antique cushion cuts a very clueless newbie

peasypeas · Jul 25, 2012

can you please tell me more about them, I'm very clueless about diamonds all around. I just think these are so pretty.
I would love to see one in a setting (possibly solitaire, maybe halo) on someones hand?
I can't picture how they look, I've seen pictures of loose stones, but I can't determine what "shape" they are
also when purchasing an antique stone
how do you go about doing that
where do you go
how do you know what you're getting

I saw this site but again, when you don't know anything it's not helpful
http://www.jewelsbyericagrace.com/
http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/347ct-Antique-Cushion-Cut/23836768_WT92sQ#!i=1937544532&k=FR6MjRD

mellon · Jul 25, 2012

i was doing some research on cushion cut as well. I found this video very helpful\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O7H8E_MYRM&feature=g-hist

Dreamer_D · Jul 25, 2012

Are you looking for a true antique or are you interested in a modern antique style cut?

If you want an antique cushion there are many on PS. Haven and anne_h (I think) have lovely ones, and Burk, and justginger, and many others. Try a search to find threads.

To find one the easiest way it to call Jewels by Erica Grace and Old World Diamonds, those are the two most reliable sources for old cuts that we have seen on Pricescope. Antique cushions, also called Old Mine Cuts or Old Mine Brilliants, are very old -- typically they were cut prior to 1900. They are also more rustic than OECs and later style olf cuts. Because of this, they are hard to find if you want a certain level of symmetry -- in outline or in optics -- and they often are wonky or have some charm and character in their appearance. I love a nice antique cushion. That one you linked from JBEG is really gorgeous.

justginger · Jul 25, 2012

Dreamer is right - there are a lot of antique cushions around here! Both my engagement ring center stone and my new ring center stone are antique cushions, one from Jewels by Erica Grace and one from Old World Diamonds. Both vendors are excellent and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either. They are both very honest. If you want to KNOW what you are getting, ask to only see certified stones from the EGL or GIA. EGL is the lab used for most antique stones, but please be aware that they grade color softly. It is not unusual for a stone graded by GIA as a L to come back from EGL as a I or J. Just know that so if you're comparing stones from different labs, you have an idea of how the colors REALLY compare.

Classifying exactly what cut an antique stone is can be tricky. Generally people use three separate classifications - Old Mine Cut, Old European Cut, and antique cushion. Many use OMC and antique cushion interchangeably. Some perhaps choose to call elongated stones 'antique cushions' and more square stones 'OMC's. I personally call my stone an antique cushion even though it has a nearly perfect width to length ratio. To me the faceting looks more like a cushion than an OMC. But I have no doubt that someone else would call it an OMC. It is not unusual for two vendors to look at the same stone and suggest different names.

All of these antique stones were cut prior to the development of the modern round brilliant cut. Either Grace or Erica (of Jewels by Erica Grace) would be a good source to describe the exact time periods each type of stone was cut in. The antique cushions/OMCs came first, I *think* they were common in the 40 years or so before 1900. Then in the early 1900s, the OEC saw its rise to fame. It tends to be a more symmetrical, 'even' looking stone in comparison to the earlier OMCs/cushions. Then you also have 'late OECs' and 'transitional' stones, where the facets are getting smaller and sometimes create a slight checkerboard pattern. They are the transition cuts on the final steps to the modern round brilliant.

The large facets and high crowns from these antique stones handle light differently the modern stones you see in most stores. They reflect more 'fire' - colored light. Less white light. They often shoot little rainbows out all over the place, which is something that many antique cut lovers really enjoy. You don't get much 'sparkle' in the conventional sense. It doesn't look like a bunch of glitter in your stone. The facets being larger result in BIG flashes of light, not the pinpoints from new stones.

