Anyone know anything about Linton/Gemline inc?

[ChrisA222]

Has anyone dealt with Linton/Gemlineinc? Have good luck or bad luck?

I'm having issues with a stone I bought from them, and I have not heard back from them at all about my concerns/complaints. There isn't a phone number to call...I have an email address for them and an email address for someone that works there, but neither emails are being returned.

I bought a Sapphire which was described as well-cut, but the center of the stone is dead. I am not sure if it is windowing, or if it is caused by the silky lines/inclusions that I can see in the stone if I look closely. I've sent pictures to a few people, they told me that they are fairly sure it is a cutting fault, but I am not sure. Also, there is a 'gash' in the side of the stone, on the pavillion. I don't really care about this, as it won't be seen, but why wasn't this disclosed? why aren't my emails about these issues being addressed? I asked them how long my return policy is...as I need to know if I have enough time to forward the gem to a cutter to see if it can be fixed or not. But again, no response from them. What gives?

I paid a great price for the gem, its 2.18cts, an awesome royal blue but not dark/blackish, I don't see eye visible inclusions aside from those lines that you really have to eyeball to see. Its 8x6x5 so it is super deep (I had planned on a precision-recut from the get-go, so there is enough depth). So I certainly don't mind the recut since that was always part of the plan. The gem was on clearance for $218...I haven't seen this color for twice that price in a stone this size. But I need to know if I have enough time to get it to the cutter. If the cutter says no, cant be fixed, Id have him send it to Linton for me.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions Im all ears. I find it inexcusable that they let the gem go with the gash in the side without telling me, and then after I've sent my concerns to them on Thursday, here it is Saturday and I haven't heard from them. As of now, I don't even know if I can return the stone at all, since I've no instructions or address on where to send it.

 

[mastercutgems]

Hi Chrissa222

I know Michael of Litnon personally for many years now and I know he is very reputable; but for the last 2 weeks he has had issues with emails through his website as I too have had a hard time getting through to him as well through that method.

I also know he is working on his cabin in the woods so he may just be out of town for a few days to make repairs on it for the summer.

Keep emailing him and if you cannot get him; private email me for his phone number as I am sure he will want to take care of this personally. Just make sure you tell me your PS name so I will know

Most respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified Supreme Master Gem Cutter # 96cge42

 

[ChrisA222]

Thank you. I will try. I was emailed by this person named Pamela, but so far I have not heard a thing back from her, either. I basically just need to know if I have a couple of weeks, maxiumum, to return the stone as I need to know if its fixable or not. I am ready to mail the stone out Monday, but I feel funny mailing it out if I find out that I only have 7 days with the gem before I am stuck with it. I appreciate the info!

 

[marymm]

FYI: the return policy stated on the Litnon website is 10 days...

"Please let us know your preference for payment. We will combine items. Satisfaction guaranteed. No questions return policy with a 10 day inspection period. Gem Line Inc. accepts Paypal, credit card, money orders and checks (item shipped after bank clearance)."

http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=payment - its the 2-line paragraph above the mailing address posted on bottom of page

 

[K9]

As Dana said, Michael is a good guy and a reputable seller. I'm sure there is a good explanation for the lack of response and they are not ignoring you on purpose.

Hope you hear from him soon.

 

[beaujolais]

Agreed, Michael is a really good & credible guy. He does have problems with e-mails getting through. I dealt with that also, but it all worked out. If you are sending from aol, can you try another method, like gmail, perhaps? Sometimes I put "NOT SPAM in the subject line, also. I think he has an e-mail address and Gemline has also, so send to both.

As for your stone, the issues might be part of the really good price? Can you put up pictures? I've bought some lesser stones from him that might have had some issues but were still a good value and pretty nice.

Did Gemline, in the past few years, take on another owner/partner or something? Their stock is a little different than it used to be.

 

[minousbijoux]

I corresponded with him a few weeks ago, and on May 21st he wrote me the following:

"It is our slow time of year so I have been doing some consulting work for a construction company out of state. I will be in the office now until next Monday (the 28th) and then away again for a couple of weeks."

Chillax - he's a good and honorable guy and you'll get in touch one way or another

 

[rosetta]

I bought a ruby from them and had no issues at all. I'm sure he'll get in touch soon.

