from WF best. I tend to navigate toward VS2 or better and I like the higher color grades as well. This of course is just a personal choice. You can often save a bit of money by dropping into the SI stones.

Unless the other two stones are significantly less, I''d go with a known performer which is the WF ACA.

Good luck deciding!

 

[micmac]

I wasn''t sure about the rules regarding price posting, but I guess since it is publicly available it should be fine.

The non-WF diamonds are from USA Certed Diamonds and the prices are approx $4,200. Which is at the maximum end of my budget. Similar stones from WF are $5000-6200 (over my budget). I live in Canada so a $800 difference is much more once you factor in duty and currency conversion (and is roughly my budget for a band).

I''m having a hard time finding an appraiser that can take images of the idealscope and ASET. Chris from AGA can provide idealscope but it would be a part of a full $150 appraisal. I am reaching out to a couple more appraisers.

I''ve scoured the forums and read over this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/41-degree-pavillion-angle.65301/page-4 in an effort to find an answer my self for the question of "what are good angles".

It seems that the answer is a little controversial and personal preference has a bit to do with it. But I see why the WF is preferred, it has a pavilion of 40.7 and crown of 34.5. It is just not the weight I had hoped for

All that being said, is my quest impossible with these requirements
Size: minimum 1.00
Color: F - H
Clarity: VS2 - SS1
Shape : Round
Budget: $4300 US

I care most about the Cut (thanks to this forum )

Again thank you for all the help and input from.

 

[Lorelei]

Mic, if you want help on angle ranges, the text below might help from expert John Pollard.

"configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near complementary angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35)."

I will take a look for you and see what I can find for diamonds which might suit you. The above one might be fine, it is just that the angle combo warrants further evaluation if possible.

Here is one which might work if the cloud inclusion isn't causing a lack of brilliance, you would need to ask the vendor.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1203465.asp

 

[micmac]

That stone looked pretty good - although there seemed to be quite a bit of inclusions right in the center.

I have a stone here for your expert review

This is probably going to be the last stone I look at. I''m going to decide between the first, second and this one below.

ROUND BRILLIANT
Measurements: 6.36 - 6.45 x 3.94 mm
Carat Weight: 1.0 carat
Color Grade: G
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent

PROPORTIONS:
Depth: 61.6%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 34.0°
Crown Height: 14.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Girdle: Slightly Thick, Faceted (4.0%)
Culet: None

FINISH:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good

Fluorescence: None

Scores < 2 on the HCA so it is not a rejection.

Thank you again for your time and feedback.

 

[Lorelei]

Hi mic,

The diamond certainly has potential, any chance of an Idealscope or ASET image? Don't worry about VG symmetry unless you particularly wanted excellent, you won't notice the difference with the naked untrained eye. Make sure it is eyeclean to your standards by checking with the vendor.