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Another question about recutting diamond...

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diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
I recently upgraded to a larger, GIA ex/ex diamond. I previously wore a gorgeous GIA certed 1.87 ct VVS1, I colored diamond with med blue flour. I purchased the diamond several years ago from a private party on Ebay for a ridiculously low price. It was certed by GIA in 1979! Obviously it lacks a lot of info. I have a diamond cutter downtown amd I took the diamond to him to see about having it cut to ideal (or close) specs so I can sell it. I''ve used him before to cut an old round mine cut to a 1.27 internally flawlwss princess (had it certed by GIA) so I trust him and know he does good work. The diamond IS gorgeous. When I compare it to my new diamond it is just as beautiful, though it sparkles differently, throws off blue flashes, and seems...deeper...like a pool of crystal clear water.

He told me he wouldnt recut the diamond. He said "it smiled to him" and he saw no reason to recut such a beautiful diamond. Should I seek another opinion or just sell it as is? The specs are as follows:

RB
7.99-7.93X4.81
1.87 cts
Depth 60.5
Table 62
Girdle med
polish very good
symmetry very good
VVS1
Color I
Flour med blue

Thanks
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
If you trust him, why do you doubt him?
 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
Because many people buy a diamond "by the numbers" and, by the numbers, I don't know how attractive this diamond is.
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
Date: 4/11/2007 6:31:02 PM
Author: diamondglee
Because many people buy a diamond 'by the numbers' and, by the numbers, I don't know how attractive this diamond is.
People buying diamonds by the numbers are often doing it sight-unseen, looking for consistently proven parameters. The numbers all become secondary once they have the diamond in-hand. You have the advantage over all of us because you're seeing the diamond. If it's pleasing to you in many lighting conditions and compares well to other high-performing diamonds you've seen in different lighting it could be quite well cut.

The bottom line: If it's a beautiful stone the numbers can't tell you anything more than your eyes.

Technically (from a self-admitted cut-geek) your diamond is what we refer to as a 60/60 (table and depth% both near 60). The 62% table is at the upper limit of what GIA allows into their top cut grade. The depth and girdle are fine, though GIA may have changed the way they assess girdles since 1979. I would imagine the stone appears large or 'spready' given its table size - and may be balanced more towards white light/brightness than colored light/fire (a greater balance of fire is typically associated with high crowns, often coupled with smaller tables). This is speculation of course.

If you really want to 'tech-out'
and get the numbers you'll need to find out crown and pavilion angles. A capable GG can estimate pavilion depth and pavilion angle using the table reflection. That would help fill in a few blanks but for a decisive assessment you'd need to run it (unmounted) through a Sarin, Ogi or Helium scanner.
 

boston_jeff

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
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623
Date: 4/11/2007 6:15:46 PM
Author:diamondglee
I''ve used him before to cut an old round mine cut to a 1.27 internally flawlwss princess (had it certed by GIA) so I trust him and know he does good work.

To be entirely honest, I am already a little sad that you had an OMC recut into a princess
...

To answer your question, though, my guess is if the stone is pretty and pretty well cut (sounds like it is), after the cost to recut it and the loss of weight you will not end up with any more money when you resell it.
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
10,589
I think what is important is what you like. That being said, I''d take a few weeks and look at your stone some more before taking it to another cutter.
 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
Thanks for the input, I''m taking it all into consideration.

The cutter only charges me $250. I think with ideal, or near specs this diamond would sell for more. Even with the cost of having it recertified with GIA I think the additional info that wasnt provided in 1979 would make up for the additional $550 or so I would spend.

Having said that...the stone is beautiful as is and sparkles like mad so....I am going to think on it for a bit, then get a second opinion about recutting as well as the net effect on the price.

In terms of recutting a mine cut to a princess...I never would have if it were an OEC, but it was a pretty hideous mine cut...didnt have the charm of some I''ve seen. And the princess cut was exactly what I wanted for the setting I choose. I never could have touched it for the $1800 I paid for the mine cut stone.

Thanks.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Hi diamondglee,

Is there a reason you need to sell it? If you need the money, I understand, but if not, why not keep it and have it made into a lovely right hand ring? You seem to like it... Just a thought.


