Any DINK (Double income no kids) couples out there?

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 8/1/2005 12:51:39 PM
Author: fire&ice
I''m 45. Hubby is 46. I don''t want him to have the ''procedure'' because what if I were to die young? He may marry someone younger who may want to have children.

F&I...we''re going through the same debate. He has "flipped flopped" in the past and I wanted to go through the procedure "just in case" as well. I''ve known "forever" that kids wouldn''t be part of my life. We went to an OB/GYN to discuss my procedure and then an UROLOGIST to look at his. My DH is adamant for me NOT to get the procedure...he wants to go through with it as his is "outpatient" and ours (female) is major surgery...he won''t budge...

 

[nutty]

I''m getting the surgery done next Thursday. I''ll let ya know how it goes.

I wouldn''t let my DH do it, so I am going under the knife. It''s an outpatient surgery, so hopefully it''ll be quick and sweet.

 

[Jennifer5973]

I don't care if a kid stares at me or sits there playing with its toy or eating or making a level of noise comparable to what the adults are doing.... FINE. But we live in a society where it seems, at least to me, that the kid has all the rights....No, I am sorry-a kid should removed if he/she is causing a disturbance...if an adult was carrying on, I'd complain just the same. No kid's right to be loud and disruptive in an adult-oriented place (think upscale restuarant at 8+ PM, a move that is R-rated and showing at night, etc.) supercedes MY right to enjoy a normal, civilized experience. Why should your noisy brat ruin it for me?

I think the issue is that many parents think that their lives and their kids are the MOST important thing in the world and it's all about them and what THEY want and need...Newsflash-it's not. Kids have to share the planet with the rest of us and we were here first.

When we were young, like Kaleigh says, if we acted up, we were warned once, maybe twice, then yanked out of there. Was that the most convenient thing for my parents? Probably not but it was the CONSIDERATE thing to do.

People are just gross. No one has any class anymore--I swear that's the root problem with our society.

ETA: I see your post re: wanting decision info/feelings, not debate on kids' behavior...sorry to digress but this topic always leads to very sensitive & heated issues. Back on topic, I have not regretted my decision and am very happy without children. It has been more baout not feeling like I wanted to mother a child versus doing and buying what I want... I also do like owning my own time and still ahve so many things as a person I still want to do...there just doesn't seem to be room for a child and there may never be.

 

[kbaker]

That is the problem..that parents today for the most part, take no responsibility for their kids. In southern california, all I see (more often than not) are Starbucks drinking, velour swetsuit wearing, high maintaince moms that seem to be unaware that have to actually parent their child now. Nope, a kid isn''t just a free pass to staying home and going to the gym.

Another example...I was dining at a local outdoor bistro and a few SAHM''s were "lunching" (insert: My mom never "lunched" while we were young...you know we went to the library, made crafts, played with friends etc.). Anways, so while the moms were engrossed in conversation, their children were knocking down chairs, running all over, screaming and I was like *seriously* They belong to you right...."

Plus, working in the schools has been a real eye opener. Parents always want the school to "fix" whatever is wrong with their darling son or daughter. It just adds up after a while and gets to be a bit much. Hopefully our society will change and realize that we are raising ADULTS, not CHILDREN.

I hope I didn''t offend anyone.

 

[PaulaW]

Man... I feel like the skies opened up and there''s a big ray of sunshine coming through! We are totally DINKs and I can''t see that changing any time soon. We just got through the majority of our group getting married and now a couple are pregnant and I just can not imagine that for us, I don''t know that I ever will. I feel like I''m too selfish and and don''t want to reliquish my freedom at ALL.
Mara, I agree with everything you said 1000% like Jen. Your restaurant experience would have had me climbing the walls. My parent''s wouldn''t have tolerated that for a second. I was never left at home, always brought out to dinner even for business, and while I don''t think it was necessarily right of my parents to do that, I would not have been there had I misbehaved. I did not speak until I was spoken to and my parents firmly believed in children being seen and not heard. I was allowed to bring one small thing that could fit in my pocket to entertain myself and that was it. Parents these days have to drive a Suburban to accommodate their one child''s many toys and I find that completely ridiculous.
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent - I don''t mean to offend anyone either, I just can''t deal with the way a lot of kids are today with their lack of respect and proper upbringing. I think Mara is right, they need to be taught manners and have a little class, it''s only fair to the rest of us that have to deal with them!

 

[Mara]

It's funny because this does end up being somewhat of a strong topic...I don't get offended easily so hopefully my two cents doesn't offend others.

