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Appraiser uncertainty!?!?

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Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
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31,003
So today I called up an appraiser that is local to me that I found referred from Pricescope. Lots of great diamond credentials, 30+ years, a Master Gemologist, etc. Spoke briefly with her, and then told her what we wanted to bring in (our 1.23c G VS1 not-quite-the-best-technical-cut stone purchased a few days ago) to have appraised. Asked her what she does for the appraisal, what reports etc. She doesn't do BrillianceScope but does IdealScope (is this good enough?), and she doesn't do Sarin reports because she doesn't have a machine-which is okay as we have the Sarin results from our jeweler's wholesaler. But she said she would do a cut quality appraisal as well and map out the diamond somehow.

So when I filled her in on the characteristics of the diamond, namely that the table was 62% and the crown angle was a very shallow 29.9..she completely flipped out. She said it was a horrible cut and that we shouldn't buy it. Oh, did I forget to mention we did already? Apparently to her I did. So once she hears that, she starts asking me questions, like where did I get it, why did we buy it, she hopes we got a good deal, etc. I filled her in a bit, but she really was feeling like this was not the best purchase, before even seeing the diamond. She spouted the 34.5 ideal crown angle numbers, and said that the pavilion was too deep (the depth was 56.9..is that too deep for a 29.9 crown angle?). I told her the HCA gave it a great brilliance score and she said that of course it was brilliant, it would shine tons of white light, but have no fire at all inside. :((

Anyway--after the call I was very disturbed and filled in the boyfriend on what had transpired. He of course freaked out as well because making the final decision to purchase this baby was really his idea as he loved it, even despite the strange measurements and characteristics. The fact that it might really be an 'undesirable' has him very upset. Anyhow, after I tried to calm him down, we discussed arrangements to get the diamond from our jeweler and drive it over to the appraiser a few cities away (in CA thats far!).

So we'll do that this weekend. She will appraise the stone next week and let us know her findings. I am very interested to see what she finds. I am still disturbed about the black area under the table, as from leonid's light return jpg it looks as though that area will never reflect any light back up to the viewer, which is disappointing. Then there's the shallow crown and possiblity of chipping (we are not using a bezel setting..). However, the diamond was beautiful, so I don't know how BAD it could really be. She called it something that started with an 's' but I don't recall the name. Basically she said it was bad.

Anyway--as I babble on, my concern is that she won't really be objective in appraising the diamond now. Because I've filled her in on the characteristics, it sounds as though she is very 'by the book', which I guess is good for an appraiser to be, but I don't want her to be biased against the diamond right off the bat because it's got a large table and a shallow crown. Am I worrying for nothing? Should we just have her appraise it and then look at the reports vs. stressing over what she says without having seen the diamond?

Needless to say there is alot of drama going on around this, and my poor boyfriend is just ready to be DONE with the diamond shopping because now he feels he made a mistake in his choice. I feel bad that the diamond he chose might not report well, so I am hoping it does, but I'm also kind of hoping it doesn't, as those hard results from the reports would be what it would take to look a little more for something a little more 'ideal' which would be my preference. We have agreed not to stress about it (well not verbally anyway!) and see what the appraiser says after receiving the diamond. The thought of returning it was not discussed when he made the purchase, but as this is a jeweler we have a connection with, I am sure he would be understanding if we wanted to put that amount of money towards something else if the diamond does not report well--esp if it appraises for under what we paid.

Anyhow, we shall see. But what are your thoughts on the appraiser's first impressions, and should we be this worried? Could it be that she is going to be biased or too strict, or is that what we should really want from an appraiser? Is she just going by the book or are the original stats that scary? I remember what CutNut said (aka avoid!!)..but took it with a slight grain of salt esp when reading other posts about shallow crowns being less undesirable as people originally thought, etc.

As always, thanks in advance for listening to my rambling! I think I create some of the longest posts here! :bigsmile:
 

student

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
167
I'm no expert, but my inclination would be to take the diamond to someone else. I don't think it's very professional for an appraiser to "flip out". But it sounds like a professional opinion would be helpful. I hope things turn out OK! Maybe it would be a good idea to contact your dealer now and tell him what the situation is so he will be ready for you in case you come in to exchange the diamond in a few days.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
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15,317
http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/04_previous.htm
This link will help your appraiser catch up. It discusses GIA research which most of us Cut Nut's think is pretty lame, but your appraiser probably worships GIA.

I have emailed a GIA light return chart (they called it a brilliance study at the time) to Leonid to post for me (please).

You have nothing to worry about - the stone will get appraised as being less valuable than a Tolkowsky prop. stone but you knew that anyway :)

You have made a well informed decision. You have accessed more rrecent knowledge than this appriaser is aware of. She might even like the stone - but she should still appraise it as the market would - because that is her job!
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
The best way to avoid this kind of situation is to have the diamond appraised before the purchase, not after. You make the sale contingent upon confirmation from an independent appraiser. This is a reasonable request, which most jewelers will go along with.

Rich, GG
Sarasota Gemological Laboratory
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Mara, don't be upset about appraiser' words. You did a lot of homework, compared the stone to others including ideal cut.

You liked the look and the spread. This is more important than what old school appraiser would say. You should care about the diamond look not table/crown numbers.