If you need to sell it, I think I would at least try selling it AS IS first, it couldn''t hurt.
 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
Hi Ellen,

I guess need is a relative term. I "should" sell it. I don''t wear RHR''s...in act, aside from my collection of engagement and engagement style rings, I don''t wear any jewelry and it is FAR too beautiful to sit in my jewelry box as it has been for the past several months.

But you are right...I love it so much that I even go back and forth between keeping it and getting rid of my upgrade. The upgrade is bigger and better cut...but there is something so beautiful about the smaller diamond...something the other doesnt have....

I guess this isnt an all together bad dilema to have!

I should post a pic of it nect to thr upgrade and let you guys decide.
 

mosher

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17

You love the stone, he likes the stone why don''t you do a deal with him. It seems like you are on the same page?


By the way it is more important what you think of the stone than the numbers.

 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
He''s a diamond cutter in the diamond district in LA, I''m sure I wouldn''t get half of what I could get for it on craigslist or ebay.
 

He Scores

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
230
Date: 4/11/2007 6:15:46 PM
Author:diamondglee
I recently upgraded to a larger, GIA ex/ex diamond. I previously wore a gorgeous GIA certed 1.87 ct VVS1, I colored diamond with med blue flour. I purchased the diamond several years ago from a private party on Ebay for a ridiculously low price. It was certed by GIA in 1979! Obviously it lacks a lot of info. I have a diamond cutter downtown amd I took the diamond to him to see about having it cut to ideal (or close) specs so I can sell it. I''ve used him before to cut an old round mine cut to a 1.27 internally flawlwss princess (had it certed by GIA) so I trust him and know he does good work. The diamond IS gorgeous. When I compare it to my new diamond it is just as beautiful, though it sparkles differently, throws off blue flashes, and seems...deeper...like a pool of crystal clear water.

He told me he wouldnt recut the diamond. He said ''it smiled to him'' and he saw no reason to recut such a beautiful diamond. Should I seek another opinion or just sell it as is? The specs are as follows:

RB
7.99-7.93X4.81
1.87 cts
Depth 60.5
Table 62
Girdle med
polish very good
symmetry very good
VVS1
Color I
Flour med blue

Thanks
In my mind''s eye a stone like this is usually a little heavy on the bottom and slightly shallow crown angles on top. Nothing is noted about the girdle thickness but I don''t see any evidence that it would be extreme.

A stone of this type is what I would call a nice production make. The larger table indicates that it is probably from a sawn piece of rough and this would indicate the shallower crown. The 60% d/s ratio is then made up with an heavier bottom.

To go to top top ideal one would probably lose some diameter to build the crown back up and about half the weigh loss would be to correct the "over angled" pavillion.

You have the weight to lose without going under the 1.50 ct.

You probably don''t want to take an I color to ideal and leave the crown sl. shallow but just reduce the table size somewhat....leave a natural girdle to help offset the lower color and with an on angle bottom and you could make a difference in how the stone lookes.

Of course, this is complete speculation without actually seeing the stone. Consult an expert. Past performance is no guarantee of future expectations. I reserve the right to be wrong. It happened once.



Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,929
Date: 4/13/2007 4:55:19 PM
Author: He Scores

Date: 4/11/2007 6:15:46 PM
Author:diamondglee
I recently upgraded to a larger, GIA ex/ex diamond. I previously wore a gorgeous GIA certed 1.87 ct VVS1, I colored diamond with med blue flour. I purchased the diamond several years ago from a private party on Ebay for a ridiculously low price. It was certed by GIA in 1979! Obviously it lacks a lot of info. I have a diamond cutter downtown amd I took the diamond to him to see about having it cut to ideal (or close) specs so I can sell it. I''ve used him before to cut an old round mine cut to a 1.27 internally flawlwss princess (had it certed by GIA) so I trust him and know he does good work. The diamond IS gorgeous. When I compare it to my new diamond it is just as beautiful, though it sparkles differently, throws off blue flashes, and seems...deeper...like a pool of crystal clear water.

