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Antique ring help: loose stones, thin metalwork

AMRose

AMRose

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
48
Long time lurker, but just purchased my first antique piece. I LOVE the ring but have concerns about what I might be in for long term. I do not live near anywhere specializing in antique pieces and don't get many chances to view old jewelry in person, so I am not sure if the issues are to be expected and not out of the ordinary. Looking for feedback from those more knowledgeable.

Stats from vendor: Circa 1910, est 2.2 ct OEC, L/M/N, VS2/SI1 with calibre cut onyx. Ring was purchased at presale price so did not come with an appraisal or qualitative report. I have until tomorrow to decide whether to return it. To me, the ring seems very delicate/risky to wear more than just very special occasions as I would hate to lose original stones. I would love to wear it several times a week. Local long running jeweler looked it over and commented:

- diamond is securely set (good!)
- at least 5 loose onyx
- metalwork is extremely thin in spots
- repairing the metal would be $$$ (thousands) - I would likely need to send out to specialist

I will be contacting the vendor to relay my findings, but thoughts?!? Would you wear this piece with the risk of losing stones, then just repair when needed? Would you send off for repair or restoration right away before wearing it?

IMG_3386.jpg
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Tried to capture the gaps and where there appears to be missing metal holding the onyx in.
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The ring is beautiful and design-wise very wearable. How much did you pay for the ring? Depending on the bargain - or not - you will need to decide how much you want to invest in the project. I am sure others here who have had similar rings made could advise you how much a total rebuild would cost. The popular David Klass does antique repairs I believe!
 
I paid $16,500.

I browsed on this forum and online for restoration options and did see DK mentioned as an option.
 
Seconding @lydial here. Depending on whether you feel the price was a good value for the center stone, all other things might become relative. Finding the right diamond can be a long road to travel, so how much do you love the diamond? If it makes your heart sing, keep the ring and then consider next steps. If it doesn’t, then you have your answer.

If you do love the diamond, there are options for making the ring more wearable. There are specialists who can rehab the ring, either a complete refurbish with touch ups to the engraving, or just the minimum to make the onyx secure. Cicada Jewellery comes to mind, and of course David Klass who is well known for precise and refined work at reasonable cost.

I hope you keep it, please come back and tell us what you decide!
 
I do not know enough about antiques to determine if that is a good value for that diamond. The lower color decreases the diamonds monetary value (in a good way if you like tinted stones, more stone for the money!) But it is a nice chunk of money. But if you can not wear it at that price I certainly would start talking to the seller about potentially returning or discounting. That is just me though.
 
I posted before seeing the price. Maybe someone who has shopped for that size stone can advise on value.

Anyone?
 
I would contact David Klass with the issues and see if they can/will work on it. Get a quote with some details on how they would go about fixing it.
(sometimes the cure is worse than the ailment).

Beautiful ring by the way!

Edit...there is an antique appraiser on Instragram that could probably help you find someone to work
on it. Her name is jewelrynerd. She is very knowledgable.
 
Karl_K said:
The head of the ring is cast there is very very little chance it is from 1910, more like 1950 or newer in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Fascinating, thank you. Could the cast be because repair work was done at some point? Or are you saying this leads you to believe the entire setting is newer than stated?

My sister is a jewelry metalsmith but has not yet viewed the pics I sent her - wondering if she will notice the same thing :)
 
AMRose said:
Fascinating, thank you. Could the cast be because repair work was done at some point? Or are you saying this leads you to believe the entire setting is newer than stated?

My sister is a jewelry metalsmith but has not yet viewed the pics I sent her - wondering if she will notice the same thing :)
Click to expand...
The entire head was cast so it was made that way,
I very very highly doubt it was made anywhere close to 1910 in my opinion.
 
Karl_K said:
The entire head was cast so it was made that way,
I very very highly doubt it was made anywhere close to 1910 in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for this. Although it makes me sad as I would love it to be an original old setting, I would rather know! Definitely loses some of the cool factor for me...
 