It's kind of nice to talk with like-minded people!

Over the weekend I had dinner with a bunch of girlfriends, one who has 3 kids. She's hilarious, she even says herself, god I can't believe I have 3 kids! She never imagined. She adores her kids but even she says sometimes they irritate her.

And she even says that sometimes SHE gets immune to the noise or drama her kids make because she's too tired to deal with it. That is a primo example of when I say don't bring the kids out then. If you aren't going to be 'responsible' for your child or children and how they can act in public, leave them at home even if that means your fun is not going to be happening. She left her kids at home with hubby which was the right thing to do.

Being apathetic about child-rearing just astounds me. That would be like me taking my dog to the park and then watching it poo on the grass and bark incessantly at someone and me just kind of sit there and watch and do nothing. Totally inappropriate right?!

That said, some of my friends do have amazing children who are really well-behaved, kudos to them and others who raise their kids right. I don't mind spending an hour or two with them because I don't have my personal space assaulted by their kids pulling my hair or screaming at the table. Their kids are intelligent and fun to be around. It's times like that when I think, wow maybe we could have a kid or two...and then we go almost anywhere else and see the hordes of unruly kids (which is way worse than it ever was when I was growing up!) and then I think well maybe not.

It's one thing to raise your kid right but it seems like these days parenting has gone out the window from when I was raised...I think some of that has to do with the whole 'child abuse' thing and how sensitive people are about things now. I got spanked almost DAILY when I was a kid...I was really hyper. But now that is sooo frowned upon, and 'talking' to the kids is more appropriate. Please! I needed those spankings, nothing was damaged permanently. Also kids are more hyper now because they have less outsdie activities to do and everyone is instead just watching TV or playing video games. It's a whole different world for kids nowadays and honestly many times I don't like what I see...and would possibly not want to subject a potential child to the future world.

 

[Kaleigh]

I am absolutely horrified at how loose parents are with their kids behavior. I was and am very stict with my kids and having bratty or undisciplined kids was never an option for me. My SIL has 2 really bratty kids and I look at her like get them in line, NOW!!! But she laughs and think they are soooo cute, well they will grow up to be even more monstrous than they are now at age 5&7.

 

[momothree]

I have been reading the thread with great interest and I give a hearty round of applause to those of you have decided that you don’t care to have children. I respect your decision and wish that such restraint were more commonplace. I agree with all of you that young children do not belong at fancy restaurants, evening and/or adult-oriented movies, clubs, and so forth. If I want to eat somewhere that doesn’t have chicken fingers on the menu, I leave the kids at home. If I can’t get a sitter when I want to see a certain movie, I wait until its on DVD. Frankly, not only will your night suck if I bring along the kids – mine will, too.

That being said, I do take some issue with the repeated use of terms like “noisy brats.” The main problem here (as some of you have noted) is with the parents, not the kids. Kids play. Kids are noisy. Kids are dirty. Kids can’t sit still in restaurants for two hours. Why denigrate kids for acting like kids? It’s the parents that have behaved inappropriately! Unfortunately, there is a loss of civility in American society today that is both sad and terribly maddening. Too many adults today simply have no respect for social norms, the “right” thing to do, and/or their fellow human beings. The people sending text messages during movies, causing traffic jams or accidents while chatting on their cell phone, cutting in lines, bullying waiters, yelling at the popcorn vendor at the movie (that’s a long and obnoxious story that has nothing to do with this...) – THEY are the problem – and they are also the ones that also let their kids run around like maniacs in public places. As my DH’s late great grandmother used to say “It’s not my world.”
Sorry if I got too off-topic here...

 

[confusedtoo]

maybe call it the PRIM society (people really interested in manners) since some of you who feel the same have kids...

i''m so glad to see that respectful well-mannered people still exist. not that i think i''m the only one (or even that i''m always completely well-mannered) but i do wish more people remembered that other people exist and the world is not just here to serve them.

 

[jellybean]

I have 2 toddlers and plan on having at least one more. I do have to agree that parents nowadays don''t discipline their kids enough. My two kiddies are very active, and yes, we do take them out to restaurants (usually Chili''s or another kid-friendly place) however, if they totally act up, we give them 2 warnings, then leave if they keep it up. We have gotten our order to go a few times, but lately it is getting better.