He told me he wouldnt recut the diamond. He said ''it smiled to him'' and he saw no reason to recut such a beautiful diamond. Should I seek another opinion or just sell it as is? The specs are as follows:

RB
7.99-7.93X4.81
1.87 cts
Depth 60.5
Table 62
Girdle med
polish very good
symmetry very good
VVS1
Color I
Flour med blue

Thanks
In my mind''s eye a stone like this is usually a little heavy on the bottom and slightly shallow crown angles on top. Nothing is noted about the girdle thickness but I don''t see any evidence that it would be extreme.

A stone of this type is what I would call a nice production make. The larger table indicates that it is probably from a sawn piece of rough and this would indicate the shallower crown. The 60% d/s ratio is then made up with an heavier bottom.

To go to top top ideal one would probably lose some diameter to build the crown back up and about half the weigh loss would be to correct the ''over angled'' pavillion.

You have the weight to lose without going under the 1.50 ct.

You probably don''t want to take an I color to ideal and leave the crown sl. shallow but just reduce the table size somewhat....leave a natural girdle to help offset the lower color and with an on angle bottom and you could make a difference in how the stone lookes.

Of course, this is complete speculation without actually seeing the stone. Consult an expert. Past performance is no guarantee of future expectations. I reserve the right to be wrong. It happened once.



Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter
Only once? Waw you are a prety "lucky" cutter....
 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
Thank you Mr. Bray, yes the diamond is a little heavy on the bottom. Is that why it throws off the beautiful blue flashes? The cutter told me the same regarding the girdle and color. Luckily, the blue flor helps the color quite a bit.

An ideal, or near ideal diamond of 1.50 ct sounds nice. I wonder if it would really make a difference in the price I could get for it?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,174
As Bill says, your stone must have a shallow crown, and a slightly deep pavilion. It is probably going to get GIA Excellent or Very Good as it is.
The yellow line indicates about how much needs to ground off to get to a smaller table and a slightly steeper crown angle.

If you looked at it with an ideal-scope you might see a pretty good result as shown.

I doubt any honest cutter would advise you any differently.

Leave it alone - it is probably brighter than most stones of its size - clean it and take it to a few stores and compar it - you will probably be surprised.

do not recut.JPG
 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
Thank you Gary, that helps me visualize what I might end up with if I had the stone recut.

Ive decided to re-submit the diamond to GIA. I think the additional cut info will help me decide what I want to do. It will also help me sell it, if that''s what I decide. I''m also curious to see if their grading has changed uch since 1979. I realize that if I do get it recut I will have to sub,it it again, but for what I paid for the stone I will still come out miles ahead.

I''ll post back with the updated specs from GIA.
 

surfgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
4,438
It looks lovely and like Boston Jeff, I''m a bit sad when I hear of lovely old cuts being re-cut since there are plenty of new stones out there already. That said, why dont you consult someone who specializes in dealing with old cuts. If the stone is as nice as it looks and as experts have already said it is, you will probably get a good price leaving it as is, provided you''re dealing with someone who appreciates the old cuts.
 

poptart

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
1,899
Date: 4/15/2007 4:35:07 PM
Author: surfgirl
It looks lovely and like Boston Jeff, I'm a bit sad when I hear of lovely old cuts being re-cut since there are plenty of new stones out there already. That said, why dont you consult someone who specializes in dealing with old cuts. If the stone is as nice as it looks and as experts have already said it is, you will probably get a good price leaving it as is, provided you're dealing with someone who appreciates the old cuts.
I completely agree with Surfgirl and Boston Jeff. Please look around and find a dealer who will buy it from you as is. It's a lovely RB, and if it is as beautiful as you say, and it looks that way, someone will be more than happy to take it off of your hands.

*M*

Edited for clarification
 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
The diamond above isnt the omc I had recut. The one above is just a RB with a med culet, but the faceting is modern.
 

poptart

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
1,899
Ok, I get it. It kind of looks like an OEC though, so I really thought it was. It is very pretty, so I would definitely look around and see what price you can get for it. It seems like you really like it though. Could you set it in a pendant maybe?

*M*
 

diamondglee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
62
I thought about making a pendant out of it...but I don''t wear any other jewelry besides e-ring style rings and I just think this diamond should be worn and enjoyed by someone.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,617
It certainly is beautiful. I''d sell it "as is" in that gorgeous setting! I see no need to recut it.
 
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