It looks to be a beautiful stone in a wonderful setting that looks gorgeous in your hand!
That said- from what I can tell, you are paying a premium for a ring (with estimated stats!) that needs extensive custom repair/replacement by a very skilled rehabber.
If you think you can talk the vendor into more evaluation time- you are in love with this OEC’s performance- and you place a high value over a vintage peice over a repro- and you can get the ring to an appraiser (vetted list available on PS) get a better idea on stats from an unbiased eye- and you think the vendor will then negotiate the price down with the info from the independent appraiser -
Whew!
And then as it’s been mentioned, sometimes rehab is more expensive than repro.
 
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Are you still within the return window? You could have that ring made by David klass (and source a gorgeous OEC that is actually GIA certified) for that price or less and it Wont have durability issues.

The biggest problem here is that you paid a ton of money for an unwearable piece (bc the risk of loss is huge). Plus, the center Stone doesn't have any paperwork, meaning that it could be anything (if could be smaller, more included, lower color).

Just an example, but this is beautiful and comes with a gia cert.
http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/1-95ct-cushiony-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-j-vvs2/

If I were you I would buy an antique oec and have it made and return this one. As @Karl_K said, it's not actually from 1910, so the antique factor shouldn't play into your choice.
 
Personally, I would return the ring and if you love the design, you could purchase a stone and have DK or CVB make a similar ring for you. It wouldn't be too difficult to find a beautiful OEC. Adam at Old World Diamonds could source a beauty for you. My opinion.
 
Rfisher said:
It looks to be a beautiful stone in a wonderful setting that looks gorgeous in your hand!
That said- from what I can tell, you are paying a premium for a ring (with estimated stats!) that needs extensive custom repair/replacement by a very skilled rehabber.
If you think you can talk the vendor into more evaluation time- you are in love with this OEC’s performance- and you place a high value over a vintage peice over a repro- and you can get the ring to an appraiser (vetted list available on PS) get a better idea on stats from an unbiased eye- and you think the vendor will then negotiate the price down with the info from the independent appraiser -
Whew!
And then as it’s been mentioned, sometimes rehab is more expensive than repro.
Click to expand...

All This.

The ring looks very similar to an original antique to me but I’m puzzled about the condition. It looks really abused. It would have been hand forged and or plus die struck in 1910. I can’t figure out why the strutwork in the back of the ring looks so sloppy and missing in places. I don’t recall the name of the holes that are made to fit stones into, but the metal around those holes would have been perfection in an antique hand forged or die struck piece.

Maybe it is cast, like Karl K says which surprised me at first, but after looking closely I agree: to me that level of sloppy strut finishing is evidence of casting. On the underside of an antique ring things aren’t usually so messy or damaged. Original hand forged would have been very precise and neat, originally.

Center diamond value seems retail value, not a bargain, this is without a cert and estimated carat weight and color (I think L/M/N seems right, but could be lower color).

I found this ring online, as I had saved a link when I saw it myself. The setting looks really unique and beautiful but restoration will cost money. Call Cicada Jewelry in LA who works with the Gem Doctor see their Instagram accounts and ask for a rough estimate for a restore. They would be the ones I’d go to first for restoration of such an intricate piece.

Bottom line, you are paying retail for a very unique beautiful piece, but unless you really want the setting, which I think might have issues, up to and including the setting not being a true antique, I wouldn’t recommend full price for this particular piece which I think is already priced close to retail, which will include some costs for a rehab.
 
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Really appreciate all the comments and opinions!

I just got off the phone with my sister, who is a metalsmith and has seen many antique pieces. Unfortunately she is in another city so she was only able to view pics. But she had the same comments as @Karl_K: setting is cast, not die struck, so the setting is not that old. She thought I may be better off recreating with a loose diamond, unless I so love this particular diamond that it is worth keeping just for that reason and repairing/recreating once the setting falls apart.