I'll attach a couple of photos of my new ring so you can see what it looks like IRL. It is a fairly large stone so you can see the patterning of the facets well. I'm sure everyone is sick of looking at it!

rubybeth · Jul 25, 2012

justginger|1343212766|3239574 said:
I'll attach a couple of photos of my new ring so you can see what it looks like IRL. It is a fairly large stone so you can see the patterning of the facets well. I'm sure everyone is sick of looking at it!

NO WAY is anyone sick of looking at Poppy, ginger!!

peasypeas · Jul 25, 2012

thank you!
I love your rings!

that's the shape I like, not so long as an emerald, but not really round.
as far as color goes, do you mean it's really just up to whoever is interpreting it?
I pinned a OEC that is more round, but the antique cushions can be both "round" and ... squoval (is that a true term?I don't know) is that correct?
is it only wise to buy these if you can see them in person first?
I was really just researching redoing my 5 stone but gosh these are so pretty, and I've not had a solitaire
you all are a bad influence

peasypeas · Jul 25, 2012

also Justginger- this is kinda off topic but do you wear a band with it or not? would you by any chance have a 5 stone you could put up to it for a visual ?

LOL it's ok if you don't . I have no concept of picturing things in my head at all

peasypeas · Jul 25, 2012

also real quick before i check out the youtube video
for the stone I linked here is the info from the site- what does Kozibe mean? and O/P ? thank you and I'm sorry I am so clueless, the stone in my ring now was researched by my DH not me.
Beautiful, rare and HUGE antique cushion! We LOVE everything about this diamond! From its soft, pillowy outline to its crisp facets and insane kozibe. A perfect example of a true antique cushion.

EGL O/P, VS1

Measures 9.21 x 8.88 x 6.45mm

justginger · Jul 27, 2012

I am sorry I didn't see your responses til now.

Color is subjective, so yes, to some extent it is up to whoever is grading it. However, some labs are notoriously more strict than others, within their training and protocols. As I said, GIA will often grade a stone 2 colors lower than EGL will. I can't comment as to WHY they choose to do it, but they do. GIA is the industry standard and is considered "correct." The better EGL grading is somewhat blowing smoke up your bum, but that's how it works - the antique jewelry business sticks to EGL.

OECs are generally round. As they were cut by hand, they are very rarely actually perfectly round. They are usually off only by a few points of a mm in any direction though, while OMCs and antique cushions are often pillowy, wonky, slightly off round.

I can't answer whether or not it is 'wise' to purchase sight unseen. I can tell you that I bought both the antique cushion in my engagement ring and the new stone both sight unseen. I had seen antique stones in person at an antique jeweler...but they were poor specimens. I think seeing them put me off a bit, but I am glad I persisted and got my own. They were beautifully cut and blew the ones I saw in real life out of the water! A well cut antique stone is STUNNING.

I do not wear a band with either my engagement ring (which is three-sided pave and has a large donut at the base) or this one (also has a large donut). That donut that sits underneath the stone doesn't allow a band to sit alongside the ring. I wear a wedding band on my right hand instead (when I actually feel like wear it, I chop and change my rings a lot).

My wedding band actually is a 5 stone OEC band (I think it originally belonged to the PSer Upgradable; I purchased it secondhand). BUT the OECs are so small, only 10 points each, that it won't help you visualize anything. AND I don't have any decent photos of it anyway!

O/P is the color of the diamond you linked. Below a certain level, the labs start giving stones a split color grading because it is not particularly exact. It could be an O, it could be a P. Again, it is subjective and there are different tones of that color - your stone could be tinged with yellow, or green, or grey. The stone I posted for you was presented by the vendor as an L, graded by one independent appraiser as a GIA O/P, and graded by another independent appraiser as a GIA M. That shows you how subjective it can be!

