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Antibody testing

Dee*Jay

Dee*Jay

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Mar 26, 2006
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We've talked about this in other threads, but now that it's actually becoming available I thought I'd separate the topic out and see who has done it (or plans on it) and what the outcome was.

I have an appointment on May 7. There are other places that have sooner availability (or did mid-day today, not sure what is available now) but in reading about different tests I was most comfortable with the one I chose. Some tests I've read may even mistake the antibody for the regular flu (which I'm pretty sure I had earlier this year) for the COVID-19 antibodies. Not really sure how all this works, but I'm doing the best I can to make an informed decision.

Anyone do this yet? Or have something scheduled in the near future? This is not a US specific question BTW; interested in all locations.
 
I'd do it when it becomes available. I recently was very, very congested (though not short of breath) and then a few days later I have a fever of 101.3. I don't thing it was COVID-19, really, but I'd like to know for sure.
 
We'll get it when it's available here. DH is certain he had covid-19 in early January. I've not had any symptoms but would like to know if I was asymptomatic.
 
DH was very sick in February, as sick as I have ever seen him. Stayed in bed for 5 days with fever 101-103. Too damn stubborn to go to the doctor, smh. We are both wondering if he had it. The kids and I did not catch it. I will definitely encourage him to get an antibody test.
 
I want to do it. I had what I thought was the worst flu of my life in January even though I had the flu shot last fall. Now I wonder if it really was the flu. My daughter had the same symptoms.
 
I watch this Dr on youtube a lot and respect his opinion on a lot of things:

It sounds like it may be to soon to really get anything from the testing or to even know what the results will mean.
 
btw what do you think of the IL stay at home extension?
I was expecting it and think it will not be the last extension.
 
DS was due to go today for the test, but after reading up, decided that at the moment, it’s not reliable enough to potentially put himself at risk going to the test centre.
 
Karl_K said:
btw what do you think of the IL stay at home extension?
I was expecting it and think it will not be the last extension.
Click to expand...

I think it is the prudent thing to do. Under the circumstances.
www.huschblackwell.com

50 State Update on Expirations of Shelter in Place

www.huschblackwell.com www.huschblackwell.com

For Illinois:
"Governor Pritzker announced it will include modifications to the original order. These modifications go into effect May 1, and include allowing certain previously postponed surgeries to take place, allowing nonessential retail stores to open for online orders and curbside pickup, and the reopening of state parks with social distancing protocols still in place."

How are you feeling today @Karl_K? Sending continued well wishes to you and hope your recovery is going smoothly.
 
missy said:
How are you feeling today @Karl_K? Sending continued well wishes to you and hope your recovery is going smoothly.
Click to expand...
I think the extension is pretty much what has to be happening.
In most of the state the hospitals are keeping up with the load with open vents and icu beds.
There is a shortage of double isolation icu rooms that are safer for everyone for covid patient intake. One thing this has shown that the design of hospitals needs a huge rethink.

Thank you!
I'm feeling as weak as a 2 day old kitten, im not feeling real bad just run out of gas real quick.
The nasty damp weather is not helping at all.
If the weather was better so I could start doing some longer walking I would feel better quicker.
Back and forth across the room does not do it.
 
Karl_K said:
I think the extension is pretty much what has to be happening.
In most of the state the hospitals are keeping up with the load with open vents and icu beds.
There is a shortage of double isolation icu rooms that are safer for everyone for covid patient intake. One thing this has shown that the design of hospitals needs a huge rethink.

Thank you!
I'm feeling as weak as a 2 day old kitten, im not feeling real bad just run out of gas real quick.
The nasty damp weather is not helping at all.
If the weather was better so I could start doing some longer walking I would feel better quicker.
Back and forth across the room does not do it.
Click to expand...

Please take it easy and just rest and recuperate. One day at a time and your strength will return. Don’t overdo. Slow and steady. Continued healing vibes to you.
 
Dee*Jay said:
Anyone do this yet? Or have something scheduled in the near future? This is not a US specific question BTW; interested in all locations.
Click to expand...

When (if) this becomes available where I live (Canada), I will definitely get tested, because like several others, I suspect I may already have had COVID-19 this past winter.
 