 

[ChrisA222]

Thanks for re-assurance. I was a little upset about the gash in the stone not being disclosed, and then when I get responses from Pamela right away about payment and such, but then it takes a while to get any responses about problems...well...it is a little off-putting. For the record, I haven't dealt with anyone named Michael.

Ill attach some pics. The first two are vendor pics, then my pic of the "good" part of the stone, and then the pics I took showing the center of the stone which I am hoping to fix.

With 10 days it is going to be cutting it really close. Thanks for posting that, I didn't see it there on the website, oops!

 

[chrono]

Any views of this 'gash"? It might make this stone a poor candidate for a recut depending on its size and location.

 

[cm366]

Hey Chris,

For what it's worth, I had similar concerns a few months back over a purchase that got lost in the mail. Tried several times to contact Litnon via their website and Pamela's address to no avail, but when they eventually got back to me (2-3 weeks later, after 4 separate emails) they were very good about the whole deal. Definitely good stones, seem like great people to work with, but I wouldn't buy from them again unless like Dana I could contact them some other way. Maybe they work primarily with trade customers, or through shows?

 

[beaujolais]

I rather like it, esp at that price ! The center of the stone is never as lively as the edges.

Photo of "gash" please.

 

[ChrisA222]

Im sorry guys, the stone is already packed up and ready to get shipped to Jerry at Gemmart services to see if he can fix the stone. I asked him if he would forward the stone back to Linton if he didn't think a pav-recut would do the trick. So, hopefully it just needs a little attention. The color is great, exactly what I was looking for, as is the size (Face up size), and at 2.18cts I dont mind losing half a ct as long as the stone faces up the same size.

The "gash' for lack of a better word, was on the side of the pavillion....so I wouldnt even notice it when set. I didnt notice it until I was examining the whole thing with a loupe..although its clearly visible without one. It doesnt look like a fracture, it looks like a chunk is just missing. Odd and I dont know how else to describe it. Like I said, why they wouldnt have disclosed this is a little off putting, but whatever, I dont expect a perfect stone for the price paid. I intended on a recut from the get go, I am just anti-step cut ovals, so I have no issue whatsoever with having the pav redone. No harm no foul. But if this is a zoning/clarity issue and not a cutting issue, then it has to go back, as I cannot deal with the blurry center.

It isn't that the center isn't as brilliant as the edges...that, I am familliar with...it is like the center of the stone is out of focus, like you wipe your eye after looking at it because it just looks odd. I see some inclusions that look like lines but I do not know if that is the problem, or if its just the cutting. We shall see! Thanks for opinions...

 

[cellentani]

Im sorry guys, the stone is already packed up and ready to get shipped to Jerry at Gemmart services to see if he can fix the stone. I asked him if he would forward the stone back to Linton if he didn't think a pav-recut would do the trick. So, hopefully it just needs a little attention. The color is great, exactly what I was looking for, as is the size (Face up size), and at 2.18cts I dont mind losing half a ct as long as the stone faces up the same size.

The "gash' for lack of a better word, was on the side of the pavillion....so I wouldnt even notice it when set. I didnt notice it until I was examining the whole thing with a loupe..although its clearly visible without one. It doesnt look like a fracture, it looks like a chunk is just missing. Odd and I dont know how else to describe it. Like I said, why they wouldnt have disclosed this is a little off putting, but whatever, I dont expect a perfect stone for the price paid. I intended on a recut from the get go, I am just anti-step cut ovals, so I have no issue whatsoever with having the pav redone. No harm no foul. But if this is a zoning/clarity issue and not a cutting issue, then it has to go back, as I cannot deal with the blurry center.

It isn't that the center isn't as brilliant as the edges...that, I am familliar with...it is like the center of the stone is out of focus, like you wipe your eye after looking at it because it just looks odd. I see some inclusions that look like lines but I do not know if that is the problem, or if its just the cutting. We shall see! Thanks for opinions...

Sounds like you're experiencing some double refraction? I'd be interested in hearing what Jerry has to say, and if it can be lessened. I'm under the impression that zircons, which are notorious for double refraction (and I don't mean that negatively as some people find that feature appealing) need to be cut in a certain orientation to avoid that. Please keep us posted!