The Kozibe effect is something you can see in the stone - reflections of the culet facet all around the stone. It shows as circular facets around the perimeter of the stone. Some people liken it to pieces of confetti, evenly spaced around the diamond. You can easily see it in the fifth photo on the page you linked - see the circular facets that are identical to the center one, but they're located down towards the bottom? They're very bright white/yellow. You'll be able to see circles like that all around the outside of the stone, depending on how you're holding it. Some like it, some don't. I do, in the right stone. It might be distracting in some others though. It's completely up to your preference, to your eyes.

Hope I've helped at least a bit. Feel free to ask more questions, there are plenty of people around here who are even more knowledgeable than me as well!

peasypeas · Jul 27, 2012

THANK YOU
I am thinking I like the "chunkiness" of the older cuts. I watched that video and I like the way the light hits it.
my stone now is a modern round and while I like that the chunky is nice to me right now.
I guess I'm just also timid about it because I've never seen one of these stones (poor or great quality) so I suspect I should look for one first lol
what are the questions I need to be asking about stones if I'm going to buy them online?
do you/can you ask for light performance pics etc?
ugh we really need to get our house closed on first LOL but I like this stone.

ariel144 · Jul 28, 2012

good old gold has great educational videos on cushion cut diamonds as they are Jon's favorite. It will help you identify what color you can live with and educate you on how to look for a great performing stone in an OMC if you want an antique stone. They will also call in antique stones for you. Jewels by Erica grace and Old World diamonds are very good...lots to know about these beautiful cuts but remember some do not perform as well as others...so finding a great antique stone is tricky.

If you will post your budget on this thread, there are old cut freaks in here that will help you find the best stone for your $$$.

ariel144 · Jul 28, 2012

justginger|1343212766|3239574 said:
Dreamer is right - there are a lot of antique cushions around here! Both my engagement ring center stone and my new ring center stone are antique cushions, one from Jewels by Erica Grace and one from Old World Diamonds. Both vendors are excellent and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either. They are both very honest. If you want to KNOW what you are getting, ask to only see certified stones from the EGL or GIA. EGL is the lab used for most antique stones, but please be aware that they grade color softly. It is not unusual for a stone graded by GIA as a L to come back from EGL as a I or J. Just know that so if you're comparing stones from different labs, you have an idea of how the colors REALLY compare.

Classifying exactly what cut an antique stone is can be tricky. Generally people use three separate classifications - Old Mine Cut, Old European Cut, and antique cushion. Many use OMC and antique cushion interchangeably. Some perhaps choose to call elongated stones 'antique cushions' and more square stones 'OMC's. I personally call my stone an antique cushion even though it has a nearly perfect width to length ratio. To me the faceting looks more like a cushion than an OMC. But I have no doubt that someone else would call it an OMC. It is not unusual for two vendors to look at the same stone and suggest different names.

All of these antique stones were cut prior to the development of the modern round brilliant cut. Either Grace or Erica (of Jewels by Erica Grace) would be a good source to describe the exact time periods each type of stone was cut in. The antique cushions/OMCs came first, I *think* they were common in the 40 years or so before 1900. Then in the early 1900s, the OEC saw its rise to fame. It tends to be a more symmetrical, 'even' looking stone in comparison to the earlier OMCs/cushions. Then you also have 'late OECs' and 'transitional' stones, where the facets are getting smaller and sometimes create a slight checkerboard pattern. They are the transition cuts on the final steps to the modern round brilliant.

The large facets and high crowns from these antique stones handle light differently the modern stones you see in most stores. They reflect more 'fire' - colored light. Less white light. They often shoot little rainbows out all over the place, which is something that many antique cut lovers really enjoy. You don't get much 'sparkle' in the conventional sense. It doesn't look like a bunch of glitter in your stone. The facets being larger result in BIG flashes of light, not the pinpoints from new stones.

I'll attach a couple of photos of my new ring so you can see what it looks like IRL. It is a fairly large stone so you can see the patterning of the facets well. I'm sure everyone is sick of looking at it!

