Another newbie who needs help!

[EVS]

Hi there!

My fella and I are in the process of picking out an engagement ring/wedding band set for me. We have some ideas, and don't know how to go about turning our vision into reality. We are complete newbies to this scene.

We are imagining a large center stone (I'm thinking 10-12mm diameter, maybe?) in the dark grey to black spectrum, in probably a cushion cut. I think I'd like if it weren't completely opaque. Is black spinel our best bet for that? Would that be hardy enough for everyday wear?

I would also like a very very narrow band, maybe as narrow as 1.5mm, with pave around the shank (or at least half way around). And a little matching pave band, just as narrow. Not sure about the metal; something like white gold/platinum. I'd like a halo, but I'm not sure if that would take us out of our budget range.

Our budget isn't that huge. We'd like to be able to pull this off for a couple grand. Does that sound possible? Where do we start? Thanks in advance for any advice/guidance!

 

[EVS]

Also, we live in Tucson and are absolutely kicking ourselves for not tackling this while the gem show that just ended was in town!

 

[chloeishere]

Welcome to pricescope!

Black spinel is completely opaque, so if you want a non-opaque stone, it is not the way to go. It does get a lovely shine, like black diamonds. Spinel is generally considered durable enough for everyday wear, but of course you should never wear fine jewelry 24/7-- it's best to take it off for cleaning and heavy work, gardening, working out, sleeping, etc. Otherwise, it is very likely your stone will be damaged.

You could get a grey spinel, which can be transparent-- I think there are several grey spinel rings around here (try searching for grey spinel/ gray spinel in the search bar), if you'd like to get an idea of how they will look.

Here's a poorly cut ebay gray spinel that I would not recommend (I saw this same picture on three different auctions, bad sign, and I'm not a fan of the stone anyway-- but just for an example): http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-60-CT-NAT...146?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56455b1392
Here's another poorly cut ebay stone. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-gr...307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab4847c1b
Better cut (possibly photoshopped, though), wrong size and shape. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PREMIUM-ROU...700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e8f34d3c

You might be able to do a sapphire, but I haven't seen as many pure grey or any dark grey ones. It also has a lower refractive index than spinel, so it won't be as sparkly... but it is more durable (9 for sapphire vs. 8 for spinel on Moh's hardness scale). This, again, is just an example, not necessarily one I would recommend. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-67-Carat-...8518?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item3cbf21c296

Spinel can have quite a lot of dispersion if cut well, and I think a gray stone could be lovely.

For the size and color you want, I would suspect you will need to contact a lapidary and have it custom cut for you-- due to the size and the unusual color desire. On the plus side, it is not an "ideal" color, so it probably will not be inordinately expensive for the stone. Hooray! I know for black spinel, bespoke gems (Doug Menadue) has been used several times recently, with great feedback. You could try contacting him about the grey stones and see what he says-- but there are many highly recommended lapidaries around here, and all (that I know of) are very nice! Contact without fear! (There is a vendor list stickied to the top of this forum, a great place to start).

So far as the setting, I've heard different things about what width is "good enough" for durability. I went with a 2 mm band because the general consensus is that 2mm is narrow enough to look narrow, but not so narrow that it will easily damage (I also don't have pave, though). That said, I think if you go to a reliable, high quality jewelry maker, they should be able to make a band that narrow that will not be especially fragile (but they will need to do it by making the band thicker, rather than wider, just FYI-- you need a certain amount of metal for durability). Two of the big names I hear around here for pave work are Victor Canera and Leon Mege. I generally believe I've heard better things about Victor, and that's who I would contact first for a setting, but there's lots of people very happy with Leon, as well. Both are also acclaimed for their halo settings, so you could ask them for a quote with and without a halo, when you get to that step. (A pricescope search on either of their names will probably bring up lots of information on either one, with pretty pictures)!

Since the stone will probably not be too expensive, you can probably manage a high quality vendor for the setting, and still stay in budget.

I hope that helps!

 

[EVS]

Wow, thank you for that wonderful and detailed response! Sorry it took me so long to reply. I thought I had topic reply notification on, but apparently not!