 

[chrono]

If a chunk is missing, it could well be a natural. I don't know how it will affect the recut but we'll wait to hear what Jerry has to say about it. Do you think the out of focus center is from evenly distributed but incredibly fine silk (cannot be seen when louped but only through a microscope), creating that slightly dirty, hazy appearance? If so, then it is not a cut issue but is from the material itself which cannot be improved.

 

[ChrisA222]

I know all about Zircons and double-refracting...they can look blurry. This is similar in effect but its not off the facetting, so I dont think its the DR. I think its the windowing or inclusions.

Chrono, I can see the lines with my naked eye if I am eyeballing it right up close. It is hard for me to describe. I think they went across the table of the stone but I am not 100 percent sure. Darn I wish we had this conversation yesterday when the stone was readily accessable. lol.

We will have to wait for Jerry. The thing is, if you look at my 'good' picture where my fingers are close together, it isn't that noticable...thats why im thinking window. Its the pic where my fingers are apart, esposing light to the back of the stone and the window. I am hoping that, even if there are inclusions creating part of the problem, the effect will be lessoned with closing up the window to a point where the slight blurry center will not bother me. If it does, I am sure I would have no problem selling the stone for whatever I paid for it even with the cutting fee as it still would have that great color.

I had heard the term natural before but I cant say I know exactly what it means. It could be. If theres a fracture ther is usually a crack along the lines where a chunk of the stone would have come out, no? And I didnt see any other lines. It was just like a hole...or, a 'gash' LOL

Im into bezel sets so if I decide to do a ring for myself, one of my ideas, then a bezel might help too.

Will keep you posted when I hear from Jerry. He seems very cool to deal with so far. I always deal with Dan Stair as many of you may already know (I am a big advocate of his cutting!) but Dan is on hiatus for a few weeks and I dont have that kind of time to return this gem if its unfixable. Gotta love the timing of it all..and the fact that, I still have not heard back from Linton.

 

[distracts]

I bought from them a couple of months ago and had to return my stone - had absolutely no issues with the return and was issued a prompt refund.

 

[minousbijoux]

Chris: a "natural" is a place where the rough ended and in order to maximize the size, the cutter chose to leave the little indent or natural flaw/cavity there. As you can imagine, by cutting it out, the cutter would end up with a proportionately smaller stone. So in the infinite wisdom of the cutter you sometimes find stones with naturals on the pavilion or girdle where it won't have any impact on the face up stone. Interestingly, Kenny can tell you all about naturals in colored diamonds. Apparently naturally occurring green diamonds are so incredibly rare that leaving a natural, or part of the rind of the diamond present allows for labs to recognize its untreated state. (I think I got that right - CD lovers, jump in if I got it wrong ).

 

[ChrisA222]

I just wanted to update everyone on this stone and Linton.

Linton did get back to me about my concerns about the stone. It was indeed a natural, as Minous stated, not a 'gash' as I had reported. He did disclose to me that the stone had some flaws/inclusions, and that was one of them. So they were up front about that.

The center of the stone, which was very blurry looking...I got to the bottom of that, too. Gemline did tell me that there was a "discoid" inclusion in the center of the stone. That is what I was seeing, and that was what was causing the weird optics of the stone. I sent the stone to Jerry Newman for assessment, to see if a recut could fix the stone enough for me to keep it. Unfortunately, it wasn't a window creating the problems, it was that inclusion, dead-center of the stone. Jerry said he would have to recut a new crown/table down under where this inclusion is, which would reduce the stone to 50% ish of its former size (2.18cts/8x6) and it would end up around a 5x4 sized stone.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out that the next step is to send the stone back. Its a great colored stone, as you can see in the picture that kind of covers up the inclusion (fingers closed) so there is a chance when set, it wouldn't be distracting. But it would distract ME just knowing that its there, so back it goes. I will add that Linton was very good and extended my return period to 30 days to give me the time to get the stone checked out.

End of story....there will soon be a very inexpensive, greatly colored Sapphire on Lintons website soon...

 

[chrono]

Thank you for the update. This is why sometimes gemstones have what we often call cut issues or visual / performance issues related to cut. To work around the issues or to remove them completely will net such a small stone that it isn't worth cutting it out.

 

[aljdewey]

I see that I"m not the only one who's felt incredibly frustrated with Litnon over the past few months. I nearly started a thread like this a few months ago myself.