My DH and I were never physically punished or hit as kids, and I don''t agree that''s the answer to discipline, but I agree that more parents need to take responsibility for their kids. Yes, it does happen where my daughter will have a complete temper tantrum in the middle of the grocery store for no apparent reason. I usually cut the trip short and leave then take away one of her "priviledges" when we get home. But for parents to just let their kids run around and turn a completely deaf ear to it, well, that irks me as well.

Most of my friends are DINKs and plan on staying that way. Will they have regrets? Maybe, maybe not - that''s their lives. Do I regret having kids? Absolutely not -- in fact, it''s one of the greatest things we''ve done. That''s why we want more. For all the work it is, for me and my DH, we wish we had done it sooner.

I wasn''t going to respond to this thread, but I did b/c I just wanted to say I agree with the kids-acting-up-in-public places issue. Kids are unpredictible, that''s for sure. However, if I acted the way I have seen some kids act, my a$$ would have been grounded for a very long time!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/1/2005 4:45:25 PM
Author: wss
maybe call it the PRIM society (people really interested in manners) since some of you who feel the same have kids...

i''m so glad to see that respectful well-mannered people still exist. not that i think i''m the only one (or even that i''m always completely well-mannered) but i do wish more people remembered that other people exist and the world is not just here to serve them.

The world isn''t about primary serving DINKs either.

 

[confusedtoo]

Date: 8/1/2005 4:48:02 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen

Date: 8/1/2005 4:45:25 PM

The world isn''t about primary serving DINKs either.

err - where did i say that it is?? i''m talking about all people who behave this way - no matter who they are or how many kids they have.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/1/2005 3:12:19 PM
Author: Jennifer5973
No kid''s right to be loud and disruptive in an adult-oriented place (think upscale restuarant at 8+ PM, a move that is R-rated and showing at night, etc.) supercedes MY right to enjoy a normal, civilized experience. Why should your noisy brat ruin it for me?

I think the issue is that many parents think that their lives and their kids are the MOST important thing in the world and it''s all about them and what THEY want and need...Newsflash-it''s not. Kids have to share the planet with the rest of us and we were here first.

What is the deal here. . .I totally respect a person choosing not to become kids here, but this is child/parenting mentality on this board is offensive. Yes, some kids do act up, but to turn this post into a child-hating all kids are brats generalization is completely narrow minded.

I''m perplexed as to why a discussion about enjoying life as a DINK is more about bashing kids than about the joys of living life to it''s fullest.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/1/2005 4:50:52 PM
Author: wss

Date: 8/1/2005 4:48:02 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen

Date: 8/1/2005 4:45:25 PM

The world isn''t about primary serving DINKs either.

err - where did i say that it is?? i''m talking about all people who behave this way - no matter who they are or how many kids they have.

I''m not attacking you, just commenting generally. This seems to be the attitude amoung DINKS. Choosing not to have kids doesn''t mean that life should suddenly come to a standstill for those who DO choose to have kids, nor should DINKS be waiting on hand and foot like royality because they feel additionally priviileged.

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 8/1/2005 4:57:05 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen

Date: 8/1/2005 3:12:19 PM
Author: Jennifer5973
No kid's right to be loud and disruptive in an adult-oriented place (think upscale restuarant at 8+ PM, a move that is R-rated and showing at night, etc.) supercedes MY right to enjoy a normal, civilized experience. Why should your noisy brat ruin it for me?

I think the issue is that many parents think that their lives and their kids are the MOST important thing in the world and it's all about them and what THEY want and need...Newsflash-it's not. Kids have to share the planet with the rest of us and we were here first.

What is the deal here. . .I totally respect a person choosing not to become kids here, but this is child/parenting mentality on this board is offensive. Yes, some kids do act up, but to turn this post into a child-hating all kids are brats generalization is completely narrow minded.

I'm perplexed as to why a discussion about enjoying life as a DINK is more about bashing kids than about the joys of living life to it's fullest.

Michelle, I already noted that the the thread digressed after seing the original poster's request to stay more on topic and apoloigized for my part in the digression.

I do not, however, apologize for how I feel. Perhaps my opinions were stated with language that you or others are finding offensive,--that was not my intent and I didn't mean to offend, as I like to be respectful of the forum.

However, I have a right to my opinions and to express them; With the excpetion of the term "brats" which was used in a rhetorical statement (but perhaps was not understood as such), I used no foul language or personal attacks. I hope this is not another case of the infamous forum double standard--okay for some to express strongly worded opinions but not others...I thought we had moved past this on Pscope.