I think grey spinel is probably exactly what we're looking for. The color on the ebay ones you linked to is what I want--not a hint of any other color, no blue/purple/green/etc, just pure grey. It looks like it's going to be quite difficult to find a well-cut one in that color as well as in the size and shape I'm looking for. This is the closest thing I can find, and it's too small, wrong cut (I want square cushion), and possibly too greenish (although on my screen it looks fine to me): http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-86-CTS-NATURAL-GREENISH-GRAY-SPINEL-CEYLON-/150530198303
I'll definitely contact Doug and check out the other vendors on the list, too. Thanks!

Grey sapphire is another good idea, but I just looked around a little bit and you're right that there don't seem to be any dark grey ones. Plus the grey ones at all are more expensive than grey spinel. Increased hardness is appealing, though. I also found some very expensive grey diamonds. Like whoa expensive, and tiny.

That's good to know about the thickness. Does choice of metal make a difference? I have a family heirloom diamond ring (my great-grandmother's e-ring) that is in platinum and is extremely narrow and thin. I haven't measured it, but I think it could be as little as 1mm wide and tall at the thinnest point, it's that thin. I wear it 24/7 as a RHR and it's SO comfortable. I also love the delicate look of it. Victor Canera seems like a great candidate; looks like people love the quality of his work and say his prices are reasonable too. Also perhaps Steven Kirsch? My fella doesn't like halos, which is good on one hand because it would probably help keep costs down, but I also wonder if a halo would protect the stone, since spinel is a little more delicate than say a diamond?

 

[GemFever]

Here's one on ebay:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/76819747/spinel-top-red-mellee-3-pc-round-015-cts

I haven't bought from this store so I can't recommend it, and that stone will have a window (maybe a close-able one). But it is on the bigger side. One suggestion -- I noticed that grey spinels are often described as "titianium," try that as a search term. A "titanium purple" might have a tiny hint of purple but face up really grey. I have one like that, and it looks like quite a steely grey color, pretty cool.

Good luck in your search!

- Anya

 

[GemFever]

Oh, check this out! (but again, never bought from this store, so can't say for sure how true to life their pics are)

http://www.etsy.com/listing/93311804/extremely-beautiful-sparkling-natural?ref=sr_gallery_1&sref=&ga_search_submit=&ga_search_query=titanium+spinel&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_ship_to=US&ga_search_type=all&ga_facet=

 

[EVS]

Thanks, Anya! I showed that second one to my guy, and now it's sold. Hmmm...

Here's another question: is it crazy to have the mounting be way more expensive than the stone itself? I'm supposing it doesn't matter as long as I am in love with the stone..

 

[GemFever]

If you get the stone for a bargain, I think it makes perfect sense to have the mounting be more expensive

The second stone I linked will have a window, I should have said that right away. But I think it will be pretty dark, so the window won't be as apparent. If your guy got that one, please take extra care to pick a setting that will help you to "close" the window. For that, you need metal under the stone (no direct line of sight from your eye, through the stone, onto your finger!). I even read somewhere that you could put a small diamond into the setting under the cutlet of your stone... but I've never seen this. Sounds a little crazy, but after my own window experience recently, I'm thinking it might not be crazy-talk after all!

Good luck and keep us updated!

- Anya

 

[chloeishere]

I agree with GemFever-- it will probably have a window, though it doesn't look like a super huge one to me (this thread has posts on closing windows with the setting: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/window-shutters.172386/ and be sure to check out GemFever's chrysoberyl thread, too-- that is an incredible example! https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/chrysoberyl-set-by-danielm.172372/).

That said, if the vendor picture is accurate, it looks exactly like what you are looking for! Yay! Let us know if you do get it!


ETA: My setting was about 2.5 times more than the stone. It was a great priced stone, I don't think it's that unusual-- if the stone is exactly what you want, that's what counts... not the price tag).

 

[EVS]

Ah, thank you for the info on the window.

What do you guys think of this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-44-ct-SUPERIOR-CLEAN-100-NATURAL-TOP-TITANIUM-SPINEL-BIG-AAA-NR-/110834000477

 

[chloeishere]

Looking at the back of the stone, I would suspect another window. It is dark enough that it may not be very visible, though, especially if set correctly. My other concern is that it states internally flawless (IF) which could indicate that it might be synthetic, and not worth hardly anything. (I did see a few "stone fake" complaints in the negative and neutral feedback for that seller, as well.)