I think Canada has rejected what tests are available at the moment because of lack of accuracy. I would LOVE to see this kind of testing.
 
There's a couple of docs down here how offer it. One that I know of has told people if you get a positive, follow it up with the state's test to be 100% sure, which makes perfect sense to me.

I was offered the test for free and I'm tabling it. I don't think I ever had it so won't waste the test.
 
We've had them as my husband and daughter had a fairly clear cases of it and they're only doing the swab test here if you require hospitalisation, which, thankfully, neither of them did. My doctor is doing them, but has warned that they're extremely unreliable, with at least a 30% false result (particularly negative results). It also takes time for the antibodies to show up, so a negative result doesn't mean the result will be the same in a month. Additionally, apparently you can have a mild case that doesn't produce antibodies/immunity (inasmuch as they think there's immunity). They both tested positive, I was negative, FWIW.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone! I wholeheartedly agree that there are potential negatives here, including lack of accuracy. The place that I've scheduled with is using a test that has been approved by the FDA, but who knows if that really means anything. My insurance covers this BTW, otherwise it's a $225 cost.
 
Karl, I'm not surprised by the extended order. I hope people stay vigilant though and don't overstep the bounds of the newly relaxed restrictions. I went to Meijer first thing this morning BTW (first time in two weeks) and I think I was the only person in the store without a face mask of some sort (both workers and customers). Based on our new requirements as of May 1 I ordered some last night, but no idea of they will really come in time...

Glad to hear you're doing a bit better! Hopefully it will warm up a little soon and we can all get outside some!
 
I am all but convinced I had this virus in late February, and would love to get a test.
 
Dee*Jay said:
Thanks for the responses everyone! I wholeheartedly agree that there are potential negatives here, including lack of accuracy. The place that I've scheduled with is using a test that has been approved by the FDA, but who knows if that really means anything. My insurance covers this BTW, otherwise it's a $225 cost.
Click to expand...

Did you find this place through your doctor or on the internet? I’ve googled antibody testing for my state and I see nothing yet.
 
House Cat, it received wide news coverage. Here is an item from NBC:

**********

A private clinic in Chicago's Lincoln Park neighborhood is now offering coronavirus antibody tests, which the FDA says can help identify who has been infected as well as identify those still at risk.

Innovative Express Care believes it is one of the first clinics in the Chicago area to offer an FDA-approved test to the general public.

Antibodies may provide potential immunity against future infection, and the FDA says results from these tests can also help inform who may qualify to donate plasma to patients seriously ill with COVID-19.

Dr. Rahul Khare, an emergency room physician and the CEO of Innovative Express Care, said the information will be invaluable.

"I think it is very, very important to understand the prevalence of COVID-19 and get people back to work, especially healthcare workers and first responders," Dr. Khare said. "If you do have antibodies, what does that tell you? For right now, it [says] you have a low chance of getting [coronavirus] again."

The FDA has expanded access to Serology (antibody) tests through the emergency use authorization (EAU) process. Innovative Express Care is using a test called Euroimmun, from parent company PerkinElmer, which got its EAU on March 31.

To qualify for an antibody test, patients cannot have had symptoms for at least two weeks.

"If you do have symptoms, we don’t want you to have the antibody test. Actually, it would give you a false sense of reassurance," said Dr. Khare. "The antibodies will not show up for at least 10-14 days."

Innovative Express Care has partnered with Quest Diagnostics to run its lab results. In a press release, Quest said it, "expects to scale up testing over the coming weeks. Laboratory capacity is expected to expand from approximately 70,000 tests per day by the end of this week to approximately 150,000 tests a day by early-May. Quest expects to report antibody test results within 1-2 days from specimen collection, depending on demand."

Dr. Khare hopes to increase daily testing at his facility from 150 currently to as many as 300 in the coming weeks. He said more tests will give officials a better understanding of the prevalence of coronavrius and at achieving what is known as "herd immunity."

"We want 60 to 70 percent of people to have had antibodies to this. That we know for a fact there’s a significant decrease in contagiousness of this," he said.
 
This was just passed on to me.