Are you kidding??? Can't get enough of that OMC...it is so lovely thanks for posting again....how was your vacation?

ariel144 · Jul 28, 2012

peasypeas|1343270052|3240219 said:
also real quick before i check out the youtube video
for the stone I linked here is the info from the site- what does Kozibe mean? and O/P ? thank you and I'm sorry I am so clueless, the stone in my ring now was researched by my DH not me.
Beautiful, rare and HUGE antique cushion! We LOVE everything about this diamond! From its soft, pillowy outline to its crisp facets and insane kozibe. A perfect example of a true antique cushion.

EGL O/P, VS1

Measures 9.21 x 8.88 x 6.45mm

O/P is the color of the stone which is graded by EGL...if it was EGL USA then it might be a P color. Erica can tell you how accurate that color is on this stone. Kozibe effect is the open culet in the center casting reflections in other parts of the stone.

You can search in Pricescope for discussion on Kozibe effect ...here is one:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/modern-cushion-vs-antique-cushion.23890/page-2']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/modern-cushion-vs-antique-cushion.23890/page-2[/URL]
Go to www.goodoldgold.com and start watching educational videos and that will prepare you to search for your perfect OMC.

peasypeas · Jul 28, 2012

ariel144|1343449361|3241850 said:
peasypeas|1343270052|3240219 said:

also real quick before i check out the youtube video
for the stone I linked here is the info from the site- what does Kozibe mean? and O/P ? thank you and I'm sorry I am so clueless, the stone in my ring now was researched by my DH not me.
Beautiful, rare and HUGE antique cushion! We LOVE everything about this diamond! From its soft, pillowy outline to its crisp facets and insane kozibe. A perfect example of a true antique cushion.

EGL O/P, VS1

Measures 9.21 x 8.88 x 6.45mm

Click to expand...

O/P is the color of the stone which is graded by EGL...if it was EGL USA then it might be a P color. Erica can tell you how accurate that color is on this stone. Kozibe effect is the open culet in the center casting reflections in other parts of the stone.

You can search in Pricescope for discussion on Kozibe effect ...here is one:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/modern-cushion-vs-antique-cushion.23890/page-2']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/modern-cushion-vs-antique-cushion.23890/page-2[/URL]
Go to www.goodoldgold.com and start watching educational videos and that will prepare you to search for your perfect OMC.

thank you so much for these links!

peasypeas · Jul 29, 2012

I keep going back to that stone I linked
darn grown up things like buying a house

peasypeas · Jul 29, 2012

is that stone something you all would consider?

armywife13 · Jul 29, 2012

peasypeas|1343534494|3242355 said:
I keep going back to that stone I linked
darn grown up things like buying a house

I know, right??? Darn real life needs! The purchasing of a new living room set and SUV is keeping me from my dream OEC eternity wedding band.

And I luuurve the diamond you linked! 3.47 cts of gorgeousness.

peasypeas · Jul 29, 2012

no doubt, and kids. man do they have to be fed EVERY day? lol

you have a PM armywife, err never mind there are no pm's here lol
I was going to say dh is army also

armywife13 · Jul 29, 2012

I know, how dare our children and husband's think they should eat everyday, we should really have a talk with them about the real priorities in life. Haha. Your DH is in the army two? Who knows we may end up at the same post one day! We might be headed to Campbell at the beginning of next year.

ariel144 · Jul 29, 2012

peasypeas · Jul 30, 2012

the color thing is a consideration. the stone i have now is white/bright, with a little fluorescence which we actually wanted for brightness so I'll look through those threads thank you soo much!

is there no PM's here? lol

peasypeas · Jul 30, 2012

here's more info on that stone I posted

The 3.48 is a gorgeous stone - and a true, classic, antique cushion. Its a very prismatic stone, very lively, and very white facing for its stated color. I would say that the stone actually faces up like an M-colored stone. You do see some color in the body, but not so much from the top.

UGH. we close soon on the house but really.. someone buy it and put me out of my misery

antique cushion cuts a very clueless newbie

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