So... the closest knowledgeable shop (on the Pricescope appraisers list) that can do appraisals, laser welding repair estimate, and an estimate to just recreate the whole dang thing if I were to purchase a different stone is about 3.5 hrs away. At this point I am going to see if I can get an extension on the return period and an appointment to take the ring in, then go from there. Otherwise leaning toward returning.
 
Have you seen @soxfan ring for sale? You should consider that one! Same budget and gorgeous! Idk if I can post a link here but if it’s not against forum rules, maybe someone else can!
 
nala said:
Have you seen @soxfan ring for sale? You should consider that one! Same budget and gorgeous! Idk if I can post a link here but if it’s not against forum rules, maybe someone else can!
Click to expand...

I just took look at her ring, thanks for the idea! Very pretty. But I prefer the octagon onyx halo on the one I purchased - part of what got me :) I've actually always lusted after an asscher but for some reason this one really struck me.
 
A quick search of OECs around your carat weight on the Old World Diamonds site gives two options cheaper than your ring, and at a whiter color:

29A42473-BF47-4269-9B7D-4C6F48665883.png

Let’s say a new custom platinum setting costs $3-5K. That would still be cheaper than your ring when you factor in the cost of repairs to make it wearable.

If it were my 16K, I’d return it and have something made.
 
I think that it is a deco reproduction from as late as the mid 2000s which has been worn and loved. There were companies like Fay Cullen which made a lot of calibre-cut deco settings which they used to sell old cut stones, at very reasonable prices. I can see why you love it... the cut on that old european is absolutely gorgeous!! Well cut old europeans are magical stones. If you are willing to be patient you could probably get a bigger OEC stone in a perfect custom version of that setting for the same price. Patient because there is no guarantee that the stones OWD or anyone else has on hand will be a similar cut... well priced OECs that look like that are usually sold very quickly! But if you have time you could ask vendors to find you one. That gorgeous diamond could be lower color than what you were quoted, with the right cut OECs can appear several shades whiter than MRBs, and bezel settings can make them appear whiter still. Your plan for a road trip to get it better evaluated sounds very exciting!
 
@Rfisher just looked at this too haha. Yes, I would love something all original, but maybe I have to give on that. For sure this whole thing is making me think if I should just go for an asscher.

@JPie yep, I know... I keep looking at those diamonds and weighing the option that starting over might be best. My sister was very rough estimating $3-4k to recreate the setting - seems you have a similar guess.
 
@Polyhex For sure the stone is very pretty to me also (unexpectedly so as I thought there was only a 20% chance I'd want to keep it!). I've obsessively looked at antique jewelry for 15+ years so no rush, plenty of time lol. Super intriguing that you think the setting could be even more recent.
 
HI:

OP, you have great taste and a healthy budget. The setting, while lovely, is very worn. Being worn doesn't make it antique, it just makes it in great need of significant repair.

I would return the ring because you are not getting what you want (some enchantment and provenance). If you are patient, I am betting you can find something a lot closer to your wants; and PS'ers can help.

Curious, have you viewed the usual suspects--e.g Lang Antiques? Have you seen the antique forum here on PS? There is a list of vendors that many people have purchased from with success.

cheers--Sharon
 
@canuk-gal I follow and continuously browse: Lang Antiques, Jewels by Grace, Victor Barbone, Gray & Davis, Erstwhile, EraGem, Estate Diamond Jewelry, etc. I periodically look through the antique forum on here, and will look through again.
 
AMRose said:
@canuk-gal I follow and continuously browse: Lang Antiques, Jewels by Grace, Victor Barbone, Gray & Davis, Erstwhile, EraGem, Estate Diamond Jewelry, etc. I periodically look through the antique forum on here, and will look through again.
Click to expand...

Keep up the good work!!! I also wonder if Adam at OWD could source a stone and find you an antique setting. Just sayin.....:wavey:
 
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