Date: April 23, 2020 at 5:53:47 PM CDT
Subject: A Message from Dr. Lorrie Elliott, Medical Director NM Executive Health: COVID-19 Antibody Testing

COVID-19 Antibody Testing

Covid-19 antibody testing is being promoted as a way to tell who has already had COVID-19 and therefore may be immune. We are getting many inquiries about the availability of antibody testing and wanted to let you know about the current state of antibody testing.

If you have had COVID-19, are you immune to it?

We don’t know the answer to this. What we do know:

Most other viral infections stimulate your body to make antibodies against the virus which provide some degree of protection from re-infection for some period of time.

Antibodies to the common cold, which is sometimes caused by another type of coronavirus, seem to last only 1-3 years. Antibodies to measles generally last a lifetime.

There have been a few reports of seeming re-infections with COVID-19 in China and South Korea, but this is thought to more likely be due to a testing problem rather than true re-infection.

It’s very likely that people who have had COVID-19 should have some immunity for some period of time, but nobody knows for sure.

Does the severity of COVID-19 illness or the levels of antibody matter for presumed immunity?

When you are infected with a virus, your body makes many different types of antibodies against many different parts of the virus, in differing quantities. The IgG class of antibodies is the one that tends to provide long term immunity. Scientists are currently looking at all of the different antibodies present in the plasma of people who have had COVID-19, to see which antibodies seem to be the most numerous and react most strongly against the virus.

We currently don’t know which antibodies are most protective, how many of the different antibodies you need to have to be protected, or whether the levels of the antibodies matter for either degree or longevity of protection.

What do we need to know about a test before we call it a good test?

After the onset of the pandemic, the FDA allowed institutions and companies produce their own tests, provided they used an FDA-approved procedure to validate the tests. It’s not at all difficult to make an antibody test . . .but it’s very difficult to make a GOOD antibody test. You have to know:
  • Which antibodies to look for
  • How many antibodies to look for
  • What it means if some antibodies are present but not others (what if 2 of 4 tested antibodies are found -does that mean you are immune?)
  • How good your test is at picking up the people who have a positive test and are truly immune (the positive predictive value of the test)
  • If your test correctly tests negative when people have NOT been infected (the negative predictive value)
  • If your test is specific to COVID-19, or if it shows a positive result by detecting antibodies from infection with a different virus that you were exposed to in the last few years (many common colds are caused by other types of coronaviruses).
  • That your test is valid -meaning you have reliably answered the questions above in as many people as possible. Generally this requires hundreds of people known to be positive and negative, as well as some who had other upper respiratory illnesses.
Finally, it is VERY important to remember what we DON’T KNOW:
  • Whether having antibodies and which type of antibodies actually provide immunity
  • If it does, how long the immunity lasts
  • If you have antibodies and have a new virus exposure, whether reinfection can occur
  • If you have antibodies and have a new virus exposure, whether you could still potentially transmit it to non-infected people
If scientists are still studying the antibodies, why are there hundreds of antibody tests already on the market and one being done by a drive-through facility in Chicago?

Many of the tests currently on the market are imported from China or Europe, and some have been made by small US companies who have rushed to produce a test (again, it’s easy to make any test; hard to make a good one).

We have investigated a number of these tests to see how they have been validated and how reliable they are, and the answer is that all of these tests are remarkably poor. (For those who want the scientific details, see below.)

NONE OF THESE TESTS HAVE BEEN VALIDATED OR APPROVED BY ANYONE OTHER THAN THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THEM, AND THEY CAN DO ANY KIND OF TESTING THEY WANT, WHICH IS LARGELY GROSSLY INADEQUATE.

OK, so if what’s available now is terrible, will there be good antibody tests, and when?

YES! There will be good tests, likely in several weeks to a month or so. Abbott has a test they are working to validate, as does Roche. We anticipate that the first tests will be used to test healthcare and other essential workers, and then as production increases and reliability confirmed, extended to test the public.

Just a reminder . . .

Continue to wash your hands well and frequently, especially if you have been out in public.

Continue to stay 6 feet away from anyone if you leave your house.

We recommend wearing a mask if you are out in public. Remember that the mask protects others from you, and does not necessarily protect you from others . . .so the 6-feet distancing remains very important!

The nitty gritty scientific details, for those who may be interested . . .