I'd bought from Michael a couple of times last fall with totally no problems; really enjoyed my transactions with him.

In March, I purchased a stone, and when I went to pay him via Paypal, the invoice showed as canceled. Two weeks after that, I tried to purchase another stone through his online order form - no reply. Filled it out again - still no reply. I sent three separate emails to him asking him to get in touch with me; no replies at all.

While he wasn't responding to any of my emails, he was in the midst of a transaction with a friend of mine, so I asked her to mention that I was having trouble getting through to him. He never answered her on that email either.

As the OP mentioned, there's no other way to contact him. No phone provided, and it seems to me that if he knows he's having trouble receiving emails, he should at least provide another way for folks to reach him.

I get nervous when previously reliable vendors begin flaking out like this and makes me concerned about solvency. I *truly* hope that's not the case, but right now, even if I could get through to Litnon, I'm not sure I'd feel entirely comfortable doing so now.

 

[chrono]

Threadjack Alert

Alj and to others who've experience a not so satisfied transaction with ANY vendor,
PLEASE speak up. Nobody will know about this until you share your experience with others; your writing about your experience can sometimes help others avoid the same thing. It can be customer service related such as the vendor not responding in a timely manner or the vendor being unnecessarily rude, or gemstone related such as the stone not looking anything like the advertised picture(s). PS should be a fair and safe place to post both the good and bad. If you had an experience bad enough to warrant a vendor being booted off the Recommended List, then by all golly gee, please share your point of view.

 

[mastercutgems]

Just to clarify something that I see that is not correct...

Litnon or Michael from gemline's phone number is on his website under payment options and shipping information.

I know us vendors really do try to make this as easy and enjoyable buying experience as we can; but we too have a life like the rest of you. Children that get sick, home chores for the wife, cutting, farm work, sickness, etc. so many times it is not that we are trying to avoid anyone; it is just we have other irons in the fire and can only do so much in the course of a day or few days for that matter.

Like I said I am not trying to place fault or give excuses for any vendor; but I do see things sometimes get out of hand with a vendor/client and i do know there has been times I did not get any respect and did all a human could do.

So not to upset anyone or cast blame ; but when buying from a vendor; look at their entire site; rules, return polices, refunds, shipping times, contact info., etc. and i know for one i try to keep everyone updated on the front page; but hey I like to talk so there you have it; plus I was a corporation owner for 20 years with a slew of employees so I always had to dot the i's and cross the t's..

But I know in this world of scamming, rip-offs etc. one is easy to think there is something wrong when a email is not answered in a 24 hr. period; but many times it is a email server, hosting issue, spam filter, family issue, or a list of a dozen other things that may keep one of us vendors from being Johnny on the spot to answer.

It is not that we do not care; it is just timing; just like the things that happen to you on any given day; we are all the same... human...



Most respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified Supreme Master Gem Cutter #96cge42

 

[Arkteia]

Dana, I have bought from you, I know you would be flexible if I, for example, decided to return a stone to you outside the inspection time window. But some vendors give us only two days for inspection. (Most give seven). I once had a situation when a very expensive vendor sold me a stone and departed to a show. I could not reach him because he did not answer my emails. I did not like the stone but I could not return it withing the time window, either. (I should have raised this issue on the PS, then and there, but the vendor had such a clout that I was simply scared).

But that was a while ago. Today, I totally agree with Chrono, we should be more open here, because there are very few other places where customers can come and express their opinions, get some advices and help.

I do not draw any personal conclusions from this post, but only because I consider this sapphire a good buy for its price. But when I am dealing, say, with a vendor from overseas, and it is my first experience with this vendor, and when I return a 1.2 K-stone the vendor does not return either my emails phone calls, I would feel justified to raise this issue on the PS. Because cc or Paypal have a certain window of opportunity. (I am alluding to my personal experience and I previously made a post regarding this episode).

Everyone has smartphones and plans, and I-net accesses. I assume that vendors with huge inventory check their emails on a pretty regular basis, just to see if a new stone has been sold. If there is a payment issue, they can always send an email, explain the situation and discuss payment plan. It puts a customer at ease, and such an email, in a way, is a legally binding document. I had such experience with a few vendors, everything vent smoothly, and no one ever complained or discussed them on the PS.