And in the end, I do believe that children should be well-behaved in public places where being there is a CHOICE. I know moms can't always help it if a kid acts up in the post-office or supermarket and babysitters aren't a dime a dozen... I am talking about elective social settings where I am paying money for a certain experience..sorry, but not every crevice of the planet needs to be kid-friendly.

ETA: I also remarked that if an adult was being disruptive, i'd complain just as much (and have)...it's less about kids and more about people just being so inconsiderate these days... the kid aspect is just particulary aggravating because many--not you/not all--but many people have the attitude that their kids rule the universe.

 

[confusedtoo]

Date: 8/1/2005 5:05:49 PM
Author: MichelleCarmen

Date: 8/1/2005 4:50:52 PM

Author: wss

Date: 8/1/2005 4:48:02 PM

Author: MichelleCarmen

Date: 8/1/2005 4:45:25 PM


The world isn''t about primary serving DINKs either.

err - where did i say that it is?? i''m talking about all people who behave this way - no matter who they are or how many kids they have.

I''m not attacking you, just commenting generally. This seems to be the attitude amoung DINKS. Choosing not to have kids doesn''t mean that life should suddenly come to a standstill for those who DO choose to have kids, nor should DINKS be waiting on hand and foot like royality because they feel additionally priviileged.

all i''m trying to say is that people seem to have lost respect or awareness for each other (or maybe it''s always been bad? i don''t know... i''m definitely more aware of things as i get older.) and this goes for all kinds of people that i see (the guy swerving into me because he''s on his cel phone and not paying attention - i don''t know if he has children or not). however, what frightens me is that adults who behave this way pass this along to their kids and they, in turn, grow up with the same disregard for others.

it''s a small world that keeps getting smaller- and everyone deserves to be here and be happy. but it''s up to us whether or not it''s a good place to be and stays that way for future generations.

 

[Mara]

I can totally respect that some parents don't agree re physical discipline but not all kids can be 'talked to' or treated in a passive manner. I was one of them. My stepfather tried the whole 'lets just talk to her' and take away priveleges thing and within 2 years of marrying my mom he was like..yes PLEASE spank her!! The only thing that really got my attention was a good spanking. I'm not talking about beating the child, but I believe in spanking and so many parents nowadays are so against it. I think that the punishment fits the child and what they respond to IMO. I will also say that my smallest sister who is now 14...I used to be the one to spank her and the joke in the hosue is that I had a 'heavy hand' so she was totally always in-line around me because she knew I wouldn't hesitate to turn her over my knee and wack her one that would hurt! She's 14 now and a great well-behaved teen and adores me ... so she's kind of like my child.

Michelle you note that having a kid doesn't mean that your life comes to a standstill, I don't think that anyone is saying that nor do I agree with that either. BUT that probably also doesn't mean you would take your kids to a restaurant on a Sunday night at 10pm where it's all adults, right? Also, I don't think that I deserve any more or less than someone with kids and certainly not like the WORLD owes me anything, but if I decide not to have kids because I don't want to change my life and want to enjoy myself the way I do now (which is not what I am saying that I am doing, it's just a hypothetical), then it wouldn't be okay for anyone elses kids to threaten that because I *have* to be subjected to them in more adult places.

I don't hate children. There are some that I find really endearing if they can behave and especially the ones that are smarter than they should be are adorable. BUT it seems like SO MANY parents are just really lax these days. It's gone so far from the 'seen but not heard' to the other way that I am freaked out to think about life in another 10-20 years with parenting skills the way they are now! aka when those unruly kids now turn into adults! yikes!

 

[WTNLVR]

o.k., here goes. No kids, comfortable bank account, house worth more than that of any of our friends abutting a golf course and +3600 sf of living space (for 2 people). Home theatre complete with theatre seating and wet bar. New motorcycle, 2 beatiful wheaten terriers, and lots of gorgeous jewels. Now, that''s what not having kids gets you. Oh, yeh- no college tuition bills.

 

[websailor]

After reading this topic it sounds like there are two species of DINKS - the DINKS-LK and the DINKS-HK.....

Okay, what is LK and HK? Love Kids or Hate Kids!!!!!

Since neither kind of DINKS procreate, it''s amazing that they aren''t an endangered species!!!!!

I guess the FWSKs (Familys With Screaming Kids) and the FWQKs (Familys With Quiet Kids) make up for any DINK shortages with their creations!

 

[Jennifer5973]

Date: 8/2/2005 2:47:01 AM
Author: websailor

After reading this topic it sounds like there are two species of DINKS - the DINKS-LK and the DINKS-HK.....