One of the reasons I recommended a precision cutter for this project is that the stone will be beautifully cut and therefore probably more spectacular in person (with higher dispersion/ rainbows). The material should be fairly inexpensive-- you do pay a premium for having it precision cut, but it still probably wouldn't be very expensive (I honestly can't say for sure because I have no idea, but I'd expect between $200-500, for the stone, depending on who cuts it-- you could ask for an approximate cost before giving the go-ahead, if you are concerned that it will be too costly).

If you are nervous or intimidated by the big list of precision cutters (here are some that I believe are very reasonable in price):
Dan Stair, customgemstones.com
Doug Menadue, bespoke-gems.com
Barry Bridgestock, acstones.com (Does Barry do custom work? I'm not sure).
Dana Reynolds, mastercutgems.com

You could stick with ebay, but I really think you will be much happier with the results with a precision cut stone. Just my opinion.

 

[EVS]

Update:

Well, my guy did buy the etsy stone. And it came, and it's not going to work. The cut is all wrong, it has no fire, I don't like the shape, and it's not big enough to recut (for our purposes anyway). It was so sparkly in the picture, but really dead in person. I'm fairly certain it's not worth anything close to what it cost. An expensive learning experience!

Funny side story: I also bought a few cheapie faux jewels for samples of sizes and cuts that I could hold in my hands to see if I really want what I think I want, and gave them to my 7-year-old daughter for her to play around with. She is now OBSESSED with gems and spends all her computer time looking at gems on eBay.

Anyway, we're definitely going to stick with precision cutters from here on out! No more Etsy or eBay. I've been cruising precision cutter sites and found a few gems that are potential candidates, but I'm a lot more cautious now and less trigger-happy, that's for sure. I emailed Doug, but he didn't think he could help me find what I was looking for. I may contact him again though, because my specifications have really evolved.

I've gotten a lot more flexible in what I want in many ways, but less flexible in others. From now on, I will not accept a stone that isn't masterfully cut, and I also know I want one that is symmetrical in two dimensions--some variation of square or round (not oval or rectangular), preferably a square cushion or, my new favorite, asscher. But I'm less intent on it being a colorless dark grey; I still want it to be mostly greyish, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for it to be slightly dusty pinkish or peachy, and I actually think I want it to be on the lighter-to-medium end of the spectrum overall. The stone we bought is just so dark grey, I think I realized that it's just too dark to be as sparkly as I want it to be. I'm also less intent on it being so huge, especially if it's squarish in shape. I think my new ideal range is actually more like 7-9mm. I've realized the larger diameters might be too tall for my liking, because I'd like a pretty low profile, plus there's just a lot more available in that range. Do you think a 7 or 8mm stone will still be big enough to look big on my size 6.5 finger?

I've taken a liking to some of the Malaya garnets (the ones on the more greyish peachy side), but I was wondering if you guys think they're hard enough for an e-ring? Maybe with a halo to protect it?

I have basically two stones I'm looking at right now, but I'm afraid to post links lest anyone else snatches them up before I've made up my mind. Is that an unfounded fear?

 

[minousbijoux]

I have basically two stones I'm looking at right now, but I'm afraid to post links lest anyone else snatches them up before I've made up my mind. Is that an unfounded fear?

If past history on this site is any indication, that is a real fear and you are wise not to divulge much until you have the stones at least reserved. Once they are, you can come and share them if you want feedback.

Good luck!

 

[EVS]

I have basically two stones I'm looking at right now, but I'm afraid to post links lest anyone else snatches them up before I've made up my mind. Is that an unfounded fear?

If past history on this site is any indication, that is a real fear and you are wise not to divulge much until you have the stones at least reserved. Once they are, you can come and share them if you want feedback.

Good luck!

Thanks! What about borrowing the vendor's pictures but not saying where they're from? Do people around here ever do that?

 

[NKOTB]

They do, but most of us know vendor pics really well, so I imagine the lurkers do, too. So, I would also suggest putting them on hold before posting.

I'm having a hard time picturing greyish peachy, as usually pinks/peaches tend towards brown as a modifier vs. grey. Asscher spinels and garnets, especially in that size range, seem to be few and far between. If you don't reserve the two you are eyeing and post them, could you post a few pictures of stones in the colour range you are now thinking of, to give us (or at least me) a better sense?

And welcome to PS!