 

[aljdewey]

Chrono, I've never had a problem speaking my mind, and still don't, but I do it when the spirit moves me. That, for me, was now.

I do think it's humorous, though, that you'll call in this thread for people to speak up, and yet in another current thread (about a poster who's worried she won't get her refund), everyone's counselling to restrain from divulging the vendor ID. There's a ton of "oh, I know that vendor and I'm blah blah", but no one's saying who it is and that doesn't help anyone else in that same situ either.

Dana, with due respect, I used to be on the vendor side, so you'll be hard-pressed to find someone more understanding and generally laid-back with the vendors than I am. OF COURSE vendors should have a life, and certainly they can have a bad day or even a run of a few bad days, and I'm totally accepting of that. But for those who run a business, it's unacceptable to be unreachable and unresponsive to multiple emails over the course of a MONTH, especially when I know he's responded to a friend whose inquiry went in well after mine did.

I've found that people are generally really willing to be flexible as long as they KNOW something's up. I've worked with vendors who've said "hey, got your email but I"m heading to Tucson and can't really begin on this for 3 weeks." No problem; I know what to expect and I've been answered, and I'm happy to push it out.

 

[chrono]

Aljdewey,
I applaude Zebra for speaking out. My intent, as always, is fairness. I think the purpose of it went well; nobody attacked her or the vendor and if anything else, supported Zebra and helped her understand the possible reasons why it happened, including what steps she might want to take next. I am not out to string any vendor by their toes. The reason many of us suspect who the vendor is, is because we followed her purchase of the ruby quite closely. It is out of respect for those involved (and those who have no clue who the vendor is), that he/she will remain nameless. It would be very unfair to out the vendor before he/she has the chance to get back to Zebra to resolve this. What happens next should remain offline and private, involving only the two of them. When it is resolved, she may speak up, if she so chooses, to give her opinion on the overall experience. Right now, what is important is how to move her case forward in a fashion that will satisfy both parties. If things go well, the trust in the vendor is confirmed and his reputation will be improved. If things do not go well, then everyone will know what happened. It works both ways.

With respect to that vendor, others who returned stones to him/her because they looked nothing like the advertised pictures should have spoken up earlier. That is the purpose of the vendor/customer comparison thread. It becomes useless if everyone only had nice things to say. Without a full picture or knowing both the good and the bad, it is too easy to come to a faulty conclusion.

Dana,
I am a working person as well. If I do not respond to my customers in a timely fashion, you can bet my boss or HR will be beating down my door with complaints. Should I have a rough day, I'd better well keep my mouth shut and maintain a professional image. At the very least, a bit of explaination would be the courteous thing to do, requesting a little more time if necessary.

 

[mastercutgems]

HI Ladies

Don't shoot the messenger...

I was just saying there was a phone number on the site as a means of communications as I did not know the full details of the situation....and it really is not my business... And if anyone made a false statement about any of you I will be one of the first to respond on that side as well; as in my book right is right and wrong is wrong; it makes no difference whether it be a vendor or consumer they both have the same rights.

All I am saying is that sometimes there is a time lag on returning emails. I think any of you that have dealt with me; know I truly try to be responsive as possible.

Chrono; You and I have not always agreed on terms of sale; but I never ignored your point of view or emails; I did and will always respond as curtiously as possible...As I do respect you as a person

Also working for another or corporation is a little different as you have A job ...when you work for yourself you have many jobs; me as an example; I bought the gems as a hobby 20+ years ago when I had A job; now I am the buyer of rough, cutter, bad photographer, lister, editor, seller, invoice maker, box packer, email responder, website uplaoder, mail carrier, refunder, plus all the bill paying, facet rough grader to send to foreign cutters; and that does not come around to childcare provider for a 6 yr. old and 16 yr. old, 55+ acre farm owner with 3+ acres of vege. crops, shop. lab., repair man, and mow 6 acres of my and my parents yard a week... Yes I want some cheese with my whine

So that is why sometimes I am at a loss for time; but I still try...

I am not here to defend all vendors; as some I would not defend as they are not doing as I would consider professional; but again I have had clients that were not kind at all either.

But i totally understand anyone with a complaint wanting to air it and also warn others of a habitual bad seller as that too is why forums like this are made... Not a problem... You all know I have no issue with voicing my opinion.. LOL ...So I think it is a right anyone should exercise...