Okay, what is LK and HK? Love Kids or Hate Kids!!!!!

Since neither kind of DINKS procreate, it''s amazing that they aren''t an endangered species!!!!!

I guess the FWSKs (Familys With Screaming Kids) and the FWQKs (Familys With Quiet Kids) make up for any DINK shortages with their creations!

Very funny! But I expect no less from you, WS!

But honestly, despite the connotation my posts probably have, I don''t hate kids; I just think they have their place in society like everybody else. Perhaps, I just don''t think they are any more "special" than you or I. But "hate"...well, that''s reserved for true hellions.

 

[Dancing Fire]

if you girls need lessons on changing diapers, let me know.i used to do it with one hand tie behind my back.

 

[fire&ice]

Kids ARE special. As I reverence the elderly, I also reverence the child.

And, regarding children in restaurants, well, I just think we have more restaurants. People eat out more. And, your damned if you do; your damned if you don''t. Recently, I went out with some friends and two boys (4 &6). The time was 6:00 on a Tues night. The restaurant was a mexican "joint". First, the stupid host sat us in the CENTER of the restaurant. Second, the waiter was terrible. It took forever to get our food. Anyone who has taken a child out to dinner knows that you have a window of opportunity. That window was about to close. Also, it took us 20 minutes to get our check. The boys were actually quite good - just figity by time we were feed and done. We got some dirty looks. You just become immune to them as it''s going to happen regardless of circumstances. All I could think of is "have some empathy - you really don''t have the picture".

Kids are unpredictable & meltdown can happen at a moments notice. I give the parent the benefit of the doubt. I have to say that at 30ish I was less forgiving. But, I completely concur that there are some devil children (read devil parents) out there. I don''t think it''s a current event. If you are in a circumstance where you are next to a devil child, just ask to be moved; or, say something polite to the parents. I see this as no difference than telling someone to turn off their cellphone or remove their hat (so you can see over their big head) in a theatre. It''s been my experience that the latter is more problematic.

Any discussion about people who choose to be childless is going to go down this path. To be on topic, I don''t think DINK''s have any virtues of their own by being childless. I think it was Emerson - heck it may have even been Ann landers - that wrote the "measure of a man''s success" it involved "leaving the world a better place by raising a great kid, planting a garden or knowing you have made a difference in the world because you were there."

And, just for the record, unless it''s one of those patios where you walk off the street, bringing your dog to a restaurant is just plain weird. At least children have to eat & can not be left alone. What are you accomplishing bringing your dog to a restaurant? What''s the purpose? But then, I never could figure out why someone would push their dog around in a very expensive pram either.

 

[Jennifer5973]

I personally wouldn''t bring my dogs to a restuarant, even if allowed. They are well-behaved generally but I can''t predict what they will do and out of CONSIDERATION for others, I wouldn''t want to risk them acting up... Plus, I''d be embarrassed, quite frankly, if they did act up and disrupt someone else''s time. Unlike some other people, I do not believe the universe revolves around me and my choices all the time.

I am going to quote George Carlin....substituing where he has vulgarities: "Kids are just like any other gorup of people; you have a few good ones and the rest are [jerks]." I tend to agree. How much of this is nature and how much is nurture, I don''t know...from what I''ve read, the scientific data is rather inconclusive, but I can certainly assume that bad parenting can make it much worse.

F&I, your point about the elderly is spot on, IMO. So few have respect for their own elderly relatives, nevermind how our society treats older people. I think the elderly, who have lived this life and contributed to the world (hopefully), deserve some of the gratuitous attention we as a society give to kids. And don''t even get me started on the veterans...

I also don''t need to procreate to make this world a better place. I am making it a better place in myriad ways without adding another mouth to feed.

 

[Mara]

Well since I have planted many a garden, I guess it's okay that we may not want kids?!?!

We only bring Portia to places that are indeed walk off the street type places...and there is a list online of the places where dogs on patios are allowed locally etc. It's never inside a restaurant, it's always an outside patio area and we have tons of places here..also certain entire cities are dog friendly where you can take the dog anywhere, even inside the mall etc! It's kind of funny but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a dog inside something like a mall or a real store, etc. When I have tried to take her into stores before I just am too jittery, aka I have no idea if she'll rush some stuffed squirrel and take out a table and chair in the process in a furniture store. I tried it once and said forget it. We'll stick to outdoor patios.

But on a few favorite restaurant patios she loves it. Oh and of course in her fave dog stores where anything goes!