After all, if you should be able to exchange the diamond if you are not happy about it now.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Thanks SO much all! :appl:

I really appreciate the posts and diagrams, Leonid and CutNut. I will definitely pass on that URL and info to her, CN, via email and just let her know to take a peek at it before looking at my rock! :)

She definitely seemed old-school when she started talking about 34.5 crown angle as the epitomy of all goodliness, and I assume she is older if she's been doing this for 30+ years...so maybe she is not was up to date on all the research going on. However, she does have great certs, so hopefully she will not be biased. Thing is, we only want to have to pay for this appraisal once as its not cheap, so hopefully she will be independent in the true sense of the word. Plus she's the only one close to us recommended on Pricescope!

One question, on the tables posted above, for the WLR chart, what is a good range? I see that CN or someone marked where our diamond lays (at 29.9 crown angle and 41.1 pavilion w 62% table), and I see Leonid posted the legend, but is the yellow a good place to be?

Thanks again--and yes I'm pretty sure that if we end up being truly unhappy with the results we can take them back to the jeweler and say, based on these we want to look at more stones. From what we know of him, and the history he has with my best friend and her family, I am sure he would be amenable to doing that. But my boyfriend will try to slightly pave the way today when he speaks to him about me coming to pick up the rock. I'm actually glad we are getting it and taking it to be appraised ourselves as now I can look at it again!!! :bigsmile:
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,317
Mara on the GIA charts we have not marked where your stone is.
Loook at the 29.5 and 30.5 chaart and make a line from the table size and the pavilion angle - it is in the yellow.
if you look at the 34.5 chart you will see Tolkowsky marked as T. The result is very similar.
On Sergey's chart which I would rate far more highly than GIA's research - your result is even better :)
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Well all of this info does put my heart a little more at ease..we have our appt on Sunday, and I emailed the appraiser the links and info that helped us make our decisions (e.g. HCA link and the BIC/FIC/TIC page link) as well as the info on the GIA study that CutNut offered. She responded saying she was part of the GIA study so she is aware of it, and also mentioned there is more to the appearance than just 'brilliance'.

However I think she will be unbiased as she has very impressive credentials and I figure her machines won't lie! Plus, if she does come back with favorable results after her initial 'freak-out' over the specifics, that must mean the diamond will be REALLY good! Also my boyfriend let our jeweler know what we were doing and he was more than supportive, and said that if we weren't happy he would definitely work with us to find the right stone, but that he had NO DOUBTS this stone would surprise us with its performance. So now I am *really* intrigued!! I will keep you all posted on her results which will be given to me next week.

Thanks again for the great charts and info ! I appreciate the time. :praise:
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
We got the stone back from the appraiser last week, and her findings were very satisfactory. I didn't get a chance to view the reports yet, as she is also going to appraise the final ring for insurance, so we don't have final information yet, but we got the jist of what we wanted to know over the phone. The ring appraised for slightly more than we paid--which is good because a) we didn't get ripped off and b) we don't have to pay exhorbitant insurance rates on inflated estimated pricing; and she gave it a 3A for cut due to the non-ideal proportions, which I think she said is on a GIA derived scale of 4?

When we originally handed over the stone, the interesting thing is that she opened up the envelope and said 'The stone is beautiful, very brilliant, and very fiery!'. That is when I reminded her of the not-quite-desirable table size, etc. and she said 'Ohh that's right'. Then she was intrigued enough to view it through the Ideal Scope for a few minutes even though she wasn't working that day and we were just dropping the items off. We were very heartened to hear her initial opinion before she begain looking at stats or #'s. In the end, she said she was surprised that the stone performed so well, she was glad to see it was not a swindle stone or fish-eye, and that basically it's a great specimen.

This fits nicely into our plans, because we have fallen even more in love with the stone while it was in our hands for one day between picking it up from the jeweler and taking it to the appraiser. In that time, we looked at it in every light of every room, trying to determine where it shined more brightly. (Obsessed you say? Why YES!) Anyway, we feel we ended up with a stone that is very unusual in proportions, but looks gorgeous. This particular stone could have been 1 degree deeper or 1% smaller in table, and that would have changed things immensely, it would not shine as brightly have as much sparkle and brilliance. It are these unusual proportions on the dot that make it the gorgeous stone it is. It's ironic that the proportions and little numbers on the GIA certificate in the end did not point us to the right stone, but rather it was our eyes that showed us the 'light'. :bigsmile: Oh and of course the HCA which rated it a 1.7 BIC..and it sure is brilliant! BTW you can't even see the darkness around the table anymore, I am wondering if somehow I imagined it.

We are choosing the setting for the ring, then I am out of the equation until my better half decides to pop the question and I can actually wear this gorgeous thing on my lonely little finger.

Thanks again for the advice, charts, and help during the initial paranoia of purchasing the stone. In the end we are very pleased with the decision made!
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Mara, I was out of town for a few days and was wondering how the appraising worked out...

Glad to hear it is going ok so far. Thanks for keeping us up to date :)
 

2carrots

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
41
Mara,

I'm very happy to hear that your diamond worked out so well. I had a little bit of buyer's remorse a couple weeks back because I went with my eyes instead of all of the technical stuff I learned (I still don't know the sarin info. on my stone!), but I absolutely love my stone, too. Congratulations on proving the presumptuous wrong! :appl: Enjoy your stone (like I have to tell you that!). :loopy:
 
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