I just have seen the pendelium swing both ways here and all I ask is to be fair and understanding on both parties sides.. Thats all...

Nothing meant to harm, hurt, or attack personally in any way...

Sorry for any mispelled words as this thing has no spell checker

Most respectfully;

Dana Reynolds
ASG Certified Supreme Master gem Cutter # 96cge42

 

[VapidLapid]

Chrono, I've never had a problem speaking my mind, and still don't, but I do it when the spirit moves me. That, for me, was now.

I do think it's humorous, though, that you'll call in this thread for people to speak up, and yet in another current thread (about a poster who's worried she won't get her refund), everyone's counselling to restrain from divulging the vendor ID. There's a ton of "oh, I know that vendor and I'm blah blah", but no one's saying who it is and that doesn't help anyone else in that same situ either.

Dana, with due respect, I used to be on the vendor side, so you'll be hard-pressed to find someone more understanding and generally laid-back with the vendors than I am. OF COURSE vendors should have a life, and certainly they can have a bad day or even a run of a few bad days, and I'm totally accepting of that. But for those who run a business, it's unacceptable to be unreachable and unresponsive to multiple emails over the course of a MONTH, especially when I know he's responded to a friend whose inquiry went in well after mine did.

I've found that people are generally really willing to be flexible as long as they KNOW something's up. I've worked with vendors who've said "hey, got your email but I"m heading to Tucson and can't really begin on this for 3 weeks." No problem; I know what to expect and I've been answered, and I'm happy to push it out.

I think that for the time being it is best for that OP not to name the vendor. The possibility of him acting appropriately and possibly saving his reputation with the majority of today's readers and the readers of the thread as it will be archived, is the only leverage she has if he fails to do the right thing. People should speak up, but if it could jeopardize a pending refund, they should wait for resolution, and include the resolution experience in their post.

 

[chrono]

Dana,
Just to clarify, my post was written to a general "you" not to a specific person or vendor in mind. I've let bygones be bygones in our case and did not mean to imply or reference it in any fashion whatsoever. It is history or water under the bridge, as they say. Of course, I also understood that you were only giving your opinion, which you have every right too. With the written word, meaning can be misconstrued because there is no emotional depth or tone behind it.

I was also a businessperson on the side for several years. Yes, being one's own boss is not any easier. Still, prompt communication is crucial, as is professional behaviour. Do my customers really care that I have a full time day job on top of this business that I run? Is it any of their business that my child is sick today? No, and why should they? Their priority is the service or goods that I provide. If I cannot meet their needs, they will go elsewhere. They don't want to hear complaints, they want to see results. Sorry if I sound harsh but that is the reality of the competitive business market.

Yes, it goes both ways. Just as they are both good and poor vendors, there are also good and difficult customers. We can't solve everything or everyone's problems but it's good to at least attempt to find out what happened and why, and also see if it can be avoided or improved in the future. This is not a witch hunt.

 

[ChrisA222]

Dana, Im sorry but why should I have to call the phone number (Which I honestly didnt see) when I emailed three times over a 48 hour period, to two different addresses? you mean to tell me the co-worker (who emailed me from her personal email) couldn't write back a simple one sentence email like "your return window is 7 days, we will get back to you about extending it, the owner is not available" or something to that effect? Or, the owner, who did finally contact me and tell me he was out of the office, could not have checked the email once during that 48 hour period? I am sorry but I am in business too..and I'd never EVER let a customer wait 48 hours over something like this.

I had dropped this issue until your post really got me angry. I guess yes, I should have realized that three emails to two different addresses, both of which responded quickly when I was asking about BUYING and PAYING for something, obviously I should have known that wasn't enough, and I should have looked for a phone number, to call them too.

Come on Dana, really? This has completely soured me from this vendor...its a shame, I saw some nice stones. But that kind of lack of response is piss-poor customer service. Your post, give me a break. Having to come up with defenses for the owner such as "we have kids, we have lives" well you know what? Then don't be in business if you and your employees cannot service customers in a timely basis. I would get fired from my job if I left a customer hanging like this for 2-3 days. LEt alone a MONTH like this other fellow. It is unprofessional at a minimum and POOR overall.