My matron of honor just had her first baby last week....I have already lavished her burgeoninig belly with gifts and now I am dreaming about what I am going to buy him next time we see them. I'm also having a wooden picture frame made with his name engraved in it for his first picture. Part of the duties of Auntie Mara.

He better behave or else! I've still got that 'heavy hand'!

 

[Dancing Fire]

If you gonna have kids,have them early b/c you can''t turn back the clock.i''m always been surprise by....there''re so many DINKs on PS.it''s like 68% DINKs here and 97% of DINKs have pets. nothing against them,just surprise.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/2/2005 12:05:09 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
If you gonna have kids,have them early b/c you can''t turn back the clock.i''m always been surprise by....there''re so many DINKs on PS.it''s like 68% DINKs here and 97% of DINKs have pets. nothing against them,just surprise.

Geez, do you ever weigh the pros and cons when giving someone life advice?

There are many benefits to waiting to have children. MANY including but not limited to - being more financial secure, living your life to develop your marraige AND your "self", being able to afford to stay at home with the children more, having FAR more patience and life experience. And, I don''t buy that children are harder to concieve as one ages. My friend tried despretely to concieve in her early 30''s. Finally, she concieved at 33. The doctors told her she wouldn''t be having any more children. Fast forward to a more relaxed, secure 39 year old (not using the birth control they *supposedly* didn''t need) poof - she''s pregnant and gave birth to a healthy gal. She really likes the age difference.
About the only benefit I see in having children very early is that you become an empty nester quicker & you enter into the deal with less fright or trepitude.

 

[Mara]

Date: 8/2/2005 12:05:09 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
If you gonna have kids,have them early b/c you can''t turn back the clock.i''m always been surprise by....there''re so many DINKs on PS.it''s like 68% DINKs here and 97% of DINKs have pets. nothing against them,just surprise.

Personally, I think that income level/lifestyle has something to do with how many people have kids vs not in this generation. Also the geopgraphical differences. Here in the BayArea, out of literally everyone we know or are acquainted with, only about 1/3 of the couples have children or plan to. The rest are either like us and not sure but if so it will definitely be later, OR they have decided to permanently not have kids. And yes those who don''t have kids usually have pets and treat them pretty well. Especially in our townhouse complex, tons of dogs (about 40 to a townhouse complex of ~90), and only about 5 kids.

All of these people have high dual incomes, and are very into the lifestyles that they lead...and a child would possibly cramp that. Most are in their 30''s in our complex and friend/acquaintance group. Also, I think the later you go without kids, the harder it is to actually say you want to have them. Alot of people that I know who were DINKS and ended up with kids, it just ''happened'' and then they figured, why not lets run with it. So they didn''t consciously make that change to say lets get pregnant. It was more reactionary.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/2/2005 12:02:06 PM
Author: Mara
Well since I have planted many a garden, I guess it''s okay that we may not want kids?!?!

Yes, success isn''t measured by the size of your house, car - whatever. Success is measured by your contribution to society.

Oh, I have no problem in those off the street cafe''s. In the city, often walking a dog brings you to the restaurant to begin with. We have a dog friendly shopping mall. It''s sort of outdoors. The shops that allow a dog have a sign. Most do. Doesn''t make much sense to me. Your selling fine linen sheets & it has dog hair on it? I''d be afraid the dog would pee or something. Though I did see a kid peeing in the corner of a shop much to his mom''s horror! They are so darn quick.

 

[JCJD]

I''ve always found it interesting (and a little sad) that so many couples who choose not to have children seem to be among those that would make the best parents - people who actually think about the enormity of raising children! It takes a lot of guts and deep thought, and humility, to say "we don''t feel up to the task of parenthood". Parenting takes a lot of energy in many different ways, and too many people walk into the lifetime role blindly and irresponsibly, not realizing that they are responsible for raising future adults.

We''re young newlyweds with 2 wonderful feline children.

We will definitely have human children one day, but certainly not yet, Lord-willing!! Like ame, we''ve also decided that if we have fertility problems we''ll adopt.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 8/2/2005 12:24:13 PM
Author: JCJD
I''ve always found it interesting (and a little sad) that so many couples who choose not to have children seem to be among those that would make the best parents - people who actually think about the enormity of raising children! It takes a lot of guts and deep thought, and humility, to say ''we don''t feel up to the task of parenthood''. Parenting takes a lot of energy in many different ways, and too many people walk into the lifetime role blindly and irresponsibly, not realizing that they are responsible for raising future adults.

Thank you. This is very thoughtful.