Many of these tests look for antibodies to the coronavirus ‘spike protein’, the part that attaches the virus to human cells. The spike protein is very similar across all coronavirus species, so the risk for false positives is high in people who have had the common cold in the last few years (which is all of us).

The test currently being offered by a drive-through in Chicago is made by a German company, Euroimmun. A recent paper examining its performance found that its sensitivity (meaning the test both accurately found positive and negatives) was only 67%. Put another way, a full third of people had test results that weren’t accurate. The positive predictive value -meaning if you test positive, the likelihood that you actually had the disease -is only 82% (so 18% of people think they are immune to COVID when they are not), and the negative predictive value is 87%.

Another test that is being marked by Vibrant America for $149, was ‘validated’ in a total of only 20-30 patients, which is far too few to claim reliable test performance. It tests several antibodies, each with a sensitivity of only 65-80%. The company doesn’t say how they interpret a mixed positive/negative result (indeed no one knows how to interpret this right now). Finally, in the small print, the company notes that their test may be positive in people who had common colds in the past.
 
Hubby will be tested. He was terribly ill over New Years. A local urgent care has begun offering the test. $50 copay, if your insurance does not pay their part, you pay the additional $55. Not bad at all

Really makes me wonder if he tests negative what the heck he had because I have never seen someone that ill.
 
I won't be getting the antibody test unless they can verify accuracy of detecting COVID and not some other virus antibodies.

Karl_K said:
btw what do you think of the IL stay at home extension?
I was expecting it and think it will not be the last extension.
Click to expand...
We don't all live in Chicago. Most of the counties have low number of infections and the hospitals are empty. I know medical people where we are are getting laid off, furloughed etc. I wish he would have gone with a regional/county approach (like Missouri seems to be doing) but I'm glad he's loosening up some things. If he's only looking at the worst counties and the worst case projections to plan for the entire state we won't be opening up more anytime soon.

Pritzker seems to have forgotten about the entire western half of the state bordering with Kansas, Missouri and Iowa as he isn't coordinating with any of those governors. I think that is short sighted but in that part of the state they are used to being overlooked.
 
Last edited:
1ofakind said:
I won't be getting the antibody test unless they can verify accuracy of detecting COVID and not some other virus antibodies.


We don't all live in Chicago. Most of the counties have low number of infections and the hospitals are empty. I know medical people where we are are getting laid off, furloughed etc. I wish he would have gone with a regional/county approach (like Missouri seems to be doing) but I'm glad he's loosening up some things. If he's only looking at the worst counties and the worst case projections to plan for the entire state we won't be opening up more anytime soon.

Pritzker seems to have forgotten about the entire western half of the state bordering with Kansas, Missouri and Iowa as he isn't coordinating with any of those governors. I think that is short sighted but in that part of the state they are used to being overlooked.
Click to expand...
Modern hospitals are not set up as a majority critical care anymore.
Large parts of many hospitals are dangerous for this type of medical crisis.
They are geared to the day surgery and injury care because that is where the money has been at.
Critical care isolation rooms and even more so double isolation rooms are in very short supply or full in otherwise almost empty hospitals.
So while yes they are sending people home and have a large number of empty rooms they are not the right type of rooms for ideally caring for a mix of covid and non-covid patients
There is a huge risk in using them for covid because they can not be adequately isolated from other patients and staff.
Empty beds or staff being sent home is not a good measure of the ability of a hospital to care for covid patients safely.
 
I understand that but what I meant was that some hospitals are even empty of COVID patients. As in they have none.
 
I had the antibody test done today. Result will not be available for 48-72 hr (could be longer). The hospital I work for is offering the test to the staff. ? If the test can different antibodies to Coronavirus vs Novel Coronavirus (Covid-19).
 
1ofakind said:
I understand that but what I meant was that some hospitals are even empty of COVID patients. As in they have none.
Click to expand...
yea true.
I think its going to have to be unwound very slowly and very carefully.
It will be far more harmful and deadly to open up then have to try and close down again.
We are learning more and more about it and how to treat it and how to handle it as time goes on.
In a month or even 3 we should know more about how to handle it without igniting a wildfire of infections than we know today as well hopefully to get better out comes for those that are infected.
Its going to be a balancing act and no one knows the right answers yet.
While it may seem like it has been going on for a long time already it is really early days in a long race.
 
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